5th year transfers

[crestcat]

I kind of like the rule for the athletes but I'm concerned about unethical coaches going out and recruiting these kids. Maybe some sort of limit on how many a school can take.

For fifth year students I'm not sure it is fair to the first school. They have four years of scholarship for three years of play and they are going to lose the player for what is usually their most productive year.

 

[marshalfan]

Scholarships are renewable every and a scho can drop a player anytime. Cal failed to renew some scholarships his first year here

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I was curious how many of you like this rule? I personally hate it. Why should players get a 5th year of eligibility? Does anyone actually believe that Lewis and Lee transferred to UL to take classes not available at their old schools? All this has become, is a way for players who could not get drafted, the previous year, to get another year to raise their stock and possibly get drafted. It also gives coaches, who cannot recruit, like Pitino, the opportunity to bring in players. Just another NCAA rule that doesn't make sense.

What? Why do you care if a player gets a 5th year? Does it affect your life at all? Is it hurting anyone? It just baffles me that this bothers anyone. You should work for the NCAA.

 

[Untouchables22]

Honestly if a coach in any sport leaves for another job or is fired there entire team should be let out of their LOI's and be immediately eligible to transfer and play without sitting out like the UAB football players were when UAB dropped football 2 years ago. But it isn't about the kids and it hasn't been since the games became televised. The NCAA trying to promote amateurism idea's is like a whore trying to preach about abstinence.

 

[OOOOOOO]

It gives Pitino a chance finely recruit a One & Done

 

[JimBR]

Hell imagine us with out Mays in '13...as bad as we were we would have been straight garbage that year with out him. Same with UL this year, take one or both of those guys away and they suck yak balls.

Agree. Louisville would be terrible without Lee and Lewis. Pitino knew he had to bring in players or they would be in trouble. My guess is he went after those kids hard. Good for them and it helped the cards avoid what otherwise would have been a disastrous season. Probably a losing record in ACC play and maybe the nit.

 

[Indy Cat]

I was curious how many of you like this rule? I personally hate it. Why should players get a 5th year of eligibility? Does anyone actually believe that Lewis and Lee transferred to UL to take classes not available at their old schools? All this has become, is a way for players who could not get drafted, the previous year, to get another year to raise their stock and possibly get drafted. It also gives coaches, who cannot recruit, like Pitino, the opportunity to bring in players. Just another NCAA rule that doesn't make sense.

I wish this rule had been in place in 1954

 

[willievic]

I guess Pitino is getting into the one and done recruiting. Lee and Lewis are the first two I can recall, oh, I forgot about the ones he run off because he wanted someone else and didn't have the scholarships unless he got rid of someone with a scholarship.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[loublue22]

I think it's fine. UL would have been really bad without them this year, so now they'll just be really bad next year.

 

[PushupMan]

Would you have thought it a great rule, if Alex had transferred to UL, since he had already graduated? I just think that it is unfair, since it is not about these guys getting more education. If it were, they would get a masters degree in whatever their major was. Does anyone actually think that UL just magically has some graduate program that other schools do not, that just happens to be what these guys wanted to get a masters in? Baloney. It is simply to play basketball, and has little to do with education. And, I didn't like it when Julius was here, either. It isn't a good rule, regardless of who uses it. JMO.

It's an extremely good rule that is "pro-student". Jared Swopshire took advantage of this rule to transfer from Louisville and get a master's degree from Northwestern.

Bottom line is, schools cannot have it both ways. If a school wants the "exclusive rights" to a player for five straight years, then they would need to offer a five year scholarship instead of the one year scholarships that most schools currently offer. It would be pretty arrogant for schools to offer one year scholarships and then attempt to claim that they have the right to dictate where someone goes to grad school.

 

[tmuck]

I bet you Pitino will sign another one next season since he's losing both Lee and Lewis. They have Snider and Mitchell coming back, but they need another guard who can contribute right away.

 

[PushupMan]

I bet you Pitino will sign another one next season since he's losing both Lee and Lewis. They have Snider and Mitchell coming back, but they need another guard who can contribute right away.

You have a pretty good handle on Louisville's roster. Pitino has actually said that he would be interested in signing one more grad student for next year, and either a point guard or combo guard does make the most sense.

 

[ville 77]

I was curious how many of you like this rule? I personally hate it. Why should players get a 5th year of eligibility? Does anyone actually believe that Lewis and Lee transferred to UL to take classes not available at their old schools? All this has become, is a way for players who could not get drafted, the previous year, to get another year to raise their stock and possibly get drafted. It also gives coaches, who cannot recruit, like Pitino, the opportunity to bring in players. Just another NCAA rule that doesn't make sense.

It is a good rule!
First of all the players don't get a 5th year. The NCAA rule is any player in any sports has a 5 year window to play 4 years. Some players especially in football redshirt a year and some players miss a whole season due to injury. If a player has graduates from their current school and has 1 year left from their 4 years to play they can transfer to another school to start on a masters degree.

Why should a player who takes care of his academics and graduates on time be rewarded with the option to find a program that better fits his or her needs? Take Towels for example. He worked his butt off at UK for 4 years and graduated early. UK has told him Barkers is the guy so he is moving to where he has a chance to play. I think that is fair and it gives a player incentive to take care of his or her academics.

In the case of Lee and Lewis both guys graduated in 4 years and neither guy has ever played in the NCAA tourney or had a chance to play in a major conference spotlight. They now get the chance.

As for going to class both guys enrolled early this summer and have already completed the summer and fall semester. Both are smart kids that probably will not be NBA guys and they are going to class every bit as much as anybody on UK or most other teams.

 

[ville 77]

I bet you Pitino will sign another one next season since he's losing both Lee and Lewis. They have Snider and Mitchell coming back, but they need another guard who can contribute right away.

I think Pitino would love to fins another 5th year guy like Lewis or Lee but they are not easy to find. Most Basketball players don't redshirt so unless they miss a season like Lee did for injury did they don't have a 4th year after graduation.

You guys act like Pitino is the only coach who would like players like this. Both guys had other options. It is not like Pitino calls them them up and try's to steal them. Kids who qualify and want to move on let it be know.

Schools like UL who are looking to fill wholes make it public that they might have a need and they let players say they are interested.

Take Towels. He announced he was leaving UK after graduation and wanted to transfer and then his people make contact with school they think might have a need for his position.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I actually think it's a brilliant move to go after some quality 5th year transfers. To think you could get a player with 3 years of college ball playing experience, 3 years of weight training, 3 years of practicing, film, etc etc......it's a pretty good deal.

Some of these kids were more than likely highly rated coming out of high school and maybe didn't pan out at their original school of choice so took a juco route etc.

Who would you rather have for a year. A raw 5-star freshmen just barely 18 years old with zero experience? Or a 5th year transfer that was maybe a 4-star or high 3-star, now with 3 years of experience and a matured body?

 

[kybassfan]

Not sure where some of this is coming from. Some of these rules have been around a long time.

The 5 to make 4 rule has been in place a long time. Seems like it was around when I ran track back in the 70's.

The shady part is the transfer after graduation. I always thought it was a bit dodgy to give a player a free transfer after graduating. To my mind, a transfer is a transfer. If you lay out a year as a sophomore, you should lay out as a grad student. I think this rule has been around for awhile too.

That said, as morally bankrupt, socially inept and pathetic a human being as Pitino is, playing those grad students was not at all questionable and that practice has been around a long time. It is just fairly rare. It is kinda funny when a UL fan thinks it's some form of one and done. Maybe it's another side effect of meth abuse, loss of memory.

 

[hoodro]

saw a ul fan ask the question "if we win the ncaa title this year, how long before the done and 1 rule is outlawed?" i like the rule. it helps the kids and it helps the game. win win.

The NCAA has already been talking about getting rid of this rule . Not exactly sure of their reasoning as to why, but the idea of not allowing it anymore has been discussed.

 

[marshalfan]

There is nothing shady about getting graduated players

 

[kybassfan]

The NCAA has already been talking about getting rid of this rule . Not exactly sure of their reasoning as to why, but the idea of not allowing it anymore has been discussed.

I'd have to see a reference on that. NCAA has such rules to enable student athletes. It's the sort of rule they are least likely to change.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I actually think it's a brilliant move to go after some quality 5th year transfers. To think you could get a player with 3 years of college ball playing experience, 3 years of weight training, 3 years of practicing, film, etc etc......it's a pretty good deal.

Some of these kids were more than likely highly rated coming out of high school and maybe didn't pan out at their original school of choice so took a juco route etc.

Who would you rather have for a year. A raw 5-star freshmen just barely 18 years old with zero experience? Or a 5th year transfer that was maybe a 4-star or high 3-star, now with 3 years of experience and a matured body?

We would not likely get a 4-star grad transfer. Most of the guys that do this are mid-majors and were probably 3-stars or lower out of HS.

So, I would want my stars to be 5-star Freshmen like John Wall and KAT, but I would want a nice 3-star grad student coming off the bench. Preferably one that can shoot lights out.

Look at a guy like Julius Mays. He wasn't starting material (he started, but he wasn't really cut out to do so), but he would be nice to have right now coming off the bench when we needed shooting.

I was hoping that Mulder could play that role, but once again (as I have said many times before)- never trust a JUCO in their first year of D-1 to give you anything.

Imagine replacing Mulder with Lee or Lewis on this team. We are likely undefeated right now.

 

[kybassfan]

We would not likely get a 4-star grad transfer. Most of the guys that do this are mid-majors and were probably 3-stars or lower out of HS.

So, I would want my stars to be 5-star Freshmen like John Wall and KAT, but I would want a nice 3-star grad student coming off the bench. Preferably one that can shoot lights out.

Look at a guy like Julius Mays. He wasn't starting material (he started, but he wasn't really cut out to do so), but he would be nice to have right now coming off the bench when we needed shooting.

I was hoping that Mulder could play that role, but once again (as I have said many times before)- never trust a JUCO in their first year of D-1 to give you anything.

Imagine replacing Mulder with Lee or Lewis on this team. We are likely undefeated right now.

And that's the whole 'trick' so to speak. Top drawer athletes among grad transfers are very rare. Might be interesting to find out how the Crypt Keeper managed to 'hook' these.

 

[hoodro]

I'd have to see a reference on that. NCAA has such rules to enable student athletes. It's the sort of rule they are least likely to change.

Google it. There are plenty of articles about it. A lot of P5 Commissioners, Athletic Directors and Coaches do not like the rule and have been complaining about it to the NCAA. The new NCAA Vice President even publicly said that addressing the rule is one of first priorities. The talk is to make the players sit out a year like every other transfer.

Not saying that I care about the rule because it really makes no difference to me, but not all Conference Commissioners, Athletic Directors, Coaches, etc... agree with the rule. Matter of fact, the rule first came into place in '05 or '06 and by '11 the SEC had banned the rule for football.

 

[kybassfan]

Google it. There are plenty of articles about it. A lot of P5 Commissioners, Athletic Directors and Coaches do not like the rule and have been complaining about it to the NCAA. The new NCAA Vice President even publicly said that addressing the rule is one of first priorities. The talk is to make the players sit out a year like every other transfer.

Not saying that I care about the rule because it really makes no difference to me, but not all Conference Commissioners, Athletic Directors, Coaches, etc... agree with the rule. Matter of fact, the rule first came into place in '05 or '06 and by '11 the SEC had banned the rule for football.

I'll check it out. I like the idea that a transfer is a transfer.

 

[hoodro]

I'll check it out. I like the idea that a transfer is a transfer.

Here you go. This is just one of the many. There have been plenty of other opinion pieces written about it.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/wri...wrong-for-trying-to-end-best-rule-for-players

 

[kybassfan]

Here you go. This is just one of the many. There have been plenty of other opinion pieces written about it.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/wri...wrong-for-trying-to-end-best-rule-for-players

Yeah, just finished reading a few pieces on it. Sounds like the rule has a long history of changes. In one recent year, around 50 of 650 transfers fell under the rule with only 8 of those moving to top tier schools from mid majors. It remains a very popular rule among academics. A key logistic issue with the year layout among grad students is the 5 to make 4 rule. The clock starts on when you enter school. So say you red shirt and your name isn't Poythress, a year layout would be 4 +1 +1 = 6. Looks like they have some twiddling to do before they change it.

I dunno how big a mess you make for 50 kids. I'm guessing it stands as is. Who knows though.

Was an interesting read. I really didn't know the rule had such a strange history. It was also different at times for revenue versus non revenue sports. Maybe why I recall it different for track. Lord knows we never made anyone any money back in the day.

 

[CreekerCat]

...Does anyone actually think that UL just magically has some graduate program that other schools do not, that just happens to be what these guys wanted to get a masters in?...

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other D1 programs that offer Master and PhD level programs in Principles of Pimpin' or Concepts of Pole Dancing--Just UofL. However, they could also be enrolled in UofL's Dorm Room Management Program as well.

 

[CreekerCat]

They could also be enrolled in UofL's Advanced Sign Language program--taught by Professor Pimptino himself. He was just providing them with a real world example after the game this weekend.

 

[the stat man]

Huh, someone actually thought they transferred to U Of Smell to go to class ? lol don't think so ! They heard about the clean white women !!

 

[Myth Buster51]

Of course. I understand they only get four years, but every other player that transfers, has to sit a year, before using their last year of eligibility. I just think the rule is unfair.

Incorrect. Juco players generally aren't required to sit a year, and I haven't seen a movement to change that rule.

 

[blubo]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other D1 programs that offer Master and PhD level programs in Principles of Pimpin' or Concepts of Pole Dancing--Just UofL. However, they could also be enrolled in UofL's Dorm Room Management Program as well.

i think you're mistaken about the Principles of Pimpin' program. i'm pretty sure they don't offer anything with Principles.