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I enjoy checking out what fans of these NBA teams say about incoming UK players every year. They're quickly coming around on the Bam "reach".
Remember that time KAT went to the NBA and started doing things he didn't do at UK and then BAM he's a stat producibg fool. Or when Booker came in and unleashed on the NBA. Well, if Bam can carry this over to the actual season, we might just be seeing the best player from that UK recruiting class.
This isn't the NBA regular season, but he's a Monstar.
This isn't the NBA regular season, but he's a Monstar.
Pat Riley ain't no slouch on evaluating talent.
This brings me satisfaction from how good he is doing and leading the break like he is with the ball in his hands. I got into a ton of arguments on here before Bam signed with an agent. I stated I would much rather have a soph Bam than Bamba here next season. That he would be a 20/10 guy for us and with Richards or SKJ taking the post spot Bam could move to the PF spot where he naturally belongs. He could show his skills on the perimeter that he never showed here. I was made fun of for my thoughts.
You were saying last month he was a 2nd rounder, should not consider leaving and implied the only reason he left was because Cal was pushing him out like he does everyone...
Oh, and along with the comment...
"You can get behind the system all you want and get behind Cal's main agenda of "changing lives" and getting kids to the pros. Does it work for winning titles? I don't know. My opinion is that it can get you close but it won't win the big one. I think that opinion is being proven accurate over and over again. Unfortunate"
Yet leave out the inconsequential fact of that pesky 2012 National Title...
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It's frustrating watching all these UK big men do such amazing offensively out of the post right away in the summer league and NBA meanwhile Calipari forces them to be a traditional back to the basket post player.
Bam was good in the last 15 games I recall.....he still getting better too
My comment about 2nd round was based on his draft projection. Never did I say that "he will be a 2nd rounder". Many mock drafts at the time of his declaring projected him as a 2nd rounder. Hindsight is 20/20 now that he went lottery. I'm thrilled for the kid but I stand by my opinion that if Cal wants to win titles he MUST find a way to get "fringe first round" kids to stay. It's imperative.
I stand by my opinion that Cal's penchant for getting kids to the pros as quickly as possible will make it very difficult to win "titles". It's great for the kids but basically counterproductive given the recipe required to win a title. In short, his greatest strength is also his greatest detrimate (as it pertains to winning titles). UK gets the best recruits (strength), because they are the best they leave early (detrimate) I don't really want to explain it again because it draws such vigor and vitriol from the masses and I understand. The Cats are the most important thing in the lives of many. It's only natural to defend something so beloved.
It's my opinion (and I'm entirely entitled to it), that a team made up of majority freshmen, with no "talented" upperclassmen CANNOT win the title. 2012's title doesn't debunk this opinion, it defends it. Darius Miller was as good an all-around player as anyone. He had serious game. You combined him with some very talented returning players in Jones and Lamb, and then combined them with arguably the greatest and most decorated freshmen of all time (AD), and another talented enough freshmen to go 2nd overall, and you get a national title.
The problem is that was Cal's 3rd year. He didn't convince Miller to stay, Miller just did. Had he recruited Miller to UK, would he have made it to his senior year as talented as he was?
Last year's team to me was actually the perfect recipe. You had very quality upperclassmen players in Willis and Hawkins to go along with oober talented freshmen and they almost won it had it not been for one very rogue official.
To put a bow on this, for a final time; my opinion is that you must have a combination of quality upper classmen players to go with these talented freshmen in order to win the title. It simply cannot be done with freshmen alone. I actually don't see what's so offensive about that. It's not some bold opinion, history tells us as much.
I don't think Cal has created an atmosphere where it's ok to "stay", therefore I think our chances of retaining a quality upperclassmen player will be slim. It's why I hated it when Marcus Lee transferred, Charles Matthews, Wiltjer, etc. I hated it when Briscoe and Humphries declared. We needed those guys. And I hate it when fans get down on a Wynard, or SKJ because they're not coming along as quickly as these other superstar freshmen. It's ok. Let them grow and develop and most importantly.....STAY.
You must have quality upperclassmen players to win a title. UK doesn't promote that type of atmosphere. What Cal is doing now will win a lot of games and get you close, but no, I don't think it wins the big one.
Just my opinion and I know it offends but I'm assuming I'm not entirely alone on that fear/opinion.
What do you think Cal would rather have? Honestly, a freshmen Bamba, or a sophomore Bam?
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anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
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It's called development. The only person you should be frustrated with is yourself for not understanding today's game.
I'm not offended at all. And I respect anyone's opinion, especially those that root for a rival, but are a paying member here.
I think most fans believe that a combination of experience and talent is always best - the issue is that no one has said how they would do that yet. 4 stars want to play too...
As important as Miller was, he was one guy. Sophomores are not considered upperclassmen anywhere but here.
3 freshmen, 2 sophs, and 1 senior who didnt start won the title.
By your reasoning 2016 should have won a title as well - Sr starting, Soph AA pg, Fr 2G, 3 Jr played most of the rest of the minutes - yet this was Cal's 2nd worst team...
Getting to the FF is enough, once there it is a crap shoot. If you can make the FF consistently you have a great chance to win a title every time. The roster doesnt lose that one game.
10 - shots not freshmen cost us.
11 - Free throws not freshmen cost us.
13 - depleted roster, Teague and Lamb leaving, an ACL cost us - not freshmen.
14 - defense, lost starting center and and star player playing hurt, and Cal cost us - not freshmen.
15 - the last 4 minutes of one game, bad refs and Cal cost us - not freshmen.
16 - Dakari leaving, UPPER CLASSMEN PLAYING WEAK IN THE MIDDLE, Skal cost us - not freshmen.
17 - Refs cost us - not freshmen.
Why we didnt win title summary -
Poor shooting (2)
Injury (2)
Refs (2+)
Upperclassmen
Wall, Cousins, Orton, Bledsoe, Hood didnt hurt us.
Knight, Lamb, Jones didnt hurt us.
Davis, Teague, MKG, WIltjer didnt hurt us.
WCS, Alex, Noel, Archie didnt hurt us.
Twins, Young, Randle, Johnson, Lee, Willis, Hawk didnt hurt us.
Kat, Trey, Booker, Ulis didnt hurt us.
Murray, Briscoe, Hump didnt hurt us. Skal did.
Monk, Fox, Wenyen, Bam, SKJ, and Tai didnt hurt us.
Only one player as a freshman hurt us significantly.
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![[cheers]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/5628.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
The game is different in college then in the pros. LSU let their star do whatever he wanted, they didn't even make the tournament. There is a real team concept in college and everyone has a job for the greater good. Having a year under your belt can make you a much better player and even though game wise the bigs don't get to shoot a lot of threes doesn't mean they didn't practice them everyday in practice.
Nice that bam no longer has to worry about getting fouls called on him for things like boxing out and posting up and generally just being stronger than everyone else.
bam shooting 17 FTs highlights the difference between the college and nba game.
Good post, good info, good discussion.
Please don't misunderstand; I'm not saying freshmen are hurting us. I'm saying that freshmen alone are simply not enough.
I could easily make the point that in 2010 all those missed shots (that cost us as you pointed out), were taken by a majority freshmen laden team. Patterson was a quality upperclassmen player. That team had the makings to win it. Got cold, killed them. Does a veteran quality perimeter shooter in Jodie Meeks allow that to happen? Probably not. I don't put that on Cal of course.
My position is that it CANNOT be done, to win a title without contribution from a quality upperclassmen player. A team made up of majority freshmen can't win the title.
Just so I understand your position; are you saying that an all freshmen team can win the title? If so, I respect your opinion, I just disagree. Time will tell, but history has already spoken.
It is your opinion and you do have a right to it, it's just many of us don't believe it's true which is our right. One thing I think you are way off on is anyone going lottery should never be talked into staying like Bam. If he would have an injury this year it would make Cal look like K.
Cal has insight that we don't have, if he had an inkling that Bam would slip to the second round, he would have told him that it would be in his best interest to stay. I believe that and we have to remember that Cal has a family to deal with and their decision probably plays a greater part then Cal's does in some instances.
if any kid in college is showing you his best...you are essentially watching a 4 year player with no nba future
Bam and Whiteside in the front court, consider my interest peaked. Good luck getting a rebound against those two.
Thats a formidable foundation to build upon, but Heat desperately need to get younger and more talented in the back court.
Thats a formidable foundation to build upon, but Heat desperately need to get younger and more talented in the back court.
"Freshmen were the cause of missed shots in 2010..."
Boogie was 6-11 at 55%
Wall was 7-18 around 40%
Bledsoe was 3 for 9 - 33%
Freshmen = 43%
Non-freshmen (PPat, Miller, Liggins)
5 for 20 = 25%
How about another huge loss, bigger than 2010?
1984 Final Four
Team 13 for 53 = 24%
4 Seniors, 1 Junior and 2 Sophomores in that game.
I dont think an all freshman team will win it, but we will never have an all freshman team so it doesnt really matter.
"A team made up of majority freshmen can't win the title."
2012 Title
Freshmen (4) 57%
Sophs (2) 28%
Sr (1) 14%
This. Great teams, seniors or freshmen, have bad nights. In a single elimination tournament, one nonsensical cold night is the end. It really doesn't matter what class they're in. Seniors go cold too. Best
Of 7 is the fairest way, but he NCAA will never do that, so just accept that you get, historically, about 1 out of 5 or 5 titles you had a shot at.
We had a great perimeter game last year and needed a post presence. I don't think he was misused at all.
So then. With the above opinions. It was a fluke we won the title in 2012. AND that more titles should not be expected.
However, I seem to recall. That you have said Cal is a disappointment; because he should have multiple titles at UK with all those lotto picks
So which is it? Cal sucks because he has been underachieving with such great NBA talent.
Or Cal sucks because he always gets talented freshman that leave too soon and are not seasoned enough.
Having a more versatile option on the court is more difficult to defend than one that only scores in the paint on postups or lobs
I'm still waiting to see this all freshmen team that some people are so worried about.
It's ok though. Next time we win the Title, some upperclassmen will do something right. Because, you know. Proof.
It's ok though. Next time we win the Title, some upperclassmen will do something right. Because, you know. Proof.
Nah, they spent 4 mos being taught the game and by the time March rolls around the improvement is evident. Most of our freshmen are playing way better by tournament time.
So in 2012 if you take away Miller, do the Cats still win the title?
Do you believe a team with zero upperclassmen contribution can win the title? If yes, what do you base your opinion on?
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It doesn't offend . We ALL just know that you're not really a UK fan. Point blank period.
Simple as that
