3 guard lineup not working for this team
- Thread starter UK3K
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Cal will never in a million years have Briscoe come off the bench for those of you proposing that.
The placement of Briscoe is problematic. as stated before, he HAS to paly (hopefully to keep him from being a big blemish on the Cal 5* pipeline). He's a great college gaurd. But he's not better than Fox or Monk at the 1 and 2 position so...he man's the 3 a lot. In the grande scheme of things this may be hurting us more than helping us.
Briscoe is anything but "solid".
If this continues to be his team our odds of making the Final Four decrease
I would like to see more of SKJ and a little less of Humphries and Gabriel
We definitely need to improve on defense and right now no one seems to play it
Bam is coming around.
We need better passing and better shot selection.
I guess I will just let Cal figure this out lol since no one is paying me anything to figure it out !
Well, we can put SKJ in at the 4 instead, but then you have only one guy that could hit the 3 starting. Poor offensive balance. So, we are back to being bigger, but having no outside game at all.
Put Mulder in at the 3, and we are back to being small, but at least we have two shooters. But Mulder plays better with Briscoe with him on the floor, so I put him on the second unit.
We really don't have great options at the 3, but I think if Gabriel can get better defensively, his length at the 3 can help us.
If not, just stick with Briscoe as a small 3. At least he can rebound for a 6'3 guy.
Yes, it's a good thing I am not the coach. I bet the same could be said for you.
It's as simple as this:
If an elite coach, college or pro, spent a few weeks with this team and was asked what lineup would stand the best chance of winning, he would not in a million years come to the conclusion that it's the lineup that Cal has been running out there.
As many have said, this is a loyalty issue. Briscoe's defensive abilities are negated by the fact that he is guarding 3's and offensively, he is a liability in the half court.
As a lifelong Bengals fan who has seen the stubbornness of Marvin Lewis year in and year out - I have read this book before. Cal will continue giving Briscoe over 30 minutes per game and we will not be a threat in March because of it.
We will continue to see this team struggle against quality competition (good thing the SEC blows) and we will have this same conversation every time we lose. And the homers will continue to tell everyone that Cal is the one who gets paid millions, etc. etc.
If an elite coach, college or pro, spent a few weeks with this team and was asked what lineup would stand the best chance of winning, he would not in a million years come to the conclusion that it's the lineup that Cal has been running out there.
As many have said, this is a loyalty issue. Briscoe's defensive abilities are negated by the fact that he is guarding 3's and offensively, he is a liability in the half court.
As a lifelong Bengals fan who has seen the stubbornness of Marvin Lewis year in and year out - I have read this book before. Cal will continue giving Briscoe over 30 minutes per game and we will not be a threat in March because of it.
We will continue to see this team struggle against quality competition (good thing the SEC blows) and we will have this same conversation every time we lose. And the homers will continue to tell everyone that Cal is the one who gets paid millions, etc. etc.
It's just really hard to find a perfect lineup for this team.
Gabriel is not playing well, yet. He has potential and could be a defensive menace by the end of the year or next year.
Briscoe is a good defender, but is defending bigger guys and is an offensive liability.
Willis can't guard a fence post, but his shooting stretches the floor.
SKJ is just not ready yet to help. Hump isn't ready either. Bam is the only big we really have and he is just learning to post up.
Fox can't shoot, but other than that, he is a stud.
Monk is easily the best player on the team, but he isn't a good defender.
I guess we just have to let Cal sort it out. Remember, we are starting four Freshmen, they are bound to get better. It's just December.
I just love to talk about possibilities. I definitely am glad the coaching staff gets to decide what to do, because if this board made the call, we would probably be 2-10 instead of 10-2.
Gabriel is not playing well, yet. He has potential and could be a defensive menace by the end of the year or next year.
Briscoe is a good defender, but is defending bigger guys and is an offensive liability.
Willis can't guard a fence post, but his shooting stretches the floor.
SKJ is just not ready yet to help. Hump isn't ready either. Bam is the only big we really have and he is just learning to post up.
Fox can't shoot, but other than that, he is a stud.
Monk is easily the best player on the team, but he isn't a good defender.
I guess we just have to let Cal sort it out. Remember, we are starting four Freshmen, they are bound to get better. It's just December.
I just love to talk about possibilities. I definitely am glad the coaching staff gets to decide what to do, because if this board made the call, we would probably be 2-10 instead of 10-2.
I would agree that we don't see the players at practice and who deserves the minutes and how many for each game. This has to be the problem with Mulder and SKJ right now because a perfect example is last night Mulder hits 2-3 from 3 and gets 8 minutes of playing time. SKJ for third straight game is not even playing like he was in the first 8-9 games. Mulder has done this before coming in and draining the three but only plays 8 or 9 minutes a game. I still feel that Mulder should play 15-20 mpg but it won't happen at Kentucky and Coach Cal this year. It seems that when we have these 5* players like a Fox, Monk, Bam, and Gabriel that come in they get the 35 minutes a game which doesn't leave too many minutes for a Mulder, SKJ, Hump, etc. This year and even in the UNC game it felt like we are seeing Fox, Monk, Briscoe, and sometimes Bam getting the 35 minutes and then you have Gabriel and Willis splitting the 4 minutes. Then we see Mulder, Hawkins, and SKJ getting 5-10 minutes a game. Last night you have Mulder scoring 2 threes and you would think he would get 15-20 minutes but still gets his 8 minutes. That is what I don't understand with this Rotation yet is that if one player is not hitting the shot or playing the 'D' we have decent players like Mulder and SKJ that can come in and help this team. Mulder just seems to be such a better player this year and has more confidence in his outside shot and 3 point shot. Mulder even seems to be playing better on the defensive side of the ball.
I guess my point is, what is Gabriel giving UK right now that Hump or SKJ couldn't. Love Gabriel but maybe at least something a little different to see what happens.
3 guards can work if 2 of the three can shoot efficiently enough from the field and free throw stripe, but that simply isn't the case for our 3 lead guards, we have one that can do that..
Right now Cal is clearly going with a rim running line up to showcase his lottery picks and potential picks in the open court, and that is fine until we run up against teams that have comparable talent on the court as well as comparable coaching talent.
If it wasn't for Monk we'd be 0-3 vs tourney caliber teams with good coaches and equal talent.
In addition to two of our lead guards being inconsistent and inefficient our 4 is a thin project that is unreliable. Gabriel is a very nice prospect with a high ceiling, but you can say that about a lot of guys, some pan out and make the pros, some transfer to U of Cal after not panning out.
Bam needs help in the front court, but Hump isn't getting the minutes. It's also hard for him to perform at the 15-20 ppg level when the guards are running out and laying bricks before he can get back get and easy lay up/put back or have the offense run through him in the half court.
Right now Cal is clearly going with a rim running line up to showcase his lottery picks and potential picks in the open court, and that is fine until we run up against teams that have comparable talent on the court as well as comparable coaching talent.
If it wasn't for Monk we'd be 0-3 vs tourney caliber teams with good coaches and equal talent.
In addition to two of our lead guards being inconsistent and inefficient our 4 is a thin project that is unreliable. Gabriel is a very nice prospect with a high ceiling, but you can say that about a lot of guys, some pan out and make the pros, some transfer to U of Cal after not panning out.
Bam needs help in the front court, but Hump isn't getting the minutes. It's also hard for him to perform at the 15-20 ppg level when the guards are running out and laying bricks before he can get back get and easy lay up/put back or have the offense run through him in the half court.
The three guard lineup works fine. There's just a give and take to it.
We put more pressure on the defense but we also can be left exposed in the halfcourt.
Being able to score in 3-4 seconds after a made basket is a function of the three guard lineup.
This is a different kind of team this year. We are that fast team that everyone has wanted for 20 years.
Probably will never be a team that absolutely chokes out the other team. But we have to be better at getting a stop and securing a rebound when necessary. That's the difference right now between 10-2 and 12-0.
For my money, 10-2 and scoring 90 PPG = working. But we still have work to do.
We put more pressure on the defense but we also can be left exposed in the halfcourt.
Being able to score in 3-4 seconds after a made basket is a function of the three guard lineup.
This is a different kind of team this year. We are that fast team that everyone has wanted for 20 years.
Probably will never be a team that absolutely chokes out the other team. But we have to be better at getting a stop and securing a rebound when necessary. That's the difference right now between 10-2 and 12-0.
For my money, 10-2 and scoring 90 PPG = working. But we still have work to do.
Mulder needs to be getting Willis' minutes. He can shoot and rebound at least as well, and much better defensively.
A friend of mine in the horse industry is friends with Cal. He wanted me to tell all of you that Cal reads Rupp Rafters daily,and said thanks for the line up adjustments advise. ....
Part of the problem is that Briscoe is one of the 5 best players on the team. I woud rate them something like:
1. Monk
2. Bam
3. Fox
4. Briscoe
Then we get into roll players.
Willis/Gabriel/Hump/Mulder/Hawkins
As mentioned, the pf position is a problem with Willis & Gabriel. Bam seems more like a pf than a center, but a lineup of Hump, Bam, Briscoe, Fox & Monk clogs the middle & leaves no one to come in for the front court.
IMO, our recruiting has to get better balance. We need a true SF.
1. Monk
2. Bam
3. Fox
4. Briscoe
Then we get into roll players.
Willis/Gabriel/Hump/Mulder/Hawkins
As mentioned, the pf position is a problem with Willis & Gabriel. Bam seems more like a pf than a center, but a lineup of Hump, Bam, Briscoe, Fox & Monk clogs the middle & leaves no one to come in for the front court.
IMO, our recruiting has to get better balance. We need a true SF.
The biggest problem with this team is the same problem we've had for several years now. No true SF on the entire roster. Mulder is the closest thing we have to one and he's still a bit small.
But what if those two guards can score - and do so very well - and create more opportunities for others to score? Does it only count if it's a 3 point shot? And what if those two guards net more points than they allow? Is that useful? Is that how you win? Or is the game much simpler than that, and all we really need to focus on is what a players 3 point percentage is? I'm just asking.
No, the "biggest problem with this team" is the four spot, not the three. Briscoe is obviously a flawed and undersized 3, but he is still covering our starting needs at that position better than either Gabriel or Willis is doing at the 4.
Amazed how some don't see that--appears obvious to me. Sure, it would be nice if we had some prototypical SF superstud there--but you can't have everything you want--and that spot is NOT "the biggest problem" position with this team, instead the 4 is.
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And Johnny David is a cowboy that rides an ostrich. Just glad it is not March and they still have some time to improve their basketball skill defects and Cal still has time to tweek.
I saw zero evidence of him calming the freshman.
He's a liability right now. Has to play much better.
We had one in Charles Matthews. Wish he would have stayed, I think he would be getting some minutes each game.
Good teams will force our guards to take outside jumpers come tourney time. The teams that can make shots will advance and the ones who can't, won't. That's why I'm advocate of getting Mulder more minutes and experience to have another outside threat. I'd like to see fox Monk and Mulder starting at the 1 2 and 3 but that will never happen.
Nothing really. But he appears to be one of Cal's players, meaning one who will get playing time so he may as well be part of the solution.
All this works in concert. Briscoe is overweight and a 6-2 guard weighing 225 pounds that cant shoot. The weight makes him more than a step slow and he is trying but not being successful at guarding a 3 that is 6-6 or 6-7 with quickness. Briscoe should be weighing 200-205 tops. Now the second half of this problem is what it is doing to Bam. Bam is getting doubled down inside and when the ball swings to Briscoe outside, his defender drops inside to in effect be triple teamed. There is simply a cause and effect to all this and it unfortunately begins with Cal and Briscoe. There is really only one correction but Im pretty sure it wont happen. In the mean time enjoy a lot of high flying and unbelievable plays.
Yes longer better teams will exploit this. It will also stunt Bam,who could be a dominant player by the end of the year, by clogging the lane. I'm so disappointed in both Willis and WG I would roll SKJ for 25 mpg and see if he takes the leap. It should be about building to beat the elite teams in the end.
The problem with your claim, however, is that you have no idea what an elite coach, college or pro, would think. You’re just not on that level.
A lot of people who have played or watched a game for some time – whether it’s basketball, chess or poker, etc. – are convinced that they understand the correct way to play. But they just don’t. They have a superficial understanding of the game. Their lack of in depth understanding is obvious to others, but never themselves.
Calipari is a professional coach, and one of very best in the business. You and I are not. We on this message board are fans. We question. We complain. That’s what we fans do – and that’s all well and good. But any fan on a message board who thinks he has a better understanding about anything regarding a UK player’s basketball ability or what is best for the success of the UK basketball team is delusional.
Had to click on unignore to see who you were talking to.
You are trying to speak rationally to an irrational poster.
Kudos to you for the attempt, but you'd accomplish just as much by banging your head with a hammer for the next 6 weeks.
Thanks for the heads up. I know that I’m often dumb as a box of rocks about a lot of things. But the level of undeserved arrogance on this board by some in regard to their perceived superiority of basketball knowledge vis-a’-vis Cal blows my mind.
