Cal only wants to do right by the players
- Thread starter wccat2969
- Start date
I don't know how anyone could watch that video of Fox and Bam in the locker room and say that Calipari teaches these kids to only be concerned about the NBA. They clearly cared about winning and losing.
The thing is this: it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. They don't have to choose between playing for Kentucky or playing for themselves. It can be a both/and. As they play their absolute best to compete for championships at Kentucky, they will also be showing themselves elite players, deserving of being drafted by an NBA team.
Do I wish our players would stick around longer? Of course I do. But I also understand that these players need to make wise decisions for their own futures and careers. I wish we could find more middle ground (between one and dones and just a bunch of stiffs), but I'm not criticizing our coach for recruiting the best players he can find every year.
The thing is this: it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. They don't have to choose between playing for Kentucky or playing for themselves. It can be a both/and. As they play their absolute best to compete for championships at Kentucky, they will also be showing themselves elite players, deserving of being drafted by an NBA team.
Do I wish our players would stick around longer? Of course I do. But I also understand that these players need to make wise decisions for their own futures and careers. I wish we could find more middle ground (between one and dones and just a bunch of stiffs), but I'm not criticizing our coach for recruiting the best players he can find every year.
Multiple players have publicly stated that he advised them to come back. Another uninformed fan.
How many Anthony Davis/MKG types have we had since then? That team also started two sophomores, one of which came back after being a projected top 20 pick, PLUS a senior who would have started on nearly every other team in the country that year.
Also, he should name one player that has spoken ill of Cal. I haven't even heard anything bad from Orton, Dodson, or Poole. One only I can think of is a walk-on (forget his name), who I think claimed Cal told him to go elsewhere that first year.
The same people who bitch about Cal and his method of recruiting and following the rules of the NCAA/NBA will be the same ones who are crying when he leaves. I can't believe people are not more appreciative of what we have here. There truly is not another coach I would replace Cal with. Not one. How many fan bases can say that? How many fan bases would love to have Cal and the players we get every year along with the tournament runs we have made? The number that wouldn't trade those things can be counted on one hand. SMH.
A
anon_013cn8yrfncx2
Guest
I suspect that Cal has a job description. I'll bet it doesn't indicate that his top priority is to get kids to the NBA.
Cal can say what he wants, doesn't really matter. As a college coach his legacy will be more about NCAA titles or lack thereof as opposed to number of kids he got into the NBA.
Remember when his tenure had 4 FFs in 5 years? Now were touting in 8 years, which is still good but his tenure isn't over. Cal desperately wants to win it all imo. He just doesn't know quite how to get it done. He's made his bed and now has to lie in it. The winning it all with mainly freshmen is an approach fraught with things that are out of his control, like the quality of each high school class.
I think this next year will shed a lot of light on the whole OAD thing. Many talking heads suggest that this year's HS class has JUST A FEW oad's and UK doesn't have any of them (yet). And Cal is after 2/3 guards none of which are oad. Be interesting to see what's happening draft-wise in exactly 12 months from now.
Cal has the best job in college bb. He can take the heat that comes with it. Why some on here always contend there should be ZERO heat just baffles me.
Cal can say what he wants, doesn't really matter. As a college coach his legacy will be more about NCAA titles or lack thereof as opposed to number of kids he got into the NBA.
Remember when his tenure had 4 FFs in 5 years? Now were touting in 8 years, which is still good but his tenure isn't over. Cal desperately wants to win it all imo. He just doesn't know quite how to get it done. He's made his bed and now has to lie in it. The winning it all with mainly freshmen is an approach fraught with things that are out of his control, like the quality of each high school class.
I think this next year will shed a lot of light on the whole OAD thing. Many talking heads suggest that this year's HS class has JUST A FEW oad's and UK doesn't have any of them (yet). And Cal is after 2/3 guards none of which are oad. Be interesting to see what's happening draft-wise in exactly 12 months from now.
Cal has the best job in college bb. He can take the heat that comes with it. Why some on here always contend there should be ZERO heat just baffles me.
I don't really know how to answer your question except showing the espn top five players since the 2011 recruiting class.
2012: Nerlens, Shabazz, Isaiah Austin, Kaleb Tarczewski, Kyle Anderson
2013: Wiggins, Jabari, Randle, Aaron Gordon, Andrew Harrison
2014: Okafor, Myles Turner, Cliff Alexander, Tyus Jones, Mudiay (Towns 9th, Justin Jackson 8th, Theo Pinson 10)
2015: Ben Simmons, Skal, Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Henry Ellenson
2016: Giles, Jackson, Tatum, Ball, Bam
I'm all for achieving dreams and getting paid.
However, I feel like the OAD culture lead by Cal makes it seem as if kids sticking around is doing wrong. I've never liked or agreed with that.
Also, it's such a very small group of players that have a legit shot at making a roster and even fewer make it barely a year removed from their prom. So he's literally taking up the banner and leading a movement for the extreme few.
"Well if guys return it may hurt his street cred, he'll miss out on kids down the road, and other teams will get the talent..." Bull Sh**.
Dudes returning, balling out, and maybe hanging banners is not going to destroy Cal's cred or deter most future ballers, maybe a few selfish ones concerned about run and stats.
If AD, or KAT stay a couple years who gives a rats ass where the PFs of the next class or two goes...If Dakari returning means missing out on Skal, so be it. If Tyler Ulis finishing out four years means no Fox or whomever is coming next year, I'll take my chances with Ulis.
For all those concerned about kids getting paid, all those dudes mentioned would still get paid if even they stayed 5 years.
However, I feel like the OAD culture lead by Cal makes it seem as if kids sticking around is doing wrong. I've never liked or agreed with that.
Also, it's such a very small group of players that have a legit shot at making a roster and even fewer make it barely a year removed from their prom. So he's literally taking up the banner and leading a movement for the extreme few.
"Well if guys return it may hurt his street cred, he'll miss out on kids down the road, and other teams will get the talent..." Bull Sh**.
Dudes returning, balling out, and maybe hanging banners is not going to destroy Cal's cred or deter most future ballers, maybe a few selfish ones concerned about run and stats.
If AD, or KAT stay a couple years who gives a rats ass where the PFs of the next class or two goes...If Dakari returning means missing out on Skal, so be it. If Tyler Ulis finishing out four years means no Fox or whomever is coming next year, I'll take my chances with Ulis.
For all those concerned about kids getting paid, all those dudes mentioned would still get paid if even they stayed 5 years.
Meanwhile they've missed out on 5 years salary and risked getting injured and diminishing their earning potential considerably.
You know, college coaches get fined or suspended for things like that. You cannot directly call out referees in pressers. Cal has many times let his feeling on officiating be known, but only as far as he can go without getting in trouble for it. Besides, it's a very bad image to whine about officiating too much.
Things aren't fair and any team simply has to play to where officiating won't cost you a game. For example, in our loss to UNC we could have hit a few more shots and made a few less turnovers, all of which we could have done without hindrance from the refs, and had a big enough lead to still win. Then we are winners of a game and complaining about how the refs almost costing us a win.
Cal takes the high road most times and I for one am glad he does.
Just what is that heat supposed to be? Hand-wringing over not having more titles? Calls for his job? Demands that he defend his approach? Just not clear what we are supposed to be doing to apply that heat.
As are 99% of all CBB fans, teams, and their coaches.
Never overlook the Darius, Dom, and Derek factor.
Cal may get the ideal team this season by default. If he strikes out on Mo Bam
and Knox, signs two 4* guards, and has to play Hump and SKJ on a regular
basics, he just might coach "up" some players that will stay.
Maybe not so many OADs in '18. Could add 2-3 elites for '19 and hit it big.
(Bagley, Quickly, Zion W)
and Knox, signs two 4* guards, and has to play Hump and SKJ on a regular
basics, he just might coach "up" some players that will stay.
Maybe not so many OADs in '18. Could add 2-3 elites for '19 and hit it big.
(Bagley, Quickly, Zion W)
You cannot name ONE player he told to go that shouldn't have.
In fact, only 2 have been made public - Cousins and MKG.
This narrative is a running lie and everyone here who repeats it can never tell us the players who were pushed out.
We know that Lamb, Teague, Dakari, and the twins were given information that they were not going to be high draft picks.
Bledsoe, Lamb, Teague, Dakari and Booker were major surprises, as it pertained to recruiting for the following season.
If Cal thinks players are returning then the recruits do as well, thus they haven't been recruited or already signed by the time the draft comes around leaving us with a 2013 season without Lamb & Teague and 2016 without Booker and Dakari.
Dakari was told emphatically he should stay by multiple people.
The only legitimate arguments anyone can make regarding Cal's recruiting strategy and the OAD are these two:
1. Players that are given negative draft info and decide to leave anyway resulting in missing pieces the following season.
2. The unintended culture that returning is a sign of failure. Cal has repeatedly said each player is on their own time table as to when they are ready to leave for the draft.
Last edited:
When people use the word heat it is usually a reference to a coach keeping their job.
If that is how you are using the word then you are mindnumbingly out of touch.
If you are referring to basic criticism, I will not disagree that we have some sunshine pumpers on both boards that think our coaches do no wrong.
But there has been plenty of criticism:
Zone Defense
Stall Ball
Not calling timeouts
Playing the twins
My only issue is that he should be keeping most of these kids for 2 years instead of one! Even kids who are future superstars in the NBA, like Fox and Monk , are STILL not ready to go. Both would improve dramatically by staying another year. By going this year, they are committing themselves to at least a year in D-league. They may be lottery picks, but they still won't be ready to start for any NBA team. Why not stay at UK for another year???
So many of you are wrong about the OAD strategy which has brought us all of this success.
The titles "we should have won" were lost due to the following reasons:
Poor shooting (10, 11) same thing in 1984 with 50 seniors
Terrible referees
Injuries (14, 15)
Cal's coaching (10, 14, 15)
Nothing to do with the OAD players.
Players leaving that shouldn't or were unexpected has been a major issue.
2011 Bledsoe (surprise) Lamb committed 2 days after Eric declared.
2013 Team was supposed to look like this:
Noel
Poy
Archie
Lamb
Teague
2016 Team was supposed to look like this:
Skal, Dakari
Poy
Briscoe
Booker
Ulis
(Also had a large number of misses due to coaches using the platoon against us)
The titles "we should have won" were lost due to the following reasons:
Poor shooting (10, 11) same thing in 1984 with 50 seniors
Terrible referees
Injuries (14, 15)
Cal's coaching (10, 14, 15)
Nothing to do with the OAD players.
Players leaving that shouldn't or were unexpected has been a major issue.
2011 Bledsoe (surprise) Lamb committed 2 days after Eric declared.
2013 Team was supposed to look like this:
Noel
Poy
Archie
Lamb
Teague
2016 Team was supposed to look like this:
Skal, Dakari
Poy
Briscoe
Booker
Ulis
(Also had a large number of misses due to coaches using the platoon against us)
First of all, Cal did not create the OAD culture. The NBA and the change in high school athletics did. Second, he does not lead the OAD culture. He has stated many times that he hates the rule. Why can't people like you understand that. What he does do is recruit the best players available and unlike most coaches, succeeds at getting them. Any banner he is taking up is one of trying to get the rule changed.
We get it, you would rather have these guys for more than one year. We all would. However, that is not reality. We are not in 1990. Times have changed and all Cal has done is adapt to the rules. He is not pushing these kids out the door. Name one kid he pushed out. The rule in place is not Cal's rule, why are you bashing him for it?
Very few at age 19 are ready for anything.
But if your argument is they could become better basketball players then that makes no sense whatsoever.
Kids that are guaranteed high draft picks not only get guaranteed money they work with professionals 10 hours a day vs 10 hours a week in college.
See Alex and Dakari for examples.
The kids that should not go are those not guaranteed a solid 1st round opportunity. These kids risk having no guaranteed money and thus lack of skills training. The D league does a lot skill wise but getting called up is tough and much easier via the draft.
Correct....which is why she obviously didn't get a boner, that's why I thought it was funny.
....unless my reading comprehension sucks, which is entirely possible.
A
anon_013cn8yrfncx2
Guest
When I use a word it means exactly what I intend it to mean. I didn't even SUGGEST he should be getting any heat or criticism. But there are some who feel the need to shoot down every criticism he gets. He can handle it but some folks on here can't. Obviously Cal has not been, is not now, and likely never will be on the hot seat coaching wise at UK.
Those criticism examples are pretty lame. Not recruiting shooters/basketball players as opposed to 5-star athletes would be more germane; or playing the OADs over others not perceived as OADS.
There should be a lot of grousing on this board over the lack of NCAA titles. Others have won multiples recently. Even UL has 1 recently. I've never seen any post calling for Cal to be gone but the goal of titles is very worthy of debate. I, for one, will never console myself with Elite 8s, FFs, and NBA selections. In 2 years there will be 80 years of NCAA tourneys. Some say that's 1 every 10 years so relax. Blame whoever you want, but if we don't win it all next year that will be 1 title in the last 20 years. We've had droughts before and will again but I will never be happy about it or try to rationalize it.
Wildly ignorant and selfish post.
The answer to why not is 6 zeros, genius. There will be 2 commas used in their bank statement by this time next year that wouldn't be there if they stayed at UK. The odds of either ever playing a single game in the D-League are close to nil, and there is absolutely 0 evidence that playing longer in college does anything to help the development of players. A player very well might be more prepared for the pros if he's older, but he's not getting paid if he waits.
And the idea that a guy should come out of the draft and be a top-level NBA starter is antiquated. We're talking about a 12-15 year career for top players. There's a cap on salaries for the first 3 years of a player's career, so waiting a little while for a guy to develop isn't killing anyone. The #1 overall pick in the draft doesn't even get what's now the AVERAGE NBA salary.
"it means exactly what I intend it to mean"
Thanks for the clarification....
We complain about recruiting shooters so much on here that it is a running joke.
So you are wrong about that. Just because a poster disagreed with you doesnt mean they are Cal's protector.
I love the entitled "if we dont win it all next year..."
We didnt win it from 58 to 78 did that kill the program?
We didnt win it from 78 until 96 or 96 to 2012...
If you can only be happy with titles then you are a miserable old fart. It is just a game played by other people's kids...
You can tell by the reaction of Bam and Fox that they really cared and tried hard.
We all want to win titles, we should have won more with Cal, but just like in 1984, we had games that we didnt shoot well, we had injuries in 2 others, bad calls or noncalls, and Cal has made some mistakes in 10, 14, and 15 in my opinion.
But if you cannot appreciate the run the guy has us on then that's you being petty.
Cal will be gone one day, and we may end up like most other schools that dont have a real shot 6 out of 8 years. I'm sure you will be fun to be around then.
Do you seriously believe that Cal does not care about winning titles?
As far as I'm concerned this is the end of the discussion in terms of the correct assessment. The intervals between contending teams is less now than any time I recall.
We have folks blaming refs for affecting games then in the same breath blaming Cal for not winning with freshmen. The thing I see in common is blame, not objective assessment and appreciation of the program.
Exactly. It's called having skin in the game.
