Duke and the 2016-2017 season.

[Son_Of_Saul]

When considering what Duke will likely put on the court in 2016-2017, one could quickly assume Coach K might actually feature one of this four most talented teams ever (along with the 1992, 1999, and 2001 teams).


They could very well have a returning core of Thornton, Allen, Kennard, Jeter, and Obi. Add Giles and Tatum to that core and it's hard to find a weakness with that roster. They'd have interior scoring, perimeter shooting, an elite point guard, and an elite wing player who can a bit of everything on a high level.

I write all of this (my first Duke thread in about a year, mind you, so please understand this is merely for the sake of discussion) because I think it's critical that Duke doesn't win a title this year (2015-2016). We should, as UK fans, be pulling for anyone, regardless of the opponent, next April. The reason for that is because I think they're in the driving seat in 2016-2017, and will be the odds-on favorite to give Coach K his 6th national title. That is not to say they will win it all - there are simply too many variables to make such a claim - but they will certainly have the talent to make it happen.

Thoughts?

 

[dckala2]

Like the sayonara sevens draft status, I don't give a flying fk.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

The worst thing about Duke winning it this yeaer, is now Duke has become the odds-on favorite for every recruit, K will stay forever, and Duke will never lose another game.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Like the sayonara sevens draft status, I don't give a flying fk.

No? So if and when K wins his 6th title, would that matter to you?

 

[dckala2]

No, I'm more focused on my career.

 

[TrustinCal]

You have to think UNC fan is feeling the pressure to win it all this year or they could be surpassed by Duke in the next year or two. That must be an uncomfortable thought for UNC fans.

 

[Smashcat]

If it isn't UK then I'm a Maryland fan next season.

 

[dezyDeco]

I write all of this because I think it's critical that Duke doesn't win a title this year (2015-2016). We should, as UK fans, be pulling for anyone, regardless of the opponent, next April. The reason for that is because I think they're in the driving seat in (whenever), and will be the odds-on favorite to give Coach K his (another) national title.

Thoughts?

Pretty much the same reasons I rooted against them this year... and years before.

Krybabyschitzski is College BB's and the Sports Media's anointed one. I'm sure the NCAA is thrilled that he passed The Baron. This year, Dook got the path that the overall #1 seed should've received, along with timely help from the refs. I doubt that'll be the last time they get benefits they don't deserve, so, combine that with a great team... and I don't even want to think about it.

 

[Nick Horvath]

Assuming we only lose Ingram and the two seniors (Jefferson and Plumlee)... then yeah, the 2016-2017 Duke team is going to be loaded. If we land just one of Tatum or Giles to that returning core then we would be one of the favorites in '17. If we land both Tatum and Giles, then we'd almost have to be the prohibitive favorites.

I think that's what our coaches are expecting (to only lose Ingram and the seniors), so we'll see. I don't really think we're a huge threat to win it all this coming season. I think it's UNC and Maryland as the clear-cut best teams on paper. The 2015 class as a whole is extremely weak compared to 2014 and 2016, so there will be a lot more growing pains for next year's freshmen. I'm not expecting anything crazy special from Thornton, Ingram, and Jeter. I think they'll be solid, but a clear notch below what both Tyus Jones and Winslow were. And Okafor goes without saying, obviously none of our bigs next year will be remotely close to Okafor. We will have better depth at C next year, but not nearly the scoring punch.

But yeah, it's hard not to look ahead a couple years for Duke. This coming season I'm expecting something like a 7-loss regular season and hopefully a Sweet 16 run. I'd be ok with that. Then 2017 is when we should have a real shot again. That sort of roster is what you strive for: already having a lot of solid multi-year players and then fill in the missing links with the uber studs like Tatum and/or Giles.

 

[Mike-D]

I don't give a crap about Duke or what their future could hold.

 

[ia.ukfan]

Why would you only expect to lose seniors and Ingram? I would think you lose many more. The days of only underclassmen projected in the lottery going pro are over, Duke will begin to lose more and more guys who project in the 20-60 range in the draft. That basically includes every player who will get legit time next year, so I would expect them to lose Ingram seniors and at least 2-3 others. The mindset no one will leave would be like a mindset 5 years ago that multiple top 15 recruits wouldn't go one and done at Duke. Times are a changing.

Having said that Duke will be legit as always provided K is at the helm.

 

[KnowsAllTellsAll]

The love affair with freshmen continues to amaze me and is blatantly displayed by the OP. Overselling the incoming freshmen and underselling the fact that teams like Kentucky and Kansas will also be brining in talented freshmen, but will also be brining back a lot more experience.

 

[KA4Prez]

I don't see Thornton being a OAD. I see Allen and Ingram being candidates to leave early, along with Plumlee and Jefferson graduating. Jeter and Kennard are definitely multiple year players. So, hypothetically speaking they would enter 2016-17 with Thornton, Kennard, Jones and Jeter, along with their incoming class.

Strong team, but I wouldn't say the greatest talent ever. Now, if they don't lose any of Thornton, Kennard, Ingram, Jones, Allen and Jeter, and bring in another Okafor/Jones/Winslow caliber class? You have an argument.

 

[LineSkiCat]

They are due for a setback of some kind. Eligibility, injury, etc. They have had zero issues since Irving injury, and in hindsight, it was really K who messed up their title hopes by putting him back into the lineup and killing the chemistry they had going.

 

[RamHard]

Roy better bring some studs in, K is getting almost everyone he wants, he is loaded up for couple more titles.

 

[RamHard]

You have to think UNC fan is feeling the pressure to win it all this year or they could be surpassed by Duke in the next year or two. That must be an uncomfortable thought for UNC fans.

Yes it sucks, Duke is making uncomfortable for everyone right now.

 

[StubbornPenny]

Or Mercer or LeHigh will beat them. Far too early to speculate on that stuff. As we've seen, even if you don't think someone is a OAD, that can change in a month's time.

 

[Neue Regel]

They are due for a setback of some kind. Eligibility, injury, etc. They have had zero issues since Irving injury, and in hindsight, it was really K who messed up their title hopes by putting him back into the lineup and killing the chemistry they had going.

Not exactly, Kelly's injury in 2013 hurt that team quite a bit. They were rolling after beating several top 10 teams before the conference season began. He came back late in the season and had that ridiculous 36 point game against a terrific Miami team but that was pretty much it for him the rest of the season. He did not return to his pre injury form and had surgery right after the season ended. I think if that team stayed intact they end up a #1 as opposed to a #2 with Louisville. ( He was also injured the year before and didn't play in the NCAA's in 2012. )

These past two years are the first injury free seasons Duke has had since 2010. Or the first without a significant injury rather. 11,12,13 all had injury issues. ( Still plenty of gimpy ankles and that type of thing throughout the year, okafor actually did miss one game with his foot) It's not just KY that's had injuries.

FYI I agree Irving just should have stayed out. Can't miss an entire conference season and be the same player.

2017? LOL, factoring in uncommitted recruits to do roster projections a year or two down the line and assuming players x and y will stay is quite a leap of faith.

 

[bigc45157]

Need Cal and the Cats to change their luck.

If we kept Ullis, Lee, Matthews, Mulder, Willis, and Hawkins we'd have a very nice retiring group. Throw in 4 to 5 recruits and we'll be just fine. Duke may have a few more too end guys, but we will have dudes who can give them all they want.

I will say, someone is gonna have to steal one from Duke soon because they are ROLLING!

 

[bucsrule8872]

They will probably look like this:

Starters
G Thornton
G Allen
G Jones
F Tatum
F Giles

Key Reserves
G Kennard
F Obi
F Jeter

That doesn't look like superior talent to what other teams should also have.

The backcourt has some great shooters, but not overwhelming quickness.

The frontcourt isn't huge with Giles, Jeter, and Obi. Those guys are 6'9-6'10-ish.

I think people are getting paranoid about Duke and K like they were with UK and Cal after 2012.

K is not going to win the title every year. He's averaging one every 5-7 years, so it's not like he has a Wooden-esque dynasty going on.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

They will probably look like this:

Starters
G Thornton
G Allen
G Jones
F Tatum
F Giles

Key Reserves
G Kennard
F Obi

That doesn't look like superior talent to what other teams should also have.

The backcourt has some great shooters, but not overwhelming quickness.

The frontcourt isn't huge with Giles and Obi. Even if they add another big like Bolden, they still aren't huge.

I think people are getting paranoid about Duke and K like they were with UK and Cal after 2012.

K is not going to win the title every year. He's averaging one every 5-7 years, so it's not like he has a Wooden-esque dynasty going on.

Their backcourt would probably be one of the fastest in the nation. Thornton is as quick as they come for a point guard and Allen just spent the national title game taking Wisconsin off the dribble whenever he pleased.


They would feature two top 5 picks, and four other five star players in Allen, Jeter, Thornton, and Kennard, plus excellent supplemental support in Obi and a former Mickey D, Matt Jones.

 

[Aike]

This thread is the height of paranoia. Either of the next 2 years we could just as easily do what Duke did this past season - win the title with the 2nd or 3rd best team.

Or it could be like '14 or '11, with a result out of left field. Hard to see how we have anything to be scared of. Let's lace em up and see where it goes.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Their backcourt would probably be one of the fastest in the nation. Thornton is as quick as they come for a point guard and Allen just spent the national title game taking Wisconsin off the dribble whenever he pleased.


They would feature two top 5 picks, and four other five star players in Allen, Jeter, Thornton, and Kennard, plus excellent supplemental support in Obi and a former Mickey D, Matt Jones.

I forgot about Jeter. I think he will be back.

Wisconsin did a terrible job on Allen defensively. And Wisconsin wasn't exactly a quick team. I haven't seen Thornton yet, so I am not sure about his quickness. If they are all lightning quick, they won't be around in 2016-17.

If UK has Ulis, Simmons, Langford, Mulder, and Matthews, I think our perimeter will be just as good or better.

Besides, the favorites don't always win anyway. Since 2009, only one preseason number one has won it all (UofL in 2013).

 

[sluggercatfan]

Roy better bring some studs in, K is getting almost everyone he wants, he is loaded up for couple more titles.

Wow...what a difference a game makes...Before Wisconsin this is the way every one was talking about KENTUCKY AND CAL...I guess when you win championships like K does then you have earned it...Players to the league AND win championships...

 

[CUT-NETS]

The love affair with freshmen continues to amaze me and is blatantly displayed by the OP. Overselling the incoming freshmen and underselling the fact that teams like Kentucky and Kansas will also be brining in talented freshmen, but will also be brining back a lot more experience.

Problem is Duke has Coach K who doesn't get tight and have circles coaches around him in big games. The guy is the best in the business and his teams always peak at the very end where it matters most. To think that we went three straight possessions with shot-clock violations is pathetic.

 

[CUT-NETS]

This thread is the height of paranoia. Either of the next 2 years we could just as easily do what Duke did this past season - win the title with the 2nd or 3rd best team.

Or it could be like '14 or '11, with a result out of left field. Hard to see how we have anything to be scared of. Let's lace em up and see where it goes.

Again, they have Coach K. Thats the only thing to be scared of. I know with Cal we will always have the talent to compete with Duke and other big boys and we will always be in the hunt, I'm simply not confident that we will be the most prepared. I think Cal is a great Coach, but not like Coach K. Cal gets tight and pulls the reigns in on his players and his team. Coach K relishes those moments and his teams typically come through. I love what Cal can do on the recruiting trail but I am not sold on his ability to get it done unless he has a transcendent player like AD, and even then he pulled the reigns against Kansas.

 

[Aike]

Again, they have Coach K. Thats the only thing to be scared of. I know with Cal we will always have the talent to compete with Duke and other big boys and we will always be in the hunt, I'm simply not confident that we will be the most prepared. I think Cal is a great Coach, but not like Coach K. Cal gets tight and pulls the reigns in on his players and his team. Coach K relishes those moments and his teams typically come through. I love what Cal can do on the recruiting trail but I am not sold on his ability to get it done unless he has a transcendent player like AD, and even then he pulled the reigns against Kansas.

You are a broken record. Coach K is great, but he has failed to get it done on numerous occasions.

He has had 2 special runs in the past 6 seasons. Prior to that, he had gone 9 years without a Title. 6 years without a Final Four.

He has blown it way more often than he's pulled it off. But you actually know all this, right?

 

[CUT-NETS]

You are a broken record. Coach K is great, but he has failed to get it done on numerous occasions.

He has had 2 special runs in the past 6 seasons. Prior to that, he had gone 9 years without a Title. 6 years without a Final Four.

He has blown it way more often than he's pulled it off. But you actually know all this, right?

2>1 in the last 6 years thats the only number i need to know. Wouldn't matter to me that if in the other 4 years Duke lost in the NIT to Robert Morris…..wait a second….I mean it wouldn't matter to me what happened in the other 4 years if I knew I were going to have 2 titles.

 

[Aike]

2>1 in the last 6 years thats the only number i need to know. Wouldn't matter to me that if in the other 4 years Duke lost in the NIT to Robert Morris…..wait a second….I mean it wouldn't matter to me what happened in the other 4 years if I knew I were going to have 2 titles.

That makes you either a troll or a miserable human being. Quite possibly both.

You also continue to make no logical sense. Were we also supposed to be scared of K from 2002-2009? Or did he just figure this thing out in his 60s?

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Problem is Duke has Coach K who doesn't get tight and have circles coaches around him in big games. The guy is the best in the business and his teams always peak at the very end where it matters most. To think that we went three straight possessions with shot-clock violations is pathetic.

You are consistently one of the worst posters on this board.

 

[CUT-NETS]

That makes you either a troll or a miserable human being. Quite possibly both.

You also continue to make no logical sense. Were we also supposed to be scared of K from 2002-2009? Or did he just figure this thing out in his 60s?

Who is the better coach? Coach K or Coach Cal.

 

[Aike]

Who is the better coach? Coach K or Coach Cal.

I prefer Cal. Outside of the year Nerlens went down, Cal hasn't flamed out of a tournament in forever.

I have no problem with those who would select K, however. In all honesty, you can't go wrong with either.

 

[CUT-NETS]

That makes you either a troll or a miserable human being. Quite possibly both.

You also continue to make no logical sense. Were we also supposed to be scared of K from 2002-2009? Or did he just figure this thing out in his 60s?

Knowing that 2 titles is more than 1 makes me a miserable human being? I think the difference between myself and many on this board (like you) is that I can admit that Coach K is the best coach in basketball and yes, he is better than Cal. Cal is probably second. Coach K is in his 60's and is still adapting.

The game has gone to one and done? Ok he says, I can do that, bam, two titles in 6 years. My man to man defense isn't working against this team? Ok, bam Ill go zone and drill UL because they can't shoot. Thats what great coaches do. They don't stay in man when getting blasted by a quicker Uconn team in the national title game because they are stubborn. They don't keep in a 6'5 point guard who is losing confidence by the second after 3 straight shot-clock violations in the final four game when they have a point guard in Ulis who can't be stopped.

Face it man, Cal is stubborn as hell and has cost himself at least two national titles because of it and almost three of them. 3 straight shot clock violations? You don't call a timeout? Bo Ryan coached circles around Cal. How can that happen? 38-0 and a perfect season riding on it and your players aren't leaving it all on the floor? Willie Cauley-Stein just disappears?

Sorry, but Coach K has this thing figured out in terms of recruiting, and he has the coaching acumen to get it done when it counts. Duke is a train that is barreling down the tracks and I don't envision anything stopping it.

 

[Mike-D]

Who is the better coach? Coach K or Coach Cal.

I have an idea. If you're so obsessed with Duke, take your @ss on over to their rivals website, and blow Coach K. We all would be more than happy to see you go.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I prefer Cal. Outside of the year Nerlens went down, Cal hasn't flamed out of a tournament in forever.

I have no problem with those who would select K, however. In all honesty, you can't go wrong with either.

So you would rather have less "flameouts" in the tournament even if it means less national titles?

 

[bucsrule8872]

You guys are acting like K hasn't lost in years and can't be beat.

What is the deal with the paranoia?

K has as much chance of going out early as he does winning it all.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I have an idea. If you're so obsessed with Duke, take your @ss on over to their rivals website, and blow Coach K. We all would be more than happy to see you go.

Another one who can't admit it. Doesn't mean you aren't a UK fan buddy.

 

[Mike-D]

How many threads can CUT-NUTS derail with his Calipari/Coach K crap? It's a broken record. If he can hi-jack a thread with this topic, he will do it everytime. The guy can't shut up about it.

 

[CUT-NETS]

You guys are acting like K hasn't lost in years and can't be beat.

What is the deal with the paranoia?

K has as much chance of going out early as he does winning it all.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I am looking at what he is doing right now. Coach K has adapted and accepted the one and done era. Before he was coming close without the one and dones, now he gets just as many as Cal and he's producing titles with it. Thats why there is paranoia because the best coach in college basketball has also just perfected getting top one and done players. Cal was never the best coach he was just the best recruiter.

 

[.S&C.]

I've been called a Duke fan over less than this thread Saul.

In all seriousness this is exactly why I was terrified of Duke winning a title this year. They are set up on easy street to take the team of the decade of the teens now, and it doesnt help the perception with the media already crowning them "team of the modern era" either. You don't have to like this, or believe it. It's happening.

If Duke wins a championship in the next three years which is very possible, they will be damn near crowned Mr. Everything for years and years. I'm sorry, but I dread that.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about Cal vs. K. I don't think thats the extended nature of the thread and it's reading like a red herring thrown about by some who don't wish to look at this topic directly. K has 5 championships. It's a stupid topic to be had.

K's system is better equipped at this time imo. He is recruiting an influx of OAD talent and upperclassman scorers, which together can be a deadly combination in the current college game. Kentucky should absolutely keep an eye on that situation as they seem to be passing UNC right now. If I were a UNC fan, I'd be more depressed about that than the scandal. Duke is eating them up.