'96 Cats

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Recently watched a Youtube video on The Untouchables, and have a few observations:
1) First and foremost: Anthony Epps is the most underrated player in UK's history. (Brief argument: orchestrated UK's most dominant, talent-rich team, and was in fact the catalyst for the dominance--remember how crappy we looked against UMass, before Pitino inserted him into the starting line-up; shot 40% from the 3 w/ @ an 8-1 assist to turnover margin during the tournament!!)
2) I'd forgotten how good Mercer had become by the time the tournament began. Dude was moving like a big cat on the floor and his jump-shot was butter
3) That team played defense like the ball was a meaty bone and they were a pack of starving wolves.

 

[UK90]

The best thing Epps did was become proficient enough to enable Tony Delk to move over to his natural shooting guard spot.

When Pitino stopped trying to make Delk run point and kept him at the two …where he emerged as the best all around guard in the entire country ..was when that team hit another gear and became virtually unbeatable.

That change can’t happen unless Epps proves he’s up to his end of the deal.

 

[bthaunert]

Epps is always brought up as the most underrated player in UK history. Question...if a player is always brought up in that context, are they no longer underrated? I loved his game and he was great in that 90's run, but is he truly underrated?

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Epps is always brought up as the most underrated player in UK history. Question...if a player is always brought up in that context, are they no longer underrated? I loved his game and he was great in that 90's run, but is he truly underrated?

Yes. If his name were mentioned every time someone started a "Who's your all-time starters" type thread, then the answer would obviously be no. But he's not, and his play was at a level where he should at least be in the conversation, imo.

 

[UK90]

Epps is always brought up as the most underrated player in UK history. Question...if a player is always brought up in that context, are they no longer underrated?

This is a question I remember being posed long ago (with some clever examples) in an early Bill Simmons article. Can a player be cited as underrated so many times that he eventually becomes overrated?

And I think Epps might be a UK example of that. He's been called underrated so often over the years that I think some folks now remember him as better than he actually was. Yep, he started on one of the greatest teams of all time. But, let's be honest, there were around nine or ten other players on that roster more talented than him. He got put in the starting lineup because the only other real point on the roster (Turner) was a freshman that Pitino deemed not quite ready to start yet.

 

[bthaunert]

Yes. If his name were mentioned every time someone started a "Who's your all-time starters" type thread, then the answer would obviously be no. But he's not, and his play was at a level where he should at least be in the conversation, imo.

We differ drastically in our assessment of him as I don't think he should be in the conversation of "all-time starters". He was a great piece of the puzzle for that team, and I really like his game, but he's not in that conversation.

 

[H00SIER-Cat]

I wonder if he was a higher rated WR than WCS.

I remember talk of him playing football for the Cats after he was done with basketball.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

The antithesis of a calipari player. A glue guy who made the team better by his mere presence.

 

[BlueSince92]

Recently watched a Youtube video on The Untouchables, and have a few observations:
1) First and foremost: Anthony Epps is the most underrated player in UK's history. (Brief argument: orchestrated UK's most dominant, talent-rich team, and was in fact the catalyst for the dominance--remember how crappy we looked against UMass, before Pitino inserted him into the starting line-up; shot 40% from the 3 w/ @ an 8-1 assist to turnover margin during the tournament!!)
2) I'd forgotten how good Mercer had become by the time the tournament began. Dude was moving like a big cat on the floor and his jump-shot was butter
3) That team played defense like the ball was a meaty bone and they were a pack of starving wolves.

❤️ Loved that team. Thanks for bringing back the memories. Also letting you know that my laugh smiley is at your last line. I consider it one of the great tragedies of our era that lowbrows have basically shifted 🤣 from meaning, “that’s funny” to meaning, “I don’t like you and I want to reduce your social credit.”

 

[HagginHall1999]

This is a question I remember being posed long ago (with some clever examples) in an early Bill Simmons article. Can a player be cited as underrated so many times that he eventually becomes overrated?

And I think Epps might be a UK example of that. He's been called underrated so often over the years that I think some folks now remember him as better than he actually was. Yep, he started on one of the greatest teams of all time. But, let's be honest, there were around nine or ten other players on that roster more talented than him. He got put in the starting lineup because the only other real point on the roster (Turner) was a freshman that Pitino deemed not quite ready to start yet.

I don't think he is necessarily underated, more "unsung".

He was the epitome of a winner and really an ideal point guard for that team. You really couldn't have asked for more than what he provided. Distributed and took care of the ball, really good 3 pt and FT shooter. Perfect fit. Heart of a lion. Clutch.

 

[UK90]

I don't think he is necessarily underated, more "unsung".

I’m not sure how the words unsung and underrated much differ in this conversation. He hardly seems like he’s all that unsung when he’s the very first name our posters start singing whenever these “underrated” type debates are brought up.

The lead argument in those discussions usually seems to be that he was the starting point guard on one of the greatest teams of all time in 96. Which is true. But it’s also true that he did not play true starter minutes that season ..as he only averaged just over 22 minutes per game and just over 6 ppg. Which certainly ain’t what teams normally expect from their starting point guard.

He was one helluva role player who played his role extremely well. But I think UK fans over the years have overplayed the narrative that he’s underrated to the point where he’s now almost become overrated.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

The antithesis of a calipari player. A glue guy who made the team better by his mere presence.

You mean like AD? Or Wall? Or Knight? How about Ulis, or Monk? Maybe Miller? Or a little used player like Hawkins?

You gotta be a diehard CHC member to blame Cal in an Epps thread.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I’m not sure how the words unsung and underrated much differ in this conversation. He hardly seems like he’s all that unsung when he’s the very first name our posters start singing whenever these “underrated” type debates are brought up.

The lead argument in those discussions usually seems to be that he was the starting point guard on one of the greatest teams of all time in 96. Which is true. But it’s also true that he did not play true starter minutes that season ..as he only averaged just over 22 minutes per game and just over 6 ppg. Which certainly ain’t what teams normally expect from their starting point guard.

He was one helluva role player who played his role extremely well. But I think UK fans over the years have overplayed the narrative that he’s underrated to the point where he’s now almost become overrated.

Unsung and underrated are certainly similar. To me unsung is more about how important whereas underrated is more about how good.

22mpg was 4th on team in '96. Epps is 2nd all time in assists at UK. #19 3FG %, #12 3FGM.

He was far from a role player, JMHO. He was the perfect PG for those teams in mid/late '90's.

I think the thing is with Epps...he was sort of forgettable. No accolades, nothing flashy, just business. I bet a lot of our fans don't realize how high he is on career stats. His AoT has to be top 5...I would guess 2nd to Ulis.

 

[JumperJack]

This is a question I remember being posed long ago (with some clever examples) in an early Bill Simmons article. Can a player be cited as underrated so many times that he eventually becomes overrated?

And I think Epps might be a UK example of that. He's been called underrated so often over the years that I think some folks now remember him as better than he actually was. Yep, he started on one of the greatest teams of all time. But, let's be honest, there were around nine or ten other players on that roster more talented than him. He got put in the starting lineup because the only other real point on the roster (Turner) was a freshman that Pitino deemed not quite ready to start yet.

He was not one of the five best. He was one of the best five.

 

[Kybluedude]

Walk on ….correct?

Not sure Pitino really wanted him.

But he sure ended up needing that Ky guy.

Couldn’t recruit the intangibles Anthony brought with him and wouldn’t have won a title without him.

Hmmm.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Walk on ….correct?

Not sure Pitino really wanted him.

But he sure ended up needing that Ky guy.

Couldn’t recruit the intangibles Anthony brought with him and wouldn’t have won a title without him.

Hmmm.

No, he was on scholly. Came in with Shep.

 

[NociHTTP]

The antithesis of a calipari player. A glue guy who made the team better by his mere presence.

Versus ones who sit on the bench making their team better in practice and never doing a damn thing game-time.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

I’m not sure how the words unsung and underrated much differ in this conversation. He hardly seems like he’s all that unsung when he’s the very first name our posters start singing whenever these “underrated” type debates are brought up.

The lead argument in those discussions usually seems to be that he was the starting point guard on one of the greatest teams of all time in 96. Which is true. But it’s also true that he did not play true starter minutes that season ..as he only averaged just over 22 minutes per game and just over 6 ppg. Which certainly ain’t what teams normally expect from their starting point guard.

He was one helluva role player who played his role extremely well. But I think UK fans over the years have overplayed the narrative that he’s underrated to the point where he’s now almost become overrated.

The "only 22 minutes per game" argument seems bogus when you consider minute distribution for that entire team. I'm not sure the leading minutes person got 30 minutes per? And the only guard on the roster who logged more time than Epps was Delk...the team's leading minutes getter

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

No, he was on scholly. Came in with Shep.

Pitino was trying to get Epps to walk on...he was trying to hold on to his last scholarship for some kid (name escapes me) who ended up jumping to the pros. Only after the other kid declared his intentions did Rick finally cave in to the pressure to sign Anthony. Epps was prepared to accept an offer from Crum and UL rather than walk-on at UK

 

[HagginHall1999]

Pitino was trying to get Epps to walk on...he was trying to hold on to his last scholarship for some kid (name escapes me) who ended up jumping to the pros. Only after the other kid declared his intentions did Rick finally cave in to the pressure to sign Anthony. Epps was prepared to accept an offer from Crum and UL rather than walk-on at UK

Was it Scott Rolen? I recall a story about UK recruiting him and that would have been timeframe. Then he picked mlb draft instead.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Was it Scott Rolen? I recall a story about UK recruiting him and that would have been timeframe. Then he picked mlb draft instead.

No...this guy went nba draft.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Was it Scott Rolen? I recall a story about UK recruiting him and that would have been timeframe. Then he picked mlb draft instead.

I may be misremembering the draft part...just checked the list of kids who went straight from high school and couldn't find anybody from the '93 class who did it. Tracy McGrady, who I thought might have been the one, went in '97

 

[HagginHall1999]

I may be misremembering the draft part...just checked the list of kids who went straight from high school and couldn't find anybody from the '93 class who did it. Tracy McGrady, who I thought might have been the one, went in '97

Baseball draft. Scott Rolen, Phillies/Cards/Reds, HOF

 

[bthaunert]

Baseball draft. Scott Rolen, Phillies/Cards/Reds, HOF

I think Rolen signed with UGA.

 

[UK90]

I think Rolen signed with UGA.

Correct. Rolen originally committed to Georgia on a basketball scholarship. I don’t know if UK recruited him, but he was once a rather highly regarded basketball prospect (a finalist for the Indiana Mr. Basketball award).

But, considering that he just made the Hall of Fame, he obviously made the right choice by choosing the baseball route.

 

[TCurtis75]

Correct. Rolen originally committed to Georgia on a basketball scholarship. I don’t know if UK recruited him, but he was once a rather highly regarded basketball prospect (a finalist for the Indiana Mr. Basketball award).

But, considering that he just made the Hall of Fame, he obviously made the right choice by choosing the baseball route.

Pitino was recruiting Rolen and probably would've signed him but Sheppard signed/committed first and we only had room for one at the time. Probably worked out best for all involved. Rolen had a great baseball career, Shep had a great career here, and UK got Reed 20+ years later.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I think Rolen signed with UGA.

Yep, you are correct. I remember where story came from now...it was Ryan Lemond. He said he was first person to interview Rolen while he was in HS. Said Rolen was a UK target. Your UGA comment sparked my memory...

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

I own Antoine Walker's NCAA championship ring. He sold it to me after he filed bankruptcy. I'll probably keep it forever, but often wonder what I could get for it. Since I collect memorabilia, I also have Johnny Cox's NCAA title ring.

 

[bthaunert]

I own Antoine Walker's NCAA championship ring. He sold it to me after he filed bankruptcy. I'll probably keep it forever, but often wonder what I could get for it. Since I collect memorabilia, I also have Johnny Cox's NCAA title ring.

You paid $21,500 to purchase it? Money bags!

 

[BlueSince92]

You paid $21,500 to purchase it? Money bags!

You should have seen what he paid for Monica Lewinsky's dress.

 

[ruppcat]

Unsung and underrated are certainly similar. To me unsung is more about how important whereas underrated is more about how good.

22mpg was 4th on team in '96. Epps is 2nd all time in assists at UK. #19 3FG %, #12 3FGM.

He was far from a role player, JMHO. He was the perfect PG for those teams in mid/late '90's.

I think the thing is with Epps...he was sort of forgettable. No accolades, nothing flashy, just business. I bet a lot of our fans don't realize how high he is on career stats. His AoT has to be top 5...I would guess 2nd to Ulis.

I think we call that a "blue collar" kind of player. Shows up. Does his work. Doesn't talk smack.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

You should have seen what he paid for Monica Lewinsky's dress.

Not as much as Bill...

 

[the nail at the foul line]

You mean like AD? Or Wall? Or Knight? How about Ulis, or Monk? Maybe Miller? Or a little used player like Hawkins?

You gotta be a diehard CHC member to blame Cal in an Epps thread.

Sharpe, Whitney, Boston, And yourself B Rad.

 

[BlueSince92]

Not as much as Bill...

😂 Well played!

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

You paid $21,500 to purchase it? Money bags!

Less than 1/3 of that, actually.

 

[bthaunert]

Less than 1/3 of that, actually.

Nice! I just remember him selling it and looked it up and there were articles about someone buying it for $21,500. Great item for a collector.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Correct. Rolen originally committed to Georgia on a basketball scholarship. I don’t know if UK recruited him, but he was once a rather highly regarded basketball prospect (a finalist for the Indiana Mr. Basketball award).

But, considering that he just made the Hall of Fame, he obviously made the right choice by choosing the baseball route.

Rolen was a really good basketball player. Multiple HM offers. Was set to play both sports at UGA....

Played aginst him in HS...Lot of folk dont realize how good this dude was.