ADVERTISEMENT

Why Will Our O-Line Be Better?

Nov 11, 2014
2,970
2,379
113
I believe our shot at a bowl mainly hinges on our O-Line since we still have not recruited ourselves out of Joker's Defense and that will take a couple more years.

IF the O-Line improves, we could score more points this year, which could mean 1-2 more wins and a bowl.

I'm not convinced the O-Line will be much better. I don't believe Swindle has the ability to play in the SEC and neither do a couple of our other O-Linemen. It is what it is....Our center is legit SEC and we've got a bunch of talented RS Freshmen coming up in the ranks, but it will take them time to acclimate to the SEC.

Specifically, tell me why our O-Line will be better this season? Does experience matter if you simply don't have the athletic ability to pass block in the SEC?
 
Healthy 2 deep at every position another year in the weight room. Experience together. Practicing against better players. Different blocking scheme by Dawson
 
Toth is a stud. I like Meyers too. Asafo-Adjei has already made waves. Overall, I think the group is more talented than last season. More experienced. Definitely more quality depth.

A lot will depend on what this group is asked to do. If the plan is to line them up and ask them to move NFL caliber tackles or block future first round DE's one-on-one, they'll be in trouble. Hopefully, Dawson compensates for some of that with quick passes, rolling pockets, and timely double teams. The threat of Boom Williams should help too.

GBB!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: UKcats60
Toth is a stud. I like Meyers too. Asafo-Adjei has already made waves. Overall, I think the group is more talented than last season. More experienced. Definitely more quality depth.

A lot will depend on what this group is asked to do. If the plan is to line them up and ask them to move NFL caliber tackles or block future first round DE's one-on-one, they'll be in trouble. Hopefully, Dawson compensates for some of that with quick passes, rolling pockets, and timely double teams. The threat of Boom Williams should help too.

GBB!!!

Nice post as usual, UKErik, IIRC you take a sabbatical every year, hope that is done and gone.
 
I don't know...but hearing that a true FR may top out at one of the tackle spots isn't encouraging as those guys tend to struggle playing so early in their career.

To me...if we come back with Swindle, Ramsey Meyers, Toth (who is our best OL to me), Haynes and AA at starters...if can't say that is a group that will be much better than last.

Secondly, I've never been a fan of Schlarman's rotating groups either. Pick starters and play them most snaps. If you want to rotate 1 to 2 kids..fine but not entire OL need to be rotating.
 
Boom will make the OL better. He is wonderful at reading the inside zone play. There will be little need to insert a second back into the backfield.

I trust Dawson has been teaching the QBs to extend the timeline by sliding and stepping away from pressure while keeping eyes up. Coach Brown philosophy was to tuck and run at 1st sense of pressure.

Watch video of Clint Tricket and it illustrates the pace of the play post snap is slower and more controlled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UKcats60
...I trust Dawson has been teaching the QBs to extend the timeline by sliding and stepping away from pressure while keeping eyes up. Coach Brown philosophy was to tuck and run at 1st sense of pressure....
Do you think Brown actually coached that? Without question one of Towles' biggest problems last year was bailing out too early and not working in the pocket but I just cannot imagine a coach from a passing background teaching tuck and run at first sign of trouble.

Peace
 
Do you think Brown actually coached that? Without question one of Towles' biggest problems last year was bailing out too early and not working in the pocket but I just cannot imagine a coach from a passing background teaching tuck and run at first sign of trouble.

Peace

I would not put it out of the realm of possibility. We did NOT want to take Barker off redshirt and had Reese as our only backup if Smith was having an average day trying to piece himself together. Preserving our "star" QB would be priority for me as well. If it helped keep defenses honest at the same time- especially if the QB was as skiddish as ours was, then that'll work. Teams were figuring it out at the end of the season, though. Good thing Towles had a good sense of when to drop and had the good fortune to stay away from the injury bug.
 
UK wasn't playing it safe with Towles or they wouldn't have run him so much. His in pocket troubles were on him. A year of experience and better OL and receivers will make everyone look better. Stoops and Brown took over a huge mess.
 
Pretty sure it was Towles, not Brown.

It's a big adjustment for Towles. You are dealing with a guy that could tuck and run, and have his way in HS. The instinct is deeply rooted, the kid is a very talented and effective runner. Combine that with our inconsistent OL and there you go.

Think we will see a big improvement this year and glad we have Dawson to work with him.

No disrespect to NB, but Dawson is a huge upgrade when it comes to QB development. He's got an impressive track record and a couple of very talented kids to work with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adolph rollingover
I think it will be significantly improved. But whether that translates to a "good" or even average offensive line is yet to be seen. The fact is that we are just so bad in that area that we could improve greatly and still not be even a middle-of-the-pack SEC line. But here are the reasons the line will be better:

A. We return 4 starters --- that means improvement...how much improvement? That's yet to be seen, but improvement nonetheless, even if just a small amount,

B. We'll have a more talented unit overall with the influx of young talent -- again, maybe not significant, but still at the end of the day we'll have more pure talent at the position, and that means improvement in my book,

C. We'll have a stronger, quicker line than last year (unless all of our players took a year off in the weight room, which I doubt),

D. We'll have more quality depth at each position along the line

But at the end of the day, here's the thing. I could have said all of the things above last year, but that doesn't mean that the line was good. All it means is that it's improved.

The line improved a lot last year, but it was still bad. I think we'll make a step up from terrible to mediocre this year. Not good by any means, but improved. The line just takes longer to build than skill positions.

But again -- the line improved dramatically from year one to year two under Stoops (as did most everything). We just forget that we were so terrible our first year that even though we improved so greatly we were still only so-so after all that improvement. You can't go from terrible to good in one year.

It's still going to be a pretty rough offensive line, but I'd be shocked if it's not noticeably improved. This coaching staff has shown that when they have time to work on things (offseasons, bye weeks, etc) they know how to work on areas that need improvement.) To me that's always the sign of a good coaching staff.

But I'm glad that we're finally starting to have this discussion about the line.

It's easy to get caught up in the skill positions, but the problem for Kentucky has rarely been the skill positions. The things that are separating us from the top half of the SEC right now aren't the skill players. Our skill players can compete with just about anyone in the SEC right now. Everyone has a team full of skill players that can run 4.5 forty's, etc. What everyone doesn't have are the handful of 6'5, 300-pound athletic linemen that teams like Georgia, Alabama, LSU, etc have.

Are our skill players on the level of those teams? Not overall, but we have enough to be competitive with them in the skill area -- our QB and WR's can play with their DB's. We had one of the best pass offenses in the SEC last season. Our corners and safeties can work with their WR's. We ended the season ranked in the 40's in pass defense last season. We're decent at the skill positions. Not great, but decent. We can compete (aka we don't need to be worrying about areas where there isn't a huge discrepancy in competitiveness *cough* *cough* skill positions).

But our offensive line can't handle the other team's defensive line. We were horrible at rushing the ball (b/c there weren't holes to run through) and we were HORRIBLE at protecting the QB (we gave up 36 sacks with a strong mobile QB that could scramble). Our defensive line routinely got manhandled. The reason is because it takes longer to build the offensive and defensive line that it does skill positions. With skill positions it's a lot like college bball. You can roll a couple true freshmen out there and they can at least use their pure athleticism to compete. But with the lines it takes time to build those guys' bodies and you usually have to redshirt them. It just takes a little more time (but not a decade like some would suggest).

I'm just glad we're finally starting to realize the problem is the offensive and defensive line. The good thing is that the coaches seem to be placing an emphasis on the position (in recruiting) like no other coaching staff I can remember. Whether that will translate to success is yet to be seen, but at the end of the day as the offensive and defensive line go, so will this coaching staff. It's that important.

Offensive and defensive line are the reason Kentucky football has been Kentucky football over the years. It's the hardest unit to recruit and to build, but it's the most important.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Capt. Gingersnap
I am probably not qualified to answer.. but I feel with coaching, redshirting these guys and talent level overall will be more rounded for SEC ball. I have faith in the coaching of these guys.
 
One, Towels got trained to leave early. Maybe not on purpose in practice, but in game play. Qbs that are told to run, usually lose the patience and discipline to stay in the pocket. He got his number called twenty times a game. Don't be surprised he developed a habit of taking off on the first sign of collapsing pocket. You hope with age and experience he learns to run and stay, but it was typical young qb play.

Two. Offensive lines that stay together get better. That's damn near football fact. If you need more reason than that, I don't know what to tell you. Hell it even happens here. Yes, lots of teams reload. But they don't get better when they lose seniors, at best they just don't drop off as much. We only lost one guy. We have experienced backups fighting to take his place. We started a freshman and a sophomore, they should improve the most. West was playing at all conference level until he got hurt. He's healthy and his backup won't be a walk on freshman this year. There is no doubt this line gets better next year.
 
Good OL's are made up of talented upperclassmen that have been in the program together for some time. It is the one position underclassmen do not normally make a big impact. It does happen from time to time but by a large measure freshman OL are the last to make an impact on a team. If a team has freshmen playing on their OL then that OL is a very rare jewel or that team is in trouble. Maturity and experience are two of the most important factors for an effective OL.
 
Uk lost their unquestioned most talented olinemen in Darien miller. Swindle showed he could be a productive run blocker on the right side, but he was completely manhandled trying to pass block at right tackle once we got into sec play. He simply didn't have the quickness (which is why he often jumped offsides) or the foot speed to block the strong side DEs within the conference.

Now, UK has no choice but to start him at left tackle because they've struggled to recruit that spot. He'll now be asked to block the blindside in a pass happy offense against the most athletic pass rushers (weak side DEs) in all of college football. It's a recipe for disaster.

I think this unit will be able to run block, but their lack of talent at OT will certainly hold them back.
 
Really like what I saw from o. line in Spring game/scrimmage. Entire o. linemen look like SEC players! First SEC game I'll know if they are good as looked in Spring.
Also have reservation with Swindle at left tackle. He's a tough son-of a-buck ,but foot speed? Honestly when it came to SEC play Miller lost as many battles as he won. New tight ends, backs, deep receiver group, backs, and Patrick I think will greatly aide our o. line this fall!
MY UK football glass is always 1/2 full!
 
  • Like
Reactions: C1180
I believe our shot at a bowl mainly hinges on our O-Line since we still have not recruited ourselves out of Joker's Defense and that will take a couple more years.

IF the O-Line improves, we could score more points this year, which could mean 1-2 more wins and a bowl.

I'm not convinced the O-Line will be much better. I don't believe Swindle has the ability to play in the SEC and neither do a couple of our other O-Linemen. It is what it is....Our center is legit SEC and we've got a bunch of talented RS Freshmen coming up in the ranks, but it will take them time to acclimate to the SEC.

Specifically, tell me why our O-Line will be better this season? Does experience matter if you simply don't have the athletic ability to pass block in the SEC?
The interior of our offensive line, guards and center, will be better this year because of more quality depth and maturity. As I have said on other threads, I continue to have concerns about our tackles, especially left tackle. Left tackle is going to be 1 of the key positions to watch on our 2015 team.
 
IMO Krok who the coaching staff was vey high on last year before his injury and George A-A are going to be pleasant surprises at the OT positions. Do not discount Cole Mosier because he is an ex walk on. He was starting over Meadows in the spring camp. Mosier is not your typical walk on. This kid is huge and he can play. He should have gotten a SS coming out of high school.

I think the OL will be much improve this year and it definitely will have more depth. A lot of the depth will be very young but most are talented.

Let me jog your memories. UK won 5 games last year and was within a play or two of winning 3 others. They return 4 of the starting OL off of that team that will be older, stronger and more experienced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BengalWACO
does anyone know what krok's injury is? he was looking at playing some last year and rs'd because of injury and didn't participate in spring??? that's a long time to heal up from 1 injury. is he working out and just held out of contact or is he still injured?
 
Really like what I saw from o. line in Spring game/scrimmage. Entire o. linemen look like SEC players! First SEC game I'll know if they are good as looked in Spring.
Also have reservation with Swindle at left tackle. He's a tough son-of a-buck ,but foot speed? Honestly when it came to SEC play Miller lost as many battles as he won. New tight ends, backs, deep receiver group, backs, and Patrick I think will greatly aide our o. line this fall!
MY UK football glass is always 1/2 full!

This is as on point as a post can be. Well said. +1
 
does anyone know what krok's injury is? he was looking at playing some last year and rs'd because of injury and didn't participate in spring??? that's a long time to heal up from 1 injury. is he working out and just held out of contact or is he still injured?

What led to Krok's RS in '14 was the dreaded high ankle injury. That eventually healed but he had missed so much time it would've been counterproductive to play him.

I think he actually did practice some this spring. Memory's foggy but I thought his missing some spring practice was due to illness.
 
I do think our o-line will be better. The good part is they don't have to be much better to look a lot better. A tad stronger, a tad quicker, and a tad better cohesiveness can easily give our QB that extra 1 to 1.2 seconds. These small #s can bring huge results for the o-line. These tiny #s suddenly transform into Recievers separation, QB allowing separation, and like Magic we're all raving about the most improved line in the SEC!! I know our starters will reach this goal, let's see what happens with the 2 deep.
 
I am also very skeptical about the improvement of the OL. It will clearly be better but a lot of that is because it can't doing thing but get better. Even though we moved the ball against our OOC teams I still thought that our line got pushed around by even the weaker defenses we faced. Toth and Meyers look like keepers. Swindle is a good run blocker but not a pass blocker. Probably should move inside to LG. That is of course if we can find a LT and RT. West is a good run blocker as we but probably not quick enough to be a starter. Too often he got beat across his nose without even getting a hand on the DT. Getting pushed back is one thing but you can't have a DT stunt across your facemask and fail to slow him down enough to even get a hand on him. Meadows and Haynes both had moments and can develop in to good players. And we have good group of true/redshirt freshmen that have potential. There is room for improvement but that is clearly down the road.

As for Towles, I have little doubt that it was a combination of both Towles tendencies and Brown's. Both seemed to want to give up on the passing game way too early. During the first season I thought Whitlow's best games were when he threw the ball the most. He wasn't a good passer but when tried more often it seemed to open the defense more for the running game. Still we failed to commit to throwing the ball most of the time. Then with Towles the same thing. When we committed to throwing the ball and opening the offense up we might have taken some lumps in the game but we did successfully open things up for the run. In the games where we gave up on the pass other teams just tee'd off on us.

Likewise Towles would look at his first option and nothing more. If covered he would either throw the ball anyway or run with it. It got really frustrating seeing teams drop off of Boom and leave him wide open and Towles would never even look at him. There were numerous situations where our RB was 5 yards away coming out of the backfield and no defender within sight of him. Boom or Jo Jo could have walked for 20 yards and yet Towles would pull the ball down and run for a 2 yard gain. A lot of those decisions killed drives.

Our line will be better but it won't be great until Krok, Richardson. George AA and some of our more talented freshmen are starting and have become upper class men. It will take at least another year or two for that to happen. Hopefully it will improve enough to at least be serviceable. The rest we will have to do with play calling. The changes to blocking schemes and play calling that Dawson implemented in the spring will help.

Also I didn't see the spring game this year so I have no idea how they looked aside from what others on here are reporting. I did see the previous spring game and thought our O line looked horrid against our 2nd and 3rd team DL. Our starting OL gave up penetration on almost every play to DL that will never play a down in a real game. That was painful to watch last spring. We won't know for sure how it looks until the first SEC game but if we looked better against our own defense then I would call the improvement legit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlueTick2
O line has to be better.
Read recently where in the last six games last year our QB had 4 TD passes and took 23 sacks... and he was fairly mobile. People say he had happy feet..... well, 23 sacks in 6 games will make your feet happy. Nobody wins with 4 TDs and 23 sacks in six games.
 
IMO Krok who the coaching staff was vey high on last year before his injury and George A-A are going to be pleasant surprises at the OT positions. Do not discount Cole Mosier because he is an ex walk on. He was starting over Meadows in the spring camp. Mosier is not your typical walk on. This kid is huge and he can play. He should have gotten a SS coming out of high school.

I think the OL will be much improve this year and it definitely will have more depth. A lot of the depth will be very young but most are talented.

Let me jog your memories. UK won 5 games last year and was within a play or two of winning 3 others. They return 4 of the starting OL off of that team that will be older, stronger and more experienced.
Krok missed spring practice because he was hurt. Krok will probably become a starter at some point in his career, but we will be lucky if he catches up and factors at all in 2015. Mosier is a former walk-on who played guard last year. He has really good size, but if your premise about him was correct other programs would have offered him a scholarship. College coaches don't miss much these days. Mosier got a look at right tackle in the spring out of necessity, but he is an inside player. GAA may become a great SEC guard, but he is another inside player getting a look at right tackle because of the void there. All the spring experiments with guards getting looks at right tackle say a mouthful. We are pretty stacked right now at guard, but you are kidding yourself if you think the situation at the tackles is anywhere near being settled. Right now, they have Swindle pencilled in as the starting left tackle, but he was barely able to handle right tackle last year. I like our team, and nearly every position is improved, but offensive tackle is still a problem. One obvious answer would be to move Elam over to offensive tackle, but I will probably be french fried here for even suggesting it.
 
Krok has been sidelined with injuries in both the fall and spring. He currently is not a factor in the discussion of the oline rotation.
 
Offensive tackle and cornerback are the two positions which are stunting the growth of the UK football program.
 
IMO Krok will be right in the thick of the competition for the tackle positions this fall. I do not know what the problem was this spring but that high ankle sprain should be well healed by now. Does anyone know what the problem was this spring?
 
IMO Krok will be right in the thick of the competition for the tackle positions this fall. I do not know what the problem was this spring but that high ankle sprain should be well healed by now. Does anyone know what the problem was this spring?

As I said, my memory is foggy but I thought Krok missed SOME spring work because of an illness. Maybe somebody out there knows.
 
I would not put it out of the realm of possibility. We did NOT want to take Barker off redshirt and had Reese as our only backup if Smith was having an average day trying to piece himself together. Preserving our "star" QB would be priority for me as well.

Then why run him 15 times a game?
 
UK wasn't playing it safe with Towles or they wouldn't have run him so much. His in pocket troubles were on him. A year of experience and better OL and receivers will make everyone look better. Stoops and Brown took over a huge mess.

I agree. Towles simply doesn't have very good pocket presence and he doesn't have good vision as a QB. He can't see people wide open at times. I think Barker could be the answer eventually this season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adolph rollingover
Uk lost their unquestioned most talented olinemen in Darien miller. Swindle showed he could be a productive run blocker on the right side, but he was completely manhandled trying to pass block at right tackle once we got into sec play. He simply didn't have the quickness (which is why he often jumped offsides) or the foot speed to block the strong side DEs within the conference.

Now, UK has no choice but to start him at left tackle because they've struggled to recruit that spot. He'll now be asked to block the blindside in a pass happy offense against the most athletic pass rushers (weak side DEs) in all of college football. It's a recipe for disaster.

I think this unit will be able to run block, but their lack of talent at OT will certainly hold them back.

Unfortunately you are probably right, which also means opposing defenses will probably attack the left side with the blitz, making matters even worse.
 
Unfortunately you are probably right, which also means opposing defenses will probably attack the left side with the blitz, making matters even worse.

Like UKErik said, to compensate for this, I'm sure Dawson will have Towles roll out to opposite side on plays and of course quick, short passes.
 
Like UKErik said, to compensate for this, I'm sure Dawson will have Towles roll out to opposite side on plays and of course quick, short passes.

That's part of the game but it's not a cure all, or a substitute from being able to stand in the pocket and throw down the field. If that becomes a problem like it was 2nd half of last season, it will retard the offense again.

BTW QB accuracy, on average is much poorer throwing on the run then stationary, you don't really want to put your QB in that position a whole lot.
 
Toth is very talented and getting better. He has been identified as a nominee for the best center. Miller graded well, but I think Toth, at his position, could be better. Getting the LT will be important, true enough. As we see, it is always the line as a unit and not just having a couple of stars. UL had 2 drafted to the NFL this year and its line was not above average last year.

One thing I like is that Dawson has been unabashed at saying our skill players are very good. This coming from a guy who had some talent at WR last season at WVU. I think he likes how Stoops and Crew have recruited. Those guys coming into their own will make Towles and the OLine look better. Or should.
 
That's what doesn't make sense. I can see where Brown might've been trying to go, but keeping defenses honest with a running QB only goes so far.

I think this was the result of a problem line. Keep the defense from pinning its ears. Also, I think our line rushed blocked better than pass blocked last year. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference now that Dawson wants their hand in the dirt. I love that he admitted he was wrong when Holgerson wanted to do this at WVU. The guy seems thankful and humble, while still confident and aggressive.

He has no experience with the Wildcat, but his staff likes it. It will be interesting to see how much we see next year.
 
That's part of the game but it's not a cure all, or a substitute from being able to stand in the pocket and throw down the field. If that becomes a problem like it was 2nd half of last season, it will retard the offense again.

BTW QB accuracy, on average is much poorer throwing on the run then stationary, you don't really want to put your QB in that position a whole lot.

Agreed, but i don't see any way around it if Towles doesn't have time to stand in the pocket. Then, you also consider that Towles doesn't have good vision and can't see wide open receivers a lot of the time. Dawson will have to be very creative to get us 1-2 more wins this season IMO.
 
Actually our interior OL play was a much bigger problem than that of the OT's. This was stated many times by the coaching staff. Swindle did have a problem jumping off sides but you have to remember he was lining up against guys with NFL talent almost every week and had and inexperienced team surrounding him including young receivers who couldn't get open and a young QB who struggled to read defenses and get rid of the ball. It is easier for the fans to see the tackles get beat than the interior line but our guards and center struggled much more. West played well when he was healthy but everyone else got manhandled a lot or missed assignments.

You just cannot expect an OL to hold 5-6 seconds against quality defenses.Towles needs to learn to step up into the pocket and get the ball out. His completion percentage when rolling out was miserable. He has to set his feet to be accurate. OL play was not good in the passing game but these problems were less important than the fact that our young receivers couldn't get separation and Towles couldn't read the game fast enough. Football is a great game because to be successful you need a complex movement of many parts. The OL will be better because of better depth and experience of the entire team.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT