Translation: No one really knows how little I know about football, so I'm going to let them all know right now.
CBS Sports Rank Mark Stoops 20th Best Coach in CFB
- Thread starter YaketySax
- Start date
Look at this list and tell me how many coaches are outperforming Stoops at a traditional doormat football program and then count how many are making similar or more money at a more prestigious football school and getting worse results. The two that are no longer employed jump out at me. How about you?
https://frontofficesports.com/who-are-highest-paid-college-football-coaches/
Well, Dabo Swinney has won 2 titles, Mel Tucker is definitely overpaid based on one season, you could make a similar argument for Lincoln Riley at USC, he's overpaid as well. Brian Kelly is just getting started at LSU, I'll give him another year or two before passing judgement. Jimbo Fisher was propped up by assistants in the past, we all know that by now. He was absolutely overpaid.
If I were a fan of any of those other schools, I'd have the same feelings about those coaches that I have about UK and Stoops. Maybe the level of winning I'd like to see at UK just isn't possible. I don't necessarily expect titles, I guess I'd just like to see UK make another step forward. Finish every other season with a ranked team, maybe make the playoff once in the next 5-10yrs (that is getting to be a more attainable goal with the playoff expansions).
My fandom started in 1981 and we have sucked balls for decades except for a few Music City Bowl years under Brooks and 1 or 2 years before Mumme got caught cheating. If anyone can't see that Mark Stoops is WAAAAYYYY overperforming our history, then I don't know what to say. We all want to take the next step, but ignoring the glaring context and forming opinions lacking nuance are asking to be challenged.
Exactly. I would love to hear the unrealistic expectations on what quality of coach we could attract. Especially if we fired Stoops without him bringing us back to 5-6 win game seasons. These coaches know our history, how hard it can be to recruit high level players to UK(ESPECIALLY compared to rest of SEC), that winning 9+ games every year isn't realistic yet simultaneously what half of our our entitled fanbase expects. The grass isn't always greener...
Many don't have the ability to properly judge risk vs reward. What's the upside/ceiling and downside/floor and the likelihood of either outcome? The upside is likely is similar to Ole Miss A step below elite, NY's bowls and now can make a 12 team playoff. The floor is we go back to hoping for a bowl every few years. If those outcomes are 50/50 would you risk what we have on a coin flip, if you lose you go back to Bill Curry era. Fvck no. Now if we find some rich boosters who are will to fund NIL like Ole MIss is doing, then that's another story and, frankly, I think Stoops could get there with a bit more money.
Since when is UK underpaying for MBB coaches? Cal was the highest paid coach in the country and Pope is a top 5 paid coach yet has never won a tournament game. I’d argue he’s overpaid for his resume.
I hate this argument. There are a lot of good coaches that would come here for $9mil/year. UK has never invested this much money in the program prior to Stoops. Not to mention, ACC/Big 12 coaches want to coach in the SEC now. Stoops has also benefitted from a very weak SEC East. Matt Jones finally admitted that yesterday, his words “UK could win 6 or 7 games and not even be good.” The schedule is about to get much tougher so I don’t know if Stoops will win more than 6 games next year (and barely won 7 last year).
I'm 54yo, my fandom started at about the same time. I know full well how bad UK has been traditionally. At some point though, expectations rise, Stoops has done that himself. There are also coaches that get paid a lot less than Stoops that are outperforming him. It goes does both ways. It's not about overperforming our history for me. It's been bad, you yourself admitted that. Which means outdoing it isn't really that much of an accomplishment if you want to be honest about it.
Who are these coaches who are outperforming Stoops and getting paid significantly less? PLease list them and let's discuss. I refer you back to my risk vs reward comment. We can go up a bit or we could drop a long way down. As you rise, the law of diminishing returns applies. I live in a world of facts and data analysis which includes analyzing historical trends and performance. The investors who fail to do that are the ones that increase mine/my clients' profits.
Yeah if you want the 20th best coach in the country at Kentucky, you probably need to pay them a top 10 salary, that's just how it works.
We literally just watched the *basketball program* thrown that kind of money around to 2 or 3 guys who quickly said "no".
But good *football* coaches would run here if offered the same? To, let's all be honest and accurate and factual here, what is consensus considered a bottom 25% program in the 16 team SEC. I ain't talking about recent results, or this seasons outlook. Ask any national CFB guy and Kentucky is considered overall historically down with S Carolina and Miss St.
You & every other fan with this incorrect mindset will see the truth when Stoops leaves. If Sumrall says No or is already at a Power 4 school, the search would go downhill very very fast.
Two national championship coaches said no to the basketball offer and one was about to say yes until apparently his family changed his mind. The football team would not be going after the Drews and Hurleys. They'd go after either top coordinator or G5 coaches and, yes, for 9 million, most answers would be yes, though I doubt it would take anywhere near 9 million for that. It's a moot point unless Stoops leaves.
Indeed. As someone who studies financial, real estate and business data for a living, I am constantly debating people who take multiple individual one time outliers and combining their results in their head into a mythological super power to try and negate solid results against another entity. It's astonishing how folks are unable to self-realize and then self monitor when our brains try to play those tricks on us. It is lazy thinking. It's just easier to take the first thought that pops in your head and seek out a singular piece of evidence to affirm your confirmation bias.
Why would you, or anyone else for that matter, prefer a coordinator that is unproven as a head coach, over Stoops, irrespective of salary? If we could get one for 5 million, why would you trade a proven commodity, and a successful one at that, for an unknown?
I wouldn't. That wasn’t my point. I was considering a hypothetical situation where he leaves, which was very close to "non" hypothetical a few months ago, not arguing for firing him. But if he does leave, we won't be begging for scraps when looking at replacements.
I agree with that. I think he has changed the perception of the program enough that good quality coaches would be interested.
Sumrall will walk to Lexington.
But your point is well taken.
Sure, we’ve had a higher, consistent profile since 2016 than we’ve had since Bear Bryant. And to recruits, that means since their 4th Grade.
But to us in their 50’s/60’s and older . . . yeah, we and Iowa State haven’t fully scaled the cliff with the last 6-8 decent seasons.
That would take a Bobby Bowden-esc effort for 25 years.
It's a fair point, but Pope was a proven D1 HC, not to mention alumni, and we doubled his salary to about $5m which is significantly less than the previous regime. I'm not sure I would characterize Pope as being "overpaid" like Stoops, but it's certainly an arguable point.
I’ve read this thought pattern, repeatedly on threads during Stoops’ best years. For some it must be far easier to forget past failures and less than mediocre results for decades, and to envision or imagine vastly improved results whilst banking on complete unknowns!!
Having sat at games watching us stub our toe for decades against the Rutgers, IU’s, Vandy’s, K-State’s, Tulane’s, etc., an 8 game bowl streak and three Bowl wins against ranked opponents has been pretty heady stuff.
And when Stoops’ overall record for 11 seasons is closely matched with that of Frank Beamer’s first 11 at Virginia Tech, I realize that objectively, Stoops should be respected for what he has done.
Yet we have (at least) one multi-decade poster who has literally asked “how much longer we will put up with this!!”
Stoops is compiling a potential HOF record, here, and some are quite literally pissed off.
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I believe Stoops has raised our status significantly. He has shown you can win here and there is adequate support from the AD, fans and with NIL, so I suspect there will many more who are interested than before he arrived, but I'm in no hurry to watch that process play out.
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