Another Decommitment
- Thread starter UKCats5
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Really disappointing loss. Still top 50 class with only 15 commits. Staff should finish pretty good and should be a GREAT day tomorrow in regards to Marcus Lewis!
I understand that decommits are going to happen, but WTH is going on with so many near signing day?!
We'lll see how final signing day turns out...but losing a third DE is a crushing blow to me and is really where UK stands way back from better SEC teams is on the DL in particular.
We'll see how it ends up in final class...but this is Joker/Brooks level class (which is really 90% of Stoops value thus far was his recruiting...not his on field coaching thus far). Hard to put liptstick on this pig any other way.
We'll see how it ends up in final class...but this is Joker/Brooks level class (which is really 90% of Stoops value thus far was his recruiting...not his on field coaching thus far). Hard to put liptstick on this pig any other way.
RE the DE....very true. Looked like for awhile UK could bring in those guys, RS them then move into '16 and beyond with some experienced D talent. Not now and UK will pay big time for this in future years. Just spinning our wheels, going nowhere fast.
Disagree with you on this being a Joker/Brooks type class. The Joker/Brooks classes did have some highly regarded talent in each class but where they failed is getting more of the mid-level talent to commit. They usually finished out each class with a bunch of two star guys or borderline 3 stars.
Not sure I would call it Joker/Brooks level. As of now before its all over UK is tied at 49 with only 15 recruits. Liklihood of improving that 49 ranking appears good especially if the news tomorrow is what is anticipated. Also the inividual player average of this class is still a 3 point something so player quality is good. I understand also that as a result of the 85 total limit that either this class (15) or the 16 class would be smaller classes. With the quality instate players above the norm next year and hopefully an improved record next year this could bode well for a fuller 16 class with a pretty good player ranking average.
It is disappointing to see these decomits. But as others have said many of the decomits went to elite level programs (Alabama, OSU, Auburn, Mich St) that are hard to beat out when they come calling. Last year however UK held on to almost all of its commits. I am at the end of the day pleased with the quality of the players we are getting.
You do realize that Joker/Brooks had at least 7 to 8 of those type of commits in each class. You know that right?
Not saying it will happen, but if we finish strong on signings of silent verbals, I will laugh loud and long. Our staff might be a little surly, playing some things close to the vest, whether out of caution, or spite.
You do realize the kid just transferred from Alabama to NJ for his senior year and lead New Jersey with over 20 sacks (I think the number was 21.5 or 22.5) You do realize he played against fairly good teams for the first year in this position. You also realize he is a 3 star player. Sometimes players get lost in the shuffle when they move like this. Its pretty good improvement in the expectations we have as fans when we now refer to 3 star players as borderline. Something tells me that was not considered a borderline player prior to Stoops.
You really think the north east schools would not have been on him if they wanted? This is not a kid who was overlooked by Penn St and signed with Pitt or Rutgers....we are talking about a kid that was committed to a MAC school....and a 6-5 avg MAC school at that. I could care less about his HS stats....I look at his offer sheet...the fact he was never ranked in rivals and has no other offers besides a MAC school speaks VOLUMES. I hope I am wrong and he turns out great...But you don't take the next step as a program taking flyers to fill holes while ur class is in shambles.
The old silent verbal. That sure is an Oxymoron to beat all. I assume by silent verbal that you are speaking of a player telling the coaching staff that they are coming to UK but that they do not want it known or made public before signing day. It has been my experience that this seldom happens. I know if I was a coach I would be very reluctant to hold a spot for some kid that made a silent verbal and a coaching staff would have absolutely no reason to honor any commitment that was not made public,
I can not think of even one good reason for silent as you say verbals.
Pretty obvious that you didn't look at his highlights or hear his coach rave about him, better than the other two or three DEs he sent to ELITE programs.
But if you did and wrote this then you are just being dumb, IMO. And the DE we just lost was also a 5.5 according to Rivals.
Doubtful we'll get any type of explanation from the Ky media covering UK. Doubt they're even aware of it. If it's not a pellet gun or a might've been, could've been bar fight they aren't interested.Originally posted by WildCard:
I agree. Unprecedented numbers. This is like 6 de-commits in a little over a week. It is indeed like sanctions were just announced. Very strange. I doubt you will ever hear a "story" on these losses.
Peace
So you could care less about HS Stats? Hmmm I wonder if paid evaluators and recruiters could care less about HS stats. Something has to get recruiters to pay attention to a player to further review and make offers - I bet his stats are one of those things.
The fact that he was never ranked in rivals? Funny, I thought he was a 5.5 3 star which coincidentally is the same ranking as the player that decommitted at about the same time this player chose UK.
If you do not think players get lost and overlooked, then explain why so many of the players in the NFL that were up for top honors were not offered by any Power 5 conference schools. That's ANY power 5 school. That is not just 2 or 3 schools like you mentioned above but is upwards of 65-70 schools. And lest we forget Cobb. I believe he too was overlooked while living right under the nose of UT. So yes, getting overlooked happens. It especially happens when you move from one state to another when those states are not even in the same regions (Bama to Jersey is a pretty good distance). And it especially happens when you move into a new position on a different side of the ball.
I do agree with you on your last two sentences. 1. That you hope you are wrong and he turns out great. And 2. That you dont take the next step as a program taking flyers to fill holes. However I disagree with you in that I do not classify this kid as a 'flyer.
This post was edited on 2/2 1:32 PM by TheThack
The only way there will be a "story" is if media writers (traditional print or internet) follow up on these kids and pointedly ask: "Why did you decide to go there rather than UK". De-committs is just not "news" to the traditional sports media and I don't ever recall seeing ANY fan site reporters do so.Originally posted by mrschwump:Doubtful we'll get any type of explanation from the Ky media covering UK. Doubt they're even aware of it. If it's not a pellet gun or a might've been, could've been bar fight they aren't interested.Originally posted by WildCard:
I agree. Unprecedented numbers. This is like 6 de-commits in a little over a week. It is indeed like sanctions were just announced. Very strange. I doubt you will ever hear a "story" on these losses.
Peace
Even then, I suspect you would not find any dramatic revelations (e.g., "Enormous State U just has a better program"); more likely benign comments such as: "In the end I just felt more comfortable there".
Peace
You may not want to put this class on Joker level, but the fact of the matter is that Joker was recruiting around 50th in the nation. Guess where we are? 49th. In 2011 Joker's class was only ranked 62nd, but that class only had 2 guys that were 2 stars. The rest were 3 or 4 stars. In 2012 he only had 4 guys that were 2 stars, and one of them was a kicker. It is obviously debatable on whether his 3 stars were as good or better than the ones we are currently bringing in, but the fact of the matter is still that we were extremely close in terms of rankings that he was.
Also... why does it even matter how good Joker's recruits were? We don't need to compare then to now unless we're worried about the Joker recruits still on the roster. We need to compare what our class is like compared to the rest of the SEC, and when we look at that we are in dire straits. We're some odd 20 ranking spots below the next closest SEC team. So, unless we're only looking to compete with Vandy (and UF right now) then this recruiting is not going to cut it. Not to mention our biggest rival is 19 recruiting spots ahead of us. We don't have to be number 1 in the league in recruiting, but the idea is to at least keep our talent level pretty close to the rest, and I don't think we've done that this year.
Also, we're losing guys like Stowbridge, who had offers from almost every big name college in the country. Who are we going to replace them with? Josh Allen who has an offer from from basically nobody else...? Maybe he comes in and tears up the place, but a lot of people put a lot of weight into who has offered these kids, and his offer sheet isn't encouraging. I know there are a few guys on the board we're still going after, but the problem is that we're replacing decommits with guys that are kind of unknown possible diamond in the rough players. We should be finishing out the class and filling spots, but instead we're hoping to get a few more targets and then having to replace the defectors. I don't think we can spin the positively no matter what we do.
Also... why does it even matter how good Joker's recruits were? We don't need to compare then to now unless we're worried about the Joker recruits still on the roster. We need to compare what our class is like compared to the rest of the SEC, and when we look at that we are in dire straits. We're some odd 20 ranking spots below the next closest SEC team. So, unless we're only looking to compete with Vandy (and UF right now) then this recruiting is not going to cut it. Not to mention our biggest rival is 19 recruiting spots ahead of us. We don't have to be number 1 in the league in recruiting, but the idea is to at least keep our talent level pretty close to the rest, and I don't think we've done that this year.
Also, we're losing guys like Stowbridge, who had offers from almost every big name college in the country. Who are we going to replace them with? Josh Allen who has an offer from from basically nobody else...? Maybe he comes in and tears up the place, but a lot of people put a lot of weight into who has offered these kids, and his offer sheet isn't encouraging. I know there are a few guys on the board we're still going after, but the problem is that we're replacing decommits with guys that are kind of unknown possible diamond in the rough players. We should be finishing out the class and filling spots, but instead we're hoping to get a few more targets and then having to replace the defectors. I don't think we can spin the positively no matter what we do.
There will definitely will be no mention of the perks like 50 and 100 dollar handshakes, loaner cars, no pay accounts at certain stores and that girl that was so nice to him wink wink on his visit.Originally posted by WildCard:
The only way there will be a "story" is if media writers (traditional print or internet) follow up on these kids and pointedly ask: "Why did you decide to go there rather than UK". De-committs is just not "news" to the traditional sports media and I don't ever recall seeing ANY fan site reporters do so.Originally posted by mrschwump:
Doubtful we'll get any type of explanation from the Ky media covering UK. Doubt they're even aware of it. If it's not a pellet gun or a might've been, could've been bar fight they aren't interested.Originally posted by WildCard:
I agree. Unprecedented numbers. This is like 6 de-commits in a little over a week. It is indeed like sanctions were just announced. Very strange. I doubt you will ever hear a "story" on these losses.
Peace
Even then, I suspect you would not find any dramatic revelations (e.g., "Enormous State U just has a better program"); more likely benign comments such as: "In the end I just felt more comfortable there".
Peace
By the way, I mean no disrespect to Josh Allen... just kind of weary of "diamond in the rough" recruits considering we have been hearing that idea for about 10 years now. Allen would be an outstanding add to just round out a class, but if you look at him as a replacement for Stowbridge... it makes me nervous. Of course, I hope he proves me wrong and becomes a stud.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEW NEWS IN THIS POST. WEVE ALL BEEN WELL AWARE OF HIS MOST LIKELY DEPARTURE FOR WEEKS AND IN DOZENS UPON DOZENS OF THREADS.
His replacement has already been chosen i do believe. Besides, this class is still very good.
His replacement has already been chosen i do believe. Besides, this class is still very good.
Hmm, you do know that rivals rankings are also based on the number of recruits in addition to the quality. In 2012 UK had 26 recruits but yet they finished 63rd in the nation NOT 50th. We only have commits thus far from 15 players and are still ranked 49th. That should tell you all you need to know about the quality of player Stoops and company is recruiting.
Understood but really good players get found. Watch the video this is not a diamond in the rough type of recruit. On video he looks like a low 2 star. He might turn out better than expected, Travathan did, but this is not the kind of recruit to get hyped over. He's a really good project but he is a project. Let's understand what he actually is and not do what we did under Joker which is over hype every 2 star that picked us over a MAC school.
^^ Agree... the ones we have are strong, but it needs to finish strong, and decommits in a small class at this time of the year are not good signs to me.
As I said earlier, this class is not good enough for the SEC. Now if we rebound next year and this years is a blip on the radar, no big deal. Next season, this staff has to win 7 games IMO. Otherwise, it's same ole Kentucky in public perception. Which is huge in recruiting.
I doubt we will ever hear the story on what happened but something clearly has happened. I have never seen anything like this. We had more luck hold on to recruits heading into the probation that Mumme brought us. Losing an Ohio kid to Ohio State is one thing. Losing 6 kids in a week to the likes of North Carolina and NC State is another matter.Originally posted by WildCard:
I agree. Unprecedented numbers. This is like 6 de-commits in a little over a week. It is indeed like sanctions were just announced. Very strange. I doubt you will ever hear a "story" on these losses.
Peace
Yes, I do know that. However, if I am not mistaken, Rivals only actually counts the first 20 in that process. So, the number has a limit. So, yes, the top 20 in 2012 was not as strong as this year's top 15. Largely because Stoops has brought in 2 four star guys compared to Joker's none that year.
I was not talking about 2012... I was referring to 2010 when Joker was ranked 50th in the nation in recruiting. The next two years were 63rd and 62nd. No, we aren't in the 60s, but we're much closer to the 60s than we were 29th in Stoops' first year or 17th last year. Fact of the matter is that this is a HUGE step back. And once again, why does it matter what we got in the Joker years? Most of those kids are heading towards the door. What I am worried about is the fact that almost every other SEC team has classes ranked in the top 31. The only three that don't are UK, Vandy, and Florida. I know it can change, but if this class remains pretty close to where it is at then we are hurting ourselves in the long run. You see, UK cannot afford to have bad years recruiting. We are already lacking in talent, so we need to have solid years every year. We need to be at least top 25-30 with an occasional top 15-20. Hopefully we finish out strong, but the past week has been discouraging.
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