I'm new to the board and not sure how to search yet, so please forgive me. How many titles do you think Billy Donovan would've won at UK had he ended up here?
Billy Donovan
- Thread starter ZenCatFan73
- Start date
If he went back to back at florida, and has had 4 final four appearances, with a school that cares nothing about basketball......who knows!
I always gave this argument when people were praising Tubby. They'd say "He won a title"....oh yeah, just 1? Donovan wouldve had multiple.
I always gave this argument when people were praising Tubby. They'd say "He won a title"....oh yeah, just 1? Donovan wouldve had multiple.
I'm sure he would of done good here, he is a very good coach and has done very nicely at a all football school...but if we make that hire in 07, then we don't have calipari doing what he is right now...
Probably the same pre 1 and done era, but after prob not as much...he had good teams then terrible ones at florida
True. This brings up another question for me. Please bear with me. Obviously Cal is a big reason for the one and done era's arrival. Say we had ended up with Billy D, would Cal have had the same success at Memphis or elsewhere as he has at UK?
BD is is a pretty cool cat and would've handled the pressure here. With that said, and I know they're all supposed to be alpha males, I don't think he would've been determined to destroy RP the way Cal has. He would've been great though. And, it's very possible that one day he could end up here and that would be fine with me.
Yeah Donovan had some not so good teams at FL. AT FL. I am pretty sure he would have an easier time at UK with recruiting and putting out better teams year in and year out each season if he had came here. Just IMO of course.
I was thinking about that recently. I wonder if after Cal left UK, would Billy D want to come here?
If the timing is right I think so. At his age it's not much different than what some other pretty good ones have done.. I bet ya its crossed his mind.
I don't think he would have been nearly as successful as Cal. He caught lightning in a bottle with that group who won two. I think he could have stayed at Florida 10 more years and he might have seen one more final four.
Year before last he got the #1 overall seed, so it's not like he had a dry spell. No reason to think he was getting ready to drop off the map. He's not at UF anymore, so I'll freely admit he's one of the very best.
I hope he decides to come here after Cal hangs it up in a few years.
Really don't understand all these people arguing that he caught lightning in a bottle and then sucked.
Since Cal has been here, Billy went to a F4 and 3 other E8s.
Besides Cal, K, Rick, Izzo, and Bo, nobody has done as well as Billy D did in that span of time - and Billy's school cares less about basketball than any of their schools.
Is he as good as Cal? Probably not. Is there going to be a better coach out there who might take the job when Cal leaves? Unless Brad starts flopping in Boston, I don't think so. The next best guys would be Izzo, Marshall, Pearl, Matta, or Miller - of those, only Izzo has demonstrated as much ability as Donovan, but he's 5 years older than Cal, so that's not happening.
Since Cal has been here, Billy went to a F4 and 3 other E8s.
Besides Cal, K, Rick, Izzo, and Bo, nobody has done as well as Billy D did in that span of time - and Billy's school cares less about basketball than any of their schools.
Is he as good as Cal? Probably not. Is there going to be a better coach out there who might take the job when Cal leaves? Unless Brad starts flopping in Boston, I don't think so. The next best guys would be Izzo, Marshall, Pearl, Matta, or Miller - of those, only Izzo has demonstrated as much ability as Donovan, but he's 5 years older than Cal, so that's not happening.
Are we all assuming Billy is not going to work out with the Thunder then? Even if he was the first choice after Cal, if he didn't leave Florida for Kentucky, why would he leave the NBA?
Billy D is a great coach. That's indisputable. I wish we had hired him when RP left. He was my choice at the time.
Would've not been subjected to Tubbyball or BCG.
And likely at least 2 championships along the way.
Would've not been subjected to Tubbyball or BCG.
And likely at least 2 championships along the way.
You're welcome to look into that for yourself.
Our fanbase suffers from a grave miscalibration which makes discussing possible coaching replacements utterly impossible at times.
If a man has won two championships and been in two other final fours and three other E8s in the past 15 years at a school that is not Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, or UNC, that man is not a secondary candidate for hiring, no matter how you want to frame it.
If that causes you to think "that just means half the time he doesn't make the elite 8!" then you're simply out of touch.
Cal now and Rick in the 90s (and Rupp way back when) have done things at UK that you just can't do at most schools. When you start talking about what Billy has done at Florida, and people come in and want to nitpick accomplishments of that level, the only rational response is to examine the frame of reference.
I've already listed those couple of guys who've done better than Billy over the past 6 years, and it's precious few. And of those precious few, only K and Rick have had definitively better entire careers. Izzo and Cal can be debated with Donovan- you can go either way (obviously Donovan had a resource advantage over Cal for a long time).
It's the same kind of thing that is so infuriating when discussing Cal's accomplishments with the trolls on here. Phrases like "I'm sick of going to final fours" or "he really should've won more championships by now" belie the nature of the tournament and demonstrate a real lack of historical perspective. There are only 5 coaches in history with more champs than Donovan. Every coach with as many F4s as he has (and there aren't many) is going to be or already is in the HOF.
Unless you're K, Wooden, or Smith, Really elite, legendary coaches tend to go to F4s in bursts and by the end of their career, it averages out to something like 1 out of every 4-5 years.
Now Cal might be on the brink of entering that top tier with K and them where he ends up averaging one every other year or something - If he stayed the next 8 years, it's not at all unreasonable to say he'd probably make 4 at least (and people would still B$%^& about that because he's spoiled them), and that would currently put his F4s above everybody in history but those three guys, even if you take out the vacated ones.
For some perspective, if he did that and won the title two of those years, then Cal is a top 5 coach of all time with essentially no argument (Wooden, K, Rupp, Knight, Cal). He'd be 4th for F4s and for titles. So you guys saying that it's what should be expected ie. "he should have won x number" - you're essentially expecting him to become a top 5 coach of all time by resume. And it's totally possible and it's exhilarating.
But I feel like a lot of UK fans are now under the impression that if you see a coach at another school (even a legendary performer like Billy D) whose work doesn't match that Cal level at UK, that it's just not worth it - that we'd be settling.
The implication I guess is that if we just make the right hire, we can find a sure fire (or nearly sure fire) future coaching demigod like K/Wooden or what Cal appears to be turning into. Like if we get some brilliant mind like Gregg Marshall or Brad Stevens or something, it's a lock for that to happen.
Reminds me of the backup quarterback thing - most popular guy on the team because he's not on a big enough stage for his flaws to be out there. If we hired a more unknown perceived high-potential type, is it possible that he could exceed Billy D? Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? Well, considering you're gambling on him being better than a guy who is objectively a top 20 cbb coach of all time, no it's not likely. It's just not.
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Here's the thing with Donovan. He's not much younger than Calipari. If Calipari stays until he retires, we're not going to have Donovan for very long before he is at the retirement age (providing he was hired). I think an argument can be made that we would want to look for a younger candidate. But, it's all speculation. Who knows how much longer cal will want to stay, or if Donovan would want to come.
People will need to be realistic about the coach who follows Cal. I think the right way to go would be with someone proven who can handle the pressure. Donovan would be the man. I wish it would happen. I don't think you take a flyer on the coach who follows a legend.
what if UK hired
I agree and the players wanted him too.
When Billy will likely never coach here, as the timing probably won't come to be. But if UK was open and Billy D wanted the job, it's his.
I agree and the players wanted him too.
When Billy will likely never coach here, as the timing probably won't come to be. But if UK was open and Billy D wanted the job, it's his.
Billy D would have done really well here, but he would have always had his ear to NBA jobs. He's still pretty young as far as elite coaches go. I would feel better about a Billy D hire later down the road now that he's getting a feel for what the NBA is like. The pressure at UK pales in comparison to the NBA. One mediocre season in OKC and he gets the boot.
When you recruit at Billy's level, you have 1 title shot about every 10 years.
When you recruit at Cal's level, you have a title shot about every other year.
Billy's championship teams at Florida were a once in a lifetime, perfect storm recruiting class and merely ranked 12th the year Brewer, Horford, Noah and Green graduated HS in 2004.
Brewer was a Mickey D but talent is the simple reason Maryland was the last team to win a championship without a single McDonald's All-American.
When you recruit at Cal's level, you have a title shot about every other year.
Billy's championship teams at Florida were a once in a lifetime, perfect storm recruiting class and merely ranked 12th the year Brewer, Horford, Noah and Green graduated HS in 2004.
Brewer was a Mickey D but talent is the simple reason Maryland was the last team to win a championship without a single McDonald's All-American.
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There's no indication that would ever happen as he's turned down the job once and made it perfectly clear he wasn't interested another time. UK isn't for everyone which is fine.
No telling how things play out if Billy came here. He basically did not want to go against his mentor anymore than he had to. Anyone needing proof needs to look no further than the elite 8 game where he lost a 17 point lead to UL a few years back. He didn't have it in him to put his mentor to shame. But Cal does so we're good.
As far as him coming to UK later, well RP won't be at UL much longer at all. However I think I'd rather have Shaka than anyone when Cal leaves. I truly enjoy watching his teams play ball and buy into what he teaches.
As far as him coming to UK later, well RP won't be at UL much longer at all. However I think I'd rather have Shaka than anyone when Cal leaves. I truly enjoy watching his teams play ball and buy into what he teaches.
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