Black cloud has hung over Derrick Rose almost his whole career. Karma?

[Louis_Skunt]

Could it be karma for letting Cal take 100% of the media and social blame for the Memphis thing?

Its not as bad as it used to be, but for a while, Cal had something written up about him weekly insinuating he cheated.

What I like about Cal: He took the WHOLE blame. The NCAA completely cleared him from any wrong doings or knowledge of anything involving Rose cheating on his SAT's, and he takes full blame in interviews. And when I say "full blame", I mean he doesn't argue it. NOT ONCE has he went into detail or said "I didn't do anything wrong". He could've easily brought up Rose and thrown him under the bus to FOREVER take the blame off him, but no, he gets crucified and absorbs it all in. I have to admire a guy who takes a deadly bullet for a player.

What I don't like about Rose: He could've been more public about the situation and taken the blame. He could've accepted it publicly and apologized. We have NBA and NFL stars beating woman, on drugs, carrying guns, and they all become forgiven----Rose could've easily have helped his college coach and took him out of hot water, and already been forgiven and forgotten....could've helped Cal's career.

I'm not a huge believer in karma, but one has to wonder in this case.

By the way, Larry Brown was hammered by the NCAA today. What did he say in his first interview? He blamed the person involved immediately in effort to clear his name. Not Cal, I think you have to admire that.

 

[Xception]

Maybe Rose didn't do anything wrong and doesn't feel the need to take any blame . The people blaming Cal aren't interested in any other outcome , they ignore details because it doesn't fit their agenda otherwise .

 

[WeWant9]

The guy is paid. Playing or not, I'm sure he lives a very comfortable life.

Besides, people still hated Cal before Rose. I doubt it would've changed much, he's just that polarizing of a figure.

 

[Smashcat]

Could it be karma for letting Cal take 100% of the media and social blame for the Memphis thing?

Its not as bad as it used to be, but for a while, Cal had something written up about him weekly insinuating he cheated.

What I like about Cal: He took the WHOLE blame. The NCAA completely cleared him from any wrong doings or knowledge of anything involving Rose cheating on his SAT's, and he takes full blame in interviews. And when I say "full blame", I mean he doesn't argue it. NOT ONCE has he went into detail or said "I didn't do anything wrong". He could've easily brought up Rose and thrown him under the bus to FOREVER take the blame off him, but no, he gets crucified and absorbs it all in. I have to admire a guy who takes a deadly bullet for a player.

What I don't like about Rose: He could've been more public about the situation and taken the blame. He could've accepted it publicly and apologized. We have NBA and NFL stars beating woman, on drugs, carrying guns, and they all become forgiven----Rose could've easily have helped his college coach and took him out of hot water, and already been forgiven and forgotten....could've helped Cal's career.

I'm not a huge believer in karma, but one has to wonder in this case.

By the way, Larry Brown was hammered by the NCAA today. What did he say in his first interview? He blamed the person involved immediately in effort to clear his name. Not Cal, I think you have to admire that.

If there was such a thing as sports star karma, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods would be living in their cars.

 

[JWat_]

Rose is one of the nicest superstars in the NBA, and that has been reiterated by most anyone who has ever been near him.

His career has been absolutely snake bitten with injuries. But for a kid like him to make it out of Englewood to become a multi-millionaire, I'm happy for him regardless of whether he plays another game of professionally - and he will be back in a few months time.

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Maybe Rose didn't do anything wrong and doesn't feel the need to take any blame . The people blaming Cal aren't interested in any other outcome , they ignore details because it doesn't fit their agenda otherwise .

Ehhh.. Didn't do anything wrong? Cheating on your SAT and having a final four banner ripped from your teammates seems like grounds for wrongdoings to me.

 

[Orville Boggs]

Ehhh.. Didn't do anything wrong? Cheating on your SAT and having a final four banner ripped from your teammates seems like grounds for wrongdoings to me.

Startling post about him on TMZ.com. Evidently he stiff's his chick's with buying the sex toy's for himself and the boy's to enjoy. I seriously doubt this dude worries much about SAT's, ACT's, GED's, Banner's being removed, who gets the shit-end of the deal etc. as long as he gets paid.

Wasn't he just in the news talking about wanting a raise. I'd trade this fool to the Knicks for their next 3 year 1st round draft picks.

 

[Xception]

Ehhh.. Didn't do anything wrong? Cheating on your SAT and having a final four banner ripped from your teammates seems like grounds for wrongdoings to me.

You suffer from the same plight as the ones who blame Cal and Rose to begin with , are you stupid or intentionally trying to ignore details ? The NCAA did not prove that Rose cheated , the testing agency didn't prove he cheated . The testing agency sent Rose a letter to his former address to which he didn't reply and they nullified the test score because he didn't respond . Maybe you don't try to find the truth and just blindly eat whatever the Goodmans of the world feed you , they count and rely on that simple thought process . You simply aren't informed enough on the topic to even discuss it really .

 

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

The NCAA hired a forensic handwriting expert who said Rose most likely didn't take the test. Might be some weak "proof", but apparently that was their proof. That's a pretty important detail to leave out if you're going to discuss the case.

 

[Uk1111]

The important thing that most know but hasn't been said is that the NCAA not only cleared him, they cleared him TWICE! Cal would be been stupid, and crucified if he didn't play a player like Rose who been cleared TWICE all ready. That would be like not play Skal because in a year something might happen and the NCAA might recind his eligibility.

That being said, if Rose had nothing to hide, why didn't he reply and let the NCAA strip your Coach and teamates FF! That would almost be worse if he truly did take the test, yet was so friggin lazy he didn't reply and help ruin Cals rep because he didn't feel like cooperating. Rose is guilty, period. The only question is weatheritsoutof laziness, or he cheated, and I agree it's BS That he let Cal take The blame!

 

[WSU/UKfan]

I can't stand Derrick Rose. I put him in the same category as Marcus Smart and Ndamukong Suh. Those 3 guys have all gotten praised for being high character guys simply because they are nice or well spoken TO THE MEDIA and fans, but their actions on and off the court/field have shown who these guys really are. People need to stop giving passes to athletes who aren't jerks when a mic is put to their mouth. Judge them by their actions.

 

[mebeblue2]

if you think it is karma, what did Olden do to deserve his bad karma?
what did Bowie do?
and the list can go on and on
injuries happen, that is why so many records in all sports stand today

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Ehhh.. Didn't do anything wrong? Cheating on your SAT and having a final four banner ripped from your teammates seems like grounds for wrongdoings to me.

Yeah Karma bit him so bad he made millions, got to play in his home city, and won an mvp....damnnnnn karma!

 

[bthaunert]

The important thing that most know but hasn't been said is that the NCAA not only cleared him, they cleared him TWICE! Cal would be been stupid, and crucified if he didn't play a player like Rose who been cleared TWICE all ready. That would be like not play Skal because in a year something might happen and the NCAA might recind his eligibility.

Best way to explain this is just like your taxes. Rose was cleared because he got higher than the minimum score. After he was cleared, the testing agency was made aware that someone else might have taken the test for Rose. At this time is when they did an investigation. Just as with taxes, just because you turn them in and they are accepted, doesn't mean you can't get in trouble down the line for cheating on them.

Also, the University was made aware prior to the basketball season about possible allegations of this.

 

[MWes11]

Ridiculous.

 

[CELTICAT]

It's been a while since I had Eastern Civ, but my understanding is Rose would only have what we might consider "negative" karma only if his dharma fell outside the bounds of what his dharma should be. His dharma would be determined by his caste and gender. So for Rose to be experiencing negative karma, it wouldn't be from breaking test rules, it would be from becoming too successful at his trade, thereby violating his dharma.

Much more likely is that Rose is a freak athlete who played like a maniac at an unsustainable pace/level, and that cosmic forces are not in play.

 

[Xception]

The NCAA hired a forensic handwriting expert who said Rose most likely didn't take the test. Might be some weak "proof", but apparently that was their proof. That's a pretty important detail to leave out if you're going to discuss the case.

Well the NCAA cleared him a couple times so you may want to stfu if you're going to leave that out .

 

[mj2k10]

For his first 3 seasons, Rose had about as good a start to a pro career as any player in the last 25 years. And yeah, he's been snakebit since, but those 3 years set him up for life. If that's Karma, it's certainly a delayed-reaction version.

It's interesting how different guys respond to injuries. Maybe it's just a difference in physiology. It's become obvious that Rose is highly, highly unlikely to ever approach what he was those first 3 seasons. Which is sad for him, and frustrating for fans, but not the first time it's happened to an elite player. A lot of big guys have seemed like they weren't built for basketball (in the long run), but there have also been smaller guys (Brandon Roy being the most obvious) whose knees just couldn't seem to handle the sport.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Just heard a clip on ESPN radio that made him out to be full on Latrell Sprewell, i.e. need to make sure he can feed his family type stuff. That reflects really poorly on a guy who has made 57 Million over the last few seasons.....

 

[bthaunert]

Well the NCAA cleared him a couple times so you may want to stfu if you're going to leave that out .

As I posted earlier, clearance by the NCAA is only saying that, "yes, we got the score from the testing agency and yes, it is above the minimum score". Once they are made aware of a possible infraction is when they go and look at the actual test itself and see if there is an issue.

 

[Xception]

As I posted earlier, clearance by the NCAA is only saying that, "yes, we got the score from the testing agency and yes, it is above the minimum score". Once they are made aware of a possible infraction is when they go and look at the actual test itself and see if there is an issue.

Wasn't talking to you but while we're at it there is nothing concrete concerning proof , it's subjective at best with the signature . Rose was not proven to have done anything but the NCAA was more than eager to make a huge leap based on the flimsy actions of a testing agency . The NCAA should have done some leg work themselves considering the potential ramifications , so the fact that they cleared him twice is relevant because it further demonstrates their incompetence .

 

[ulismyman]

Self induced

 

[Blueaz]

You suffer from the same plight as the ones who blame Cal and Rose to begin with , are you stupid or intentionally trying to ignore details ? The NCAA did not prove that Rose cheated , the testing agency didn't prove he cheated . The testing agency sent Rose a letter to his former address to which he didn't reply and they nullified the test score because he didn't respond . Maybe you don't try to find the truth and just blindly eat whatever the Goodmans of the world feed you , they count and rely on that simple thought process . You simply aren't informed enough on the topic to even discuss it really .

no defending...but, obviously;it was a tad more that than...you are sounding too much like an apologist

 

[bthaunert]

Wasn't talking to you but while we're at it there is nothing concrete concerning proof , it's subjective at best with the signature . Rose was not proven to have done anything but the NCAA was more than eager to make a huge leap based on the flimsy actions of a testing agency . The NCAA should have done some leg work themselves considering the potential ramifications , so the fact that they cleared him twice is relevant because it further demonstrates their incompetence .

Just to be clear, the NCAA did not clear him twice over the standardized test score. They cleared him initially (just like they clear almost 500,000 other NCAA athletes) based on the score they received from the standardized testing agency. The second time he was cleared was after allegations of a grade change. The NCAA found no issues and said he was fine. I don't think that demonstrates incompetence at all.

Once the NCAA was made aware of possible cheating on the SAT, they notified Memphis prior to the start of the season. The testing agency then did an investigation into the test and notified the NCAA that they were canceling his test score making him ineligible.

This is so similar to Eric Manual at UK. Just like in the Rose case, prior to the start of the season, UK was notified that there were accusations that Manual cheated on his ACT. Manual sat out the season while the investigation was on-going as to not jeopardize any wins for the Cats. The case against Manual was much stronger than Rose.

I do agree that the proof is a little flimsy as you say. I believe the phrase was something like, "he probably didn't take the test" according to the investigation. But, this is also not the court of law and they can make their own decision based off that, which they did.

 

[Xception]

no defending...but, obviously;it was a tad more that than...you are sounding too much like an apologist

And thanks for providing the information I left out , oh wait a minute you provided nothing and sound like sheep that aimlessly wander in search of the easiest grass to eat .

 

[Xception]

Just to be clear, the NCAA did not clear him twice over the standardized test score. They cleared him initially (just like they clear almost 500,000 other NCAA athletes) based on the score they received from the standardized testing agency. The second time he was cleared was after allegations of a grade change. The NCAA found no issues and said he was fine. I don't think that demonstrates incompetence at all.

Once the NCAA was made aware of possible cheating on the SAT, they notified Memphis prior to the start of the season. The testing agency then did an investigation into the test and notified the NCAA that they were canceling his test score making him ineligible.

This is so similar to Eric Manual at UK. Just like in the Rose case, prior to the start of the season, UK was notified that there were accusations that Manual cheated on his ACT. Manual sat out the season while the investigation was on-going as to not jeopardize any wins for the Cats. The case against Manual was much stronger than Rose.

I do agree that the proof is a little flimsy as you say. I believe the phrase was something like, "he probably didn't take the test" according to the investigation. But, this is also not the court of law and they can make their own decision based off that, which they did.

They are applying those same stringent standards in the UNC case as well , very fair . "Probably" versus a former MENS player declaring to the world with a transcript , that's trustworthy . Looks like the women's team is going to get crushed .

 

[bthaunert]

They are applying those same stringent standards in the UNC case as well , very fair . "Probably" versus a former MENS player declaring to the world with a transcript , that's trustworthy . Looks like the women's team is going to get crushed .

I am just clarifying and speaking about the Rose case that we were discussing. I don't think, in that case, anything they did demonstrated incompetence based on the facts of the process and timeline. I am assuming you feel otherwise.

 

[Xception]

Stripping a final four based on signature analysis sounds competent .

 

[Xception]

Bottomline is that the NCAA wanted to make a case in the Rose situation and they don't want to make a case in the UNC situation . Lance Thomas had a hundred K of jewelry he took based on earnings and the NCAA couldn't find any proof ? Sounds legit

 

[bthaunert]

Stripping a final four based on signature analysis sounds competent .

I agree with you that it wasn't a slam dunk case. I disagree with you that clearing him twice (which is regular standard for the NCAA) and subsequently ruling him ineligible is not incompetent.

If you look at the 3 big things, I know why they leaned the way they did:

1. Taking a standardized test for the 4th time and getting a much better score on the 4th try.
2. Taking the 4th test in Detroit (after taking the 3 previous in Chicago).
3. The handwriting expert saying that he probably didn't take the test.

We will agree to disagree on this one. I don't think Rose is innocent in this one.

 

[bthaunert]

Bottomline is that the NCAA wanted to make a case in the Rose situation and they don't want to make a case in the UNC situation . Lance Thomas had a hundred K of jewelry he took based on earnings and the NCAA couldn't find any proof ? Sounds legit

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

No just no

 

[Blueaz]

And thanks for providing the information I left out , oh wait a minute you provided nothing and sound like sheep that aimlessly wander in search of the easiest grass to eat .

Please, get over yourself and take off the tinfoil.

 

[Xception]

Please, get over yourself and take off the tinfoil.

Keep drinking BRAWNDO

 

[Blueaz]

Keep drinking BRAWNDO

You have drank it all...and the crops are going to die...

 

[WitnessGreatness]

I always laugh when people justify how good Rose was before he got injured because he won the MVP. The season Rose won the MVP, was one of if not the worst season ever for an MVP winner ever. There were more worthy candidates, but the media didn't want to give it to LeBron because of "The Decision" and because Dwight is well Dwight. That's what happens when media votes for the MVP.

 

[mj2k10]

I always laugh when people justify how good Rose was before he got injured because he won the MVP. The season Rose won the MVP, was one of if not the worst season ever for an MVP winner ever. There were more worthy candidates, but the media didn't want to give it to LeBron because of "The Decision" and because Dwight is well Dwight. That's what happens when media votes for the MVP.

Justifying the MVP award and justifying how good he was are 2 separate things that you seem confused about. He might not have deserved MVP, but he did average 25 ppg and 7.7 assists for a team that won 62 games and made the conference finals.

You're right that there was a LeBron-fatigue element to Rose winning the award, but it was hardly the worst decision ever for an MVP winner. I loved what he did as a player, but Steve Nash won it in 2005 while ranking 18th in PER, and 2006 while ranking 14th, while being a complete non-factor on defense. Rose rated 5th his MVP year in estimated wins added, which is way ahead of Nash either of his winning years.

Storylines develop throughout individual seasons, and writers (who are the ones that create them) tend to vote the storyline for awards, as opposed to making rational decisions. Rose benefited in 2011, just like Barkley benefited in 93, Karl Malone in 97, Iverson in 2001, or Kobe in 2008. But a guy has to put himself in a position to become the storyline, and that doesn't happen without him being a superstar talent.

 

[UK90]

The important thing that most know but hasn't been said is that the NCAA not only cleared him, they cleared him TWICE!

Good lord, people are still bleating this "cleared twice!" nonsense? Some of you seem to have no understanding of how the clearance process works.

No real investigation is done with the original clearinghouse clearance, that is merely an acknowledgement that the player's grades and scores--taking the representations at face value--pass muster. BUT it does not bar the NCAA from later conducing investigation if evidence surfaces that such representations might be fraudulent. And just because you've been cleared on one allegation does not mean you've been cleared on any and all others that might arise. Rose was NEVER cleared after the evidence of possible SAT fraud surfaced and became known to the NCAA.

And, I'm sorry, but anyone who believes he really took that test is pretty damn naïve. The dude first took it a couple times in his hometown of Chicago and didn't even come close, but then for his last and final chance before the enrollment deadline inexplicably travels to Detroit to take it the final time for no logical reason. And, when he takes it in Detroit ...lo and behold! a staggering improvement that defies all logic and statistical probability. And then when the forensic experts examined his test they concluded it was plainly NOT his handwriting. And then he wholly refused to cooperate with the NCAA during their investigation.

Anyone with common sense can sniff out what likely happened there. Someone hooked him up with a proxy in Detroit to take the test for him, which is the sort of thing that I bet happens a lot more often than any here realize, but most guys get away with it. D-Rose just happens to be the one who got busted.

 

[WitnessGreatness]

Mj2k10- Here's the article proving my point, "The truth about DRose" Seriously he was all around analytically one of the worst MVPs ever. I think him and Iverson are the worst. Please don't ever use PER as your only proof again. Also, did you know the Bulls outscored teams more with him on the bench than in the actual game?http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-110331

 

[SosaUK]

Good lord, people are still bleating this "cleared twice!" nonsense? Some of you seem to have no understanding of how the clearance process works.

No real investigation is done with the original clearinghouse clearance, that is merely an acknowledgement that the player's grades and scores--as represented by him--pass muster. BUT it does not bar the NCAA from later conducing investigation if evidence surfaces that such representations might be fraudulent. And just because you've been cleared on one allegation does not mean you've been cleared on any and all others that might come up. Rose was NEVER cleared after the evidence of possible SAT fraud surfaced.

And, I'm sorry, but anyone who believes he really took that test is pretty damn naïve. The dude first took it a couple times in his home city of Chicago and didn't even come close, but then for his last and final chance before the enrollment deadline inexplicably travels to Detroit to take it the final time for no logical reason. And, when he takes it in Detroit ...lo and behold! a staggering improvement that defies all logic and statistical probability. And then when the forensic experts examined his test they concluded it was clearly NOT his handwriting. And then he wholly refused to cooperate with the NCAA during their investigation.

Anyone with common sense can sniff out what likely happened there. Someone hooked him up with a proxy in Detroit to take the test for him, which is the sort of thing that I bet happens a lot more often than any here realize, but most guys get away with it. D-Rose just happens to be the one who got busted.

That's not entirely true.