I loved Tubby. He did amazing jobs in 98 and 03. Coach of the Year stuff. His problem was he was always losing guys early (not to the NBA), so the program kept losing momentum. And Saul. Sheesh. Bring in a stud point guard and use Saul as your top guy off the bench. He was 10-0 in the first round of the tournament. Those of us who remember Hall losing to UAB and Middle Tennessee in back-to-back years appreciate that.
1997 Kentucky Coaching Search
- Thread starter HoptownCat93
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1) Subbing players is normal, i wouldnt hang a banner for doing what any high school coach would do.
2) Cats were finally hitting shots, making 3's....why would a team hitting shots call a time-out? Silly credit.
3) Again, im waiting for a legitimate reason he outcoached. If Padgett and Mills didn't hit those 3, which was obviously out of Tubby's control, can you still say he out coached?
Yes, I do remember the players on that team. I give you a list of a bunch of the scholarship players on the team. Also, BCG got the commitment from Patterson who made the list of McDonald AAs to 2 on the roster. Alex Legion was a BCG recruit who was one of the 3 parade AA’s (including Patterson) on the roster.
1. Perry Stevenson
2. Ramon Harris
3. Derrick Jasper
4. AJ Stewart
5. Mark Coury
6 Michael Porter
7. Jarred Carter
8. Morakinyo Williams
The only 4 stars on that list are Stevenson who was awful and Jasper who was not good either. So when you look at the roster it was probably the worst in non probation history.
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I don’t see how you could know that. CM didn’t interview or even consider any other candidates. Who knows what other great candidates might have been interested.
Would you hang a banner for making the final four? How about winning the whole thing? The right subs at the right time got us there.
And as for ifs, if your dad hadn’t left to go get that pack of smokes, you might have seen him again and not grown up to such a shit stain.
I mean based on qualifications at the time, I'm not talking about hindsight. Sure if we had taken a flyer on Donovan and it worked out that's great, but at the time there would have been a huge outcry.
I’m sure I’m forgetting some people but names I can remember:
Jim Calhoun
Mike Montgomery
Rick Majerus
John Calipari
Gary Williams
Lon Kruger
There could be more and I’m virtually certain there are. At that time, I could have made a case for any of those guys over Tubby Smith based on qualifications. Even in hindsight, I think all but Williams perhaps were better coaches. Any of those guys might have tore it up had they inherited the program Tubby Smith did in 1997.
Hell, would Roy Williams have left Kansas for Kentucky? Maybe not, I don’t know. He sure as hell wasn’t going to if he was never asked though.
But Donovan was a pitino guy with swag by the truck loads. He was no reagular inexperienced coach
I honestly believe CM Newton saw hiring OTS as a way to exorcise a lot of perceived demons from UK's past while setting up his legacy. State and some national media had long painted UK as a racist program for whatever reason. Pitino bolts late in '97 and Newton's options are limited. OTS at that time was considered a good coach. Far from great.
But, offering OTS the UK job would be a headline splash and make CM look like a great progressive AD for hiring the first black head coach in UK men's basketball history. It didn't really matter how OTS would perform, CM would get credit for a monumental advancement in college basketball race relations and his legacy would be sealed.
And for those that still see OTS as "a great guy"...don't forget that while still holding the position of head coach at UK he also had his agent negotiating with USCjr, Virginia and of course Minnesota. When he eventually took the Gopher job he packed up and bolted in the middle of the night without saying goodbye to his team. These are facts that are conveniently overlooked by the OTS banner in the rafters crowd.
But, offering OTS the UK job would be a headline splash and make CM look like a great progressive AD for hiring the first black head coach in UK men's basketball history. It didn't really matter how OTS would perform, CM would get credit for a monumental advancement in college basketball race relations and his legacy would be sealed.
And for those that still see OTS as "a great guy"...don't forget that while still holding the position of head coach at UK he also had his agent negotiating with USCjr, Virginia and of course Minnesota. When he eventually took the Gopher job he packed up and bolted in the middle of the night without saying goodbye to his team. These are facts that are conveniently overlooked by the OTS banner in the rafters crowd.
Wow. I just went back and looked at the statistics for Saul, and he was third in minutes played his last two years.
I complained because it was orchestrated by RP. Those of us that had a few dealings with him; and I also knew two guys in sports information... knew RP was a scum person and should not have been the main influence.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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I read an article years ago regarding an interview with Roy Williams while he was still at Kansas. He said something along the lines that he could never see himself coaching at Kentucky and people from North Carolina would never forgive him if he did.
I can see this and understand it. I don’t understand why people can’t see why UK fans were so upset when Pitino took the UL job. It’s the same thing.
It’s not even close to the same thing. First, Williams was never the head coach at UNC. Second, UK was nowhere close to a top five let alone the top rival of UNC. Third, we are not in the same state as UNC.
Lose/lose situation
He was stealing money by not coaching at a level we deserve those last 2 years. He didn't need to be the coach and was bad for that by some.
Then...after calls by many for him to be fired...he leaves on his own so we don't have to fire him....but he's bad for that too.
So if he stayed coach...he was bad for stealing money as some say. But leaving on his own...bad too.
No, but Williams played and was an assistant coach at UNC, he was a Tarheel at heart. Before UK and UL started playing, UNC and IU were our hated rivals. I am sure UNC fans feel the same towards UK. Us older fans get it. Surely you weren’t questioning why we got upset about Pitino taking the UL job?
This is pure revisionism. At the time, Donovan was coming off a 13-17 losing season and had done nothing of real note in his coaching career, whereas Tubby had done tremendous jobs at both Tulsa and Georgia and was one of the hottest coaching commodities in the country. There was never any question about who was the better candidate between those two in 97, every program would've chosen Tubby over Donovan in a heartbeat at the time.
And to say "anyone" would've been better than Tubby is just plain ole stupid. He won us a national championship. Hate to break it you, pal, but not "anyone" would've done that. Do you think BCG would've?
I rewatched the 98 title game last night. Some of you can like it or not, but that was a well coached basketball team. Granted they were experienced so easier to coach, but it was a well coached basketball team nonetheless. Wouldn’t have won the title if they weren’t.
This was it exactly. Tubby checked all the boxes right off the bat and it was pretty much the accepted choice by all. I dont even remember there being much of a search.
The key was Tubby's previous time with Rick as the thing CM and others wanted more than anything to preserve Pitino's style more than anything as thats what had created so much hype and fun through his year. Dont think most realized Tubby's didn't really run Rick's style as much, although he did more at Tulsa when he started.
Unlike Tubby or Calipari, Pitino thought Kentucky tradition started the day he stepped into Rupp Arena.
I was thrilled with the Tubby hire . I remember telling my co-workers to stop worrying about his style of play because he will have the horses to press and run unlike at Georgia. I was also expecting that the parents of African Americans would love for Tubby to be a father figure for their son while in college and encourage their sons to play for Tubby. I didn't think we needed to interview anyone else . I wouldn't have .
If Tubby would have called it quits two years earlier and gotten over the hump in 2005 then he would be remembered more fondly. He needed that one title of his own guys to satisfy everyone.
Yeah lol. He was god awful. I didn’t mean they had the “talent” to be a top 5 team but they had an adequate amount of solid guys. It’s not like it was a bunch of 2 and 3 stars.
Tubby's primary downfall at UK was his inability...or, should I say, his unwillingness, to work the AAU ranks to cultivate relationships with coaches and camp organizers. He openly despised the AAU system and refused to play their game. As a result his recruiting took a nose dive.
Tubby's staff was also subpar for most of the time he was in Lexington. Which didn't help with recruiting. As much as I hate the guy, look at RP's coaching tree and you can see the difference.
I also think it isn't coincidental that the further away from the team that won the '98 Championship you get, the less competitive in tournament play his teams were. Those guys in '98 had been mentally toughened by Pitino's style of coaching and it paid off with better post season performance. OTS didn't use the same approach.
Tubby's staff was also subpar for most of the time he was in Lexington. Which didn't help with recruiting. As much as I hate the guy, look at RP's coaching tree and you can see the difference.
I also think it isn't coincidental that the further away from the team that won the '98 Championship you get, the less competitive in tournament play his teams were. Those guys in '98 had been mentally toughened by Pitino's style of coaching and it paid off with better post season performance. OTS didn't use the same approach.
yeah for sure just I will always think of that dude not only for sucking but for his horrible decisions in life.
Cal was reputed to be dirty, so President Lee Todd told our AD not to consider him. He was very interested in the UK job and said so in an interview that was well publicized. He kept asking his wife if there were any calls for him, meaning from UK expressing interest in him as a head coach to replace Tubby. That call never came, but Cal said he was expecting UK to contact him and would have taken the job in a heartbeat. So to say that our options were limited to the ones previously mentioned is false.
When Tubby left and BCG took the program into the dump, Cal was flourishing at Memphis and Lee Todd suddenly had a change of heart towards Cal. Then came 'the door' and the rest is history. No credible evidence has ever emerged that Cal was dirty then or at any other time. I know that this thread began by talking about the availability of coaches after Rick left, but I just want to make the point that even in 2007 when Tubby left after the season was complete, Cal was a very successful coach that was keenly interested, yet was never really considered because of spurious rumors. If he badly wanted the UK job in 2007, one might ask why he was not considered in 1997 when Pitino bolted. My guess is that he might well have taken the UK job then too. By then, he had taken Umass to the FF where they lost to UK in a very tough game. Umass was a nothing program before and after Cal's tenure there. IMO, what he achieved there and later at Memphis should have put him front and center on our radar a lot sooner than he was.
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Also, if Cal came here in 2007 I would bet a ton of money he wouldn't be here now. He was younger, would have had the same/similar success and I think probably would have jumped at a NBA opportunity after a few years at UK.
Total nonsense. He wasn’t stealing anything. Since when do UK fans “deserve” anything?!?
The ones who still unnecessarily hate him 13 years later sure think he owed them something
The biggest danger in the Cal to UK in 2007 scenario is he brings Derrick Rose on board. We dodged a bullet, but had to go through hell in the meantime.
Can you read? My point is the time out situation had no bearing in out coaching K. Also was Tubby out coaching K when he was down 18 points. We won the game. UK scored 16 points on five successive possessions during the come back. That was the players doing that incredible feat.
True, but to this day there is no credible evidence that anyone other than Derrick Rose took his college entrance exam. He was playing in the NBA when the allegation was made and he basically told the NCAA that they could go to hell unless it had any credible evidence that he was involved in any wrongdoing. They never proved a thing as far as I know, and irrespective of what may have happened there is nothing to implicate Cal in what a high school student at the time did or didn't do on the entrance exam. Knowing that Cal has run a clean ship at UK, I find it very hard to believe that he had anything to do with either the allegation against Rose or the scandal with Marcus Canby hiring an agent.
