bill self V. Tubby smith

[.S&C.]

There are two things Self does extremely better than Smith. One is recruit and the other is coach. Except for those two things, they may very well be equal.

People seem to miss this. Tubby could coach and had a good grasp on that aspect. What he didn't do that Bill Self does is recruit, and TRUST his players. Tubby had 0 trust of his players, and it ended up costing him. You are correct on his recruiting. as I said in an earlier post, not giving the handlers and guardians their due black balled him. These basketball handlers are the worst, and some of their "guardians" are thugs and trash, but if you're going to be in the collegiate sports profession in this day and age, you have to deal with them. Tubby was better suited for high school.

 

[.S&C.]

test

you're working.

 

[lobbyman]

Katwatcher.
My review of the inept lost decade under ten loss Tubby is based on fact.
97-98 35-4 Tubby's best year with Pitino's material.
98-99 28-9
99-00 23-10 The next six out of nine years had at least ten losses
00-01 24-10 and one nine loss year.
01-02 22-10 His inept coaching and recruiting during those years
02-03 32-4 led to 65 losses or 32% of the games.
03-04 27-5 Those are not opinions. Those are facts
04-05 28-6
05-06 22-13
06-07 22-13

 

[.S&C.]

Katwatcher.
My review of the inept lost decade under ten loss Tubby is based on fact.
97-98 35-4 Tubby's best year with Pitino's material.
98-99 28-9
99-00 23-10 The next six out of nine years had at least ten losses
00-01 24-10 and one nine loss year.
01-02 22-10 His inept coaching and recruiting during those years
02-03 32-4 led to 65 losses or 32% of the games.
03-04 27-5 Those are not opinions. Those are facts
04-05 28-6
05-06 22-13
06-07 22-13

And those records are reflective of what happens when a Ok(good) coach coaches here. He gets a boost. I get sick of hearing how UK and the program mean nothing. It's a complete lie, and this is proof it does hold lots of weight.

 

[Katwatcher]

There are two things Self does extremely better than Smith. One is recruit and the other is coach. Except for those two things, they may very well be equal.

Although I have not followed Self's career all that much, I think he is an excellent coach. I do not feel likeTubby was that much of a lesser coach than those thats been mention in this thread.

In all of our comments about who's the best coach or recruiter , we seem to be missing the point. Are we talking about National Championships? Tubby has as many as Self and Cal. Final fours is another category. Tubby has only 1 but he still has it. Tubby has been to 4 elite eights and 3 sweet sixteens

So are we talking about National Championships, Final fours, or the number of their players that are "drafted in first round of NBA draft". which wasn't even a factor a few years back?----------- have a good day.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

John Calipari is a vastly superior coach to Tubby Smith, and for the above poster to argue otherwise is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here. Coach Cal has taken 3 different programs to the Final Four (only an idiot would argue otherwise as we all watched the games), and has been to 6 Final Fours overall. How many Final Fours did Tubby take UGA or Minny to? I must have missed it. Bill Self is also a superior coach, when you talk about wins/losses and conference success and the whole body of work. Yeah, 2 Final Fours to 1 is not that big a gap at all, but at least Self's teams play well most seasons. His only flaw is he has come up short at times in the NCAA with good teams (Which Tubby knows all about). I would agree with the OP that the gap between Tubby and Self is not the Grand Canyon level one between Tubby and Cal.

 

[Katwatcher]

John Calipari is a vastly superior coach to Tubby Smith, and for the above poster to argue otherwise is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here. Coach Cal has taken 3 different programs to the Final Four (only an idiot would argue otherwise as we all watched the games), and has been to 6 Final Fours overall. How many Final Fours did Tubby take UGA or Minny to? I must have missed it. Bill Self is also a superior coach, when you talk about wins/losses and conference success and the whole body of work. Yeah, 2 Final Fours to 1 is not that big a gap at all, but at least Self's teams play well most seasons. His only flaw is he has come up short at times in the NCAA with good teams (Which Tubby knows all about). I would agree with the OP that the gap between Tubby and Self is not the Grand Canyon level one between Tubby and Cal.[/QUOTE
Don't know who you are referring to saying Tubby is a superior coach to Cal or Bill Self. I think both are excellent coaches. None of the points I made in my post have been answered. You haven't explained how a far superior coach with far superior talent {8 to NBA ] has not won more National Championships than Tubby. I'm just asking.

Speaking of Tubby at Georgia, He took back to back teams to NCAA which had never been done at Georgia in school history, so if you are willing to read what Tubby's accomplishments are you will find he is a lot better than you give him credit for. I'm not saying he was better than anyone, just pointing out how far off some of your comments really are.

 

[Uk1111]

OTS is possibly the most overrated HC ever! He only had success with other Coaches recruits, and was a decent, but not great XO Coach who threw his players under the bus, and make up lame exuses like theycouldnt win because they had to walk across the street in the cold to their practice facility, LOL! Yes, he actually made that excuse at minny. He got lazy and saw that he didn't have a good young nucleus so he flew off in secret to negoiate a deal with Minny, which I why I LMAO whenever had called a classy guy. Corrdgial, yes, classy, HE!! NO!!!!!!!

 

[jguynn]

I agree it was best for him to leave when he did. Your post makes my point.
You are saying Tubby lost in first round of NCAA a decent amount of times. That is just not true. Actually he NEVER lost in first round nor did he play in NIT in his ten year tenure.


Also going to the NCAA Tourney is an accomplishment, it means you have a shot at title. Tubby never failed to have his team in the NCAA tourney. Its ok to GUESS what would have happened if Tubby had stayed because no one knows, but I do know he and his family was treated like second class citizens by the posters on this board there was no guessing about that. .
Tubbys recruiting wasn't good the last two years. He was never one to let the tail wag the dog either. Tubby was a class person. He ran a program without any investigations or wins vacated. At one point in time Tubby had Five STARTERS in NBA, but it wasn't Tubby that announced it.
jmho

Very well put the Tubby hatters need to get a life!!

 

[.S&C.]

Lobbyman, this is just your opinion and I disagree with it. As far as being a so called typical ten loss defender, So what!
I'm glad you brought up my distorting of his record, please point out where I have done that. You do a lot of talking without knowing the facts, but your are not by yourself on that.

To the best of my memory Tubby averaged around 26 wins per season with 8 losses. Never won less than 22 games per year! National Championship------------ 21- 7 record in NCAA tourney and the only UK coach in history to take his team to NCAA every year . That seems to be quite an accomplishment to me.

I have also mentioned that he has no wins or final fours vacated from his record or being investigated by NCAA, but never a response and all along I thought that was a major factor when grading a coach. I think it was the right time for Tubby to leave, as his entire family was trashed beyond reality.

Tubby left in a classy way. Had nothing to say negative about UK. That is the way I saw it.

How old were you? He left in a classy way?

I've got some troubling news for you, you saw it dead wrong.

 

[.S&C.]

Saying you think tubby and cal are both excellent coaches is just ridiculous. Tubby Smith is one more firing away from being out of coaching for good. ONE more.

Tubby is going to end his career being ran off or fired from his last three stops. Revisionist history on your behalf is not going to change those facts. I think tubby is a pretty decent coach, could have been a lot better, and any comparison to guys like Hall, Pitino, Crum, Cal, Self, Williams or anyone of the sort is just simply a wishful comparison.

 

[Katwatcher]

How old were you? He left in a classy way?
I've got some troubling news for you, you saw it dead wrong.

I don't think age has anything to do with this, however I'm older than you.lol

Yes, he left in a classy way He followed the same criteria that most coaches do. The part you don't understand is the abuse he went through, his entire family. For Sale signs were put in his yard without his permission, Ads were taken out in local paper criticizing his efforts and suggesting he leave. Poster were actually telling recruits they would be better off somewhere else. Answered all reporters questions and did not say anything negative about UK in fact bragged on them.

False rumors began circulating that he never told team he was leaving and that was false. To make a long story short he was run off. Started getting harrassed by some even after winning National Championship. Did not leave with probation hanging on or vacated games. Just went on to Minny and they are still talking about him 8 years later. Very Classy Guy. Just ask his peers. You have a good day.

 

[.S&C.]

Katwatcher,

You should have saved some time. I don't need the sympathy speech for Tubby Smith. I know what he is. You are way too far to one side on the topic. Tubby is a good coach, but he's never been anything more than that. Fans at UK expect more than good (Ok), and I'm sorry you don't seem to understand that.

There was no abuse. The coaching ranks in D-1 are hostile and volatile. If you cannot run with the big dogs, go to Texas Tech. If you cannot win a few games there, you're in retirement.

Posters we not telling recruits to go somewhere else, thats just nonsense. I've been on these boards since the early 2,000's. I mean, fans AND his superiors were BEGGING him to hire a new staff to HELP him in recruiting.

He absolutely did not inform the team he was leaving until way after the fact. And I know that to be 100% fact. You are just simply too blinded for this conversation as shown by your talking points that maybe 2% of this fan base buys into. If Tubby had been good enough, UK fans would have adored him. It just comes down to that, not good enough. let it go.

 

[Katwatcher]

Katwatcher,

You should have saved some time. I don't need the sympathy speech for Tubby Smith. I know what he is. You are way too far to one side on the topic. Tubby is a good coach, but he's never been anything more than that. Fans at UK expect more than good (Ok), and I'm sorry you don't seem to understand that.

There was no abuse. The coaching ranks in D-1 are hostile and volatile. If you cannot run with the big dogs, go to Texas Tech. If you cannot win a few games there, you're in retirement.

Posters we not telling recruits to go somewhere else, thats just nonsense. I've been on these boards since the early 2,000's. I mean, fans AND his superiors were BEGGING him to hire a new staff to HELP him in recruiting.

He absolutely did not inform the team he was leaving until way after the fact. And I know that to be 100% fact. You are just simply too blinded for this conversation as shown by your talking points that maybe 2% of this fan base buys into. If Tubby had been good enough, UK fans would have adored him. It just comes down to that, not good enough. let it go.

This is not a sympathy speech for Tubby, I am just correcting you on some of your false facts, Tubby did see his team before he left. He was accused of using former players as his guests on his call in show so they would run out of time and he wouldn't have to answer questions. I was in the thick of it, I know what happened. It was sad to see adults act in this manner. Some accused Tubby {and get this} his wife of cursing the players in dressing room. Can you imagine that. Why someone would tell that I don't know.
I think Tubby was and is an excellent coach.

Tubby is approaching retirement and will probably be voted into Hall of Fame deservedly so. I supported Tubby through most of his stay at UK and thought he should have left 1 year earlier. I 've always said no coach was bigger than UK and I thought Tubby did a good job keeping that tradition. that way.
You see, we have had 6 coaches in the last 42 years since Rupp . Tubby has as many National Championships as Joe B., Pitino, and Cal, so that is why Tubby will be in Hall of Fame. jmho

 

[lobbyman]

Kaywatcher,

Your lack of knowledge and objectivity is stunning.
Ten loss was not qualified for the job but Corrupt M Newton did not consider
anyone else.
In addition Donna was a problem during the lost decade.
You appear to think you are informed because you were in the thick of something.
Perhaps in the thick of darkness.