Competing for NCAA title
- Thread starter docholiday51
- Start date
Crazy opinion. In 2017 we had an elite team that lost on a buzzer beater to the eventual national champion. In 2019 we were a shot away from the Final Four and lost in OT. Not to mention 2022 was on the short list of betting favorites to win it all.
I am holding out an answer to see how the next 4 weeks go and truthfully I am more concerned with match ups in the tourney than our actual seed.
There will be upsets all over the bracket and who we play game to game is a much bigger factor than our seed.
Of course I say all that hoping we land in the 3-6 seed range, but if totally shit the bed and are an 8-10 seed then my logic goes out the window
There will be upsets all over the bracket and who we play game to game is a much bigger factor than our seed.
Of course I say all that hoping we land in the 3-6 seed range, but if totally shit the bed and are an 8-10 seed then my logic goes out the window
Good pointI am holding out an answer to see how the next 4 weeks go and truthfully I am more concerned with match ups in the tourney than our actual seed.
There will be upsets all over the bracket and who we play game to game is a much bigger factor than our seed.
Of course I say all that hoping we land in the 3-6 seed range, but if totally shit the bed and are an 8-10 seed then my logic goes out the window
People like to forget we had some really good teams after 2015. Even the 2020 team was pretty solid with a much improved Nick Richards. Too bad Covid ended that season early.
Even 2022 was a great team that ran the eventual champions off their own home floor. People seem to forget that by tournament time that team had an injured TyTy, a Grady who could literally barely walk because of plantar fasciitis, and an Oscar who freaked out and refused to board the plane to Philly because he said he had a vision from God.
Not really since 2015.
The Fox/Monk/Bam team certainly had its strengths. But it also had Cal.
I don't think the roofer was honest but it was clearly Cal's bonehead coaching decisions that lost us that UNC EE game, and not anything the refs did.
2019 with Herro, Quickley, on Fire P.J. Washington, and the insanely ripped Reid Travis was a little vertically challenged. But overall it was one of the most skilled and talented and deep (enough) and balanced teams we've ever had at Kentucky.
But it also had Cal. I don't think you're gonna overcome that.
The Fox/Monk/Bam team certainly had its strengths. But it also had Cal.
I don't think the roofer was honest but it was clearly Cal's bonehead coaching decisions that lost us that UNC EE game, and not anything the refs did.
2019 with Herro, Quickley, on Fire P.J. Washington, and the insanely ripped Reid Travis was a little vertically challenged. But overall it was one of the most skilled and talented and deep (enough) and balanced teams we've ever had at Kentucky.
But it also had Cal. I don't think you're gonna overcome that.
It's tricky.
I mean on one hand 2017 and 2019 were one possession both from final fours. And you have to think either of those teams would have had as much of a chance as any of the other remaining teams.
On the other hand it goes back to............you could probably list 6-8 teams that have a realistic chance at the end of the season to win a title.
Would you put 2017 or 2019 in those teams?
2017 finished overall 4th in KP
2019 finished overall 8th in KP
Maybe?
Since 2019? No.
I mean on one hand 2017 and 2019 were one possession both from final fours. And you have to think either of those teams would have had as much of a chance as any of the other remaining teams.
On the other hand it goes back to............you could probably list 6-8 teams that have a realistic chance at the end of the season to win a title.
Would you put 2017 or 2019 in those teams?
2017 finished overall 4th in KP
2019 finished overall 8th in KP
Maybe?
Since 2019? No.
But this was always the issue that Cal had here.
Let's say 17 and 19 were title contending teams. Post 2015.......who else?
That's the issue. He had some really really good teams here but there was no consistency. Heck even when we won the title, we went to the NIT the next season. What national champion goes from that to NIT just one year later?
The COVID year.........granted that season was weird but that was horrendous. Another non NCAA tournament year.
Look at the seeds we got. Look at KU over that same time period.
That was the whole issue IMO
Let's say 17 and 19 were title contending teams. Post 2015.......who else?
That's the issue. He had some really really good teams here but there was no consistency. Heck even when we won the title, we went to the NIT the next season. What national champion goes from that to NIT just one year later?
The COVID year.........granted that season was weird but that was horrendous. Another non NCAA tournament year.
Look at the seeds we got. Look at KU over that same time period.
That was the whole issue IMO
Guess it depends on how you define "seriously"?
If you mean, did the team make a FF/Title Game? Well, no poll is needed as anyone can look up the record.
If you mean, were any teams since then REAL contenders going into the tournament? I agree w/ @king of cali, those teams were in 2017/2019.
This.
If we don't count those elite 8s then sadly we can't count any future elite 8 finishes for pope or any other future coach. This also means 2003 wasn't a title contender as well as 1992 and so on.
Of course not since 2019. 2020 who knows but my guess is sweet 16.
I liked the first Oscar year 2012-2022, and I think we were title contenders until Grady and Ty basically went down, and never really came back 100%.
Before the game against St. Peter's.. when I think a lot of casual fans didn't notice the real lingering injuries yet (unlike us UK fans).. there was a lot of people picking UK to win it all.
I remember watching the 3rd Tennesse game while on a ski trip, and my cousin and I both said "This team looks like a shell of what it was". We smashed Kansas and UNC, and like 3-4 of our losses in the SEC where when either Ty or Grady exited early because of injury. When we were healthy we were top3 in the nation IMO. But you can't lose your starting two wings, when your PG is undersized. It's the same as losing both our PGs this year.. too much to overcome.
Before the game against St. Peter's.. when I think a lot of casual fans didn't notice the real lingering injuries yet (unlike us UK fans).. there was a lot of people picking UK to win it all.
I remember watching the 3rd Tennesse game while on a ski trip, and my cousin and I both said "This team looks like a shell of what it was". We smashed Kansas and UNC, and like 3-4 of our losses in the SEC where when either Ty or Grady exited early because of injury. When we were healthy we were top3 in the nation IMO. But you can't lose your starting two wings, when your PG is undersized. It's the same as losing both our PGs this year.. too much to overcome.
2017 was a legit title contending team that lost on a last second shot to the eventual national champion. If that shot misses I think we go on to win the title that year.
2019 was a decent shot but less so. 2017 was one we should have had
2019 was a decent shot but less so. 2017 was one we should have had
I want to compete all year and then when the tournament comes have a competitive team. Some years that team will lose early, some years it will be an Elite 8 and other years a Final 4 and Championship. Just be in the conversation.
I was at that EE game. Every time we made a play that would give us momentum it was taken away by the refs.
A real contender has to win game 1 of the tournament, no matter if it is a 1 seed or a 16 seed. My definition of a REAL contender is a team that gets to the sweet 16. We haven't had a team that threatened to do that since 19.As fans none of us are happy with recent NCAAT showings and we might not be happy that2+2=4 but at the end of the day it still does. Success in the regular season and attaining a certain seeding does not equal contending for a title.
I just don't agree with this. The tournament has way too much variance for the definition of a "true contender" to be S16 at minimum. I honestly think any time you get a top 4 seed you're competing for a title.
That 2011 team was obviously a title contender, it made the Final Four. It was also one shot away from losing to Princeton in the first round. You're either a contender or you're not, that doesn't change because of one shot that happened to go your way in a single elimination tournament.
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You can break it down based on acquiring a 1 seed.
UK had 3 teams as 1 seeds, 2010, 2012, and 2015. That was the end of the run of having a team that was an obvious top 4 contender for the title. The 2017 and 2019 teams were second or third tier contenders.
I know it's splitting hairs, but I do think that 2017 team was a top tier contender. That Elite 8 game against UNC seems like it was the true national title.
I think because of how things ended with Cal people are devaluing his history here a bit. That 2017 was an absolutely great team.
Yep the answers reek of CDS. It’s sad people can’t be consistent. OP in another thread stated the 2022 Saint Peter’s team was more of a contender than the 2004 Kentucky team, the one that was number one overall seed in the tournament. Cal being coach is why the 2022 team is seen as not being a contender and that is actually sad. That was a really, really good team that had some terrible injury luck…much like this year.
Hard to compare our seeds to KU’s. For the most part, they have competed in a conference that has been soft for a long time. How many banners did they hang in that period?
So you consider losing in the first weekend to be an example of "seriously competing for a title?"
Interesting...
I’d be very curious what the general consensus was after than Florida game in 2020. I bet most of these same posters were saying that team was a title contender and prepared to make a big run.
Being a title contender doesn’t mean you can’t be upset. The 2019 Duke team nearly got beat by UCF. The 2018 Virginia team lost to a 16 seed, returned virtually the same team and won it all. March matters but so does the regular season.
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