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Ulis2Towns said:
Coaches don't really develop big guys when they are only on campus for 1 year.
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This just isn't true.

Ever see Towns play in HS? He really wasn't a back-to-the-basket player. He'd float out around the perimeter, shoot jumpers, shy away from contact. Cousins was the same way.

What coaches can do at this level is partly fundamental (playing with your back to the basket is the hardest thing in the game to do), but more than that it's the attitude. The toughness. Convincing these guys that they have to rebound and play mean rather than float away from the basket. They've got to be in the thick of it down there. I think this is what pissed Cal off the most with Skal: he wanted no part of the paint. Towns, Cousins, even Dakari--you could see the growth from day one to the end of the year. Dakari went from a guy who couldn't stay on the court to being able to fill in for WCS by March.

The coaches--Payne particularly--have done wonders for some of these big players.
 
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Ulis2Towns said:
You guys make me embarrassed to be a Wildcat sometimes; the level of critical thinking and logic has to improve around here.

HS Rankings measure college potential and not pro potential. Okafor was rated #1 out of HS and ended up being a !st Team All-American his only year at Duke. Everyone acknowledged that KAT had a higher ceiling than Okafor even before they both started playing college ball and once he blew up in the NCAAT, it became clear that the downside to taking Towns was very small.

Coaches don't really develop big guys when they are only on campus for 1 year.

KAT, Noel, Randle, Davis and Cousins would be studs even if they went to Kansas or Duke and you all know it. In fact, the Minnesota coaching staff gets a lot of credit in Towns' tremendous growth his Rookie Year.

Cal can take credit in developing bigs like WCS and Harrelson though while Coach K can hang his hat on guys like Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee who has have far surpassed expectations in the NBA.

Bolden can't go wrong here but I think he"ll get some more playing time at UK so I hope he chooses us.
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Did you see any improvement in KAT, Noel, Randle, Davis or Cousins in their 1 year at UK? Also, Towns has been in Minnesota for 1 year, so why are you so willing to give their coaching staff so much credit while saying coaches don't really develop big guys in 1 year. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself with those 2 statements.

One more question, who did you think improved more in their 1 year, Towns or Okafor?
 
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Ulis2Towns said:
You guys make me embarrassed to be a Wildcat sometimes; the level of critical thinking and logic has to improve around here.

HS Rankings measure college potential and not pro potential. Okafor was rated #1 out of HS and ended up being a !st Team All-American his only year at Duke. Everyone acknowledged that KAT had a higher ceiling than Okafor even before they both started playing college ball and once he blew up in the NCAAT, it became clear that the downside to taking Towns was very small.

Coaches don't really develop big guys when they are only on campus for 1 year.

KAT, Noel, Randle, Davis and Cousins would be studs even if they went to Kansas or Duke and you all know it. In fact, the Minnesota coaching staff gets a lot of credit in Towns' tremendous growth his Rookie Year.

Cal can take credit in developing bigs like WCS and Harrelson though while Coach K can hang his hat on guys like Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee who has have far surpassed expectations in the NBA.

Bolden can't go wrong here but I think he"ll get some more playing time at UK so I hope he chooses us.
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For someone questioning our critical thinking and logic, you make a pretty dumb statement. To say that don't really develop players in that year span is just absurd. Of course they do not fully develop but many players have developed significantly in their single year of college. So, because KAT had a "higher ceiling" than Okafor means that he didn't develop when he was here? Not everyone said he had a higher ceiling than Okafor either. There were some but many people thought he would be a good pro but I'm not sure there were many who thought he would be this good already. A lot of that has to do with Cal and UK. Remember, he didn't play much in the summers. Nobody had KAT at the top of the draft board coming out of high school. He worked himself up that board and over took Okafor as he developed through the year here and developed his way into the consensus #1 pick. Again, we all know they don't fully develop in a single year but to say they don't "really" develop is just crazy.
 
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Lumpy 2 said:
Did you see any improvement in KAT, Noel, Randle, Davis or Cousins in their 1 year at UK? Also, Towns has been in Minnesota for 1 year, so why are you so willing to give their coaching staff so much credit while saying coaches don't really develop big guys in 1 year. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself with those 2 statements.

One more question, who did you think improved more in their 1 year, Towns or Okafor?
Click to expand...
Hey Lumpy, I feel like all those bigs did improve in their 1 year in college like most bigs naturally do but they would have had a similar level of development at other schools with good coaches.

We got lucky with two unique studs in KAT and Davis since they were both natural guards when they were younger who had insane growth spurts and then were able to muscle their way down low.

I credit the Minnesota coaching staff since in the pros, the coaches spend a lot more time with the players compared to in college where the players have academic obligations as well. The TWolves strength staff and assistant coaches into the stud he is now as he has grown a ridiculous amount since when he left UK.

I wish Coach Cal could have utilized KAT more vs. Wisconsin whether on the perimeter or down in the block because Wisconsin clearly didn't have an answer for him but oh well.

As for Towns and Okafor, I thought Okafor became a much better defender towards the end of college when he was terrible at the beginning. He was terrible to begin with but was adequate towards the end of the year.

Jah was 1st Team All-American in college while KAT was 2nd Team All-American so Okafor was actually considered better in college. KAT then took off in the NBA.
 
I think at this level development is more about the player than the coach. Both coaches know what they're doing. But, I do believe that Calipari has proven that he will give freshmen a longer leash than any coach in college basketball. That should mean a lot to a recruit. You can have bad games and still work your way through them on the floor with Cal. K is quicker to put you on the bench.
 
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Ulis2Towns said:
You guys make me embarrassed to be a Wildcat sometimes; the level of critical thinking and logic has to improve around here.

HS Rankings measure college potential and not pro potential. Okafor was rated #1 out of HS and ended up being a !st Team All-American his only year at Duke. Everyone acknowledged that KAT had a higher ceiling than Okafor even before they both started playing college ball and once he blew up in the NCAAT, it became clear that the downside to taking Towns was very small.

Coaches don't really develop big guys when they are only on campus for 1 year.

KAT, Noel, Randle, Davis and Cousins would be studs even if they went to Kansas or Duke and you all know it. In fact, the Minnesota coaching staff gets a lot of credit in Towns' tremendous growth his Rookie Year.

Cal can take credit in developing bigs like WCS and Harrelson though while Coach K can hang his hat on guys like Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee who has have far surpassed expectations in the NBA.

Bolden can't go wrong here but I think he"ll get some more playing time at UK so I hope he chooses us.
Click to expand...




Posts like this make me embarrassed to be a fellow poster..

I believe you have another user name here, good luck with this one as the previous one probably lost all of its credibility.

Keep pumping K and Self out of your ass.... "Wildcat fan"...
 
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RamHard said:
Davis, Randle or Towns could have played at Pikeville college and would have been lottery picks.
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They would have attended more classes in that one year at those schools than any UNC player the last 18 years...

tumblr_lvsma3b6vZ1qm9rypo1_1280.jpg
 
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As far as Cal's development of KAT is concerned.........does anyone else remember the article written last season interviewing his high school coach and some of his former team mates? They were surprised how much he had improved and what a different type player he had become at UK.
 
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brianpoe said:
McCants showed his transcripts, why wont anyone else? What happened?

He said he never went to class but was honor roll, what happened?

Carolina Way - worst cheaters in college sports history.
Click to expand...

I agree Carolina cheated, do you really think that all the oad could really get in college. They don't even care about doing the work, it basketball that's it.
 
RamHard said:
I agree Carolina cheated, do you really think that all the oad could really get in college. They don't even care about doing the work, it basketball that's it.
Click to expand...


They may not care but at UK and other colleges they actually do the work anyway.

You guys have players there 4 years that dont care and dont do the work.

AND YOUR STAFF SUPPORTED IT.

You should be ashamed to talk shit on a DIV III board right now.
 
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Ulis2Towns said:
Hey Lumpy, I feel like all those bigs did improve in their 1 year in college like most bigs naturally do but they would have had a similar level of development at other schools with good coaches.

We got lucky with two unique studs in KAT and Davis since they were both natural guards when they were younger who had insane growth spurts and then were able to muscle their way down low.

I credit the Minnesota coaching staff since in the pros, the coaches spend a lot more time with the players compared to in college where the players have academic obligations as well. The TWolves strength staff and assistant coaches into the stud he is now as he has grown a ridiculous amount since when he left UK.

I wish Coach Cal could have utilized KAT more vs. Wisconsin whether on the perimeter or down in the block because Wisconsin clearly didn't have an answer for him but oh well.

As for Towns and Okafor, I thought Okafor became a much better defender towards the end of college when he was terrible at the beginning. He was terrible to begin with but was adequate towards the end of the year.

Jah was 1st Team All-American in college while KAT was 2nd Team All-American so Okafor was actually considered better in college. KAT then took off in the NBA.
Click to expand...
The Minnesota coaching staff must have been miracle workers since Towns was rookie of the month in his first month in the league, and his second and every month since. Makes me wonder why they got fired as soon as the season was over.

You are probably one of a few who saw improvement in Okafor's defense. I didn't see much improvement in any part of his game. He was a good scoring big man who didn't play defense when he got to Duke and he was the same player when he left. Towns came to UK thinking he was a perimeter player and Cal forcing him to become an inside player made him the #1 pick in the draft. If you can't see that, then I'm embarrassed for you.
 
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RamHard said:
name a oad that came back and got a degree. Its all about money, everyone knows it,Ncaa is a joke.
Click to expand...

Hell, John Wall (Kentucky's first one and done) still takes online classes with Kentucky when he can fit it into his schedule. Really takes an effort to go to school with an NBA career, especially as a star player that's expected to continuously improve and carry his team year in and year out. Helluva lot more effort than you'd find a UNC*** basketball player putting into getting a degree while they're actually in college.

Then comes the simple question; what would you prefer? A college degree, or a 5 year, $85 million contract doing the thing that you grew up dreaming of doing?

Actually, now that I think about it, what good is a college degree if not for you to get a good job, and make good money? Pride?

"Hey, I earned a college degree" doesn't even sound remotely as appealing as "Hey, I'm a superstar in the NBA"
 
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Rhavicc said:
Hell, John Wall (Kentucky's first one and done) still takes online classes with Kentucky when he can fit it into his schedule. Really takes an effort to go to school with an NBA career, especially as a star player that's expected to continuously improve and carry his team year in and year out. Helluva lot more effort than you'd find a UNC*** basketball player putting into getting a degree while they're actually in college.

Then comes the simple question; what would you prefer? A college degree, or a 5 year, $85 million contract doing the thing that you grew up dreaming of doing?

Actually, now that I think about it, what good is a college degree if not for you to get a good job, and make good money? Pride?

"Hey, I earned a college degree" doesn't even sound remotely as appealing as "Hey, I'm a superstar in the NBA"
Click to expand...




What good is a college degree from UNC received by any UNC player?
 
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RamHard said:
name a oad that came back and got a degree. Its all about money, everyone knows it,Ncaa is a joke.
Click to expand...
This Tar Hole isn't quite as stupid as I thought. In principle, I agree.

The rub for us as UK fans is that they've been revered and admired- and untouchable- while perpetuating their sham, along with cornering the market on smug, sanctimonious douchebaggery as a fanbase. On the other hand, we've been broad-brushed as villains, and paid a heavy price for it 25 years ago.

Now, it turns out they've been sitting on the mother of all cheating scandals... and that's why we want to see them hang high, and good riddance if they do.
 
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Elliott Tim said:
I apologize if this has been posted. I can't believe they give the edge to Duke because of K's ability to develop bigs. Does this mean Towns was an anomaly?

Duke and Kentucky are fighting for 5-star center Marques Bolden. Who will he pick?
By Ricky O'Donnell@SBN_Ricky on Apr 20, 2016, 12:16p 4

usa-today-9213675.0.jpg

Brian Spurlock-USA TODAY Sports

The Blue Devils or Wildcats? There's no wrong answer for the top uncommitted player in the class of 2016.

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Spring grassroots season is officially upon us, which means the college basketball coaches of America are already out on the road recruiting for the class of 2017. That does not mean the class of 2016 is entirely tied up. In Marques Bolden and Jarrett Allen, there are still two five-star big men on the market capable of making an immediate impact next season.

Both are from Texas, both were named McDonald's All-Americans and both played in the Nike Hoops Summit. Only one of them is about to choose between the sport's two premier programs to decide the country's No. 1 recruiting class (at least, according to 247 Sports).


Duke and Kentucky are going down to the wire for Bolden, a 6'10 center with long arms (7'6 wingspan!) and soft hands. Bolden is considered the best low post scorer in the class of 2016, and there's a good chance he would start from day one at either school, despite the fact that both teams are already stacked in the front court.

Think Jahlil Okafor Light in terms of skill set. Bolden is like a blast from the past, a skilled big who does his damage with his back to the basket. Surround that type of player with the right personnel and it can have a devastating impact on college basketball.

Which begs the question: would Bolden fit better in Lexington or Durham?

The case for Duke
Cfhdj6IWIAANKUv.0.jpg
<img alt="harry-bolden" src="https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/qr...orus_asset/file/6364653/Cfhdj6IWIAANKUv.0.jpg">


Duke commit Harry Giles and Bolden at USA Basketball camp (via Paul Biancardi)

Potential lineup

C Marques Bolden (freshman) / Chase Jeter (sophomore)


PF Harry Giles (freshman) / Amile Jefferson (senior)

SF Jayson Tatum (freshman) / Matt Jones (senior)

SG Grayson Allen (junior) / Luke Kennard (sophomore)

PG Frank Jackson (freshman) / Jones

Mike Krzyzewski has some tough lineup choices in front of him. Does he really want to start four freshman? Matt Jones and Amile Jefferson are very good veteran role players who have played with a half-decade of one-and-dones, from Jabari Parker to Okafor and Justise Winslow to Brandon Ingram to Tatum and Giles next year.

Getting everyone to buy in -- from his five-star freshmen to his upperclassmen -- is going to be Coach K's biggest challenge. There are only so many shots and so many minutes to go around on a team this deep and talented.

Bolden's commitment would further complicate matters. On one hand, Coach K proved he can build a championship team around a skilled low post scorer when the Blue Devils won it all in 2015 with Okafor as the hub of everything. On the other hand, Coach K typically prefers only playing one traditional big man at a time -- and Duke already has the more highly touted Giles slotted for big minutes in the front court.

Giles isn't the back to the basket scorer Bolden is, but he's much more athletic. Giles is also recovering from the second torn ACL of his career, so Bolden would be great insurance for Duke if Giles doesn't bounce back from that injury immediately.

All of this would amount to a great problem for Duke to have. The question is if it's a good problem for Bolden.

The case for Kentucky
CfkQ0ufUsAQ6xpn.0.jpg
<img alt="fox3" src="https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Pb...orus_asset/file/6364943/CfkQ0ufUsAQ6xpn.0.jpg">


Bolden with Kentucky commit De'Aaron Fox

Potential lineup

C Marques Bolden (freshman) / Isaac Humphries (sophomore) / Tai Wynyard (sophomore)

PF Bam Adebayo (freshman) / Derek Willis (senior) / Sacha Killeya-Jones (freshman)

SF Wenyen Gabriel (freshman) / Charles Matthews (sophomore)

SG Malik Monk (freshman) / Dominique Hawkins (senior)

PG De'Aaron Fox (freshman) / Isaiah Briscoe (sophomore)

Again: John Calipari loves his five-star freshmen, but is he really going to roll with an all-freshman starting lineup? If Briscoe returns to school, it will be fascinating to see if he gets the nominal small forward spot like last year or if that goes to Gabriel, an athletic 6'9 freshman who would likely be best used at the four.

It gets even more interesting up front. Derek Willis' shooting was critical for the Wildcats last season. If Calipari starts Adebayo at the five and Willis at the four, how many minutes could Bolden really expect to see with some many other talented front court options on the bench?

What Kentucky really needs is a small forward who can shoot. This has been a blindspot for Calipari in recruiting for a few seasons, dating back (at least) since UK had to shoehorn Trey Lyles into the three next to Karl-Anthony Towns and Willie Cauley-Stein in 2015.

There isn't a player like that left on the board after Terrance Ferguson picked Arizona last week. Instead, Calipari will just have to stockpile big men again. And make no mistake: he'd have the best collection of bigs in the country with Bolden.

The verdict
Bolden can't go wrong either way. Duke and Kentucky are the two top teams in the country with or without him. That's part of what makes this decision so compelling: the No. 16 player in the class of 2016 (according to Rivals) should be able to walk and start at most programs. That's possible but not promised at both of his options.

In the end, we'll give the edge to Duke if only because Coach K showed he knows how to optimize the talents of a skilled low post scorer when Okafor was in school. Kentucky should be fine either way.

* * *

Best March Madness Coach: Is it Mike Krzyzewski or John Calipari?
Click to expand...
Calipari has 3 of his ex big men Cousins, Davis & Towns averaging double doubles. Krzyzewski has none. Nuff Said.
 
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TopCatCal said:
Calipari has 3 of his ex big men Cousins, Davis & Towns averaging double doubles. Krzyzewski has none. Nuff Said.
Click to expand...

4. You forgot Randle.

And 2 of them were basically rookies. That says a lot about now well these guys are prepared upon entering the league. Though I think Jeff Webster deserves a ton of credit for Randle, playing for Cal certainly didn't hurt.

Towns and Davis are likely Hall of Famers IMO. Cousins could be too. His ability is certainly on that level. Just not sure he'll win enough in Sacremento. Maybe if he's a major contributor on a gold medal Olympic team that will be enough paired with his currently gaudy career statistics.
 
RamHard said:
name a oad that came back and got a degree. Its all about money, everyone knows it,Ncaa is a joke.
Click to expand...
Yea, the NCAA is now a joke. They weren't a joke when they were sanctioning everyone else. Now that UNC**is getting ready to be reamed, suddenly they don't know what they're doing. Better get back in your foxhole, cause it's coming.
the-terminator-linda-hamilton-sarah-connor.jpg
 
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Ulis2Towns said:
You guys make me embarrassed to be a Wildcat sometimes; the level of critical thinking and logic has to improve around here.

HS Rankings measure college potential and not pro potential. Okafor was rated #1 out of HS and ended up being a !st Team All-American his only year at Duke. Everyone acknowledged that KAT had a higher ceiling than Okafor even before they both started playing college ball and once he blew up in the NCAAT, it became clear that the downside to taking Towns was very small.

Coaches don't really develop big guys when they are only on campus for 1 year.

KAT, Noel, Randle, Davis and Cousins would be studs even if they went to Kansas or Duke and you all know it. In fact, the Minnesota coaching staff gets a lot of credit in Towns' tremendous growth his Rookie Year.

Cal can take credit in developing bigs like WCS and Harrelson though while Coach K can hang his hat on guys like Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee who has have far surpassed expectations in the NBA.

Bolden can't go wrong here but I think he"ll get some more playing time at UK so I hope he chooses us.
Click to expand...
Probably the worst take I have ever seen. Yeah let's just disregard that each one of the players you've named has been quoted as saying Cal helped out their game tremendously
 
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RamHard said:
name a oad that came back and got a degree. Its all about money, everyone knows it,Ncaa is a joke.
Click to expand...

UK OAD basketball players contracts (degrees) worth millions after one year...............
UNC players with (hollow) Carolina Way four year degrees worth $0.79 at KINKO'S...............

Next?
 
Lumpy 2 said:
The Minnesota coaching staff must have been miracle workers since Towns was rookie of the month in his first month in the league, and his second and every month since. Makes me wonder why they got fired as soon as the season was over.

You are probably one of a few who saw improvement in Okafor's defense. I didn't see much improvement in any part of his game. He was a good scoring big man who didn't play defense when he got to Duke and he was the same player when he left. Towns came to UK thinking he was a perimeter player and Cal forcing him to become an inside player made him the #1 pick in the draft. If you can't see that, then I'm embarrassed for you.
Click to expand...

kzryzewski played a zone with okafor stationary in the middle of it and suddenly took issue with sulaimon's raping rather than address okafor's lack of effort

okafor came to college with a subpar work ethic and left with a subpar work ethic

he got NO coaching. he was pimped by a scumbag hypocrite opportunist
 
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brianpoe said:
They would have attended more classes in that one year at those schools than any UNC player the last 18 years...

tumblr_lvsma3b6vZ1qm9rypo1_1280.jpg
Click to expand...


This is my favorite all time block by a UK player in college... watched it live, on video and I STILL can't believe it. The one Prince made on Reggie Miller takes the pro-title for sure.
 
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