Sounds to me like Stoops has no idea when Flannigan will return and is hoping the injury is not worse than originally diagnosed.
Eli Brown to burn RS?
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Sounds to me like Stoops has no idea when Flannigan will return and is hoping the injury is not worse than originally diagnosed.
i hope that we aren't burning allen and browns rs for the first 2 to 4 games and then everyone is back healthy and they only play special teams the rest of the year. it would help with experience for next year though. i figured we'd be more "talented" at lber in '16 but dangerously inexperienced. this may be a blessing in disquise.... glass half full people.
I would hope that they are preparing Brown and Allen to play in the even they HAVE TO play the first two games and don't play them but it would be difficult to do if Henderson and Ware were the only other healthy bodies at these two spots. Hopefully we should be back to or close to full strength by the third game which would move them back down the chart as you suggest without burning their shirt.
Assuming he is around 210-215 he's pretty light for an OLB in the SEC, but its not unheard of, Lorenzo Carter played pretty well at 220 at 6'6"+. So if he is a good athlete he can contribute and likely to be an asset in the pass defense either rushing or in space covering.
What I meant to ask in a previous post, and deleted it by mistake was what the likelihood of Josh Forrest, or possibly Flanigan, filling in for Hatcher at one of the outside linebacker spots for the first two games is?
The way I read the lineup, the four players available for the first two games are Jabari Johnson, Josh Allen, Denzil Ware, and Kengara Daniel. One is a fifth-year senior, with very little playing time over his career on teams that were “defensively challenged” to say the least, and three freshmen, two of which are right out of HS. That is a scary, scary situation. If those kids are the ones we are counting on to set the edge and to mount most of our pass rush, I fear South Carolina will score one heck of a lot of points.
I disagree with this, every freshman should not redshirt, they are eligible to leave after 3 years, many do just that. Redshirting him means you have him for 2 years if he leaves early, you spent that much time recruiting him. Redshirts are for kids who are not ready to contribute as true frosh, always has been. If a kid is good enough to play and help you win as a frosh it makes zero sense to redshirt him. Just in the SEC, look at all the kids who wouldn't have played in 14, all the frosh RBs, Bama started a true frosh at LT, frosh LB's and secondary kids making plays every Saturday.
They are getting as many looks as everyone else, but they have been beaten out in practice by true freshmen. It doesn't matter that some website calls Brown a 4 star. He is still at least 20 pounds too light for SEC play, but he is the best we have right now if Flannigan, Love, and Jones can't play. Jones himself would have redshirted if Love was available.
The point you are making is valid in Athens. Hopefully it may soon be valid in Lexington too, but not yet. You can count on 1 hand the number of Kentucky football players who have left for the NFL after 3 years. Tim Couch, Dennis Johnson, Dewayne Robertson, Randall Cobb, don't think I'm forgetting anyone there. Stoops got here in 2013. We are still at a developmental stage where we ought to be redshirting every true freshman we can. King, Westry, GAA more or less have to play because of numbers or talent at their positions. Jones and Brown are falling into that category because of injuries and Love's ineligibility. But at this stage, the more freshmen we redshirt, the better.
This is the theory the coaches are using for Elam. Not that he will necessarily leave after 3 years, but he is too good to be around for 5.
The key to that is every true freshman we can, if that true freshman can help you win games I believe you have to play him, regardless of which school he is attending. How would you feel about redshirting if Boom had Redshirted last year and leaves after the 16 season? It would mean the most dynamic playmaker would have played 2 seasons. Richt redshirted Knowshon, because we had 3 upper classmen backs, he played 2 seasons for us. Now he hasn't done much in the NFL but he was a heck of a college back. Richt said he learned his lesson, he would never redshirt another kid who could help win a game regardless of who was ahead of him. Those other 3 backs all had NFL careers too, short ones but they made it there and played.
It isn't that simple, and you can't compare our current situation to those being managed at top 5 programs by Meyer and Saban. Every year, a handful of true freshmen will play because they fill positional needs. Sihiem King will play because the coaches know they need 4 running backs ready to play. But there is more to consider. In the SEC, improvement is a multi year process. It isn't just whether a freshman can help in 2015. There are 2 larger questions. Could he help us MORE in 2019, as a more developed athlete? Would it be better for the player's future and for his personal development to spend 5 years on campus? Experienced coaches, for the most part, are looking at these factors. Meyer and Saban don't have to, but we are still in the early stages of our climb to that level.
I disagree, and I have already explained my reasons to you. Georgia and Kentucky are not currently in the same position, although we definitely intend to get there under Stoops. Until we do, program development and improvement are our primary goals. Even if we get back to the Music City Bowl this year, Stoops is planning and developing for the future. The Music City Bowl is not our idea of the ultimate achievement. That means, we need better players AND more experienced players. Richt is playing for a national championship RIGHT NOW. That difference means a lot in how players are used. Your question about Boom is 1 of the most common bad reasons speculated for taking off a good young player's redshirt. Only 4 Kentucky players in the modern history of our program have ever left Lexington for the NFL after 3 years in our program. It is much more likely that the 5th year will help most of our players. Stoops is recruiting better than Brooks or Joker did, so we may get to a point in the future when that calculus might change. We aren't there yet.
Of course you leave out the biggest question, will the player even be here in 2019 or will he declare for the NFL with a year (or two) of eligibility remaining. Brown has that potential to play on Sundays, and if the coaches didnt think he could contribute now they would RS him.
You must not read very well. I addressed that. Every player has the potential to play on Sundays. For heavens sake, John Connor is playing on Sundays. But Kentucky football players benefiting from 5 years is about 1000 times more common than Kentucky players leaving early for the NFL. You don't manage redshirting decisions on that. You manage them on what's best for the player and the program. And 8 or 9 times out of 10, that is a redshirt. There are exceptions, but not because they might leave for the NFL.
But more players have left after 4 years with no RS...Woodyard, Dupree, Williamson, Trevathan etc...if these guys would've RS'd, you likely get 3 years on the field with them instead of 4. RS as freshman and you likely never see them in their 5th years here. Same with Boom, Elam and others.
Uh - players have to leave after their eligibility is used up. I think your conclusion is wrong. You don't think the players you named would have played at Kentucky as 5th year seniors? In all those cases, I think they would have contributed quite a lot more as 5th year seniors than they contributed as true freshmen. If you are saying they would have left for the NFL after year 4, that might or might not have happened in Dupree's case, possibly Trevathan. Clearly would not have happened with any others. But I do not believe for a moment that Rich Brooks knew in 2008 that Danny Trevathan would become an NFL draft choice.
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It's a gamble and you can get burned either way. Ftr Williamson was drafted earlier in his draft than Trevathan and was also an immediate contributor in the league. He wanted another year with Stoops so he may have returned for a 5th yr but most guys aren't the character that he is and would elect to enter the draft.
What you are saying seems backwards to me. Everyone says UGA has won because of talent the last few years, we are one of the top NFL producers right now, so you would have to think we are a talented group. But we still play lots of true frosh every year, we will have several start this year, maybe as many as 6 by midseason. UK has struggled recently, but I dont' think anyone will dispute UK is upgrading their talent level by quite a bit. I believe that. But if they are more talented than upperclassmen who have struggled at the SEC level the last 3-5 years, why not play them. Do you not think the incoming class is more talented than the senior class who has played 4 years of struggling football? Do you not think any of the kids Stoops is bringing in have potential NFL ability and with that the potential to leave a year early? Saying UK has only had 4-5 kids leave early in the past is comparing apples to oranges. UK isn't recruiting the same athlete they were in the past, at least I don't think they are. With a good year, Towles will check to see what his worth is, my guess quite a bit more than Dak's will be. Its almost like I am saying UK is bringing in frosh who are good enough to get UK to where it wants to be and you are disagreeing with me, that they aren't good enough to help UK as frosh.[/QUOTE]
Love doesn't play that position. Flannigan should be back to full strength any time and BTW, the returning starter at that position (Henderson) is healthy and practicing.
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Good points grumpy. We have to rs kids who are not gonna contribute but kids like boom, westry, elam, conrad, GAA. ... are not coming to UK to sit for a year. They see an opportunity for playing time and that is a factor in us even getting them. A kid like westry at corner probably wins us that Florida game last year. We gave up a couple easy td's with the receiver just going up over our dB and snatching the ball. If these guys get us 2 more wins then you burn that rs in a blue flame.
Hey may be too light, but maybe not...Wesley Woodyard was 1st team all SEC freshman team at 196lbs...he then was 1st team all sec as a 212lb senior. Speed can be used to offset weight disadvantages.
Good points grumpy. We have to rs kids who are not gonna contribute but kids like boom, westry, elam, conrad, GAA. ... are not coming to UK to sit for a year. They see an opportunity for playing time and that is a factor in us even getting them. A kid like westry at corner probably wins us that Florida game last year. We gave up a couple easy td's with the receiver just going up over our dB and snatching the ball. If these guys get us 2 more wins then you burn that rs in a blue flame.[/QUOTE]
That's what I been saying, every kid signed isn't going to contribute as a frosh, not just at UK but everywhere, but many are, and those guys need to play, or risk getting 2 years. That's especially true at rb, wr, db.
That's what I been saying, every kid signed isn't going to contribute as a frosh, not just at UK but everywhere, but many are, and those guys need to play, or risk getting 2 years. That's especially true at rb, wr, db.
Elam is a good example of playing a kid as a true freshman. He didn't play a lot of snaps, and wasn't involved in a lot plays when he did play. However, it gave him a taste of what he was going to have to do to play in the SEC, namely get in better shape. I totally agreed with Stoops not redshirting him. He isn't going to be at UK five years as long as he stays healthy, and redshirting him last year would have been a detriment to his development, not beneficial to it. Stoops is going to play freshmen if they can contribute to a win.
You're basing this on our past, where we haven't had many players leave after three years. That is true.
Our past recruiting never saw the level of recruits we are currently bringing into the program. Our coach will handle these players in the proper way.
Lots of good opinions on this, I'll just say that a program like Kentucky is only gonna have a prayer of competing for SEC championships if we are full of as many 5th year seniors as possible. Which is pretty much what Miss St did last year. Injuries have been incredibly unlucky to hit just one position on one side of the ball. But I hope Brown & Allen do not play this season no matter what.
Honestly them playing linebacker would not make that big of a difference in a defense that is going to be our weak link, and neither would improve us beyond being at best 6 or 7 win team. Too many other question marks in having to replace 2 NFL draft picks at DE, and true freshmen playing corner. But....3 years down the road, 4 years, when Brown & Allen are RS jrs & RS srs?
Honestly them playing linebacker would not make that big of a difference in a defense that is going to be our weak link, and neither would improve us beyond being at best 6 or 7 win team. Too many other question marks in having to replace 2 NFL draft picks at DE, and true freshmen playing corner. But....3 years down the road, 4 years, when Brown & Allen are RS jrs & RS srs?
Sure. I should have worded it former or previous starter Henderson with 15 starts in the last two years to be more accurate. That doesn't diminish the point in any way. In fact, it validates it.
Are you prepared to declare Flannigan out for the first game or two? I'm not. I expect him back no later than the end of next week but that remains to be seen.
But more to the point, is the discussion about SEC level play or is it about having adequate depth to refrain from burning a red shirt? Add to that your arbitrary judgement of who is and who is not playing SEC level, whatever that is. Are only players that meet the level of SEC play as judged by Caveman allowed to set foot on the turf at Commonwealth? Seems a bit presumptuous IMHO.
You can get defensive and talk about "arbitrary" judgments all day and every day. I realize, in your humble opinion, that your judgments are not arbitrary, but when you humbly address others ...
Look, name the SEC schools where Henderson starts at LBer. Don't just claim me wrong. Prove it.
Thanks.
Our fans are hospitable toward your point of view, but most of us recognize Georgia's program and Kentucky's program are at different places on the program management curve. What you are saying is a Georgia perspective. Program building and management of an annually ranked program are 2 different things. We intend to get there, but we aren't there yet. Every year, a handful of freshmen will fill critical needs, like Westry and King this year. But it makes sense for us, right now, to redshirt every freshman we can. That is program building. I understand why you can't see my point of view, but to tell you the truth it doesn't matter.
Flannigan is an important player for us. I hope Flannigan recovers and plays, at least by the South Carolina trip. He is no longer wearing a sling, but shoulders are tricky injuries. We need him back. It would be fantastic if Courtney Love is given a waiver and allowed to play this year. That might solve some of these other issues.
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