Cal Says - "It's On Me"

[docholiday51]

Overall this was a weak class, Cal missed on 2 or 3 of his first choices. If we don't get Murray late then this is a bigger down season than it will turn out to be. As I said in another thread Cal pulled this class out of thin air and was lucky to get what we have.

When you hitch your star to this model years like this happen, so do years like last year and probably next year. This doesn't make Cal a bad coach or bad guy it is just the risk he is willing to take on a yearly basis.

In a weak year if you miss the few top guys that are on the board and you miss evaluate one or 2 guys then you have a problem. Lee and Poy are role players at this level, that is all they have ever been, this is due to Lee's skillset and Poy's mental approach to the game.

The question becomes how much can he change and how willing is Cal to change what he does for the rest of this year with this team. Will he alter who gets minutes, how we play or change the make-up of who is on the floor together. We are 11-3 currently, I doubt Cal is in a drastic change mode yet (probably not even to the point of tweak)

I agree with Cut Nets we should have at least 2 more titles, but it didn't happen, some blame belongs at Cal's feet but some of it was just bad luck. Last year Cal was so sure he had the best team in the country that when he got the 4 point lead with 4 to go he thought he could go with what he had done all year and be o.k., he was wrong, Ulis and Booker should have seen the floor some in that time span. Cal does a lot right but he does make mistakes usually by letting his stubbornness get in the way of a sound decision to make changes

 

[docholiday51]

Doc I think he thought Booker and Johnson would return until very late march last season.

Everybody did.

Yes I think that is correct, Johnson should have returned, Booker just blew up and was right to go. We thought Skal was a different player than he has turned out to be. We all saw him in 2 all-star games and for whatever reason he is not the same player we saw.

 

[screwduke]

This is why I love Cal. He's not afraid to own his mistakes. He doesn't point fingers at others.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

So Coach Cal says its his fault and posters don't accuse Coach Cal of being a troll? Weird.

 

[michaeluk26]

Lot of season left folks. We struggle on the road and will all year, just like 2011 and 2014. But this team is going to make a run and once again, as in those seasons, people will be eating a lot of crow. It was one game we all knew would be difficult. Wait till their in Rupp and at the sec and NCAA tournaments. This is exactly like those 2 seasons.

 

[uky8unc5]

It's on Cal for this....he relies on freshman every year. That's his mistake and it's catching up now.

What isn't his mistake is coaching. These guys are 17-18 the guys we rely on. They make terrible decisions he cannot change in one season. There is a massive learning curve UNLESS you bring in legit studs who play and look like men. MKG types of guys. The skals of the world have a long way to go and he will never develop as a college athlete bc he will be gone. I believe given the players we have Cals is doing ok. His hands are tied because he has very little power options

Sorry Man...this post really is hard to follow:
1- You want Cal to develop veterans: we have Lee, Poy, Ulis, Willis, Hawkins
2- You want Cal to rely less on 17-18's and recruit more MKG's: MKG was 17 year old one-and-done
3- You want less Skal's: how the heck do you know if a top 10 five star recruit will be Boom or Bust?
4- You say "It's on Cal"...and then say "He's doing OK...His hands are tied"

 

[Double Tay]

I don't know what he could change or how he could do anything differently. Obviously in a perfect world you recruit the best players and they stay all 4 years but thats just never going to happen.

Tay you have been on the "Cal does no wrong" wagon for a long time now. My stance on Cal has been that he is great and has been amazing but that he is blowing a golden opportunity to really do something that has never been seen before. I think he SHOULD have won two other titles. I think his own stubbornness got in the way of those two titles and I believe it will stay in the way.

I ask you this; what would you think about Cal's time here at UK if Pitino and UL win it all again this year making it two titles during the Cal era? Would you still be perfectly fine with the run Cal has had at UK? The multiple final fours and only one title? Or would you think, "Gosh, Cal had the perfect opportunity to blow the lid off this thing and didn't"?

I actually think in a field so wide open that UL could win it all. Guarantee you if they get two titles in the Calipari era nobody will take solace in an 8-1 record against them.

I totally understand Cal's not perfect. Stop making that strawman argument. I laugh at people on here that constantly criticize him because we don't play the way you want him to play. We're never going to play zone and we're likely never going to have four shooters on the floor at all times. For whatever reason, that drives you crazy.

In a perfect world all players would be the best recruits, stay four years, be incredibly athletic, and be great shooters. It's just not going to happen. And when you believe everything should be perfect you're going to constantly be disappointed.

If we are going to appoint people on certain wagons then I think it's fair to say you've been on the Pitino wagon ever since Cal got here. It's astounding to me you constantly bash cal but always give Pitino praise. I just will never understand it. Ever since you came on these boards a few years ago and guaranteed a U of L win over Kentucky you've never backed off despite uvel never beating Kentucky.

And I always read you make this ridiculous argument that were wasting a golden opportunity. For Gods sake – this is a golden era in Kentucky basketball's history. To suggest talent should always win tells me you really don't understand how this works. Talent will always give you an advantage, but so does experience. To me, you should be praising Cal for the fact he's been able to put up unbelievably great numbers in his time at uk. We seem to forget that just a few short years ago the narrative was constantly Cal would never be successful here because you can't win with a one and done system. Now we are suddenly killing him every day on these boards for not winning a title every other year- Literally – you think we should be winning a title every other year. It's completely absurd.

Almost as absurd as suggesting Louisville is a contender for a title this year. You really need to get over the fascination with Pitino and Louisville. It's so obvious by your posts through the years that you honestly want them to win it this year. I'm not saying you're a fan of the school but you can't convince me you're not up Obsessed with their coach.

 

[Bkocats]

Lot of season left folks. We struggle on the road and will all year, just like 2011 and 2014. But this team is going to make a run and once again, as in those seasons, people will be eating a lot of crow. It was one game we all knew would be difficult. Wait till their in Rupp and at the sec and NCAA tournaments. This is exactly like those 2 seasons.

This thread has had, I think, a legitimate discussion about the issues we see with the team as of right now. I don't think anyone has said it could NOT happen -
Can't argue that Cal is stubborn though - even though I don't quite agree with a couple of posters who said Cal should have two more titles, they make good points so I can't entirely DISAGREE either.
This has been a good thread for the most part.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I totally understand Cal's not perfect. Stop making that strawman argument. I laugh at people on here that constantly criticize him because we don't play the way you want him to play. We're never going to play zone and we're likely never going to have four shooters on the floor at all times. For whatever reason, that drives you crazy.

In a perfect world all players would be the best recruits, stay four years, be incredibly athletic, and be great shooters. It's just not going to happen. And when you believe everything should be perfect you're going to constantly be disappointed.

If we are going to appoint people on certain wagons then I think it's fair to say you've been on the Pitino wagon ever since Cal got here. It's astounding to me you constantly bash cal but always give Pitino praise. I just will never understand it. Ever since you came on these boards a few years ago and guaranteed a U of L win over Kentucky you've never backed off despite uvel never beating Kentucky.

And I always read you make this ridiculous argument that were wasting a golden opportunity. For Gods sake – this is a golden era in Kentucky basketball's history. To suggest talent should always win tells me you really don't understand how this works. Talent will always give you an advantage, but so does experience. To me, you should be praising Cal for the fact he's been able to put up unbelievably great numbers in his time at uk. We seem to forget that just a few short years ago the narrative was constantly Cal would never be successful here because you can't win with a one and done system. Now we are suddenly killing him every day on these boards for not winning a title every other year- Literally – you think we should be winning a title every other year. It's completely absurd.

Almost as absurd as suggesting Louisville is a contender for a title this year. You really need to get over the fascination with Pitino and Louisville. It's so obvious by your posts through the years that you honestly want them to win it this year. I'm not saying you're a fan of the school but you can't convince me you're not up Obsessed with their coach.

I hate it but UL is absolutely a contender this year. The field is wide open. There are 10 teams out there that could win it.

Yes Cal has put up unbelievable numbers but could he have done more? Should he have done more? He himself said he should have, why don't you admit that? You're not going to hurt his feelings. The guy has had more talent than anyone in the last 6 years. I just think with how things went down last season (didn't watch any film on Wisconsin. Never changed his defenses even though everyone in the country knew that when you play UK they are going to play man2man all game long), and how things went down in 2014 (refusing to zone a UConn team that had been zoned by UL and beaten down by 30 in the conference tournament), and in 2010 when he had absolutely no answer for Huggins zone....................that Cal's stubbornness got in the way. And futher than that, I think Cal's stubbornness is a problem. Its an issue. Its costing him. Without it, more than likely, he's sitting on 3 titles right now and we're right there with UCLA and he's knocking on the door of greatest coach of the modern era.

 

[Double Tay]

To me coach K might be the greatest coach in the history of sports-undoubtedly in college basketball. How many more titles should he have?

Again, you completely dismiss the fact that Cal had been historically successful despite being burdened every single year with incredible roster turnover. Why do you completely fail to recognize how incredibly difficult it is to win with freshmen every year? How do you not understand inexperience is an incredible equalizer to talent?

 

[CUT-NETS]

To me coach K might be the greatest coach in the history of sports-undoubtedly in college basketball. How many more titles should he have?

Again, you completely dismiss the fact that Cal had been historically successful despite being burdened every single year with incredible roster turnover. Why do you completely fail to recognize how incredibly difficult it is to win with freshmen every year? How do you not understand inexperience is an incredible equalizer to talent?

How can it be a burden when its the method and philosophy that he has chosen? Its not like someone has forced him to rely on freshmen every year. No one has forced him to turn over his roster every year and start a new. You can't build in that excuse when its his chosen modus operandi

 

[FiveStarCat]

How can it be a burden when its the method and philosophy that he has chosen? Its not like someone has forced him to rely on freshmen every year. No one has forced him to turn over his roster every year and start a new. You can't build in that excuse when its his chosen modus operandi

You're right that the turnover is a result of his recruiting and philosophy. No one will fight you on that. However, it's not an "excuse", it's just presenting the entire picturing instead of skewing it like you have been inclined to do. The way you frame your argument - that Cal has has hoarded a boatload of talent and should have at least 3 titles - makes it seem like Anthony Davis, Karl Towns, John Wall, Brandon Knight, Julius Randle, etc. were all on one team as 5th year seniors. That's not the case as you know. I've seen this explained to you multiple times by a poster whose name escapes me yet you continue to ignore it.

 

[BlueSince92]

In my very humble and probably flawed opinion, we have a team that could be consistently very good playing five out with trapping zone and no other way. Somebody correct me.

 

[Tannerdad]

UL is no more a contender than 20 other teams, including us. Stop that noise. If UL was coached by Bill Smith instead of Pitino (who some here have a boner for), it wouldn't matter near as much.

Cal is a victim/enabler/master of the rules that are out there. His marketing to the player first situation, along with great facilities and past success, allows him to be in the running and the recipient (most of the time) to the best recruits in the nation. We/he appeal to what these kids want.....to go the NBA ASAP. It's just the way it is. And because of that, we always will be young where it counts. Always.

You don't have to like it. (I am not fond of the rules) but you need to accept it. There are alternatives. We could be what we were before he got here. We could be Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan or several other teams out there that have really good teams once in a while that are actual threats to win it all in only a handful of years. We are and have been a threat 90% of the time since Cal got here. I am trying to figure out why that is a bad thing.

Should we have won more titles? I think so. But I also know how hard it is to win them. We have won 8 in our whole existence. Nobody has won more than 12 in ALL THOSE YEARS. And most of those were all won in one time frame 30 years ago. Things are different. UNC should have won more in their history. So should have IU and Michigan State (who at one time never had a Sr. class that did not go to a Final Four). Stuff happens. Bad draws, bad luck, bad games and yes, bad coaching, all cause bad stuff.

I don't think Cal is the absolute best coach in the nation. He has flaws to be sure. I do think he is one of the best and so do most reasonable analysts of the game. He sure as hell is the best overall recruiter, motivator and marketer of the game. And UK is in contention for a national title (and sometimes favorite) more times than we are not. We are blessed, and spoiled. And one day that may all be gone.

Cal is worthy of praise and worthy of criticism and he is big enough to handle both. He drives me nuts with some decisions, and I get as frustrated and mad as the next guy when we screw up, but when I look at the whole picture I realize where we could be instead of where we are. Not bad.

Just my take.

 

[W2R]

Not all classes are going to click early or at all

Next year we will be playing another tough schedule. Michigan state and UNC. Our "greatest class ever" could hit some bumps in the road
This season is far from over. That loss at uscjr. A couple years ago I was actually upset and when Aaron Harrison made his comments I said yeah right. That was the craziest tournament and ride as a fan I can remember

 

[Chuckinden]

IMO, recruiting OAD's works some years and some years it doesn't. Being an old timer, I don't like the system, but with the NBA taking kids on potential more and more every year, you have to recruit the best players available. Every coach tries to do that, but can't. Bo Ryan chided us as being a "rent-a-player" school, but he would have never turn down a OAD player. Those type coaches that allude to that just can't get them.

Cal has his flaws and offensive scheming is a huge one. I wonder if all the yelling and screaming he does to "drive, drive, drive" has affected the players psyche of hitting outside shots consistently. Maybe, just maybe, a player knows Cal wants him to drive, but he pulls up to take an outside shot and the first thing that enters his mind is "I better make this or Coach is gonna be pissed I didn't drive".

Cal, overall, has been the best coach UK has ever had. The way he handles the "outside" things surrounding the program is remarkable.

No one in their right mind would want to go back to any coach we ever had, including Rupp.

 

[docholiday51]

Chuck, you and I see things very much alike, probably a product of how long we have been fans. I would offer this. Even we weren't around in Rupp's heydays(late 40's early 50's) my point is that Rupp was the Cal of his day just as Cal is the Rupp of today. Rupp picked up some players who were coming back from military service (sort of OAD in reverse)

Rupp was here 40 years, even if Cal had gotten here instead of Pitino he would not been be here that long. I hope he does stay long enough to win at least 2 more NCAAT's

I think the media and the rest of college basketball view Cal and Rupp the much the same way. They have to acknowledge what both did/have accomplished but neither are liked.

All this to say that I believe it is very hard for someone living in this time to say that one is better than the other. If Cal should be here as long as Joe B Hall then Rupp and Cal may have somewhat equal numbers in terms of titles.

 

[crestcat]

Lee and Poythress are two glaring issues, and I don't put that on Cal. He's coached them until he's blue in the face and they've faced the best competition in the country for multiple years in practice and games...they just aren't great. They are good, just not great. I applaud Cal for blaming himself, however.

The only problem with Lee and Poy is that they are the same player, they are complimentary players but they don't compliment each other

 

[Bluegrass79]

its on Cal. He recruited the wrong guys for this. I expect him to dial in better from now on in recruiting. He must be able to identify the trait needed to play at Kentucky....the FIRE in the belly trait.

 

[KyFaninNC]

UL is no more a contender than 20 other teams, including us. Stop that noise. If UL was coached by Bill Smith instead of Pitino (who some here have a boner for), it wouldn't matter near as much.

Cal is a victim/enabler/master of the rules that are out there. His marketing to the player first situation, along with great facilities and past success, allows him to be in the running and the recipient (most of the time) to the best recruits in the nation. We/he appeal to what these kids want.....to go the NBA ASAP. It's just the way it is. And because of that, we always will be young where it counts. Always.

You don't have to like it. (I am not fond of the rules) but you need to accept it. There are alternatives. We could be what we were before he got here. We could be Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan or several other teams out there that have really good teams once in a while that are actual threats to win it all in only a handful of years. We are and have been a threat 90% of the time since Cal got here. I am trying to figure out why that is a bad thing.

Should we have won more titles? I think so. But I also know how hard it is to win them. We have won 8 in our whole existence. Nobody has won more than 12 in ALL THOSE YEARS. And most of those were all won in one time frame 30 years ago. Things are different. UNC should have won more in their history. So should have IU and Michigan State (who at one time never had a Sr. class that did not go to a Final Four). Stuff happens. Bad draws, bad luck, bad games and yes, bad coaching, all cause bad stuff.

I don't think Cal is the absolute best coach in the nation. He has flaws to be sure. I do think he is one of the best and so do most reasonable analysts of the game. He sure as hell is the best overall recruiter, motivator and marketer of the game. And UK is in contention for a national title (and sometimes favorite) more times than we are not. We are blessed, and spoiled. And one day that may all be gone.

Cal is worthy of praise and worthy of criticism and he is big enough to handle both. He drives me nuts with some decisions, and I get as frustrated and mad as the next guy when we screw up, but when I look at the whole picture I realize where we could be instead of where we are. Not bad.

Just my take.

Best damn description of Cal and the fan base I have ever seen, and describes me and how I feel exactly.

 

[KyFaninNC]

IMO, recruiting OAD's works some years and some years it doesn't. Being an old timer, I don't like the system, but with the NBA taking kids on potential more and more every year, you have to recruit the best players available. Every coach tries to do that, but can't. Bo Ryan chided us as being a "rent-a-player" school, but he would have never turn down a OAD player. Those type coaches that allude to that just can't get them.

Cal has his flaws and offensive scheming is a huge one. I wonder if all the yelling and screaming he does to "drive, drive, drive" has affected the players psyche of hitting outside shots consistently. Maybe, just maybe, a player knows Cal wants him to drive, but he pulls up to take an outside shot and the first thing that enters his mind is "I better make this or Coach is gonna be pissed I didn't drive".

Cal, overall, has been the best coach UK has ever had. The way he handles the "outside" things surrounding the program is remarkable.

No one in their right mind would want to go back to any coach we ever had, including Rupp.

And another excellent post that nails it. This good thread with discussion

 

[Bkocats]

And another excellent post that nails it. This good thread with discussion

this has been a good thread - thanks to everyone who contributed and stayed civil even in disagreement.

I don't think it makes anyone less of a fan if they criticize the coach and/or talk about issues with the team. A lot of good points have been made, and debated; there is quite a bit here to think about whether you agree or disagree with it.

Again, much appreciation for the input.

 

[BBUK]

this has been a good thread - thanks to everyone who contributed and stayed civil even in disagreement.

I don't think it makes anyone less of a fan if they criticize the coach and/or talk about issues with the team. A lot of good points have been made, and debated; there is quite a bit here to think about whether you agree or disagree with it.

Again, much appreciation for the input.

A bunch of jerks if you ask me.... jk jk...

 

[Bkocats]

A bunch of jerks if you ask me.... jk jk...

good thing we're not asking, huh?

...I kid, I kid..

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Good back and forth. Dont agree that 11 and 14 teams that made a run should be encouraging. This team doesn't have the overall skills to Likely make a run. No inside game and not enough shooting. A run this year would definitely be lightning in a bottle. To me only Dom has the potential to elevate the team a bit. Hope he gets healthy soon. It's yet to be seen that the OAD model can produce multiple championships. The runs the 11 and 14 teams made was the hard part. Losing to inferior UConn teams was and is still the headscratcher.

 

[Dream Team 13]

I agree that Cal doesn't know his team or is at least in denial about what they are.

One thing I'll put on Cal in particular is that he wants his center to work primarily back-to-the-basket and low post, yet recruited the #1 pick-and-roll/finesse big man in the class when guys that were better suited for the way he wants his guys to play were out there, several of whom wanted to come here. My message to him would simply be adjust and play to the strengths of what you have, which he's never had a problem doing previously, and next time go after the best player that best fits the style you want to run if it's that big of deal. Either way as a fan I just want to see good basketball and constant improvement, I couldn't care less about the style we have to use in order to achieve that.

While I agree, we have to have an inside presence to win. Skal must be that guy or we sink. It made KAT a complete player. His inside game made him the top pick. Skal isn't going to drive on people. He cannot be a jump shooter and we win.

Cal has proven that March is his time. Let him coach.

 

[Bkocats]

While I agree, we have to have an inside presence to win. Skal must be that guy or we sink. It made KAT a complete player. His inside game made him the top pick. Skal isn't going to drive on people. He cannot be a jump shooter and we win.

Cal has proven that March is his time. Let him coach.

As much as we would hope to be able to, we cannot compare Skal to KAT - or any of our other bigs who have come through. Skal may have the talent, but he doesn't have that drive that made the others as great as they are, even as freshmen. It's not Skal's fault; he is who is hes.

I believe Cal has some decent pieces; he just has to figure out how to best play them - and how to allow them to play. As has been mentioned repeatedly, Skal does not seem to have what it takes to be a back to basket kind of player - let him finesse it. He does have a shooters touch

Just speculation here - but wonder what would happen if Cal played Skal, Poy and Lee together? Let Poy and Lee do the defensive work. I know that leaves us with Murray and Ulis as our starting guards - but really not a bad combo. Probably not a smart thought - but more of a wonder what would happen.

 

[docholiday51]

As much as we would hope to be able to, we cannot compare Skal to KAT - or any of our other bigs who have come through. Skal may have the talent, but he doesn't have that drive that made the others as great as they are, even as freshmen. It's not Skal's fault; he is who is hes.

I believe Cal has some decent pieces; he just has to figure out how to best play them - and how to allow them to play. As has been mentioned repeatedly, Skal does not seem to have what it takes to be a back to basket kind of player - let him finesse it. He does have a shooters touch

Just speculation here - but wonder what would happen if Cal played Skal, Poy and Lee together? Let Poy and Lee do the defensive work. I know that leaves us with Murray and Ulis as our starting guards - but really not a bad combo. Probably not a smart thought - but more of a wonder what would happen.

When we got it to the offensive end we would be no worse off than we are now, we would be reduced to two ball handlers but with just as much offensive firepower. The other team would probably press us to death with that line up.

It would make Poy the 3, a position we wish he could play but in reality he can't

 

[Bkocats]

When we got it to the offensive end we would be no worse off than we are now, we would be reduced to two ball handlers but with just as much offensive firepower. The other team would probably press us to death with that line up.

It would make Poy the 3, a position we wish he could play but in reality he can't

thanks for the reply - you're right of course; it was just a random thought.

 

[docholiday51]

thanks for the reply - you're right of course; it was just a random thought.

I'm not sure there is a 'right' with this team as of now, your line-up is just as right as the one Cal is putting on the floor or one that anyone else is trying to think up

 

[UKWildcats#8]

I agree with Cut Nets we should have at least 2 more titles, but it didn't happen, some blame belongs at Cal's feet but some of it was just bad luck. Last year Cal was so sure he had the best team in the country that when he got the 4 point lead with 4 to go he thought he could go with what he had done all year and be o.k., he was wrong, Ulis and Booker should have seen the floor some in that time span. Cal does a lot right but he does make mistakes usually by letting his stubbornness get in the way of a sound decision to make changes

And Wisconsin would have scored every possession down the stretch with Ulis and Booker in together. Their D was horrendous. Plus, Ive seen Ulis led UK this year have some TERRIBLE possessions very similar to the Wisconsin game late in late game situations this year...the myth that Ulis and booker were some saviors is just another Rafter's Monday morning QB special that is not true. Best case is UK loses 81-74 instead of 71-64 as while maybe they luck out and score more with those 2 in, Wisconsin would have been an unstoppable force on offense the last 5 minutes...even more so than they were.

 

[docholiday51]

And Wisconsin would have scored every possession down the stretch with Ulis and Booker in together. Their D was horrendous. Plus, Ive seen Ulis led UK this year have some TERRIBLE possessions very similar to the Wisconsin game late in late game situations this year...the myth that Ulis and booker were some saviors is just another Rafter's Monday morning QB special that is not true. Best case is UK loses 81-74 instead of 71-64 as while maybe they luck out and score more with those 2 in, Wisconsin would have been an unstoppable force on offense the last 5 minutes...even more so than they were.

We will never know.