Austin Rivers' Sour Grapes

[lakercat]

Lol and you are still lost. Just take a seat.

You're not good at reading comprehension are you? Everyone in this thread, except for you followed this thread without effort. It's not our fault that you and the other Duke "fan" need things spelled out for you. It's funny that you made this handle a few days ago. Bandwagon much?

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

You're not good at reading comprehension are you? Everyone in this thread, except for you followed this thread without effort. It's not our fault that you and the other Duke "fan" need things spelled out for you. It's funny that you made this handle a few days ago. Bandwagon much?

Boy, I'm not a duke fan. I was calling that dude out cause he acted like a jerk to another KENTUCKY fan. And he was wrong.

Is that what you do? Just call someone a Duke or UL fan when you start throwing a tantrum?
Lol
Try again from the beginning. There was no need for him to be abrasive to the other guy.

Smh.

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

No, he's not. It wasn't that difficult. He, nor the original poster made a reference to him not being worthy of the NBA. Instead, Mark said he feared he might get blackballed and fall out of favor with the players, Lumpy said it might not even matter, because he doesn't have the talent to sniff the USA roster, and if he doesn't improve soon, he won't even be asked to participate.

How is it that the two Duke fans are still scratching their heads over this?

Not a Duke fan son.

I was trying to let him know there was no need to be abrasive. That makes sense to you... Right? Go back to the beginning and read again. Maybe a little slower lol.

"You disagreed so you are a Duke/UL fan"

Cmon... That's so vanilla.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

There's no need to read it again. About a half a dozen people understood what was said. You didn't.. And that's OK.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

This literally stems from 1 poster saying "try and keep up" and using the awful, unforgivable cuss word: stupid. Seriously?

 

[Neue Regel]

Have never cared for Rivers very much and I don't think he was exactly the world's greatest teammate at Duke. I was attacked vehemently by Nick Horvath a few months back for having the audacity to utter such a sacrilegious statement.
(Appreciate Austin's soul crushing 3-point dagger to defeat the Heels in CH in 2012 though!)

 

[kentucky_wildcat_#1]

I have always thought Rivers was more hype than actual talent. Even when many of our own fans were defending him and talking up his game. He's lucky his dad is coaching in the NBA or he would be looking for a team to give him a chance. Even in highschool and at Duke, Rivers was just a guy who never met a shot he didn't like. Lucky for him he had the duke whistle behind him so when he threw up a stupid shot, he could get bailed out by a bogus foul call. It seems the guy hasn't lost any confidence even while stinking up the NBA. Never liked his game and never will. I know duke has a history of having former players you just couldn't stand, but this guy took the came on that topic. I bet he fit in well with their fanbase.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

If there's any guard who might have a legit basis for being upset about never making the national team, it's a fella named John Wall.

Until he can shoot better from deep, Curry/Westbrook/Kyrie will always be ahead of him. I do expect he'll get a chance, however, once Chris Paul retires from international basketball.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Kyrie will not *always* be ahead of him. Wall was the better point guard the last 2 years in the NBA. The problem is he was on an abysmal Wizards team his first 2-3 years so he had a slow start. Credit to Kyrie though, he came into the league firing on all cylinders.

But you're crazy if you think Kyrie will just walk into a spot on the roster over the next decade. He has injury problems. He's fortunate to play on a stacked team with Lebron, the same guy who singled handedly saved Mario Chalmers career. Kyrie has leveled off over the last few years after his hot start while John Wall has progressed each year. It *should* no longer be a given that Kyrie gets the nod over Wall.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

He's fortunate to play on a stacked team with Lebron, the same guy who singled handedly saved Mario Chalmers career..

Kyrie was an all-star before Lebron and should be for a long time going forward. Equating Kyrie with Mario Chalmers is pretty ridiculous.

 

[.S&C.]

No D Kyrie?

Give me Wall any day of the week. Wall +Lebron = 2015 NBA title.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I'm not equating them as the same player. I'm equating the fact that playing with Lebron helps your career. It takes pressure off. You're able to shine more. Wall was stuck on a bum-ass team that's just starting to be playoff material.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

I'm not equating them as the same player. I'm equating the fact that playing with Lebron helps your career. It takes pressure off. You're able to shine more

Kyrie has been in the league for 4 seasons, only one of which he played with Lebron.

2011-12 - 18.5 ppg and 5.4 apg
2012-13 - 22.5 ppg and 5.9 apg (all-star)
2013-14 - 20.8 ppg and 6.1 apg (all-star)
2014-15 (with Lebron) - 21.7 ppg and 5.2 apg (all-star)

Kyrie had better overall seasons statistically in the two years prior to Lebron than he did last season. While Lebron certainly helps take the heat off, Kyrie was clearly an elite player before they were teammates.

But you're crazy if you think Kyrie will just walk into a spot on the roster over the next decade. He has injury problems.

John Wall hasn't exactly been the model for an injury-free player during his NBA career.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Probably because he's not getting his shots. He doesn't have to take the game over with Lebron.

John Wall was fine in college and fine over the last 2 years. He was rested towards the end of this season after playing like 210 consecutive games. Aside from some bumps in his earlier NBA years, he's fine.

Irving had foot issues in College, has yet to play a complete season, and the last time we saw him on the court he blew out his knee.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Not to mention, because I'm sure this argument will eventually compare their stats, Kyrie is a score-first, SG-in-a-PG-body player. He's always going to put up more PPG than Wall. But Wall is a better facilitator and a better defender. Which still makes me wonder why anyone crafting an all-star team would take a slightly me-first player in Irving over a team-oriented player like Wall.

I would think we have enough guys who want the rock and will take their shots. Wall is fine running the offense and plays better defense than Curry and Irving combined.

I really don't think he will be left off the roster and All-star list much longer. I expect him to take Irving's spot next year.

 

[UKcats1988]

Kyrie and Wall are both really good players. They both fall in the "star" category. They're polar opposites as players though so comparisons between the two are hard. Kyrie is extremely gifted on offense while Wall is a great floor general and good defender. As far as who is better? Depends on what you prefer, I'd choose Wall because I value his defense but have no problems with anyone who would choose Kyrie.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Despite all this injury talk, do you realize that John Wall has only played 25 more games than Kyrie since Kyrie came into the NBA? That includes the playoffs.

I really don't think he will be left off the roster and All-star list much longer. I expect him to take Irving's spot next year.

Agree to disagree.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

The hell are you talking about? John Wall played 345 (18) games and Irving played 256 (13). I'm no mathematician, but I don't think 25 games is the difference.

Update: I see your counting since Kyrie came into the league. Whatever. I don't know how else to explain it. Wall just got done playing 210 consecutive games, Irving had surgery like 2 months ago.

What about this board screams "Hey rival fans, come here and tell us about your team."?

 

[Mark Gastineau]

The hell are you talking about? John Wall played 345 (18) games and Irving played 256 (13). I'm no mathematician, but I don't think 25 games is the difference.

Did you overlook my question? Here it is again:

Despite all this injury talk, do you realize that John Wall has only played 25 more games than Kyrie since Kyrie came into the NBA? That includes the playoffs.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I updated my post, which was done before you posted.

Still don't care to hear about Irving's post college time, when college was one of the factors I brought up. His injuries are more frequent and more serious than Wall's. John came back with a broken hand and still played. a Fractured knee cap isn't the same.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Update: I see your counting since Kyrie came into the league.

I was all along...

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Gotcha. 210 consecutive games. Busted knee. Spin that all you want.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Gotcha. 210 consecutive games. Busted knee. Spin that all you want.

Agree to disagree. Wall is a fine player, and I understand why you support him. At the end of the day, however, he can't shoot on the same level as Kyrie, and USA coaches appear to value that.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Gotcha. 210 consecutive games. Busted knee. Spin that all you want.

Wall missed the start of 2012-13 (3+ months) with a knee injury and nearly missed the end of the Wizard's playoff run this season with a wrist/hand injury.

Kyrie missed three weeks in 2012-13 with a injury to his index finger and fractured his knee cap in the NBA Finals last season. You can put more stock in a college injury that has done absolutely nothing to hurt Kyrie's production in the league, or you can recognize that Wall and Kyrie have similar injury histories in the NBA. Your choice. At the end of the day, when Team USA is sizing up these guys, you'd be pretty crazy to think Kyrie's toe injury in college will play any factor.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

What's it called when you nearly miss the end of the playoffs? Playing in the end of the playoffs.

Despite it being a toe ligament, it's in the leg, you never know what will happen, simply because it's in the lower body. While Wall's injury was also lower leg (anything in the leg gives cause for future concern imo), he's had a great 2+ years after the injury.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

While Wall's injury was also lower leg (anything in the leg gives cause for future concern imo), he's had a great 2+ years after the injury.

And in the 4 seasons since his toe injury, Kyrie has made 3 all-star teams and helped his team reach the NBA finals. I think it's safe to say that he has more than recovered from his toe injury in December 2010. And while I agree that any lower body injury gives pause for concern with super athletic players like Wall/Irving, there is absolutely no way you can link his 2010 toe injury to a broken kneecap.

 

[RipThru]

Hey Austin...don't be a pussy. If you think you're better than some of the USA players, name some names.

 

[Bluemamba]

If it wasn't for his Daddy he would have been D-League bound!

U got that right....totally sucked till Dad gave him another shot aka tubby and saul one of top 4 worst pgs ever at UK (Saul)

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I didn't link either issue. But injuries and body weakness can be underlying. Not everyone's body is the same. But admittedly, these injuries are a lot of times "Wrong place are the wrong time".

Still, Irving has had two injuries now that may have stemmed from other injuries. His fractured Patella last year (This may have just been diagnosed poorly, and instead was just the same injury), and the broken index finger a few years back. Then his Shoulder that side-lined him for 2-3 weeks in 2013. Then strained his Biceps, missed a month in 2014. He has yet to pull together a complete season.

Remember, Wall's patella injury was non-tramautic stress injury.. not a stress-fracture mind you. He was out for 3 months. Could it be a problem down the line again, sure. But it wasn't nearly as severe as Kyrie's.

I'm not saying Irving is going down the path of Oden. But he's clearly had more injuries, and more serious injuries than John Wall.

 

[UK90]

Which still makes me wonder why anyone crafting an all-star team would take a slightly me-first player in Irving over a team-oriented player like Wall.
.

The reason is because of three point shooting. That was one of the biggest lessons we learned from our 02 and 04 humiliations--if your guards can't hit threes then you're screwed in international ball--and ever since then Coach K has made a point of overloading the roster with outside marksmen, and to his credit, that strategy has worked great.

Wall's inability to hit three pointers is why he might end up never making Team USA, at least as long as Coach K is the boss.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

I'm not saying Irving is going down the path of Oden. But he's clearly had more injuries, and more serious injuries than John Wall.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I simply think you're conflating injury issues with Kyrie while attempting to minimize such concerns with Wall. Honestly, I don't know how you're finding a causal link between a 2015 injury to his patella (knee), a 2012 broken finger, a 2013 shoulder injury, and a bicep strain in 2014. I'm not a doctor, but none of those injuries seem remotely related beyond the fact that he incurred them playing basketball.

Regardless, this entire point is really moot, as Irving has already done enough to guarantee a USA spot going forward. After all, Irving was the MVP of the 2014 World Cup and the 2014 USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year. And if anyone wants to knock either of those accomplishments, consider the fact that Anthony Davis, Steph Curry, James Harden, Demarcus Cousins, Derrick Rose, and Klay Thompson were his competition for those awards.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Agree to disagree on what? lmfao. These injuries aren't debatable, they happened. He hasn't played a full season. If he plays a full season next year, that's out of the norm for him. It's a fact he's had more injuries than Wall, and it's a fact he's had more serious injuries than Wall.

It's called being "Injury prone". I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. And regardless of injuries, I think Wall will grab Irving's spot next year. THAT you can "agree to disagree" on.

I'm also glad someone mentioned Coach K's name when determining if Wall or Irving get a roster spot. I'll just leave that there.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Actually, thinking about it, I take that back. No way Wall makes roster over Irving as long as Coach K is there.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Agree to disagree on what?

Again, you must have missed exactly what I typed:

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I simply think you're conflating injury issues with Kyrie while attempting to minimize such concerns with Wall.

Make sense now?

And regardless of injuries, I think Wall will grab Irving's spot next year. THAT you can "agree to disagree" on..

Disagree.

I'm also glad someone mentioned Coach K's name when determining if Wall or Irving get a roster spot.

His 5 titles and 2 gold medals make it pretty clear he knows what it takes to win, and he clearly recognizes that Irving's strengths are simply more valuable to Team USA in international play. Sorry.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Actually, thinking about it, I take that back. No way Wall makes roster over Irving as long as Coach K is there.

Coach K being the coach isn't the reason why Irving is a better shooter than Wall (which is why he's on the team ahead of Wall). Sorry.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

You're right, he'd never play favorites. I followed along fine. I had an entire post speaking to their difference in injuries, with NOTHING about who was better, nor anything about speculations for the coming year, and your first sentence back was...

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Is this now the 2nd thread in 24 hours you've had trouble following? You seem to kind of know how quotes work, and at the same time, have no damn clue.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Sorry.. Aggree to disagree.


Sorry.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Is this now the 2nd thread in 24 hours you've had trouble following? You seem to kind of know how quotes work, and at the same time, have no damn clue.

Following along quite clearly, thanks. I'm agreeing to disagree with how you view the injury histories for Wall and Irving. I stated, pretty clearly, that "I simply think you're conflating injury issues with Kyrie while attempting to minimize such concerns with Wall." You come back, in the very next post mind you, that you have no idea what I'm agreeing to disagree about, even though it was obvious if you had actually read the post you were presumably replying to.

By all means, if you want to portray me as someone that has no clue, have at it. Doesn't change the validity of my argument, or the fact that Irving will be on Team USA because he's a better shooter than Wall (as one of your fellow BBN members pointed out as well).

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Sorry.. Aggree to disagree.

That's fine. I'm very comfortable with the actual evidence supporting my points about Irving/Wall in this thread.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

He won't have to worry about being blackballed from team usa because he won't be in the top 100 player pool anyway.

Try to keep up.

By all means, if you want to portray me as someone that has no clue, have at it. .

Don't worry, I'm not the only one who thinks you're clueless..Sorry. Disagree to agree.