Are the days gone when a kid came to Kentucky because they always
- Thread starter 23jumpboy
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Look at the recruiting record of the two coaches prior to Cal and it will most assuredly answer your question. If tradition was the tool compelling these kids UK would have to turn away recruits every year.
Most kids are looking to what coach will get them the best chance to get to the NBA. Cal is not a two and three star recruiter. He goes for the gold. Sometimes he finds it,sometimes it goes another direction and lands n some other coaches program. It's in Cal, not UK that they trust.
I don't even want to think what it may look like once Cal packs it in and rides off into the sunset.
JMO,
Tim
Most kids are looking to what coach will get them the best chance to get to the NBA. Cal is not a two and three star recruiter. He goes for the gold. Sometimes he finds it,sometimes it goes another direction and lands n some other coaches program. It's in Cal, not UK that they trust.
I don't even want to think what it may look like once Cal packs it in and rides off into the sunset.
JMO,
Tim
anytime some complains about the NBA i tune them out as the NBA is by far the best pro sport and is better now then it has been since the mid 90's . It loaded with stars Westbrook , Lebron ,. AD, KD , Harden just to name a few and while the mid range game has gone extinct shooting and skill is on huge upswing in the NBA as well. But it is just a thing people say about the NBA when they don't watch it . I remember in the 90's people complained about "thugs " and dunking and all that crap . Haters are going to hate and that never changes but the excuses do .
I enjoy being in the chase for a national championship each year but I can also say that I enjoy watching players stay around long enough to really get to know them. Getting the best of the best each year is great but sort of leaves an empty spot in a sense. There will always be players who grow up wanting to play for UK but how many will actually get to that talent level will probably be very small. I am very glad that we are able to compete each year but at the same time a bit sad because the era of watching players stay around for 3 or 4 years, get a degree and move on seems to have ended.
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I'm curious how you determined which players do and don't qualify as being part of that "heart of the team" group?
You don't think by far and away its best player, Mashburn from New York, counts? Nor the team's starting point guard, Sean Woods from Indiana? Nor its two guard and defensive stopper, Dale Brown from Missisippi? Nor any of its other out of state rotation contributors like Riddick, Brassow, Martinez, Timberlake, etc.?
The mythology about the 92 team supposedly being a plucky bunch of homegrown kids has been SO overblown and exaggerated over the years. Truth is the vast majority of the 92 roster was from out of state just like every other UK team in the modern era. And that team would have been unspeakably awful without guys like Mashburn, Woods and Brown.
I'm curious how you determined which players do and don't qualify as being part of that "heart of the team" group?
You don't think by far and away its best player, Mashburn from New York, counts? Nor the team's starting point guard, Sean Woods from Indiana? Nor its two guard and defensive stopper, Dale Brown from Missisippi? Nor any of its other out of state rotation contributors like Riddick, Brassow, Martinez, Timberlake, etc.?
The mythology about the 92 team supposedly being a plucky bunch of homegrown kids has been SO overblown and exaggerated over the years. Truth is the vast majority of the 92 roster was from out of state just like every other UK team in the modern era. And that team would have been unspeakably awful without guys like Mashburn, Woods and Brown.
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Kids still want to go to big time programs, and the coach only helps in that. Its nothing different than its ever been. Elite athletes that want their best and quickest route to the league will certainly care more about who the coach is and what the program atmosphere is like, but all in all, from recruits 15-100, programs like this one are one of the biggest selling points. Anyone who says otherwise is completely clueless.
The OP is a basketball fan, and he knows the answers to the questions in his post. It's just his way of getting some conversation started. Those days of a kid shooting on a goal on the side of a barn or in his backyard dreaming of coming to Lexington and playing for the Wildcats are gonzo. Things change, college basketball has changed.
Cal has figured out how to compete and win. We won't win the NCAANC every year, but 38-1 and a FF is not too bad. We'll lose a few games along the way, but it would become boring if we never lost a game. We will always have that proverbial target on our backs, and when we play on the road, we make those tickets disappear and go up in price, but Lord is it ever fun.
Once in a blue moon we may get an all-world level player from Kentucky that wants to play for the Cats. Coach Cal has brought in some first class guys since he has been leading us. My compliments on that.
Enjoy the ride. It has been fun so far. Most things change over time. Go Big Blue.
uhh, wrong.
One recruit got mixed up on where Derrick Rose played basketball, 7 years ago. That's hardly a topic for this discussion, its you making a huge leap. It's also about Kentucky to lots of these recruits, because they say so. Demarcus Cousins was quoted as saying When Cal left memphis for UK that just made everything a bigger deal. Did you miss that?
Some of you need to lighten up on bashing this program by making irresponsible connections that don't mean anything. We recruit OAD type players, so more of them are going to be a little more concerned with they style and coach than the actual school. Its norman, and its common sense. Really, its no different than its ever been. Its just a bit altered.
Kentucky is no longer a draw? Pulleeezzee.
There is no school with our tradition. Kentucky is soaked through with basketball history. 1000's of kids would kill just to sit on the bench at that program. So it has always been. I see no end to that. Even our recent crops of fabulous athletes relish their time at UK.
You expect a youngster with the athletic ability to NOT maximize his chances of exploiting that ability, some literally with millions on the line? Of course not. In our case, while KY will soak you in basketball tradition, it also offers a proven stepping stone to professional excellence. From my seat, the line for a spot on our pine is a long one.
So is it Kentucky or Calipari? As good as he is, he's just the latest in a line of championship winning coaches. The line of kids who want to play at KY who were also great athletics will still be there long after he is gone.
There is no school with our tradition. Kentucky is soaked through with basketball history. 1000's of kids would kill just to sit on the bench at that program. So it has always been. I see no end to that. Even our recent crops of fabulous athletes relish their time at UK.
You expect a youngster with the athletic ability to NOT maximize his chances of exploiting that ability, some literally with millions on the line? Of course not. In our case, while KY will soak you in basketball tradition, it also offers a proven stepping stone to professional excellence. From my seat, the line for a spot on our pine is a long one.
So is it Kentucky or Calipari? As good as he is, he's just the latest in a line of championship winning coaches. The line of kids who want to play at KY who were also great athletics will still be there long after he is gone.
Hey, focus was on Pel, Feldhaus, Farmer, yes Woods from Indianapolis. Brassow missed most of the year with a knee injury, Ford wasn't in shape and hurt too, and yes of course Mash with is monster year and Brown with his defensive skills and uncanny 3 point shooting. Riddick and Timberlake made miniscule contributions that year. Martinez had his moments that year, 26-6 against Robert Horry of Alabama was the high. I don't think I ever heard anyone refer to Deron Feldhaus as "plucky", or at least to his face. This group put Kentucky back on the map. 29-7 is a great season for any Kentucky team, and 2.1 seconds from the final four.
Did you want to talk basketball or did you want to chit chat?
What the Hell is that?
What the Hell is that thing?
What the Hell is that?
Aw, I know what that is.
What the Hell is that?
What the Hell is that thing?
What the Hell is that?
Aw, I know what that is.
What the Hell is that?
Yeah, because UK had gone to 4 FF's in 5 years exactly...never, until now.
UK had runs where they were in the mix every year, but the only time past about 1954 similar to what we've seen with Cal was with Pitino (and the Pitino leftover years) in the 90's. Which happened because Pitino was drawing a lot of great players, few of whom had grown up UK fans.
You try to sell nostalgia, you end up playing in candy-striped warmups in a barn of an arena, with fans that pine for a coach who's been gone for over 15 years (and was last really good 7 years before that), talking about that title you won 30 years ago. As opposed to going 38-1, just 3 years after winning a national title.
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Lost me with that one.
Are we saying unless you are second generation blue blood, you are just a greedy money grubbing teen looking to use the big blue to line your pockets? Maybe its third generation. Can't really be raised a blue blood unless you have a blue blood sire. We are not the Tudors!!
The question: Is Mashburn a KY fan now? Is Macy a Ky fan now? What about bluegrass born and raised King Rex?
Don't think we ever insisted on patents to joust, whether at Memorial or Rupp.
I do like to know there is one, at least one, walk on or star that understands. It's like the plague, it spreads, no rats required.
Hey Don! The brain is willing but the fingers have gotten stiff, if you know what I mean.
I'd contend that the "good old days" virtually never existed.
The best players have always gone to the place that was the best for them. Whether that meant momma could see them play, they'd play for the best coach, they'd get the best education, or whatever else, has changed, but it's never been just for the love of the jersey for a huge portion of kids at any school.
It's easy to forget that we are the fans and they are the players and coaches. Just about every kid everywhere grows to love the place they spend their college years, but unless you're a legacy (and how have those worked out?) you didn't grow up as a fan.
The best players have always gone to the place that was the best for them. Whether that meant momma could see them play, they'd play for the best coach, they'd get the best education, or whatever else, has changed, but it's never been just for the love of the jersey for a huge portion of kids at any school.
It's easy to forget that we are the fans and they are the players and coaches. Just about every kid everywhere grows to love the place they spend their college years, but unless you're a legacy (and how have those worked out?) you didn't grow up as a fan.
If "focus" was on those guys, it's because that's where our fans wanted the focus, not necessarily because that's where focus deserved to be.
And, let's be honest, Riche Farmer stunk at college basketball. Overall he was a liability who usually hurt us more than helped when he was on the floor. Dude could not play defense at all, could not play the point position because he did not have good enough ballhandling or passing skills, could not penetrate, and did not have good shooting percentages either. So what exactly did he give us? He had only one notable skill (outside shooting) and even at that one and only skill he was not good. This statewide mass delusion where folks have long pretended like Farmer was better than he actually was has gotten old. And, as you noted, Ford also was out of shape and did not play well that season.
So, in reality, there were only two homegrown players that were truly genuine assets that season. Pelphrey was outstanding, and Feldhaus was a very solid role player. All the other heavy lifting came from out of state players like Jamal Mashburn, Sean Woods, Dale Brown, Gimel Martinez, etc. So forgive me for rolling my eyes when I hear this increasingly-embellished fairy tale about how 92 was supposedly the year we were carried back to prominence by the homegrown Ky boys.
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Cal has made us into a proven stepping stone, we were not for the better part of the new millennium. The advantages of being a basketball school (commitment to the program, great facilities, etc.) make it more likely we get a great coach, and it helps with players some, but we wouldn't be getting the players we are, and having the success we are currently having without Cal. They may look back on their experience fondly, but the players that are responsible for our success did not come here because of the school.
I agree the old days are gone. I just don't think it is Kentucky, it is all the schools including KU, Duke, UCLA, etc. All kids are wanting to get to the NBA and we are seeing the same at KU, Duke, and the other big schools and that is why the Head Coaches from these big schools have switched from come to Duke, Kansas, or UCLA and stay 3 or 4 years and get to the NBA! Now it is all about the one and done and getting to the NBA quick!
I miss the days of college basketball when every player stayed 3 and 4 years. If you go back to the early 90's and look at the guys that stayed around for 3-4 years, it's insane compared to today. Not speaking about UK, but the game in general. But times change, and you adapt to those changing times. We have adjusted. Do I like the game better today than 20-25 years ago..absolutly not, but it's not a UK thing, it's a college basketball thing.
Kentucky is a draw because of their coach. John Calipari will be the first to tell you today's players (born around 1995) have no concept of Kentucky's tradition. The only high school player that may would be a Kentuckian and very few Kentuckians have the talent to play Division I Championship basketball. We can count them on our hands over the past 20 years. So the answer to the question is obvious. If we recruited only those players who dream of playing at UK we would win maybe 5 games a year. I would sign up but we would lose 30 games if you recruited people like me.
This thread only makes me wish even more so that the NBA would draft kids right out of high school. I honestly think it would be better for college basketball overall.
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