Interesting: http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/103014/why-kentucky-will-or-wont-make-a-bowl-game
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Why Kentucky Will Or Won't Make a Bowl Game (ESPN)
- Thread starter footballfanatic77
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Cats will go to a bowl because...
1. There are something like 40 bowl games this year and a 6 win SEC is going to a bowl
2. Four wins (ULL, EKU, Vandy and Charlotte) will be expected so 2 more wins are needed, most likely from the pre-season not-too-intimidating foursome of SC, FL, MO and UofL with only SC on the road.
Cats will not go to a bowl because...
1. Massive wave of injuries
2. Either "talent or coaching" just not as good as expected.
JMO
Peace
1. There are something like 40 bowl games this year and a 6 win SEC is going to a bowl
2. Four wins (ULL, EKU, Vandy and Charlotte) will be expected so 2 more wins are needed, most likely from the pre-season not-too-intimidating foursome of SC, FL, MO and UofL with only SC on the road.
Cats will not go to a bowl because...
1. Massive wave of injuries
2. Either "talent or coaching" just not as good as expected.
JMO
Peace
The "losing culture" is the most difficult element to overcome on the road to building a competitive program. Both the team and the fans have to believe the program can win. That is why winning is a product of a talented team, fan support and university investment.
The current players and coaches don't care about history. If we stay healthy and the rs's can give us some quality depth so we don't wear out down the stretch. ...we are going bowling!
I definitely don't think there is much insight. I do think it all comes down to Louisville. Frankly, UK should start beating a middle-tier ACC team before it starts beating even lower tier SEC teams.
Again, adding bowl games doesn't help Kentucky at all.... They're still in the toughest conference and they have to still win 6 games..... Those teams in easier conferences are the ones that prospers with the extra bowl games..... Having easier games, means they have more shots to get to 6 wins... UK doesn't have that luxury....
Actually some in the National Media Consider Louisville a Top Tier ACC Football Program:
Tier 1
1. Florida State
2. Georgia Tech
3. Louisville
4. Clemson
You could talk me into putting these four in any order.
Georgia Tech was legitimately awesome last year but must replace virtually every skill position player. Louisville is going to have a spectacular front seven but is retooling on the offensive line and in the secondary. Clemson has the most tantalizing player in the conference when he's healthy (quarterback Deshaun Watson) but is starting from scratch on both lines.
And then there's the defending champ. FSU has a new quarterback, one of the least experienced lines in the country, and questions to answer in the front seven. The Noles also have an absurd amount of raw talent, especially at the skill positions and in the secondary. They are ripe for defeat, but the other Tier 1 teams might be too flawed to take advantage.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...acc-power-rankings-2015-florida-state-clemson
FSU is almost certainly going to take a significant step back. They lost a lot of personnel. For what little it's worth, I predict Clemson is the best team in the ACC in 2015. I think Duke is better than Louisville too. Some people think Miami will be good this year too, but I'll believe that when I see it. I would assume Virginia Tech improves, but I'm not sure how much. And, to hear the national media, UNC is going to be strong...we'll see. If I hard to order the ACC in 2015 I would predict:
1) Clemson
2) Virginia Tech
3) Florida State
4) Duke
Either way, when I look at that conference I think UK would have gone bowling last season.
Agree 100% with htm, the depth down the stretch provided by quality red shirts will put Cats in a bowl game.![[cheers]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/5628.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
GT will be good offensively as long as that qb is healthy. I don't know who they have behind him, but the kid has sprinter speed and can make the quick read with their fb and that is tough to defend. Skill players in their offense doesn't mean as much as it does to other offenses, its all about making the correct read, with hardly anyone running that offense anymore defenses have a tough time adjusting in a week. It takes tremendous discipline to stay in position and play your assignment when all season its been about running to the ball.
My own personal take on the Top Tier of the ACC
1. Florida State
2. Georgia Tech
3a. Clemson
3b. Louisville
3c. Duke
Regardless of Winston now being gone they have the most pure talent in the League....Georgia Tech Offense is a Nightmare to defend against....as for Louisville/Clemson both have to replace a lot that is now in the NFL...David Cutcliffe is one of the most underrated coaches in the Nation and he is following the Stanford Model...
You mentioned Miami....true they are talented but as long as Al Golden is their Coach they will be irrelevant...on Virginia Tech...they are still way too offensively challenged to win consistently.
Congratulations to jurich and all his shady dealings, looks to me like he has maneuvered UL into their level of incompetence------they will be behind FSU for sure and Clemson and Miami probably from now on. All of these programs are MUCH better off than UL in overall advantages, access to talent, fan base, stadiums, facilities, tradition, etc etc. Even VT and GT probably are.
I don't see UL winning the ACC, probably ever, just because of FSU alone. Sure, they lost a lot of talent, but aren't all the UL fans bragging about having the most NFL draft picks in the country, more than any of these ACC teams? Nice bragging rights, that bring a lot of disadvantages with it.
UK fans are still ga ga over UK's 14 class, TEN four stars (three times what UL has had in a year since hurtt the cheater in 11, and twice that class) and deservedly so, considering our past recruiting, UL's 11 class has made their impact, now they are gone, UK's best class is just starting to make their impact. Look at what FSU has done the past four years, averaging OVER ten four stars per year,and that isn't the impressive part, they are AVERAGING over three FIVE stars over that time. So, Transfer U can pull in some highly rated transfers for one year, FSU can count on FOUR top ten (three top five) classes for their talent. And ranked #2 in the nation so far this year, behind only LSU.
For instance that RB that UK fans were so hopeful of getting away from the best recruiters in the nation, did anyone notice that he was Bama's second choice in that class------behind the five star that committed to FSU?
Right now FSU is recruiting on a level with Bama, and it looks like they will for a while, both UL and FSU lost a lot of talent, but when you look at the new talent available to both teams it is foolish to say UL's talent should be close to FSU's level.
You could talk me into putting those four in no particular order------if I were really dumb.
1. Miami facilities are awful and Miami really isn't a "Sports Town"....just look at the Dolphins, Heat and Marlins
2. Those "Classes" that Produced those NFL Draft Picks were ranked Nationally Between 29th and 52nd Nationally...get off Recruiting Rankings...Missouri, Wisconsin, Baylor, TCU make that point you try to make look silly...Texas usually is in the Top 5 to 10 Nationally yet TCU and Baylor in recent years Boatraced them and TCU is one of the lead Favorites to win the CFP this year.
3. Didn't say UofL would win the ACC but the article along with people like Phil Steele feel they will be in the upper tier of the ACC...also, your beef is with Bill Connerly and SB Nation...click on the link.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...acc-power-rankings-2015-florida-state-clemson
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The last three Meeting between Louisville and Miami....newflash the Cardinals Destroyed the Hurricanes. Louisville 31 Miami 7...Louisville 36 Miami 9 and last year Louisville 31 Miami 13.
As for Recruiting...Louisville did just fine in 2015...Top 35 Nationally which is Good Enough in the ACC...And really in line with TCU....From 2012 to 2015 the Horned Frogs National Recruiting Range varied from 26th Nationally to 50th...much more involved then "Star" Rankings...Not about "Stars" but your game.
As for Recruiting...Louisville did just fine in 2015...Top 35 Nationally which is Good Enough in the ACC...And really in line with TCU....From 2012 to 2015 the Horned Frogs National Recruiting Range varied from 26th Nationally to 50th...much more involved then "Star" Rankings...Not about "Stars" but your game.
The fsu rb that ran all over ul in the 2nd half last, darvin?, until he leaves campus ul will not beat fsu. That dude was so much faster then anyone on the field... gonna be hard to keep him from going over 100/game this year if he improves any.
Clemson might be the only team fast enough to shut him down without scheming specifically for him... then it comes down to qb not being driskell bad.
Clemson might be the only team fast enough to shut him down without scheming specifically for him... then it comes down to qb not being driskell bad.
My examples are simply Wisconsin-(Zero Top 25 Classes in the last 15 Years)...During that time period 9 plus winning seasons 10 Times and no losing Record...Missouri 2 Top 25 Classes the Last 15 years and Zero the last 5 years yet Back to Back SEC East Titles...TCU Zero Top 25 Classes yet a Current Preseason Top 5 Team.
Hang on to your Stars...as with Louisville Zero Top 25 Classes yet 14 NFL Draft Picks and 4 1st Rounders the last two years and a 3 year record of 32-7 with a Sugar Bowl win the last 3 years.
Uh...Nobody is going to beat FSU...Not even Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech etc...etc.
But as long as Petrino is at Louisville they will be very competitive in the ACC
The ACC isn't a good football league (which is one reason many UK backers have always wanted UK to join that league). To that end, I don't think UL will crash and burn in football. I do think they have a ceiling, but it's much easier to crack FSU and Clemson than to have to crack through an endless array of powers that includes Bama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Florida, and so on. Hell, Clemson's all time record against the SEC is absolutely pathetic (they have a losing record against every single SEC team not named Carolina), and they are this all-world power in the eyes of UL people.
Also, where UK is concerned, there's little doubt that our talent will be better than, or equal to, UL in the next two years (though it's hard to gauge for sure because UL takes every wayward cast-off juvenile delinquent that it can get it hands on as a way to make up for lackluster recruiting on the front end). The big question is, Can Mark Stoops outcoach Petrino or at least hold serve? Petrino is an excellent X & O coach. He had good talent at Arkansas, but still had less than most of his SECW peers, so it's not a given that he won't be able to beat competition with better talent.
Any way you cut it, some trends will come to an end. Petrino usually has a great year in year 2 (I don't see it this year). Grantham defenses usually get worse as his tenure lengthens (seems that it will be worse this year based on what they lost). Stoops defenses usually make huge strides in year 3 (hard for me to see that with our losing our two best defenders, but hoping better overall defensive talent offsets that). Better talent usually wins football games (will this be the case with UK over UL in the coming years?).
Also, where UK is concerned, there's little doubt that our talent will be better than, or equal to, UL in the next two years (though it's hard to gauge for sure because UL takes every wayward cast-off juvenile delinquent that it can get it hands on as a way to make up for lackluster recruiting on the front end). The big question is, Can Mark Stoops outcoach Petrino or at least hold serve? Petrino is an excellent X & O coach. He had good talent at Arkansas, but still had less than most of his SECW peers, so it's not a given that he won't be able to beat competition with better talent.
Any way you cut it, some trends will come to an end. Petrino usually has a great year in year 2 (I don't see it this year). Grantham defenses usually get worse as his tenure lengthens (seems that it will be worse this year based on what they lost). Stoops defenses usually make huge strides in year 3 (hard for me to see that with our losing our two best defenders, but hoping better overall defensive talent offsets that). Better talent usually wins football games (will this be the case with UK over UL in the coming years?).
Pretty much agree with your assessment...Louisville has a much larger room for error in the ACC then Kentucky has in the SEC
The HUGE difference is that those schools in general have done it with class, no one is calling them Transfer U, doubt if any of them have one acknowledged adulterer on any of their staffs, let alone two heading up the two most important programs. Missouri kicked out their five star, TCU kicked out maybe their biggest star, and where did he get accepted with open arms, not counting your five star RB From multiple schools including one of the biggest cheaters, the five star from Georgia, and several other four stars. You have also established quite a reputation as a haven for mj users, doubt if any of them have to worry about a thing at your city school.
But, as you have said numerous times, you don't care, just win baby.
Thought it was really telling that the guy from ESPN even had a knock on Kentucky's losing culture. I've been saying this same thing to anyone that will listen for as long as I can remember. Of course recruits and stars and all of that matter, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think expectations are just as important, and sadly we have just about the lowest expectations in all of college sports.
I mean I think if you took a poll around our fanbase, most of our fans wouldn't even be mad if we fail to make a bowl game with a significantly more talented team. That kind of attitude HAS to change. Mark Stoops said last year he was expecting fans to be kind of disappointed in how the season turned out, but said he was shocked that so many fans were congratulating him and patting him on the back like he did something good.
That tells you about our football fans in a nutshell. The expectations have been WAY too low for WAY too long. Even if you set your sights higher than you should, more than likely, even if you fall somewhat short you're going to end up significantly higher than someone with mediocre expectations.
When football season rolls around, the fans on this board who have any sort of expectations at all usually get banned, because they're the only ones who seem to get frustrated when we play poorly. We've been lulled into mediocrity by years and years of bad football, and we have to change that mindset. That doesn't mean you don't give a coach his due time, but that also doesn't mean you give a coach 10 years when he only needs three, and you don't pat a coach on the back and say "good job" when he has a 5-win season. Do you think patting a coach on the back for winning 5-games and losing the last 6 in a row, is going to make him better or worse? I don't know about you, but when there's pressure on me it makes me work harder. When someone tells me that mediocre is good enough, then mediocre is probably all I'm going to shoot for. These coaches are human just like anyone else.
There's a reason this ESPN writer says "If this year’s team can’t break that streak, it won’t be due to a lack of talent. It will be a result of the culture."
Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. I said the exact same thing time and time and time again last year. Were we the most talented team? Absolutely not. But should we have played a heck of a lot better than we did in those final 6 games and maybe pulled off one or two with the level of talent we had? Absolutely. That's where a winning and losing culture steps in. With a winning culture maybe we pull off that Mississippi State game. With a winning culture maybe we win that Mizzou game (who has a roster not that much different looking than ours). With a winning culture we beat a Louisville team playing a second-string QB with a less-talented roster top to bottom. With a winning culture we don't get absolutely demolished at home to Georgia, and get blasted on the road at LSU and Tennessee.
Talent is part of the equation, but some of us need to get it through our mind that coaching and the culture around a program are just as important (if not more important). We had maybe the best pair of DE's in the nation last year yet we were one of the worst defenses in the nation. And depth had little to do with it, because our defense looked worse in the first quarter than it did in the fourth quarter in many of those games. That comes down to coaching and a culture of mediocrity. Our program is happy with competing, and their program feels like they HAVE to win. When is the last time we felt like we HAD to win an SEC game? Vanderbilt? Look what happened there. When we start feeling like we HAVE to win, then we'll start being a winning program. But as long as we're happy with 6 wins and the Liberty Bowl, then that's exactly what we'll get.
I mean I think if you took a poll around our fanbase, most of our fans wouldn't even be mad if we fail to make a bowl game with a significantly more talented team. That kind of attitude HAS to change. Mark Stoops said last year he was expecting fans to be kind of disappointed in how the season turned out, but said he was shocked that so many fans were congratulating him and patting him on the back like he did something good.
That tells you about our football fans in a nutshell. The expectations have been WAY too low for WAY too long. Even if you set your sights higher than you should, more than likely, even if you fall somewhat short you're going to end up significantly higher than someone with mediocre expectations.
When football season rolls around, the fans on this board who have any sort of expectations at all usually get banned, because they're the only ones who seem to get frustrated when we play poorly. We've been lulled into mediocrity by years and years of bad football, and we have to change that mindset. That doesn't mean you don't give a coach his due time, but that also doesn't mean you give a coach 10 years when he only needs three, and you don't pat a coach on the back and say "good job" when he has a 5-win season. Do you think patting a coach on the back for winning 5-games and losing the last 6 in a row, is going to make him better or worse? I don't know about you, but when there's pressure on me it makes me work harder. When someone tells me that mediocre is good enough, then mediocre is probably all I'm going to shoot for. These coaches are human just like anyone else.
There's a reason this ESPN writer says "If this year’s team can’t break that streak, it won’t be due to a lack of talent. It will be a result of the culture."
Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. I said the exact same thing time and time and time again last year. Were we the most talented team? Absolutely not. But should we have played a heck of a lot better than we did in those final 6 games and maybe pulled off one or two with the level of talent we had? Absolutely. That's where a winning and losing culture steps in. With a winning culture maybe we pull off that Mississippi State game. With a winning culture maybe we win that Mizzou game (who has a roster not that much different looking than ours). With a winning culture we beat a Louisville team playing a second-string QB with a less-talented roster top to bottom. With a winning culture we don't get absolutely demolished at home to Georgia, and get blasted on the road at LSU and Tennessee.
Talent is part of the equation, but some of us need to get it through our mind that coaching and the culture around a program are just as important (if not more important). We had maybe the best pair of DE's in the nation last year yet we were one of the worst defenses in the nation. And depth had little to do with it, because our defense looked worse in the first quarter than it did in the fourth quarter in many of those games. That comes down to coaching and a culture of mediocrity. Our program is happy with competing, and their program feels like they HAVE to win. When is the last time we felt like we HAD to win an SEC game? Vanderbilt? Look what happened there. When we start feeling like we HAVE to win, then we'll start being a winning program. But as long as we're happy with 6 wins and the Liberty Bowl, then that's exactly what we'll get.
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