A look at Cal's merry go around recruiting

[K_TIME]

Cal's lost his recruiting punch and it's a complete merry-go-round as he can't get it done and he can't get a kid to settle in to the program. We are getting maybe 1 solid year and the rest just transfer out. This is why I can't get up for any more great recruiting classes as they hardly every live up to hype and then they leave way too early or just transfer out and stay multi years at 2nd school.

2022:
Thiero - we'll see
Wallace - good year
Livingston - I'd call his year below avg for collegiate wing player
Ugo - we'll see how long he sticks

2021:
Collins - basically gave us zilch
Hopkins - gave us essentially nothing....goes to Providence and is multi year
Shady Sharpe - geez louise
TyTy - solid but not great year

2020:
Boston - bad year and gone
Clarke - turned an ankle in Dec and essentially sat out the rest
Fletcher- zilch
Ware - only a hustle players
Isiaih Jackson - decent but not what I'd call a very good year.

2019:
Juzang - didn't play until last 2 weeks and left to stick at UCLA
Maxey - really good year
Brooks - decent but goes to Washington and stays
Whitney - zilch
Allen - 1 good game and leaves

 

[know1]

It's not really a recruiting issue if they aren't staying. That's a development issue. These players realize after being here that Cal isn't going to make them any better and they leave.

And lately, they also realize the team won't have any decent success either, so why bother?

 

[IroquoisPliskin]

No one is getting many players for more than a year. Arkansas has about 10 newcomers next year

 

[Wildcats1st]

I can’t go that far with Livingston. He didnt see significant minutes until midway his freshman season and was improving when the season was ending . Next year he would be a force

 

[gharding07]

Tyty was fantastic before he got hurt. But yeah he's the only impactful freshman we've had lately. Wallace turned it on a bit at the end of the year, but yet again was dinged up at the end. Common theme.

 

[wldctky]

Cal's lost his recruiting punch and it's a complete merry-go-round as he can't get it done and he can't get a kid to settle in to the program. We are getting maybe 1 solid year and the rest just transfer out. This is why I can't get up for any more great recruiting classes as they hardly every live up to hype and then they leave way too early or just transfer out and stay multi years at 2nd school.

2022:
Thiero - we'll see
Wallace - good year
Livingston - I'd call his year below avg for collegiate wing player
Ugo - we'll see how long he sticks

2021:
Collins - basically gave us zilch
Hopkins - gave us essentially nothing....goes to Providence and is multi year
Shady Sharpe - geez louise
TyTy - solid but not great year

2020:
Boston - bad year and gone
Clarke - turned an ankle in Dec and essentially sat out the rest
Fletcher- zilch
Ware - only a hustle players
Isiaih Jackson - decent but not what I'd call a very good year.

2019:
Juzang - didn't play until last 2 weeks and left to stick at UCLA
Maxey - really good year
Brooks - decent but goes to Washington and stays
Whitney - zilch
Allen - 1 good game and leaves

2021 TYTY was just starting to hit his stride until Oscar couldn't get his fat foot out of the way....season went down hill from there

 

[docholiday51]

No one is getting many players for more than a year. Arkansas has about 10 newcomers next year

True but they(Ark) get something out of them while the players are there. If we get something out of 1 of 3 players who come in we are lucky. Not to mention players who might help never get to the floor due to Cal

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

This is not a UK issue. It’s an NCAA basketball issue.

There are 358 Division I programs. Over 1,400 players have entered the transfer portal this year. 4 per team.

 

[Oldbluefart]

It's too damn bad they don't have a portal for coaches or some sort of waiver system.

 

[ck-2]

Haven’t seen him.

 

[bpfree]

Saying he's lost his recruiting touch after what we just learned about the Hunter Dickinson meeting is a stretch. What you really mean is that recruits who have been ranked so high haven't panned out. Yeah that's a Cal issue, but you would probably also put down similar things about Davis and MKG because they only stayed one season. UK fans hate players that don't find success at UK, and then immediately admire them the minute they find success elsewhere. The reason Hopkins didn't get more time at UK was easier to see than ever before during the round 1 tournament game. Jacob Toppin made him look like a middle schooler out there, and Hopkins couldn't handle it.

 

[K_TIME]

This is not a UK issue. It’s an NCAA basketball issue.

There are 358 Division I programs. Over 1,400 players have entered the transfer portal this year. 4 per team.

Wrong...and excuse for Cal's ineptitude.

Sure it's a bigger issues than it used to be....but plenty of teams are able to maintain a solid starting and depth unit to win games for their program....but Cal is lacking waaaaayyyy back in the pack for UK.

UConn - had all multi year UConn kids that won it all. I think one transfer was in theri top 5 kids
San Diego St - had multi year guys and again...maybe 1 transfer in their top kids
Houston - All Houston kids and only 1 was like a Fr in top players. The rest were multi year kids
UCLA - A bigger program...all of those kids are multi year with UCLA from the get go. And if Cronin can get kids to put up with him....no excuse for Cal.
Zags - just about all Zaga kids for multi year

Miami is about the only top 10 team that was mostly transfer in kids. Alabama was a super Fr class led but sprinkled in some vets (which I think should be UK's recipe). But what Cal is doing will never work yet we sit here every year and let him make UK look like a "used to be" program".

The notion we'll win next year with all Fr while Livingston, Oscar, etc...all transfer out and we'll be really good is not going to work. We have to keep Reeves, Oscar, Livingston and then add in some Fr...

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

To me it's plainly obvious that Calipari has very sub-par player evaluation skills. He is so in love with dudes that have five *'s next to their name that he can't fill the roster with players that address the team's needs.
He brings in a bunch of ego's and then you have no one willing to just be bench guys or role-players. So, you get a revolving door made worse by easy access to the transfer portal.

 

[bpfree]

UConn - had all multi year UConn kids that won it all. I think one transfer was in theri top 5 kids
San Diego St - had multi year guys and again...maybe 1 transfer in their top kids
Houston - All Houston kids and only 1 was like a Fr in top players. The rest were multi year kids
UCLA - A bigger program...all of those kids are multi year with UCLA from the get go. And if Cronin can get kids to put up with him....no excuse for Cal.
Zags - just about all Zaga kids for multi year

All of these teams have a mixture of Multi-year guys, Freshmen, and Transfers. Not a single one of them is made up of strictly one thing. The funnier part of this is looking at the average minutes/player for each team. Gonzaga and UCLA didn't go to their bench near as often as the other 3 teams. In my opinion that shows just how random college basketball truly is. There's no clear option that is the winning solution.

 

[bpfree]

To me it's plainly obvious that Calipari has very sub-par player evaluation skills. He is so in love with dudes that have five *'s next to their name that he can't fill the roster with players that address the team's needs.
He brings in a bunch of ego's and then you have no one willing to just be bench guys or role-players. So, you get a revolving door made worse by easy access to the transfer portal.

So many things wrong with what you just said here. To start with Player Evaluation, please watch the NBA Playoffs. I recommend the Kings since they have my 2nd favorite UK Duo of all time. Now for your 2nd statement. Antonio Reeves was the 19th highest scorer in the country his last season at Illinois State. He just won the 6th man award for the SEC, and he's rumored to be coming back for a 2nd year. Davion Mintz was a starting PG who lost his spot to injury, and became a very important piece off the bench in his two years. Nick Richards was supposed to be a one and done, and after struggling in his freshman year stayed at UK and was important for two more seasons. Lance Ware has accepted his role, and should be celebrated as the only player on this year's team to not take any shit from anyone. Adou Theiro has apparently accepted his role. Derek Willis, Domonique Hawkins, I mean how far do you want to go.

 

[JFCats22]

Wrong...and excuse for Cal's ineptitude.

Sure it's a bigger issues than it used to be....but plenty of teams are able to maintain a solid starting and depth unit to win games for their program....but Cal is lacking waaaaayyyy back in the pack for UK.

UConn - had all multi year UConn kids that won it all. I think one transfer was in theri top 5 kids
San Diego St - had multi year guys and again...maybe 1 transfer in their top kids
Houston - All Houston kids and only 1 was like a Fr in top players. The rest were multi year kids
UCLA - A bigger program...all of those kids are multi year with UCLA from the get go. And if Cronin can get kids to put up with him....no excuse for Cal.
Zags - just about all Zaga kids for multi year

Miami is about the only top 10 team that was mostly transfer in kids. Alabama was a super Fr class led but sprinkled in some vets (which I think should be UK's recipe). But what Cal is doing will never work yet we sit here every year and let him make UK look like a "used to be" program".

The notion we'll win next year with all Fr while Livingston, Oscar, etc...all transfer out and we'll be really good is not going to work. We have to keep Reeves, Oscar, Livingston and then add in some Fr...

This is so wrong it’s laughably stupid. Congratulations

 

[K_TIME]

This is so wrong it’s laughably stupid. Congratulations

Go find me the top players on those teams and tell show me they are mainly transfers for true freshmen. The simple answer is you won't.

 

[bpfree]

Go find me the top players on those teams and tell show me they are mainly transfers for true freshmen. The simple answer is you won't.

Based off starting lineups alone.

Gonzaga - Rasir Bolton - Transfer
UCLA - Amari Bailey - Freshman
UCONN - Tristen Newton - Transfer
SDSU - Darrion Trammell - Transfer
Houston - Jarace Walker - Freshman

They're not the top players, but they're key guys. No team is made up of 5 Drew Timme's. If they were they would suck because they would have zero guards.

 

[dl51344]

In Cal's system, with exceptions of coarse, you come in as a freshman starter. With exceptions,a bench player can't put in hard work, get better, and expect his time will come. Next year new starters will be brought in. That is why after a year going nowhere with Cal players transfer. Last 2 years were somewhat an except to that pattern but I think s back on tract with it this year. JMO.

 

[K_TIME]

Based off starting lineups alone.

Gonzaga - Rasir Bolton - Transfer
UCLA - Amari Bailey - Freshman
UCONN - Tristen Newton - Transfer
SDSU - Darrion Trammell - Transfer
Houston - Jarace Walker - Freshman

They're not the top players, but they're key guys. No team is made up of 5 Drew Timme's. If they were they would suck because they would have zero guards.

Geez....you just proved my point on your own.

Zags...Timme, Strawther, Anton Watson...were their top players...nobody even debates that. Do they have like 1-2 guys in their 9 man rotation. Sure. But they are built mainly off multi year dudes they recruit out of HS and develop

UCLA...come on dude...are you serious now? Jacquez, TIger Campbell, Jaylen Clarke are their dudes. Amari Bailey is a Fr that they recruited and 4th leading scorer way behind those three dude mentioned above.

UConn....Sanogo is elite on that team and been there for 3 years. He makes that team go. Newton is a piece...I'll grant you that. But the rest of the top players are all UConn kids out of HS.

Houston...Sasser is an all american and 4 year player. Walker is a player but again....Houston recruited him out of HS.

I am not saying not one single player in a great team's rotation isn't transfer or a freshman. But the vast majority of the team are multi year dudes just about every team. Kansas last year....almost all multi year kids that played at Kansas for years (Agbaji, Braun, McCormick, Jaylen Wilson, etc..). What Cal is trying to do has not been working and unless Oscar, Livingston and Reeves come back...it ain't working this year.

 

[bpfree]

Geez....you just proved my point on your own.

Zags...Timme, Strawther, Anton Watson...were their top players...nobody even debates that. Do they have like 1-2 guys in their 9 man rotation. Sure. But they are built mainly off multi year dudes they recruit out of HS and develop

UCLA...come on dude...are you serious now? Jacquez, TIger Campbell, Jaylen Clarke are their dudes. Amari Bailey is a Fr that they recruited and 4th leading scorer way behind those three dude mentioned above.

UConn....Sanogo is elite on that team and been there for 3 years. He makes that team go. Newton is a piece...I'll grant you that. But the rest of the top players are all UConn kids out of HS.

Houston...Sasser is an all american and 4 year player. Walker is a player but again....Houston recruited him out of HS.

I am not saying not one single player in a great team's rotation isn't transfer or a freshman. But the vast majority of the team are multi year dudes just about every team. Kansas last year....almost all multi year kids that played at Kansas for years (Agbaji, Braun, McCormick, Jaylen Wilson, etc..). What Cal is trying to do has not been working and unless Oscar, Livingston and Reeves come back...it ain't working this year.

What's your opinion of Lance Ware?

 

[bnewt]

To me it's plainly obvious that Calipari has very sub-par player evaluation skills. He is so in love with dudes that have five *'s next to their name that he can't fill the roster with players that address the team's needs.
He brings in a bunch of ego's and then you have no one willing to just be bench guys or role-players. So, you get a revolving door made worse by easy access to the transfer portal.

been saying for years that ccc could not evaluate talent......he only sees stars and that is what he recruits & promises playing time too

 

[bnewt]

So many things wrong with what you just said here. To start with Player Evaluation, please watch the NBA Playoffs. I recommend the Kings since they have my 2nd favorite UK Duo of all time. Now for your 2nd statement. Antonio Reeves was the 19th highest scorer in the country his last season at Illinois State. He just won the 6th man award for the SEC, and he's rumored to be coming back for a 2nd year. Davion Mintz was a starting PG who lost his spot to injury, and became a very important piece off the bench in his two years. Nick Richards was supposed to be a one and done, and after struggling in his freshman year stayed at UK and was important for two more seasons. Lance Ware has accepted his role, and should be celebrated as the only player on this year's team to not take any shit from anyone. Adou Theiro has apparently accepted his role. Derek Willis, Domonique Hawkins, I mean how far do you want to go.

wow, if you are satisfied with players like Mintz & Reeves, then your expectations have fallen like ccc's reputation.
In prime years, Mintz would have been 8th or 9th man in the rotation. Reeves is so inconsistent that he can not be counted on for consecutive games. Willis was treated like a dog even though he put up decent numbers in limited time. The only reason he got extended time was injuries. UK hasn't had a decent outside forward scoring threat since Willis, but go on and cheer for your inept coach & staff. You probably think Bruiser was a good addition to the staff and contributes

 

[mdlUK.1]

No one is getting many players for more than a year. Arkansas has about 10 newcomers next year

Don’t bother them with facts. Are you insane?

 

[bnewt]

Geez....you just proved my point on your own.

Zags...Timme, Strawther, Anton Watson...were their top players...nobody even debates that. Do they have like 1-2 guys in their 9 man rotation. Sure. But they are built mainly off multi year dudes they recruit out of HS and develop

UCLA...come on dude...are you serious now? Jacquez, TIger Campbell, Jaylen Clarke are their dudes. Amari Bailey is a Fr that they recruited and 4th leading scorer way behind those three dude mentioned above.

UConn....Sanogo is elite on that team and been there for 3 years. He makes that team go. Newton is a piece...I'll grant you that. But the rest of the top players are all UConn kids out of HS.

Houston...Sasser is an all american and 4 year player. Walker is a player but again....Houston recruited him out of HS.

I am not saying not one single player in a great team's rotation isn't transfer or a freshman. But the vast majority of the team are multi year dudes just about every team. Kansas last year....almost all multi year kids that played at Kansas for years (Agbaji, Braun, McCormick, Jaylen Wilson, etc..). What Cal is trying to do has not been working and unless Oscar, Livingston and Reeves come back...it ain't working this year.

as bad as I dislike Kansas, they are a good example of multi year players that improve over the years. Self doesn't rely on all 5* freshmen, plus, he actually knows how to coach

 

[Catfan2226]

Based off starting lineups alone.

Gonzaga - Rasir Bolton - Transfer
UCLA - Amari Bailey - Freshman
UCONN - Tristen Newton - Transfer
SDSU - Darrion Trammell - Transfer
Houston - Jarace Walker - Freshman

They're not the top players, but they're key guys. No team is made up of 5 Drew Timme's. If they were they would suck because they would have zero guards.

And Gonzaga just added Ryan Nembhard from Creighton and Graham Ike from Wyoming...2 big additions

 

[K_TIME]

What's your opinion of Lance Ware?

1. He's not a top line interior collegiate PF
2. I'm fine having him on roster as a depth guy....but he needs to be 8 min game to rest starters.
3. That being said.....it's a joke on him that he can't shoot above 40% on FT and so badly offensive skillsets

But in terms of UK...it's a joke that we take guys like Boston, Clarke, Livingston, Hopkins, Fletcher, Collins, etc...come to UK and can't wait to leave and have no desire to develop themselves. Anyone that has a pulse could have seen Fletcher, Hopkins, Livingston, Collins had no business wondering about doing anything but being in college a few years to develop. But these mindsets tend to hardly end up a UK.

 

[Untouchables22]

The College game has fundamentally changed with the NIL and transfer portal. If a player doesn’t make the primary playing rotation they transfer. If they get offered more money or exposure at another school they transfer. If the coaching staff changes they transfer. It’s not realistic to expect to be able to keep anyone more than 1 year anymore. And you also can’t expect to sign any big time transfers if you don’t have an obvious hole for playing time. UK, Kansas, and UNC are turning over most of their teams this off-season (specifically all the bench guys) . Signing a college basketball player and expecting anything more than a 1 year commitment is unrealistic in the current landscape. Not much Kentucky as a school or Cal as a coach can do about that.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

This is not a UK issue. It’s an NCAA basketball issue.

There are 358 Division I programs. Over 1,400 players have entered the transfer portal this year. 4 per team.

But we're not losing 4 players per year. We're losing about 6, if you count the guys who are choosing late-first round, 2nd round, and G-League. And we're not losing lottery picks, but guys like Boston and Ty Ty who are barely carrying a cup of coffee in the NBA.

The last three years of mediocrity, we've lost these early departures: Wheeler, Wallace, Livingston (likely), Toppin, Collins, (maybe) Oscar, Fredrick, Ty Ty, Sarr, Boston, Clarke, Fletcher, Jackson, Brooks, Hopkins, Askew, and Allen. None were top 27 picks. None were lottery picks.

That's 17 players in 3 years, or almost 6 per year (even if Oscar returns and Ware goes).

That's a significantly higher average amount of early departures than most programs. Treating it like we're somehow "part of the pack" when it comes to players bolting early is disingenuous. It's part of Cal's job, at $9 million per year, to figure out ways to build more continuity.

 

[mebeblue2]

Cal's lost his recruiting punch and it's a complete merry-go-round as he can't get it done and he can't get a kid to settle in to the program. We are getting maybe 1 solid year and the rest just transfer out. This is why I can't get up for any more great recruiting classes as they hardly every live up to hype and then they leave way too early or just transfer out and stay multi years at 2nd school.

2022:
Thiero - we'll see
Wallace - good year
Livingston - I'd call his year below avg for collegiate wing player
Ugo - we'll see how long he sticks

2021:
Collins - basically gave us zilch
Hopkins - gave us essentially nothing....goes to Providence and is multi year
Shady Sharpe - geez louise
TyTy - solid but not great year

2020:
Boston - bad year and gone
Clarke - turned an ankle in Dec and essentially sat out the rest
Fletcher- zilch
Ware - only a hustle players
Isiaih Jackson - decent but not what I'd call a very good year.

2019:
Juzang - didn't play until last 2 weeks and left to stick at UCLA
Maxey - really good year
Brooks - decent but goes to Washington and stays
Whitney - zilch
Allen - 1 good game and leaves

disagree with about half of your glass half empty thoughts

 

[UKBB4Ever]

833 wins. 6 FF's. FF at every school he's coached.

Let's see the resumes of the coaches here.

 

[kybassfan]

Nothing in the thread is relevant anymore. NIL/portal completely changed the ballgame. SHOW ME DA MONEY!!!

 

[K_TIME]

But we're not losing 4 players per year. We're losing about 6, if you count the guys who are choosing late-first round, 2nd round, and G-League. And we're not losing lottery picks, but guys like Boston and Ty Ty who are barely carrying a cup of coffee in the NBA.

The last three years of mediocrity, we've lost these early departures: Wheeler, Wallace, Livingston (likely), Toppin, Collins, (maybe) Oscar, Fredrick, Ty Ty, Sarr, Boston, Clarke, Fletcher, Jackson, Brooks, Hopkins, Askew, and Allen. None were top 27 picks. None were lottery picks.

That's 17 players in 3 years, or almost 6 per year (even if Oscar returns and Ware goes).

That's a significantly higher average amount of early departures than most programs. Treating it like we're somehow "part of the pack" when it comes to players bolting early is disingenuous. It's part of Cal's job, at $9 million per year, to figure out ways to build more continuity.

Well stated!

We’re not losing bench guys going to western Ky like Allen.

It’s mostly top line dudes that aren’t nba dudes (or barely at best) Cal roster fiasco is by far the biggest issue

 

[Oboro3]

If you get your head out of the sand, this is happening at all schools...

Sorry to bust your bubble

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Recruiting had dipped. This upcoming seasons class is more like early UK calipari.

Let's see who returns and what transfers we can mesh with the freshman and see how it goes.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

As I have said before...Calipari would be happy with 3-4 Fresh. McD AA's, 2-3 transfers and 2-3 Honor Roll kids to sit the bench and allow him to keep crowing about team GPA. This is what he wants every year.
Again, it doesn't really matter who is on the roster. Calipari isn't winning shit in his remaining time at UK. No SEC regular seasons or tournaments and no NCAA titles. His system is antiquated, his lack of any in-game adjustments/bizarre substitution patterns and his total lack of any offensive creativity make UK an easy out.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

833 wins. 6 FF's. FF at every school he's coached.

Let's see the resumes of the coaches here.

#1. You're not a real Kentucky fan. Everyone knows that by now in light of your silly Sharpe threads.

#2. No profession or positive relationship on earth is predicated on what you do 10 years ago as opposed to what you've done in recent time. If you use your fidelity at the start of your marriage to excuse your infidelity in recent times, she's still going to send you packing.

This is basic logic. Stop insulting our intelligence with your goofball rantings and trolling.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Cal’s classes have been really weak since 2016. The last great class was Fox, Monk, and Bam. That was three top 10 prospects that played up to their expectations. That team should have been in the Final Four and could have won a title.

I am hoping this class is more like that one. For the first time since the 2016 class we have three or more top 10 guys. The closest thing we have had was Boston and Clarke (who barely played because of injury) both being top 10 but we had nothing to go with them and that year was just an all-around disaster from the start.

On paper, this group looks stronger. Wagner and Edwards seem like “dogs” to me. I haven’t seen much of Dillingham, but he has been described as one as well. Bradshaw is also a top 5 recruit.

So I am waiting to see if this class is as good as advertised.

We shall see, but I am encouraged because we haven’t seen this much elite Freshmen talent at UK in some time.

If Cal bows out early this season, it’s definitely time to part ways. Of course, I don’t get to make that call, so it’s a moot point.

 

[kl40504]

Cal's lost his recruiting punch and it's a complete merry-go-round as he can't get it done and he can't get a kid to settle in to the program. We are getting maybe 1 solid year and the rest just transfer out. This is why I can't get up for any more great recruiting classes as they hardly every live up to hype and then they leave way too early or just transfer out and stay multi years at 2nd school.

2022:
Thiero - we'll see
Wallace - good year
Livingston - I'd call his year below avg for collegiate wing player
Ugo - we'll see how long he sticks

2021:
Collins - basically gave us zilch
Hopkins - gave us essentially nothing....goes to Providence and is multi year
Shady Sharpe - geez louise
TyTy - solid but not great year

2020:
Boston - bad year and gone
Clarke - turned an ankle in Dec and essentially sat out the rest
Fletcher- zilch
Ware - only a hustle players
Isiaih Jackson - decent but not what I'd call a very good year.

2019:
Juzang - didn't play until last 2 weeks and left to stick at UCLA
Maxey - really good year
Brooks - decent but goes to Washington and stays
Whitney - zilch
Allen - 1 good game and leaves

Thanks