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Cronin, Pitino's 7th best assistant ever, is still a Final Four coach. What does Calipari have to show from his coaching tree?

Son_Of_Saul

Son_Of_Saul

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Pitino's coaching tree: Billy Donovan (2 NCAA titles), Tubby Smith (1 NCAA title), Frank Vogel (NBA title), Jim O'Brien (Eastern Conference finals), Herb Sendek (three x conference coach of the year, 533 career wins), Jeff Van Gundy (NBA Finals coach), Mick Cronin (Final Four), Ralph Willard (4 NCAA births), Scott Davenport (Bellarmine), John Pelphrey, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies (Missouri coach), Kevin Willard (Maryland coach), Stu Jackson.

Pitino assistants had three teams in this year's tournament. Three. And that's with Smith retired and Donovan in the NBA.


Can anyone name even one Calipari assistant who's gone on to have decent success?

Additionally, what does this absence of high-profile assistants say philosophically about Calipari's approach to the game?
 
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Some are just not cut out to be the main guy. Belichick coaching tree isn’t very impressive either.

CCC seems to like to have guys around him he likes. That’s fine but what do they offer to help players develop and execute.

I remember Cal’s comment at his intro press conference talking about “the secret”. First, “Get really good players”, second “get really good players”.
 
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Cowtown Cat said:
Lmao sure. 🤦‍♂️
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Honestly, aside from Donovan, who is obviously very, very good, who on his list do you want to hire?

Cronin had 1 magical run to a F4 with an 11 seed. Hasn't been able to replicate that with better teams. Vogel won a championship in the bubble and had Lebron and AD after like a 5 month shutdown. Then he followed that up by getting fired while having one of the most stacked rosters available.

So, who would you want from that list?

Son_Of_Saul said:
Lead Belly is the Derrick Coleman of this message board. He used to have some solid troll skills, but eventually got lazy, intellectually fat, and is now just a journeyman troll getting waived by the mods from username to username.

Derrick-Coleman.jpg
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Well, I can see I've struck a nerve....again! 🤣

I don’t really have to troll. You've convinced yourself every poster who disagrees with you is me. I just sit back and watch you troll yourself. 😉

P.S. I appreciate all the likes you and Cowtown keep giving me. Helps get my numbers up!
 
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Lead __ Belly said:
Honestly, aside from Donovan, who is obviously very, very good, who on his list do you want to hire?

Cronin had 1 magical run to a F4 with an 11 seed. Hasn't been able to replicate that with better teams. Vogel won a championship in the bubble and had Lebron and AD after like a 5 month shutdown. Then he followed that up by getting fired while having one of the most stacked rosters available.

So, who would you want from that list?


Well, I can see I've struck a nerve....again! 🤣

I don’t really have to troll. You've convinced yourself every poster who disagrees with you is me. I just sit back and watch you troll yourself. 😉

P.S. I appreciate all the likes you and Cowtown keep giving me. Helps get my numbers up!
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I would take Vogel in a heartbeat. Also, it’s MUCH better than Cal’s. That was @Son_Of_Saul point.
 
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Cowtown Cat said:
I would take Vogel in a heartbeat. Also, it’s MUCH better than Cal’s. That was @Son_Of_Saul point.
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Why Vogel? He's never coached a collegiate game. IIRC, he's never been a college assistant. He led the Lakers to 1 good finish, but that was having 2 of the best players ever and being in the bubble. He sucked after so bad after he got fired and still hasn't been hired again.

And I conceded it was better, but almost exclusively because of Donovan. Take him off and that's a pretty subpar coaching tree when you break it down. And just being better than Cal doesn't make it good. Particularly when we have determined Cal is one of the worst coaches ever.
 
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Son_Of_Saul said:
Pitino's coaching tree: Billy Donovan (2 NCAA titles), Tubby Smith (1 NCAA title), Frank Vogel (NBA title), Jim O'Brien (Eastern Conference finals), Herb Sendek (three x conference coach of the year, 533 career wins), Jeff Van Gundy (NBA Finals coach), Mick Cronin (Final Four), Ralph Willard (4 NCAA births), Scott Davenport (Bellarmine), John Pelphrey, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies (Missouri coach), Kevin Willard (Maryland coach), Stu Jackson.

Pitino assistants had three teams in this year's tournament. Three. And that's with Smith retired and Donovan in the NBA.


Can anyone name even one Calipari assistant who's gone on to have decent success?

Additionally, what does this absence of high-profile assistants say philosophically about Calipari's approach to the game?
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To be fair what has any of Coach K's former assistance ever really done and he is regarded as the GOAT by a lot of people. I mean the most successful is Mike Brey and he has done nothing in the tournament. Having a successful coaching tree isn't a measuring stick I look at to determine someone's ability as a coach.
 
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Why the hell is this board so obsessed with Cal's coaching tree all of a sudden? There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Cal but a coaching tree isn't one of them. Coaching trees are completely irrelevant. You know who else has an awful coaching tree? Bill Belichick.
 
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Give it up SOS. Cal is not only a way better man then Rick. He's also the better coach. Killed him head to head. Even beat him with his best team he ever had. 96. Went to more final 4s. Coached recruited got better talent. Even at mid level programs. Never had I ever seen a guy so bad off court or more than Rick.

So yeah Rick needed more of a staff to win. He can't do it on his own.
 
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Lead __ Belly said:
Aside from Donovan, Pitino's coaching tree doesn't look that strong. Hell, most of those dudes were fired.
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I think you missed the main part of the question which is of highest concern at the moment. What has our current coach produced in the area of mentoring coaches? Especially since coaching is his main job.
 
CatFanInIlliniLand said:
I think you missed the main part of the question which is of highest concern at the moment. What has our current coach produced in the area of mentoring coaches? Especially since coaching is his main job.
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Why is what other coaches he produced relevant? He is still the head coach here, his players still play the game. I don't really care about what his assistants do elsewhere.

What coaches in the game today have these impressive coaching trees? Who was Jay Wright's? Scott Drew's? Tony Bennett's? Tom Izzo's? Coach K's? Roy Williams'?

So, why does a coaching tree matter?
 
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Who gives a shit really. A coaching tree isnt gonna get us back on track or give us our program back. IDC about all the BS everyone wants to bag in Cal for really, I just want him gone and a new coach who actually cares about UK, wins and losses and our fan base.
 
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Lead __ Belly said:
Why Vogel? He's never coached a collegiate game. IIRC, he's never been a college assistant. He led the Lakers to 1 good finish, but that was having 2 of the best players ever and being in the bubble. He sucked after so bad after he got fired and still hasn't been hired again.

And I conceded it was better, but almost exclusively because of Donovan. Take him off and that's a pretty subpar coaching tree when you break it down. And just being better than Cal doesn't make it good. Particularly when we have determined Cal is one of the worst coaches ever.
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He did a great job with the Pacers for several years. Took them to the East Finals a couple times at least.
 
Cronin wouldn’t even have that FF if it wasn’t for Cal gifting him Johnny Juzang.
 
Kevin Keatts, Steve Masiello, RP, JR. Sure I’m missing some others.

Pitino hires guys to develop them into head coaches. Cal is more of a CEO, who hires people to complement him, with little concern for their future development beyond that role.

He, generally, isn’t duplicatable. And/or he doesn’t know how to teach people what he does.
 
Son_Of_Saul said:
Pitino's coaching tree: Billy Donovan (2 NCAA titles), Tubby Smith (1 NCAA title), Frank Vogel (NBA title), Jim O'Brien (Eastern Conference finals), Herb Sendek (three x conference coach of the year, 533 career wins), Jeff Van Gundy (NBA Finals coach), Mick Cronin (Final Four), Ralph Willard (4 NCAA births), Scott Davenport (Bellarmine), John Pelphrey, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies (Missouri coach), Kevin Willard (Maryland coach), Stu Jackson.

Pitino assistants had three teams in this year's tournament. Three. And that's with Smith retired and Donovan in the NBA.


Can anyone name even one Calipari assistant who's gone on to have decent success?

Additionally, what does this absence of high-profile assistants say philosophically about Calipari's approach to the game?
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Who gives a crap about coaching trees. How is Bill Belichick’s coaching tree?
 
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Lead __ Belly said:
Why Vogel? He's never coached a collegiate game. IIRC, he's never been a college assistant. He led the Lakers to 1 good finish, but that was having 2 of the best players ever and being in the bubble. He sucked after so bad after he got fired and still hasn't been hired again.

And I conceded it was better, but almost exclusively because of Donovan. Take him off and that's a pretty subpar coaching tree when you break it down. And just being better than Cal doesn't make it good. Particularly when we have determined Cal is one of the worst coaches ever.
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I'm actually kinda surprised that Vogel gets so much love on this board. Makes no sense to me. There's almost no actual substance on his resume that makes me think he'd be the right hire after Cal. I mean, I know the 'why', just surprised so many people just casually look past all the glaring holes in the resume.
 
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SemperFiCat said:
I'm actually kinda surprised that Vogel gets so much love on this board. Makes no sense to me. There's almost no actual substance on his resume that makes me think he'd be the right hire after Cal. I mean, I know the 'why', just surprised so many people just casually look past all the glaring holes in the resume.
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Frank Vogel can coach, but I have no idea if he can recruit, deal with the egos of 18 year olds, etc.

If Cal left tomorrow and we hired Vogel, I wouldn’t be excited or disappointed. Would be wait and see mode for me.
 
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There's very little coaching involved in the NBA. It's all one on one BS, layups and 3's. Somebody go make a play. Cal runs our team and program just like the NBA and it's why we see very little coaching out of him. He tries to prepare his guys for the NBA and that's how things are run there. It obviously is not a successful model for a consistent blue blood in college basketball but things are not gonna change. He's gone after next year.
 
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Son_Of_Saul said:
Pitino's coaching tree: Billy Donovan (2 NCAA titles), Tubby Smith (1 NCAA title), Frank Vogel (NBA title), Jim O'Brien (Eastern Conference finals), Herb Sendek (three x conference coach of the year, 533 career wins), Jeff Van Gundy (NBA Finals coach), Mick Cronin (Final Four), Ralph Willard (4 NCAA births), Scott Davenport (Bellarmine), John Pelphrey, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies (Missouri coach), Kevin Willard (Maryland coach), Stu Jackson.

Pitino assistants had three teams in this year's tournament. Three. And that's with Smith retired and Donovan in the NBA.


Can anyone name even one Calipari assistant who's gone on to have decent success?

Additionally, what does this absence of high-profile assistants say philosophically about Calipari's approach to the game?
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A bunch of unemployed Coach's and any that have teams will probably end up fired.
 
Who gives a shit about a guy's coaching tree?!

Weird thread and topic on here lately.

If anything, an argument can be made that the worse a guy's coaching tree is, the better that coach actually is because he didn't have superstars as assistants helping him out.

Roy Williams coaching tree is abysmal, was he a terrible coach?

Bill Self's coaching tree is also really, really bad.

So what are we talking about??
 
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Son_Of_Saul said:
Pitino's coaching tree: Billy Donovan (2 NCAA titles), Tubby Smith (1 NCAA title), Frank Vogel (NBA title), Jim O'Brien (Eastern Conference finals), Herb Sendek (three x conference coach of the year, 533 career wins), Jeff Van Gundy (NBA Finals coach), Mick Cronin (Final Four), Ralph Willard (4 NCAA births), Scott Davenport (Bellarmine), John Pelphrey, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies (Missouri coach), Kevin Willard (Maryland coach), Stu Jackson.

Pitino assistants had three teams in this year's tournament. Three. And that's with Smith retired and Donovan in the NBA.


Can anyone name even one Calipari assistant who's gone on to have decent success?

Additionally, what does this absence of high-profile assistants say philosophically about Calipari's approach to the game?
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Pitino provided growth for many of these guys even though a few were with him a very short time. Pitinos coaching tree is big and the growth provided was due to the fact, the tree was good fertilizer. Pitino was and is full of shit. Good coach---shit person.
 
Having to bring up Pitino’s coaching tree to prove he’s better than Cal proves he isn’t.. lol RP’s resume nor head to head indicates he’s better so you have to argue with what y’all have, I understand. 🙂 By the way, I hate Cal and wish he’d leave Lexington by noon and it’s 11:23am now.
 
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cat tat2 said:
His success is solely dependent on having the most talented players. Nothing to do with philosophy or scheme. He is the most overrated and overpaid coach in college basketball. IMO
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I don't think yours is as much "opinion" any more ... it's fact. He's overrated and overpaid.
 
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From this assuming Pitino has to depend heavily on his assistants to coach. Without them he couldn’t get it done. Unable to go it alone.
 
Did you know Saban is a big basketball fan as week? He plays pick up ball most days at lunch with assistant coaches

I live in Birmingham and have always wanted an invite to play in that game in Tuscaloosa

I’ve wondered how Saban would do as a basketball coach.
 
Wonky said:
Cronin wouldn’t even have that FF if it wasn’t for Cal gifting him Johnny Juzang.
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Cronin didn't sit him on the bench and Juzang was smart enough to get the hell out of Lexington. I wonder if Cronin thanked Cal for being the dumbass that he is?
 
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