Cal should recruit players than can shoot

[The_Answer1313]

Going back tho to the original post........what makes you think having great shooters will equate to titles exactly?

I mean I look at it like Cal is obviously doing something right.........he's got us to the title game 50% of the time.

Do you know our best shooting team since Cal has been here? 2012.......that worked out

Do u know the second? 2013. We didn't do so well that year.

 

[arenk]

Going back tho to the original post........what makes you think having great shooters will equate to titles exactly?

I mean I look at it like Cal is obviously doing something right.........he's got us to the title game 50% of the time.

Do you know our best shooting team since Cal has been here? 2012.......that worked out

Do u know the second? 2013. We didn't do so well that year.

Nothing automatically equates to a title. I never said it did. I expressed a preference for ELITE athletes and especially good shooters. That can't always be accomplished, but if you look at our incoming stellar class, they are all good shooters at the HS level. Better to have good shooters than not. Are you saying otherwise?

 

[The_Answer1313]

The last three years especially we have been so good on the offensive boards, a missed shot was actually a huge part of our offense as ugly at it looks at times lol

If you shoot 50% but rebound 50% of the misses...well your going to score a TON of points lol

 

[CUT-NETS]

You're right, we lost in the final four that year

 

[The_Answer1313]

Nothing automatically equates to a title. I never said it did. I expressed a preference for ELITE athletes and especially good shooters. That can't always be accomplished, but if you look at our incoming stellar class, they are all good shooters at the HS level. Better to have good shooters than not. Are you saying otherwise?

no of course not. I mean ideally you'd want everything. But I don't think it's as if Cal isn't trying to recruit those guys. Its just like you said, sometimes HS doesn't exactly translate to the college game.

 

[arenk]

The last three years especially we have been so good on the offensive boards, a missed shot was actually a huge part of our offense as ugly at it looks at times lol

If you shoot 50% but rebound 50% of the misses...well your going to score a TON of points lol

True, but I only wish this year's team had the physicality of the 2010-12, 2014-15 teams.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Last year we ranked just 75th in shooting. But we lost that Wisconsin game because on defense we were terrible. The defense really let us down at the end of that season

 

[The_Answer1313]

True, but I only wish this year's team had the physicality of the 2010-12, 2014-15 teams.

I think we see that again next season.

 

[arenk]

Last year we ranked just 75th in shooting. But we lost that Wisconsin game because on defense we were terrible. The defense really let us down at the end of that season

It was poor defense to be sure, but in that awful 5 minute stretch after we took the lead by 4 and then came up empty on three straight possessions (which were actually 5 when you consider that we got rebounds on missed shots on two of them), it seemed as though no one wanted the ball or was willing to shoot it aside from the twins. Aaron missed his shots and Andrew was forced to go in against Dekker and Kaminski because the clock was winding down and absolutely no one seemed to be moving without the ball. I think that, more than anything else, cost us the game. Our defense wasn't great against ND either. In fact, I think we peaked early in the season and were both tired and feeling a lot of pressure going into the Wisconsin game. We played like it too. Your thoughts on that?

 

[deplion]

It is kind of funny to watch some of our fans bitching and moaning their way through one of the most outstanding runs in the history of college basketball.

Only at UK. Gotta love us.

 

[arenk]

It is kind of funny to watch some of our fans bitching and moaning their way through one of the most outstanding runs in the history of college basketball.

Only at UK. Gotta love us.

No Dep, we aren't moaning or bitching we are discussing the Wisconsin game which is why we have a discussion board. If you want Christmas cheer, you'll have to wait a few days. Not every discussion has to be in glowing terms.

 

[deplion]

You got me pegged.
No criticism of the coach or team. Ever.


You guys go ahead and knock yourselves out. As long as you keep it respectful, I don't have a problem with it (not that I matter anyways).

Cal isn't perfect. The team isn't perfect. Our game plans haven't been perfect. There is plenty to criticize if people want to do that.

On the other hand, I could not be happier about the overall state of the program under Cal's leadership. I'll take the bad with the tremendous amount of good and I am more than content. So, I personally won't be joining you.

Enjoy!

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

He was lights out in the Pan Am games, and every other game that was televised. Gets to UK and boom, can't shoot anymore.

It's clear Cal wants him to miss. He's probably been messing with his shot to turn him into a mediocre shooter. Thank you for enlightening us on what's actually happening.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

No Dep, we aren't moaning or bitching we are discussing the Wisconsin game which is why we have a discussion board. If you want Christmas cheer, you'll have to wait a few days. Not every discussion has to be in glowing terms.

Where did you stand as a fan from 1998 through 2010, and what were your thoughts on the program?

I only ask because perspective is a healthy thing.

Mulder is exactly the type of player you're coveting, and we already have one of him. He doesn't play because he can't play defense and is routinely lost on offense.

Getting some lock-down defender who can also hit 40% from three is a more difficult task than you might imagine. Most of those guys are upperclassmen at other programs, and UK isn't the most conducive program in the world when it comes to convincing 2nd tier kids to wait for their turn because elite kids who can play defense almost always get the priority over 3 star guards who can light it up from deep.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

So like Brandon Knight and Doron Lamb and Aaron Harrison and Devin Booker and Tyler Ulis, and Jamal Murray?

i bet if he woulda recruited those guys, we'd be awesome.

Exactly. UK has just inked two of the best shooting guards in its history in the last few months: Murray and Monk. It also inked a 46% three point shooter in Mychal Mulder.

The OP and others want a Tom Coverdale type every few years, which is fine; but what they have to understand is that we already have two of them (Willis, Mulder) and neither of them are going to get rotation minutes over guys like Briscoe, Murray, Monk, Gabriel, etc.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Maybe someone could help clue me in on who all these great shooting elite athletes are that Cal is ignoring?

 

[Clive Gollings]

So basically some want the absolute perfect player at all five spots. If they aren't the perfect player and we don't have the perfect season, then they'll harp on the imperfections.

Geez, some people are just miserable.

 

[blueblood65]

If only we were perfect and won every game by 20. Oh wait, that was last year and some fans still complained right up to the Final Four.

Trolls are gonna Troll..........

 

[AttackReload]

I mean we don't need to stop what we're doing at all. But we do need to have a Doron Lamb type on the roster every year. A shooter like Lamb coming off the bench would be lethal. This is what I worry about for next season. We need to add another guard to the class. Alkins is a good shooter but they'll be plenty of transfers out there who can play day 1.

 

[Hoskins91]

Another winning thread from this guy.

 

[ccukuk]

This could be true, but there aren't any stats to back up a decline in shooting ability. Free throw percentage is about the same as it was 50 years ago and higher than it was 20 years ago (red markers are NCAA average):

Overall field goal percentage went down for about 7 years after the introduction of the three point line because teams started taking more long jumpers, which have a lower percentage, but otherwise field goal shooting percentages haven't gone down since 1994:

Three point percentage starts a bit higher but stabilized also around 1994, presumably because defenses had adjusted to better defend the shot. Percentages from 3 over the past 20 years are flat:

Heyy, let's not let facts get in the way of stupidity.

 

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

No Dep, we aren't moaning or bitching we are discussing the Wisconsin game which is why we have a discussion board. If you want Christmas cheer, you'll have to wait a few days. Not every discussion has to be in glowing terms.

You weren't discussing any game until somebody else brought it up. Your op was one sentence until you went back and edited it to make it appear more thought out. Clive is right... You want the perfect player at every position.

Somebody asked you who these players are, that Cal is not recruiting, that in your mind he should. Answer the question or you have no point.

 

[.S&C.]

There lies the old argument of how do you know someone is good enough to eventually contribute, but not good enough to leave after a year? I bet the primary reason Lamb came back was because of the lockout, otherwise you would not even have him as an example. Then you have to argue, how much of it was due to him being an upperclassman, and how much of it was that he's probably the best shooter we've ever had (at least based on percentage)?

I don't argue that, in fact it probably was because of the lockout. As for your question, probably a little of both.

I don't know it to be true, but I believe if Cal made a kid like LK a priority, he would have gotten him. I reject the notion that Cal makes shooting ability any sort of priority when recruiting, and I believe it's probably cost him a few times. I think we've also got a great example of what I'm talking about too - Jodie Meeks 2010. Put him on the court with Wall and we don't slip up to WV and more than likely win the first title then.

 

[ccukuk]

Typical ignoramus type reply. At UK we don't rush courts, nor do we celebrate good or even great seasons. Since when is reaching a FF good enough at UK. Everyone was sick about that loss to Wisconsin and Uconn the year before and it left all true UK fans with a bad taste in their mouths. Shooting has been our weakness in most of Cal's NCAA losses. Remember the W VA game Warrior? Anytime someone says anything half way intelligent that isn't Ra Ra Ra UK, we get this standard, 'Cal's record is ....' or "That's why you aren't coaching'. Well neither are you. If losing suits you and FF's are good enough for you, root for some other school.

Why in your stupid words is that an ignoramous post? Win nearly all our games, lose a tourney game in the ff where all bets are off. You win the stupid web award of the day/week. Award pending.

 

[Joneslab]

I reject the notion that Cal makes shooting ability any sort of priority when recruiting, and I believe it's probably cost him a few times.

I think he's just looking for a certain mold, the way all coaches do when they recruit. Length, athleticism, ball-stopping defenders, drivers--that's what he tends to look for and those guys aren't the type who generally get in a gym and fill it up.

But in this sport you have to be elite at something. Cal's teams are usually elite or right on the brink of it defensively (minus '13). If you can really guard, then you can lose something with shooting. It's when you aren't elite at anything that you're not going to be a contender.

Right now, this team isn't elite at anything. Forget shooting: we're just inconsistent all the way around.

But: who thought we would be elite after all we lost? And: it's still December.

 

[ccukuk]

I don't argue that, in fact it probably was because of the lockout. As for your question, probably a little of both.

I don't know it to be true, but I believe if Cal made a kid like LK a priority, he would have gotten him. I reject the notion that Cal makes shooting ability any sort of priority when recruiting, and I believe it's probably cost him a few times. I think we've also got a great example of what I'm talking about too - Jodie Meeks 2010. Put him on the court with Wall and we don't slip up to WV and more than likely win the first title then.

Yeah, Cal wanted him to leave. Good post.

 

[Joneslab]

IIRC Cal made some tweets and/or posted to his website about ways that he was going to use Meeks that season. I don't believe he thought Jodie was going to leave.

 

[ccukuk]

Thanks for your rational post. You have pretty much encapsulated the point I was making after my initial post about recruiting players that can shoot. Apparently next year's class is laden with good shooters, but as we've seen, that doesn't always translate into being a great shooter as a freshman in Div 1 BB. I think it has a lot to do with adjusting to the speed of the game and also Cal's intolerance (and rightfully so) of players who don't give 100% on both ends of the court. When you're playing with such intensity on the defensive end, I think it affects your legs and, consequently, your shooting. But we've had some very heralded players come in and not shoot anything like they were billed as incoming recruits. I'll leave out the names of the players I have in mind, but by the end of next season, I expect Fox, Monk, Gabriel, Adebayo and Jones to all be decent or well above average shooters. We'll see.

So what is your point genius? Shoot well, give up points easily? Dumb, just dumb.

 

[ccukuk]

True, but I only wish this year's team had the physicality of the 2010-12, 2014-15 teams.

I wish you couldn't post stupidity, doesn't mean I'll get it.

 

[KnowsAllTellsAll]

wasn't Murray shooting lights out at the pan am games?
Isn't our FT% pretty good, if you take out Lee?
Sometimes our fans just suck

I believe Murray's scouting report prior to the Hoops Summit mentioned outside shooting as a weakness.

 

[ccukuk]

No Dep, we aren't moaning or bitching we are discussing the Wisconsin game which is why we have a discussion board. If you want Christmas cheer, you'll have to wait a few days. Not every discussion has to be in glowing terms.

Your post did not reference Wisconsin in any way. Nice try to slide the topic.

 

[ccukuk]

I mean we don't need to stop what we're doing at all. But we do need to have a Doron Lamb type on the roster every year. A shooter like Lamb coming off the bench would be lethal. This is what I worry about for next season. We need to add another guard to the class. Alkins is a good shooter but they'll be plenty of transfers out there who can play day 1.

So petition Cal and UK to be their recruiter and go get "said" player. Who is it and why isn't KY employing you to get that player?

 

[Aike]

I believe Murray's scouting report prior to the Hoops Summit mentioned outside shooting as a weakness.

No.

 

[Hoskins91]

I don't argue that, in fact it probably was because of the lockout. As for your question, probably a little of both.

I don't know it to be true, but I believe if Cal made a kid like LK a priority, he would have gotten him. I reject the notion that Cal makes shooting ability any sort of priority when recruiting, and I believe it's probably cost him a few times. I think we've also got a great example of what I'm talking about too - Jodie Meeks 2010. Put him on the court with Wall and we don't slip up to WV and more than likely win the first title then.

We've had guys who were supposed to be, like this year, and in 2013. Kennard isn't so far either, unless you are referring to the fact hes probably going to be around for a while. Of course he's in that range where he might not start every year with the way we recruit.

 

[Hoskins91]

I believe Murray's scouting report prior to the Hoops Summit mentioned outside shooting as a weakness.

I remember it being the other way around. He was seen as a spot up shooter and he developed his handle and passing.

 

[michaeluk26]

What's it say when the only person liking your post is Cutnets?

 

[sound defect]

69% is really not very good for FT shooting. Look back at some of the great UK teams in the past and you'll see that most hit close to 80%.

I'd like to know which teams averaged 80% from the line. That's incredibly high.

 

[AttackReload]

So petition Cal and UK to be their recruiter and go get "said" player. Who is it and why isn't KY employing you to get that player?

Who are you? I mean all I did was make a comment. Hell, an obvious one at that. Come on dude. We need a lights out 3pt shooter on our team every year. What if we had a Bryn Forbes coming off the bench this year? Granted that wouldn't help us in the low post but shooting is a weakness so far. But it should get better this year when Murray and Ulis's shots start falling.

 

[Aike]

I'd like to know which teams averaged 80% from the line. That's incredibly high.

We've only had two teams shoot over 75% in the past 30 years. None have shot 80%.

 

[jrpross]

For what it's worth, Monk is hitting 3's at 42% this season and shooting 55% overall. I really really really really really really really hope he comes close to those numbers next year.