AD will go down as the best who ever played at UK.

[kybassfan]

The post I quoted. The whole speech basically saying young people don't know any better.

HUH? I'm quoted a bunch. Be a bit more specific.

Well, let me save you some time. Let's just admit you have no idea what you are talking about as I've not belittled him anywhere in this thread or any other for that matter. To say he did not equal to Dan Issel's career stats is not a put down. To say he should be allowed to base his legacy on an actual full NBA career is not a put down.

 

[kybassfan]

He is already 3-4 this year in the preseason games...

Not surprising.

 

[Ron Mehico]

As far as my analogy,

And work on your reading comprehension. I'll try to use smaller words as "fabulous" seems to be beyond you. That means REALLY REALLY good by the way.

Let's get one thing and only one thing straight. There is no "as far as" with your analogy. That is literally the only thing I discussed with you. I could not possibly care less about Davis and whether he's the best Kentucky play of all time. I never mentioned Anthony Davis with you, I have no clue what reading comprehension you are referring to with me, clearly you are having too many arguments with too many people over things you're saying and are getting confused. I never even read past your analogy. It was just a horrible, terrible analogy. I've already used a better example with you - Ken Griffey Jr.. Here's another one - Grant Hill. Here's another one - Bo Jackson. You just made a really dumb analogy. That's all it is, that's all we're talking about. Your terrible, awful analogy. That's all.

 

[kybassfan]

You seem not to understand the context of Dan Issel's stats. Yes, they are incredibly impressive, but there are some HUGE mitigating factors surrounding them. Issel played in the highest scoring era of college basketball history, and he played on one of the highest scoring teams of that era. It was also an era when it was not uncommon for a coach to force-feed his best player, getting him a ton of shots. That's why you had Maravich going for 44 a game, Austin Carr putting up over 38 per game one year, and numerous other guys (Calvin Murphy, Elvin Hayes, John Mengelt, Johnny Neumann, and more) putting up statistics that would look completely absurd in the 2011-12 version of college basketball. If you want to go by sheer statistical volume, you'll come to the conclusion that all the best players in college basketball history played from approximately the mid 50's through the late 70's. Which somehow doesn't seem possible.

You need context. It's like comparing these 2 stat lines for baseball players:

player 1- .319 BA/ .362 OB/.589 SLG/44 home runs, 146 RBI's
player 2- .290 BA/.390 OB/.547 SLG/37 HR's, 119 RBI's

Player 1 looks better on paper. But in this case, player 1 was Vinnie Castilla, a 3rd baseman for the Rockies who put those numbers up in 1998, playing in a year when the average National League team scored 4.6 runs per game, and playing in a home ballpark that wildly inflated scoring. Castilla finished 11th in the MVP voting that year

Player 2 was Mike Schmidt in 1986, playing in a year when the average National League team scored 4.18 runs per game, and in a home ballpark that was relatively unfriendly to hitters. He won the MVP that year.

Anthony Davis played on a UK team that averaged 77.4 ppg, in games where UK and its opponents combined to take an average of 115.7 FG attempts, and 38.8 FT's. Issel's senior year, he played on a UK team that averaged 96.8 ppg, in games where UK and its opponents combined to take an average of 146.5 FG attempts, and 50.9 FT's.

Think about how that effects stats. Just take rebounding as an obvious example. In Issel's senior year, the average UK game featured 90.2 rebounds. Issel averaged 13.2, and was responsible for 14.6 % of all the rebounds in UK's games. Anthony Davis "only" averaged 10.4 rebounds. But the games he played in featured an average of 70.9 rebounds, and he was responsible for almost exactly the same percentage as Issel (actually, a tiny bit more). And think about AD's shotblocking. He personally blocked nearly 8% of the opposition's FG attempts. That means that around 1 in every 13 shots the other team attempted were rejected by Anthony Davis.

There was a reason that AD won POY, and it didn't have much to do with his pro potential, It had to do with what he accomplished on the court, in the context of the year he was playing in. Issel's accomplishments in his era where obviously great, and he was, if not POY, close to it. But you can't just point at some numbers that are bigger and say that wins the argument.

Again, I think you've proven what I've already said. Davis has posted the best single season of any college basketball player in history. He's not the best career player at Kentucky. I understand the other stats you've mentioned and I appreciate the work you put into that. However, to borrow a notion from my adolescent friend, TyCat, there are contextual factors that play into those comparisons. For example, Issel was on a team that was not equally strong at all positions. His stats were posted with only three years eligibility. Most compelling he leads two career categories with just three seasons. In other categories, he's at or near the top such as field goals, FG attempted and free throws. These things play heavily into the numbers. For example, I think we can dismiss to an extent the scoring averages of the day as they were offset by the gross career numbers accumulated over three years. All these numbers were posted by Issel with defenses knowing full well that if they stopped him, they had a good shot at the W.

Davis had the best year, undisputably. Issel retains the career best player for UK. Would Davis have taken it after three or four years? Well, now that's a question. I think so, quite possibly. Then again, that's not really the question nor would that question be answerable.

Again, good post. Don't think I agree with you, but well reasoned.

 

[kybassfan]

I never even read . . .

I rest my case.

 

[TyCatPrice14]

You feel like that because I'm treating you like a 12 year old which is giving you the benefit of the doubt after those last few posts. You've essentially told me I can't prove anything to you, a childish remark. You've also advised me that I can't prove anything "other than throwing out stat category". By the way, that should be "categories". I listed three as I recall. Grammar, young man. The very thought that we are supposed to objectively compare players separated by literally 2 generations without statistics is, well, ignorant, stupid, ridiculous or all of the above? Tough to say. For myself, I'll stick to my numbers. You engage in whatever fantasy and contrived vocabulary you like.

You define handles however works best for you. I'm not making any judgements. And I'm not "homering" on anybody. And PLEASE do not tell this old fart what that means as I'm pretty much language limited to the King's English, Red Neck and Deep Southern Drawl. I also have a dictionary and I'm afraid the youthful vernacular would just make me sick to my stomach. Now I know how Norman from "On Golden Pond" felt when confronted the phrase, "suck face".

You sure your last name isn't Crean?

Your analogy is quite terrible, and because I am younger and don't talk like you did back in your olden time days doesn't mean it is bad grammar. When was the last time you even took an English class 1957? Your assumptions are so far off that it is pathetic you keep typing because you obviously are talking out of your A$$, and you definitely are the argumentative type because you have 12 arguments going on at the same time. Also, all because i compare realistic scenarios compared to your unrealistic ones of statistics from far different generations that doesn't mean mine are a "fantasy". The above guy gets it, you cant compare statistics from the game of basketball from the 40's, 50's or even 60's to the game being played now.

Your obviously a stubborn old guy who probably argues with the first thing you hear that comes out of someone else's mouth as well as you probably don't even pay attention to everything they are saying and too busy thinking about what your going to argue back with. Try listening to what people are saying before turning your ears off and jumping back at them.

 

[TyCatPrice14]

You seem not to understand the context of Dan Issel's stats. Yes, they are incredibly impressive, but there are some HUGE mitigating factors surrounding them. Issel played in the highest scoring era of college basketball history, and he played on one of the highest scoring teams of that era. It was also an era when it was not uncommon for a coach to force-feed his best player, getting him a ton of shots. That's why you had Maravich going for 44 a game, Austin Carr putting up over 38 per game one year, and numerous other guys (Calvin Murphy, Elvin Hayes, John Mengelt, Johnny Neumann, and more) putting up statistics that would look completely absurd in the 2011-12 version of college basketball. If you want to go by sheer statistical volume, you'll come to the conclusion that all the best players in college basketball history played from approximately the mid 50's through the late 70's. Which somehow doesn't seem possible.

You need context. It's like comparing these 2 stat lines for baseball players:

player 1- .319 BA/ .362 OB/.589 SLG/44 home runs, 146 RBI's
player 2- .290 BA/.390 OB/.547 SLG/37 HR's, 119 RBI's

Player 1 looks better on paper. But in this case, player 1 was Vinnie Castilla, a 3rd baseman for the Rockies who put those numbers up in 1998, playing in a year when the average National League team scored 4.6 runs per game, and playing in a home ballpark that wildly inflated scoring. Castilla finished 11th in the MVP voting that year

Player 2 was Mike Schmidt in 1986, playing in a year when the average National League team scored 4.18 runs per game, and in a home ballpark that was relatively unfriendly to hitters. He won the MVP that year.

Anthony Davis played on a UK team that averaged 77.4 ppg, in games where UK and its opponents combined to take an average of 115.7 FG attempts, and 38.8 FT's. Issel's senior year, he played on a UK team that averaged 96.8 ppg, in games where UK and its opponents combined to take an average of 146.5 FG attempts, and 50.9 FT's.

Think about how that effects stats. Just take rebounding as an obvious example. In Issel's senior year, the average UK game featured 90.2 rebounds. Issel averaged 13.2, and was responsible for 14.6 % of all the rebounds in UK's games. Anthony Davis "only" averaged 10.4 rebounds. But the games he played in featured an average of 70.9 rebounds, and he was responsible for almost exactly the same percentage as Issel (actually, a tiny bit more). And think about AD's shotblocking. He personally blocked nearly 8% of the opposition's FG attempts. That means that around 1 in every 13 shots the other team attempted were rejected by Anthony Davis.

There was a reason that AD won POY, and it didn't have much to do with his pro potential. It had to do with what he accomplished on the court, in the context of the year he was playing in. Issel's accomplishments in his era were obviously great, and he was, if not POY, close to it. But you can't just point at some numbers that are bigger and say that wins the argument.

Glad somebody gets it.

 

[kybassfan]

. . . don't talk like you did back in your olden time days doesn't mean it is bad grammar.

ROFL. Oh, god, and its free!!

Ok. Ty, you go back and give Mr. Mehico a "like" cause you essentially stole your first thought in that last post from him.

I do have a serious question for you. Are you a product of common core math? Not to worry if you don't know what that means. I'm just curious.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Not sure why this is such an argument. OP never said "best career". Pretty easy debate:

AD is the best and most talented player to ever play at Kentucky.
But also, AD, in no way shape or form, had the best career at Kentucky.

Not really sure how you can argue against either...

 

[TyCatPrice14]

ROFL. Oh, god, and its free!!

Ok. Ty, you go back and give Mr. Mehico a "like" cause you essentially stole your first thought in that last post from him.

I do have a serious question for you. Are you a product of common core math? Not to worry if you don't know what that means. I'm just curious.

Just terrible form of a comeback...please go back into your hole (and i don't mean that because your old)

 

[Big Foot 275]

OP said best ever to play at UK.
If he means most talented it probably Davis.
If he means best career at UK it's not even a discussion. It's Dan Issel.
Dan was a scoring machine and a great rebounder.
UK's all time leading scorer and rebounder.
9th all time leading scorer in the US professional basketball history.
If Davis passes Big Dan's pro numbers then there is more history to compare and you can make a
better argument for AD but he still has to do it.

 

[kybassfan]

Just terrible form of a comeback...please go back into your hole (and i don't mean that because your old)

So that's what the 14 means.

Umm, that wasn't a comeback. That was a question. If you are 14, then you've answered my question.

Ty, I'm very sorry. I've been poking fun at you for the last several posts. I didn't realize you were so young. I quit discussing the topic when you said I could present no argument that would change your mind. I took you at your word and started poking fun at you at that point. That was mean of me to do that and I'm sorry.

My question was serious however. Your logic is, umm, interesting, shall we say. I see that with some frequency with kids which are raised in common core. Not to worry, its a generational thing and its not under your control.

You think whatever you like about Anthony Davis. I can assure you we agree on one thing. He is an absolutely stellar basketball player. If he remains healthy, I full expect him to leave a deep mark on the NBA. I also encourage you to read more on the Kentucky Wildcats. The team you support has a much richer tradition than you know. John Calipari and Anthony Davis are just the latest chapter. We have known the best and worst of college basketball. Get to know who you are cheering for. Be careful though. It might turn you into an old fogey.

 

[Big Foot 275]

Correction on my post: Big Dan is 10th now on the all time scorer list in US professional basketball history.
Looks like he was passed recently by Dirk.

 

[kybassfan]

Correction on my post: Big Dan is 10th now on the all time scorer list in US professional basketball history.
Looks like he was passed recently by Dirk.

BF, is that counting his stent in the ABA? I recall the thought at the time was that the ABA players would never compete in the NBA. Big Dan, Dr J and a number of others surely proved them wrong.

 

[TyCatPrice14]

So that's what the 14 means.

Umm, that wasn't a comeback. That was a question. If you are 14, then you've answered my question.

Ty, I'm very sorry. I've been poking fun at you for the last several posts. I didn't realize you were so young. I quit discussing the topic when you said I could present no argument that would change your mind. I took you at your word and started poking fun at you at that point. That was mean of me to do that and I'm sorry.

My question was serious however. Your logic is, umm, interesting, shall we say. I see that with some frequency with kids which are raised in common core. Not to worry, its a generational thing and its not under your control.

You think whatever you like about Anthony Davis. I can assure you we agree on one thing. He is an absolutely stellar basketball player. If he remains healthy, I full expect him to leave a deep mark on the NBA. I also encourage you to read more on the Kentucky Wildcats. The team you support has a much richer tradition than you know. John Calipari and Anthony Davis are just the latest chapter. We have known the best and worst of college basketball. Get to know who you are cheering for. Be careful though. It might turn you into an old fogey.

I'm not offended by anything nor am I 14 years old, it is simply my favorite number. I understand your thought on saying Dan is better because of statistics, but quite frankly that isn't enough to tell me he is better. Kobe has the most points in Laker history, but he isn't better than Magic or Kareem was, and that saying the older fella's are better, before you assume you may want to ask, you might just be wrong. I can also say your logic is ummmm...inaccurate? Greatness isn't based on numbers its based on accomplishments. Keep that in mind.

 

[kybassfan]

I'm not offended by anything nor am I 14 years old, it is simply my favorite number. I understand your thought on saying Dan is better because of statistics, but quite frankly that isn't enough to tell me he is better. Kobe has the most points in Laker history, but he isn't better than Magic or Kareem was, and that saying the older fella's are better, before you assume you may want to ask, you might just be wrong. I can also say your logic is ummmm...inaccurate? Greatness isn't based on numbers its based on accomplishments. Keep that in mind.

Run along now.

 

[Big Foot 275]

Correction on my post: Big Dan is 10th now on the all time scorer list in US professional basketball history.
Looks like he was passed recently by Dirk.

 

[Big Foot 275]

BF, is that counting his stent in the ABA? I recall the thought at the time was that the ABA players would never compete in the NBA. Big Dan, Dr J and a number of others surely proved them wrong.

Yes that counts ABA and NBA. As you said there were many great players that played in the ABA that went on to become great players in the NBA.

BF, is that counting his stent in the ABA? I recall the thought at the time was that the ABA players would never compete in the NBA. Big Dan, Dr J and a number of others surely proved them wrong.

Yes that was ABA and NBA . The great players in the ABA were great players in the NBA so that was just a myth.

 

[screwduke]

He's easily the best to ever play at UK.

 

[screwduke]

I think I was quite clear. I was drawing an analogy between Woods early career and Davis early career and the folly of crowning a GOAT based merely on very early success.

What part of "fabulous" gave you heart burn?

You're analogy was god awful. I'm embarrassed for you

 

[kybassfan]

You're analogy was god awful. I'm embarrassed for you

Oh, you wound me deeply. I would probably be really upset but for one thing.

I figure there is a pretty good chance you don't know what an analogy is. Take your time on your scathing response. Google has been a little slow today.

 

[TyCatPrice14]

Run along now.

Like i said go back in your hole, or go start a Dan the Man homer post.

 

[kybassfan]

Like i said go back in your hole, or go start a Dan the Man homer post.

LOL! Kids.

 

[TyCatPrice14]

LOL! Kids.

I can attempt the last word too....Gramps.

 

[TyCatPrice14]

You going to compare career rebounds, freethrows or any other stats? The Horse is on a few of those lists.

This is why his "argument" is invalid.....FREE THROWS?!!?! Free throws, he wants to compare who the best is by how good their FREE THROWS are? psssh, Keep on fishing Bassfan.

Also if you want to talk about my grammar, you may want to check your own, make sure if your pick the GOAT, make sure he can shoot "Freethrows?"

 

[Rhavicc]

A lot of things to consider for those of you who want to put up the argument that Davis isn't the best player to ever play for Kentucky. First off, he's the most decorated freshman to play college basketball, period. He won every single possible award as a freshman. Did he score 27 points per game as a freshman? No, but that wasn't his role. He took the 4th most shots on our team and still lead the team in points per game. He dominated the NCAA defensively, broke numerous Kentucky records, NCAA tournament records, SEC records, and NCAA freshman records.

Davis' accolades in one season at Kentucky alone are as follows:

National Champion
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player
Consensus 1st team All-American
Consensus National Player of the Year
NABC Defensive Player of the Year
SEC Player of the Year
SEC Freshman of the Year
SEC Defensive Player of the Year
1st team All-SEC
USBWA National Freshman of the Year
Lead a team that ties for the most wins in a CBB season at 38 wins
Kentucky's only Naismith award winner in the history of the program
Destroyed the Kentucky blocked shots record in a season (which was previously set at 83 by Turpin and Riddick. Davis ended the season with 186)
Destroyed the SEC freshman blocked shots record in a season (set by Shaq at 116)
Surpassed the SEC single-season blocked shots record (set by Jarvin Varnado at 169)
Surpassed the NCAA single-season freshman blocked shots record (set by Hassan Whiteside at 183)
At the time, surpassed Boogie's single-season rebounding record set at Kentucky, rebounding 415 times in the season (was broken by Julius Randle, who got 417)
At the time, tied for the most double-doubles in a season by a UK freshman with Boogie (20 double-doubles, was later broken by Julius Randle, who got 24)
Tied for number of blocks in the NCAA Championship game
#1 overall draft pick

Now, if anybody here can find a player that was more decorated in a season that Davis at Kentucky, by all means, give me a name and list the decorations, I can almost guarantee you that nobody here will be able to come up with a more decorated player.

 

[kybassfan]

A lot of things to consider for those of you who want to put up the argument that Davis isn't the best player to ever play for Kentucky. First off, he's the most decorated freshman to play college basketball, period. He won every single possible award as a freshman. Did he score 27 points per game as a freshman? No, but that wasn't his role. He took the 4th most shots on our team and still lead the team in points per game. He dominated the NCAA defensively, broke numerous Kentucky records, NCAA tournament records, SEC records, and NCAA freshman records.

Davis' accolades in one season at Kentucky alone are as follows:

National Champion
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player
Consensus 1st team All-American
Consensus National Player of the Year
NABC Defensive Player of the Year
SEC Player of the Year
SEC Freshman of the Year
SEC Defensive Player of the Year
1st team All-SEC
USBWA National Freshman of the Year
Lead a team that ties for the most wins in a CBB season at 38 wins
Kentucky's only Naismith award winner in the history of the program
Destroyed the Kentucky blocked shots record in a season (which was previously set at 83 by Turpin and Riddick. Davis ended the season with 186)
Destroyed the SEC freshman blocked shots record in a season (set by Shaq at 116)
Surpassed the SEC single-season blocked shots record (set by Jarvin Varnado at 169)
Surpassed the NCAA single-season freshman blocked shots record (set by Hassan Whiteside at 183)
At the time, surpassed Boogie's single-season rebounding record set at Kentucky, rebounding 415 times in the season (was broken by Julius Randle, who got 417)
At the time, tied for the most double-doubles in a season by a UK freshman with Boogie (20 double-doubles, was later broken by Julius Randle, who got 24)
Tied for number of blocks in the NCAA Championship game
#1 overall draft pick

Now, if anybody here can find a player that was more decorated in a season that Davis at Kentucky, by all means, give me a name and list the decorations, I can almost guarantee you that nobody here will be able to come up with a more decorated player.

I really don't think anyone is debating his accomplishments in his first and only year. I don't think you brought a single new fact to the table that all of us don't already know. Old news.

 

[Gary4UK]

I've never seen Wah wah Jones play, but in his time he was good... AD is special, and I've been watching the cats for a long time and I've not seen a better player than him.. I've seen from the Runts, to big Dan, to Robey and Phillips and Givens, ect, etc... JMO

 

[Rhavicc]

I really don't think anyone is debating his accomplishments in his first and only year. I don't think you brought a single new fact to the table that all of us don't already know. Old news.

Well we're discussing who the best player in Kentucky's history is, so of course it should be old news. If you're going by sheer talent, I don't think anybody here should be able to debate that as well. Was without-a-doubt the most imposing figure defensively in that season, and he was one of, if not the most imposing figure offensively that year as well. Anybody that can average over 4.7 blocks per game and shoot 63% from the field, and have the offensive arsenal that he had with his length and athleticism, it's pretty hard to argue a better player in the history of our program. Have players had more points? Of course, but I don't think any are as talented as Davis was at that point.
The only certainty is that we definitely did not have a player that continued that success nearly as well as AD did.

 

[kybassfan]

Well we're discussing who the best player in Kentucky's history is, so of course it should be old news. If you're going by sheer talent, I don't think anybody here should be able to debate that as well. Was without-a-doubt the most imposing figure defensively in that season, and he was one of, if not the most imposing figure offensively that year as well. Anybody that can average over 4.7 blocks per game and shoot 63% from the field, and have the offensive arsenal that he had with his length and athleticism, it's pretty hard to argue a better player in the history of our program. Have players had more points? Of course, but I don't think any are as talented as Davis was at that point.
The only certainty is that we definitely did not have a player that continued that success nearly as well as AD did.

That's fair enough. However, when we're talking about assessing the best in Kentucky history, I'm not sure that talent is the only measure and that's a relatively subjective measure. I also don't think that anyone is debating who has made the greatest single year contribution. That is Davis. End of story. In terms of career contribution, best player, etc, that is Dan Issel and there is similarly not much room for debate there. If we're to evaluate overall basketball talent and impact to the sport, then I still content that Davis must be allowed to finish his work. As someone pointed out yesterday, Issel has left a fairly significant career footprint on professional basketball. There is every indication that Davis will do so as well. In fact it could be huge, but we need to let him do that.

Its pretty difficult to discuss careers and career accomplishments when a person is just starting one. We all agree Davis has great potential. Maybe for some that is enough. I'm just not a "would'a, should'a" kind of guy. I am certain Davis is not either. In 10 -15 years this is an easy discussion to have. Right now, its speculation. Davis is simply too talented and too accomplished to have to rest on speculation.

 

[bthaunert]

A lot of things to consider for those of you who want to put up the argument that Davis isn't the best player to ever play for Kentucky. First off, he's the most decorated freshman to play college basketball, period. He won every single possible award as a freshman. Did he score 27 points per game as a freshman? No, but that wasn't his role. He took the 4th most shots on our team and still lead the team in points per game. He dominated the NCAA defensively, broke numerous Kentucky records, NCAA tournament records, SEC records, and NCAA freshman records.

Davis' accolades in one season at Kentucky alone are as follows:

National Champion
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player
Consensus 1st team All-American
Consensus National Player of the Year
NABC Defensive Player of the Year
SEC Player of the Year
SEC Freshman of the Year
SEC Defensive Player of the Year
1st team All-SEC
USBWA National Freshman of the Year
Lead a team that ties for the most wins in a CBB season at 38 wins
Kentucky's only Naismith award winner in the history of the program
Destroyed the Kentucky blocked shots record in a season (which was previously set at 83 by Turpin and Riddick. Davis ended the season with 186)
Destroyed the SEC freshman blocked shots record in a season (set by Shaq at 116)
Surpassed the SEC single-season blocked shots record (set by Jarvin Varnado at 169)
Surpassed the NCAA single-season freshman blocked shots record (set by Hassan Whiteside at 183)
At the time, surpassed Boogie's single-season rebounding record set at Kentucky, rebounding 415 times in the season (was broken by Julius Randle, who got 417)
At the time, tied for the most double-doubles in a season by a UK freshman with Boogie (20 double-doubles, was later broken by Julius Randle, who got 24)
Tied for number of blocks in the NCAA Championship game
#1 overall draft pick

Now, if anybody here can find a player that was more decorated in a season that Davis at Kentucky, by all means, give me a name and list the decorations, I can almost guarantee you that nobody here will be able to come up with a more decorated player.

We all know the accolades he got and they are second to none. Some of us feel there might have been better players here and also that his success has some to do with the state of watered down college basketball today. In the old days, a guy like Boogie would have been a junior when AD was a freshman. I take Boogie in that match-up every day of the week. With that said, what he accomplished here is remarkable and what he can accomplish as a pro has the ability to be second to none.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

@Rhavicc without a doubt, his freshman year is the single most decorated season in the history of College Basketball. No one has had a better, more accomplished season than Anthony Davis.

 

[screwduke]

Oh, you wound me deeply. I would probably be really upset but for one thing.

I figure there is a pretty good chance you don't know what an analogy is. Take your time on your scathing response. Google has been a little slow today.

I think you don't know what an analogy is.

 

[Xception]

I would take a Fr A Davis over a Sr Sam Bowie or Dan Issel .

 

[kybassfan]

I think you don't know what an analogy is.

LOL. That's funny. You just sent a couple of folks on the board that know me rolling in the floor.

 

[kybassfan]

I saw Issel play many times. Davis was more talented.

Players only get to play in their era, so you have to try to level that playing field accepting the circumstances of the times.
Even saying that, objectively, Davis did INDIVIDUAL things Issel never did: Issel, for example, never won SEC Player of the Year, never mind National Player of the Year (Pete Maravich had something to say about it.) He was an All-America for two years -- but not in his sophomore year. Davis won all those awards as a freshman. Issel can't make a clear-cut claim to being the best college player in any of his years -- of course Lew Alcindor was around until Issel was a junior, but even as a senior Bob Lanier and Pete Maravich were arguably better players. Is there any argument that AD is going to go down as the best basketball player to play in 2012?

Again, no new data. Ironic you mention Lanier though. That guy was a beast till he banged up his knee. Don't think he really ever lived up to his potential after that, though he did see some good years. Maravich is, in my opinion, one of the most underrated players in history.

I also saw Issel play many times. I also know his numbers in the books. The flaw in your reasoning is that you are assuming that Davis career will follow along exactly the same path that a single year took while he was in college. However, when we are talking best ever at Kentucky, we're talking over a career. If Davis has to stop playing right now, he has not made the contribution to KY nor to the NBA that Issel did. As someone pointed out, Issel is the tenth leading scorer all time in professional basketball. However, if you just allow Davis to have a career, you don't have to speculate.

Its this way, you are willing to proclaim him best ever at Kentucky without the stats to back it up. I'm saying you may be right but I'm not going to pile on till he has the stats to back it up. I'm not saying Davis sucks (as some of you have insinuated, I am saying I expect Davis to have a long and great career. I'll measure it when its in the books.

 

[kybassfan]

I'm not trying to win a debate, or state more than my opinion, but since you have quoted me, I'll note that you missed my fundamental point: I saw them both, and in my opinion Issel could not dominate a game even as a senior the way Davis could as a freshman. All the statistics and other evidence aside, that makes him the better player -- and the best to play at Kentucky, which was the OP's challenge.

I don't quite follow the "contribution to Kentucky" argument on Issel's behalf. If that is the issue, you might say Mashburn who had the most to do as a player to revive a fallen program, or Ralph Beard, who was the spark plug for the Fabulous Five, which first put UK on the national map. Just because Issel accumulated the best career stat line that doesn't make him either the best to play at kentucky (Davis) or the one who made the greatest contribution (Mashburn, Beard, whoever.)

Yeah, I read it, I saw them both. I disagree with your assessment of Issel. He dominated games without the supporting cast that Davis had. Of course, I understand that is not relevant because it doesn't support your conclusion.

I also find it funny when folks draw a conclusion that doesn't match the data they want to set the data aside. My point is that if we simply let Davis have a career, his STATS may make all this a moot point because he may have the stats to back up the assertions you are trying to speculate about. I want to make Davis' case based on data, not a bunch of awards that sports writers and coaches voted on. That's hard to do when he hasn't created the data yet.

 

[bthaunert]

I would take a Fr A Davis over a Sr Sam Bowie or Dan Issel .

It's an interesting conversation. I would have loved to see Bowie as a freshman at UK if the game was like today where all of the best players leave after 1 or 2 years. The same year Bowie was a freshman was when Sampson was a freshman. Neither were even honorable mention all american that year because guys stayed 4 years. I would say that in his era (late 90's on when guys started leaving after 1 or 2 years pretty consistently), Davis is right up there with them all.

 

[kybassfan]

It's an interesting conversation. I would have loved to see Bowie as a freshman at UK if the game was like today where all of the best players leave after 1 or 2 years. The same year Bowie was a freshman was when Sampson was a freshman. Neither were even honorable mention all american that year because guys stayed 4 years. I would say that in his era (late 90's on when guys started leaving after 1 or 2 years pretty consistently), Davis is right up there with them all.

Yeah, a healthy Bowie would have made this discussion even more murky if he could have logged 4 good years.

 

[Gary4UK]

It's an interesting conversation. I would have loved to see Bowie as a freshman at UK if the game was like today where all of the best players leave after 1 or 2 years. The same year Bowie was a freshman was when Sampson was a freshman. Neither were even honorable mention all american that year because guys stayed 4 years. I would say that in his era (late 90's on when guys started leaving after 1 or 2 years pretty consistently), Davis is right up there with them all.

Sam Bowie was really, really good.... I would place AD, Sam, Issel as three of UK's best players.... AD, I would put as #1, but because Cal didn't coach him.. Sam was ahead of his time..