duke completely surpasses iu as a program

[hotelblue]

not just captain obvious here. if you are older than say 30 or 35 this has to be a shock when you actually stop and think about it. especially in a regional sense. credit to duke of course. but just go back to 1990 and iu leads 5 > 0 in titles, final fours, and all that. now seriously, that is a surprising turn. and credit to those bastards again, a good marker for duke as a blue blood.

uk, being great in every era, churned out 8 final fours and 3 titles since then, with opportunities for more.

in my fandom though iu/duke is the biggest switch i've seen of the blue bloods. lets not forget that rat face beat one of bobby knight's last great teams in the ff. but an up-and-coming program in the late 80's completely surpassing a program like indiana in about 23 years is pretty crazy. for those that want to gag feel free.

 

[Smashcat]

not just captain obvious here. if you are older than say 30 or 35 this has to be a shock when you actually stop and think about it. especially in a regional sense. credit to duke of course. but just go back to 1990 and iu leads 5 > 0 in titles, final fours, and all that. now seriously, that is a surprising turn. and credit to those bastards again, a good marker for duke as a blue blood.

uk, being great in every era, churned out 8 final fours and 3 titles since then, with opportunities for more.

in my fandom though iu/duke is the biggest switch i've seen of the blue bloods. lets not forget that rat face beat one of bobby knight's last great teams in the ff. but an up-and-coming program in the late 80's completely surpassing a program like indiana in about 23 years is pretty crazy. for those that want to gag feel free.

Butler has surpassed IU as a program.

 

[ThroughBlue]

UConn as well

 

[TruBluCatFan]

Might be a shorter thread to list schools that haven't passed Happy Clappy's Hoosiers as a program.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Indiana is quickly turning into the USF of the "modern" era. A school steeped in history and success but long forgotten as a power program.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Funny you use Duke as the program in this example, for sure they have.

What's more damning to IU is these following programs have surpassed them during the same time-frame:

Michigan State
UL
UCONN
Kansas
Syracuse
Florida

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Syracuse has one national championship, kind of hard to say they have surpassed IU as a program.

 

[KA4Prez]

Syracuse and Florida...just no. Solid, but no.

 

[O C-A-T-S 06]

Funny you use Duke as the program in this example, for sure they have.

What's more damning to IU is these following programs have surpassed them during the same time-frame:

Michigan State
UL
UCONN
Kansas
Syracuse
Florida

Need a review of your college basketball history if 2 time championship winner UL and UF are better than Indiana. Knight, as much as I hate him, made them a blue blood while clappy, Sampson, etc have ran them into the ground. Still a few levels above the cards and gators.

 

[wildcat8084]

not just captain obvious here. if you are older than say 30 or 35 this has to be a shock when you actually stop and think about it. especially in a regional sense. credit to duke of course. but just go back to 1990 and iu leads 5 > 0 in titles, final fours, and all that. now seriously, that is a surprising turn. and credit to those bastards again, a good marker for duke as a blue blood.

uk, being great in every era, churned out 8 final fours and 3 titles since then, with opportunities for more.

in my fandom though iu/duke is the biggest switch i've seen of the blue bloods. lets not forget that rat face beat one of bobby knight's last great teams in the ff. but an up-and-coming program in the late 80's completely surpassing a program like indiana in about 23 years is pretty crazy. for those that want to gag feel free.

Coach K certainly surpassed his teacher

 

[wcc31]

Hell, you could argue pretty convincingly Louisville has passed Indiana.

Duke has also passed Kansas.

 

[wildcat8084]

Hell, you could argue pretty convincingly Louisville has passed Indiana.

Duke has also passed Kansas.

True

 

[BlueSince92]

Many of you seem to be missing what Hotelblue is saying here. He's not just saying that Duke has accomplished more than IU has in the past 23 years.

He's saying that in the past 23 years, in terms of championships, runner-ups, and Final Fours, Duke has accomplished more than IU has ever. Duke has accomplished more in the past 23 years than IU has in 114 years. And that's saying something since IU (was) definitely a blue-blood.

Both schools are tied in those respective time periods in terms of championships and Final Fours. But Duke has one more runner-up season, which breaks the tie.

It's all pretty amazing. Great thread.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Need a review of your college basketball history if 2 time championship winner UL and UF are better than Indiana. Knight, as much as I hate him, made them a blue blood while clappy, Sampson, etc have ran them into the ground. Still a few levels above the cards and gators.

I believe the OP's point was if you go back 25 years, Duke is a more elite program than IU, at least that's how I interpreted it.

Looking during this time, both UL and UF are absolutely better programs. Have more titles, FF appearances, conference titles, wins, etc.

 

[ArmyWildcat81]

Who hasn't passed Indiana as a program is the question.

 

[SMPLLFE111]

Lville, U Conn and Duke are well ahead of IU

 

[cathead64]

 

[wildcat8084]

Cathead is right. IU leads in chair throwing.

 

[jrpross]

And that's the guy who questioned the "integrity" of the school who hired John Calipari. The irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.

 

[ukalum]

The only quibble I would have is that Duke was not an up and coming program in the late 80's. They had been to 3 final fours and 2 title games prior to Krzyzewski, along with several conference champoinships.

I still think IU is still just the right coaching hire away from returning. What if Calipari had taken the IU job in 2010 instead of UK? Where would IU be right now? The elite talent that Calipari has brought to UK would have been at IU.

 

[ThroughBlue]

All Kansas has is regular seasons. UConn is as much a blue blood as Kanas is. Hell, Louisville is too.

 

[hotelblue]

I believe the OP's point was if you go back 25 years, Duke is a more elite program than IU, at least that's how I interpreted it.

Looking during this time, both UL and UF are absolutely better programs. Have more titles, FF appearances, conference titles, wins, etc.

i was saying duke in 23 years passed iu's entire tradition. none of the programs you guys are mentioning can make that claim. not even using all their years do they compare to iu's tradition 1940-1990. theirs is better than msu, uconn, uf etc. the only ones even close are ul and ku. but they were basically blue bloods before 1990. duke was not.

 

[wcc31]

The only quibble I would have is that Duke was not an up and coming program in the late 80's. They had been to 3 final fours and 2 title games prior to Krzyzewski, along with several conference champoinships.

I still think IU is still just the right coaching hire away from returning. What if Calipari had taken the IU job in 2010 instead of UK? Where would IU be right now? The elite talent that Calipari has brought to UK would have been at IU.

I agree, but what makes you think, after 20 years and three bad hires (well, two bad hires and one marginal hire), they'll ever get it right? IU's athletic department is run by a bunch of morons.

Meanwhile, 5 of UK's 7 coaching hires in the last 85 years have won national titles (and another took the Cats to the Elite 8 in Sutton).

 

[wcc31]

All Kansas has is regular seasons. UConn is as much a blue blood as Kanas is. Hell, Louisville is too.

Hate to stand up for Kansas, but do you know what blue blood means?

 

[hotelblue]

Many of you seem to be missing what Hotelblue is saying here. He's not just saying that Duke has accomplished more than IU has in the past 23 years.

He's saying that in the past 23 years, in terms of championships, runner-ups, and Final Fours, Duke has accomplished more than IU has ever. Duke has accomplished more in the past 23 years than IU has in 114 years. And that's saying something since IU (was) definitely a blue-blood.

Both schools are tied in those respective time periods in terms of championships and Final Fours. But Duke has one more runner-up season, which breaks the tie.

It's all pretty amazing. Great thread.

and if i had said '88, duke would have well more final fours in that time period as well, compared to iu's whole history. i'm glad you understood that lol.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Another IU thread?

 

[hotelblue]

Another IU thread?

what can i say, they keep making history.

 

[TopCatCal]

The reason Duke has surpassed IU as a basketball program has more to do with the fact that IU has totally fallen off the basketball map than anything Duke has done.

 

[KDcats11]

Another IU thread?

Yep, all we need is 1,000 more to catch up with the number of UK threads on Peegs, and that's with far less traffic too.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Yep, all we need is 1,000 more to catch up with the number of UK threads on Peegs, and that's with far less traffic too.

Yes, but Peegs kinda sux. I assume that is not your standard.

 

[ThroughBlue]

This is a basketball forum, and contrary to popular belief they DO actually still play ball in Bloomington

 

[LaCat70]

This is a basketball forum, and contrary to popular belief they DO actually still play ball in Bloomington

^^^^^
This.

 

[STEVE!]

Indiana has a program? Who knew?

 

[Neue Regel]

i was saying duke in 23 years passed iu's entire tradition. none of the programs you guys are mentioning can make that claim. not even using all their years do they compare to iu's tradition 1940-1990. theirs is better than msu, uconn, uf etc. the only ones even close are ul and ku. but they were basically blue bloods before 1990. duke was not.

It's interesting to look at it at different windows.

At the close of the 1989-90 season, Duke was the 6th winningest program of all time(IU was 12th) and had been to 8 Final Fours and 4 NCAA Finals. (4 FF's/2 title games under K, 4 FF's/2 title games under two other coaches) (at that time IU only had six FF's all time total but they had won an impressive five times in six trips. They now have 8 FF's) Duke was the #1 Bridesmaid at that time. Just could not win the big one, I'm sure they had the distinction of "Best program without an NCAA Championship."
Fast forward 25 years and Duke is no longer 0-8 in FF's, they've won it 5 times in 8 more trips to the promised land and moved up two more spots on the all-time victory list from 6th to 4th and are one of only four schools with 2,000+ wins.
I felt with the combo of wins and FF'S and 4 titles prior to 2015 that they moved ahead of IU anyhow but for those who lean strongly to NCAA Titles, that gap is now shut with IU and Duke. And Kansas now trails by 2 National Championships.

Updated stats through 2014-2015:

Most NCAA Championships:

1. UCLA-11
2. Kentucky-8
3. Duke/IU/UNC - 5
4. UCONN-4
5. Kansas/Louisville-3
6. lots of teams with 2.

Most NCAA Championship game appearances:

1.Kentucky/UCLA-12
2. Duke-11
3. UNC/Kansas-9
4.Indiana-6
5. Ohio State -5
6. UCONN/Georgetown/Michigan-4


Most Final Fours All-time:

1. UNC-18
2. Kentucky/UCLA -17
3. Duke-16
4. Kansas-14
5. Louisville/Ohio State-10
6. Michigan State-9
7. Indiana-8
8. Arkansas/Cincinnati/Oklahoma State-6
9. Stopping here, as seven teams have 5 Final Fours (UCONN, Florida, etc)

Most Final Four wins:

1. UCLA-25
2. Kentucky-21
3. Duke-17
4. UNC-15
5. Indiana/Kansas-12
6. Ohio State/UCONN-8
7. Cincinnati/Louisville-7

Most NCAA Tournament wins:

1.Kentucky -118
2. UNC -112
3. Duke-105
4. UCLA-99
5. Kansas-97
6. Louisville-75
7. Indiana-64
8.Michigan State-63
9. Syracuse-61
10. UCONN-56

Can someone post the all time wins list for the top 10 that includes the 2015 season?

 

[Nick Horvath]

Funny you use Duke as the program in this example, for sure they have.

What's more damning to IU is these following programs have surpassed them during the same time-frame:

Michigan State
UL
UCONN
Kansas
Syracuse
Florida

Umm.... Kansas was already "ahead" of Indiana, but none of those other programs are ahead of Indiana. IU will always have a nice little niche as the 6th blueblood out of UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, and UCLA.

How can you honestly say with any legitimacy that programs like Syracuse and Florida have surpassed Indiana? That is a complete joke. I also wouldn't rank UConn, Louisville, or Michigan State above Indiana, but at least those 3 are closer to IU than freakin' Syracuse and Florida. It makes you look like an idiot homer when you try and rationalize why Florida basketball is greater than Indiana basketball.

 

[Nick Horvath]

All Kansas has is regular seasons. UConn is as much a blue blood as Kanas is. Hell, Louisville is too.

Wow, you are a moron. Neither UConn nor Louisville holds a candle to KU's history, regardless of the fact that UConn has 1 more national title than Kansas. Louisville? Really? What about their program makes them as much or more of a blueblood than Kansas?

When people post stuff like this, it just shows you are biased against Kasnas and don't have the ability to think objectively about this. No one with any sort of legitimate basketball knowledge would rank either UConn or Louisville above Kansas in terms of the whole history of their programs, unless you just have a blatant agenda against Kansas (which many Kentucky fans do)

 

[UKDUNK]

Florida's putrid fan support will always keep them a notch below IU no matter what. They show up (somewhat) when their team is great, but disappear when they are just okay.....especially on the road. IU fans pack the gym even when they suck.

 

[hootervillearnolds]

A different take on what makes a program great. How many different coaches have taken them to championships or ff.

Obviously UK is far ahead is five different coaches with rings.

After that there are a bunch with two champs. By that measure duke is k and not much else.

 

[EliteBlue]

The reason Duke has surpassed IU as a basketball program has more to do with the fact that IU has totally fallen off the basketball map than anything Duke has done.

Not entirely true. That's why Duke has had a better last 23 years but surpassing IUs entire history (which is rich) is a huge accomplishment in that short timespan and all that credit goes to Duke and K....and the NCAA and tournament committee a few times.

Even if IU wouldn't have fell completely off and still added one more title it would still be a debatable subject when ranking all time programs.

 

[murpack]

Questions for the audience...Is UCLA still a blue blood or just resting on its past history? Is Duke without K> than UCLA without Wooden?