Why are people hell bent on making it Reed vs Wagner?

[HagginHall1999]

But the numbers (and eye test) suggest that is not reality.

- Wagner plays the same minutes and is shooting a horrendous FG and 3pt percentage. Luckily there are enough minutes and I'd prefer to keep all players minutes below 32 minutes a game to stay fresher and play harder during time on court. The only case you can make is DJ is the better backcourt defender (which is hard to make the case so far)

And not to get into a Cal bashing thread but some fans have seen over all the year, both good and bad, the higher rated kids get the nod over lesser rated kids....at least to start the season. Quickley/Whitney, Wenyen/Derek Willis, Vargas/Jorts, Livingston/Reeves, BJ Boston/Mintz, Skal his year, etc... And this year is the same old song playing out to a degree.

NAME		GP	MIN	PTS	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	FG%	FT%	3P%
Antonio Reeves G		11	30.3	18.3	4.2	1.5	0.6	0.2	1.1	50.7	82.9	45.5
Rob Dillingham G		11	23	14.2	3.9	4.3	1.5	0.1	1.6	46.8	71.4	44.4
Tre Mitchell F		11	34.1	13.2	6.7	3.5	1.2	1.4	1.4	54	66.7	38.5
Reed Sheppard G		11	26.5	12.6	4.6	4.3	2.8	0.8	1.5	58.5	89.5	57.8
D.J. Wagner G		10	26.5	11.7	2.1	3.6	1.2	0.5	1.4	40	73.1	27.8
Justin Edwards G		11	24.9	9.9	4.6	0.9	0.9	0.5	1.1	46.7	71.4	25.8
Aaron Bradshaw F		4	21	8.5	5	0	0.8	1.3	0.8	61.9	54.5	66.7
Adou Thiero G		10	22.9	7.6	5.6	0.8	0.7	1.1	0.9	52.9	76	30

IQ and The Dragon didn't play same position and Whitney started less than half of the games he played at UK. Cal switched to a three guard lineup pretty quickly once he saw stuff wasn't working for Whitney.

Gabriel played 4 minutes less per game. Willis played a lot all year.

Vargas never played more than Jorts IIRC.

Will conceed Livington/Reeves.

Boston was the only person who could get a shot on that team...not many went in. I'd actually argue Mintz/Askew more than BJ/Mintz. Mintz should have just played PG and that season wouldn't have been so bad. It wouldn't have been good, but not what it was.

Skal was played out of position for sure.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Raw minutes played don't provide much to this debate. How about earned minutes based on value to the team when on the court?

I don't know what you want man. He is 3rd on the team in mpg...just like DJ. You are splitting hairs over 4 minutes, maybe?

Reed shouldn't be playing 34mpg. We have the luxury of depth at guard position and despite your irrational take on Wagner, he has a good skill set. He can get to the rim better than anyone on the team, even when he misses, they generally turn into makes off rbs or fouls. He is also a vocal leader and fierce competitor...that stuff rubs off on teammates. It isn't taught, it is inherent.

I love Reed, so I'm not going to dog him- there's nothing to dog. That said, I want him fresh and un-injured for the tourney. If this was a matter of us having a short bench or Reed was playing equal minutes to Devin Askew (if he was on team), I'd agree. But Wagner is good and this isn't a situation where Reed is getting 15mpg. He is playing a lot and well.

 

[LmdCat]

I don't know what you want man. He is 3rd on the team in mpg...just like DJ. You are splitting hairs over 4 minutes, maybe?

Reed shouldn't be playing 34mpg. We have the luxury of depth at guard position and despite your irrational take on Wagner, he has a good skill set. He can get to the rim better than anyone on the team, even when he misses, they generally turn into makes off rbs or fouls. He is also a vocal leader and fierce competitor...that stuff rubs off on teammates. It isn't taught, it is inherent.

I love Reed, so I'm not going to dog him- there's nothing to dog. That said, I want him fresh and un-injured for the tourney. If this was a matter of us having a short bench or Reed was playing equal minutes to Devin Askew (if he was on team), I'd agree. But Wagner is good and this isn't a situation where Reed is getting 15mpg. He is playing a lot and well.

Again, I am not splitting hairs over minutes played. I am focusing on value to the team while on the floor. If DJ didn't have 5 stars attached to his recruitment, his performance wouldn't earn him the minutes that he is currently logging. Yes, DJ gets to the rim and then misses the shot.

As for keeping Reed fresh, that makes sense as it does for any other player. However, the issue with minute for this situation isn't as much about minutes played as when the minutes are played. I don't think anyone other than the most extreme Cal worshiper is willing to make the argument that it doesn't make sense to start games with your best 5 players. Bringing Reed off the bench to jumpstart a struggling offense doesn't make sense. How about starting him to help set the tone and to allow DJ to come off the bench when he is playing the opponents' second level players which would probably allow him to beat those players off the dribble for easier shots. DJ is never going to scare an opponent with his outside shooting.

 

[TankedCat]

if there is any issue with the fans between Sheppard and Wagner its because they know what to expect from the coach.

 

[crestcat]

I love this lineup! Only problem is, you basically have to take Reeves off the floor to do this, and he’s a good FT shooter. Not to mention, he’s one of our best shooters. Reckon you could play a 4 guard lineup, depending on matchups.

I’m too lazy to look this up but the old eye test tells me Reeves is not a particularly good EOG free throw shooter.

 

[SaltyCat25]

Maybe because it's obvious DJ is getting preferential treatment over Sheppard. There's not another coach in the nation who would have Shep coming off the bench at this point in the season.

AKA the team is playing well, they’re winning, and they’re fun to watch. We desperately need something to use to take shots at CCC/Cow and be negative.

 

[ck-2]

But the numbers (and eye test) suggest that is not reality.

- Wagner plays the same minutes and is shooting a horrendous FG and 3pt percentage. Luckily there are enough minutes and I'd prefer to keep all players minutes below 32 minutes a game to stay fresher and play harder during time on court. The only case you can make is DJ is the better backcourt defender (which is hard to make the case so far)

And not to get into a Cal bashing thread but some fans have seen over all the year, both good and bad, the higher rated kids get the nod over lesser rated kids....at least to start the season. Quickley/Whitney, Wenyen/Derek Willis, Vargas/Jorts, Livingston/Reeves, BJ Boston/Mintz, Skal his year, etc... And this year is the same old song playing out to a degree.

NAME		GP	MIN	PTS	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	FG%	FT%	3P%
Antonio Reeves G		11	30.3	18.3	4.2	1.5	0.6	0.2	1.1	50.7	82.9	45.5
Rob Dillingham G		11	23	14.2	3.9	4.3	1.5	0.1	1.6	46.8	71.4	44.4
Tre Mitchell F		11	34.1	13.2	6.7	3.5	1.2	1.4	1.4	54	66.7	38.5
Reed Sheppard G		11	26.5	12.6	4.6	4.3	2.8	0.8	1.5	58.5	89.5	57.8
D.J. Wagner G		10	26.5	11.7	2.1	3.6	1.2	0.5	1.4	40	73.1	27.8
Justin Edwards G		11	24.9	9.9	4.6	0.9	0.9	0.5	1.1	46.7	71.4	25.8
Aaron Bradshaw F		4	21	8.5	5	0	0.8	1.3	0.8	61.9	54.5	66.7
Adou Thiero G		10	22.9	7.6	5.6	0.8	0.7	1.1	0.9	52.9	76	30

Hard to dispute that!! Some people just want to defend anything and everything Cal does. But it’s easier to make this out to be a “play Richie” scenario, which it’s not even close.

 

[barbourfor3]

Hey - cal is gonna start dj no matter what, it is what it is. We can argue others deserve it, maybe they do maybe they don’t. My hope is Wagner starts figuring out how to finish at the rim which would make him pretty dangerous and make us a much better team. We’re gonna need to be able to score in a half court grinder and I think Wagner’s a big piece to that, probably the most important piece

 

[HoneyMoon155]

if there is any issue with the fans between Sheppard and Wagner its because they know what to expect from the coach.

But they play equal minutes so this really doesn’t make sense

 

[HoneyMoon155]

I don't know what you want man. He is 3rd on the team in mpg...just like DJ. You are splitting hairs over 4 minutes, maybe?

Reed shouldn't be playing 34mpg. We have the luxury of depth at guard position and despite your irrational take on Wagner, he has a good skill set. He can get to the rim better than anyone on the team, even when he misses, they generally turn into makes off rbs or fouls. He is also a vocal leader and fierce competitor...that stuff rubs off on teammates. It isn't taught, it is inherent.

I love Reed, so I'm not going to dog him- there's nothing to dog. That said, I want him fresh and un-injured for the tourney. If this was a matter of us having a short bench or Reed was playing equal minutes to Devin Askew (if he was on team), I'd agree. But Wagner is good and this isn't a situation where Reed is getting 15mpg. He is playing a lot and well.

Very good post, I really don’t understand why this is even an issue, the team is playing good and they get equal minutes so there’s no favoritism. Not sure what people want

 

[HoneyMoon155]

Hard to dispute that!! Some people just want to defend anything and everything Cal does. But it’s easier to make this out to be a “play Richie” scenario, which it’s not even close.

They play equal minutes so there’s really no favoritism. Some people just want to argue anything and everything Cal does.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Some of our arm chair coaches who played JV in the 60s and coached youth ball in the 80s like to piss and moan constantly.

The on court results so far this season have been better than in recent years, so now we gotta bitch about who starts.

I’m an “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” type and I like the instant offense Shep and Dilly bring off the bench. Maybe that’s just me since who starts is obviously the most important aspect of the game.

 

[UK96GOAT]

Everyone, get their pitch forks! Reed and DJ are both playing 26.5 minutes per game, preferential treatment, I tell ya, muah see, preferential treatment!! George is getting upset!!

@HoneyMoon155 said:
They play equal minutes so there’s really no favoritism. Some people just want to argue anything and everything Cal does.


To me, it’s not so much about the mpg, it’s about who’s taking more bad shots and who’s dishing out more assist. Wagner has taken 28 more shots than Sheppard and played one game less. With 28 more attempts, surely Wagner must be the better shooter? No. Well, surely with 28 more attempts, Wagner must have more made FGs? No, Sheppard has 4 more made FGs on 28 fewer shots.

Also, why is Wagner attempting 3.6 3-pointers per game while shooting 27.8% while Sheppard is only attempting slightly more at 4 3-pointers per game while shooting 57.8%. That’s well over twice the percentage that Wagner shoots but Wagner is trying to shoot as many.

Well since Wagner is the starting PG, surely he should lead the team in total assists for the season. Nope, that’s a tie between the 2 guards that come off the bench. Now surely Wagner would be third on the team in total assists after Sheppard and Dillingham. No again. Tre Mitchell has more assists on the season than Wagner too.

So it’s not so much about who gets what amount of minutes. It’s about who is forcing bad shots and taking too many. Sheppard is the best shooter in the team and is only 6th in shots taken. In the last 7 games, Wagner, Reeves, and Edwards have combined to only assist Sheppard on one FG. Jordan Burks has assisted him more over that time span. Edwards and Reeves don’t know what an assist is. Wagner does get assists some but still shoots too much and needs to pass a little more and he never assists Sheppard since the 4th game of the season when Sheppard went 9-10 and players were actually looking for him instead of him having to create on his own. That game, Sheppard was assisted on 7 of his 9 FGs.

 

[HoneyMoon155]

@HoneyMoon155 said:
They play equal minutes so there’s really no favoritism. Some people just want to argue anything and everything Cal does.


To me, it’s not so much about the mpg, it’s about who’s taking more bad shots and who’s dishing out more assist. Wagner has taken 28 more shots than Sheppard and played one game less. With 28 more attempts, surely Wagner must be the better shooter? No. Well, surely with 28 more attempts, Wagner must have more made FGs? No, Sheppard has 4 more made FGs on 28 fewer shots.

Also, why is Wagner attempting 3.6 3-pointers per game while shooting 27.8% while Sheppard is only attempting slightly more at 4 3-pointers per game while shooting 57.8%. That’s well over twice the percentage that Wagner shoots but Wagner is trying to shoot as many.

Well since Wagner is the starting PG, surely he should lead the team in total assists for the season. Nope, that’s a tie between the 2 guards that come off the bench. Now surely Wagner would be third on the team in total assists after Sheppard and Dillingham. No again. Tre Mitchell has more assists on the season than Wagner too.

So it’s not so much about who gets what amount of minutes. It’s about who is forcing bad shots and taking too many. Sheppard is the best shooter in the team and is only 6th in shots taken. In the last 7 games, Wagner, Reeves, and Edwards have combined to only assist Sheppard on one FG. Jordan Burks has assisted him more over that time span. Edwards and Reeves don’t know what an assist is. Wagner does get assists some but still shoots too much and needs to pass a little more and he never assists Sheppard since the 4th game of the season when Sheppard went 9-10 and players were actually looking for him instead of him having to create on his own. That game, Sheppard was assisted on 7 of his 9 FGs.

I’m not arguing that Shepard hasn’t played better, I don’t think anyone is. But you’re acting like Wagner is just a complete cancer to the team when he’s not, 1 of our 2 losses came on a night he was out against a bad team so clearly he is important.

And the shot attempts are simply because he does get trigger happy sometimes whereas reed takes better shots, plus Shepard can’t be the only one who shoots so someone has to. The assists he’s averaging not even 1 less than the other two, and he has less than Tre because he missed a game. Also when reed is in the game at the same time he tends to be the one with the pg duties, not DJ. So that’s probably why you see Sheppard being assisted less to. I don’t really think there’s any chemistry issues or they’re freezing out reed on purpose, everyone just plays their role. And while yes his shooting numbers are bad DJ has improved the last few games and will only get better

 

[HagginHall1999]

@HoneyMoon155 said:
They play equal minutes so there’s really no favoritism. Some people just want to argue anything and everything Cal does.


To me, it’s not so much about the mpg, it’s about who’s taking more bad shots and who’s dishing out more assist. Wagner has taken 28 more shots than Sheppard and played one game less. With 28 more attempts, surely Wagner must be the better shooter? No. Well, surely with 28 more attempts, Wagner must have more made FGs? No, Sheppard has 4 more made FGs on 28 fewer shots.

Also, why is Wagner attempting 3.6 3-pointers per game while shooting 27.8% while Sheppard is only attempting slightly more at 4 3-pointers per game while shooting 57.8%. That’s well over twice the percentage that Wagner shoots but Wagner is trying to shoot as many.

Well since Wagner is the starting PG, surely he should lead the team in total assists for the season. Nope, that’s a tie between the 2 guards that come off the bench. Now surely Wagner would be third on the team in total assists after Sheppard and Dillingham. No again. Tre Mitchell has more assists on the season than Wagner too.

So it’s not so much about who gets what amount of minutes. It’s about who is forcing bad shots and taking too many. Sheppard is the best shooter in the team and is only 6th in shots taken. In the last 7 games, Wagner, Reeves, and Edwards have combined to only assist Sheppard on one FG. Jordan Burks has assisted him more over that time span. Edwards and Reeves don’t know what an assist is. Wagner does get assists some but still shoots too much and needs to pass a little more and he never assists Sheppard since the 4th game of the season when Sheppard went 9-10 and players were actually looking for him instead of him having to create on his own. That game, Sheppard was assisted on 7 of his 9 FGs.

What is the argument though?

Is it that Shep should start?

Is it that Shep should play 35 mpg?

Again, the whole premise of this thread is why is it Wagner vs. Shep?

I don't care if Shep starts...would love it. But if it isn't broke, no need to fix it.

I don't know what the issue is that people have here. No one is saying Shep is a bad player or that he isn't as good as DJ?

 

[crestcat]

I’m not arguing that Shepard hasn’t played better, I don’t think anyone is. But you’re acting like Wagner is just a complete cancer to the team when he’s not, 1 of our 2 losses came on a night he was out against a bad team so clearly he is important.

And the shot attempts are simply because he does get trigger happy sometimes whereas reed takes better shots, plus Shepard can’t be the only one who shoots so someone has to. The assists he’s averaging not even 1 less than the other two, and he has less than Tre because he missed a game. Also when reed is in the game at the same time he tends to be the one with the pg duties, not DJ. So that’s probably why you see Sheppard being assisted less to. I don’t really think there’s any chemistry issues or they’re freezing out reed on purpose, everyone just plays their role. And while yes his shooting numbers are bad DJ has improved the last few games and will only get better

I think too many people are trying to downplay the loss to uncw because DJ was unavailable, I don’t think so. A couple of games earlier we had to go to overtime to beat a similar team. Only beat St Joe because we shot 51, 48, 66, we lost because Shep was the only one who showed up, a couple of guys were 4for21 combined.

 

[Whoppercat]

Make stuff up much?

 

[LmdCat]

Hey - cal is gonna start dj no matter what, it is what it is. We can argue others deserve it, maybe they do maybe they don’t. My hope is Wagner starts figuring out how to finish at the rim which would make him pretty dangerous and make us a much better team. We’re gonna need to be able to score in a half court grinder and I think Wagner’s a big piece to that, probably the most important piece

If we are playing half court grinders, that means the opposing team is sagging their defense into the lane which will close all driving lanes to the basket, so I am not sure why you think DJ will be helpful in this sort of game. He darn sure isn't capable of shooting an opponent out of that type of defense.

 

[EliteBlue]

Dillingham is projected lottery and Sheppard is projected first.

Yet the not gonna do that coach plays a transfer in front of both.

Must be promises made to Reeves?

Dillingham and Reed both worked their way into lottery from being projected 2nd round or multi year guys. Thats different than someone projected lotto or first round out of highschool and sliding/getting benched.

Its all about being able to recruit the next top 10 guy and if they see a top 10 guy come in and get benched then it can be used as negative recruiting.

It’s a double edged sword bc if you want the top recruits…you can easily see the justification. Not saying it’s right or wrong…just is what it is.

 

[HoneyMoon155]

I think too many people are trying to downplay the loss to uncw because DJ was unavailable, I don’t think so. A couple of games earlier we had to go to overtime to beat a similar team. Only beat St Joe because we shot 51, 48, 66, we lost because Shep was the only one who showed up, a couple of guys were 4for21 combined.

I don’t think it’s the only reason should have won either way, but you can’t honestly say he wouldn’t have helped

 

[crestcat]

I don’t think it’s the only reason should have won either way, but you can’t honestly say he wouldn’t have helped

And you can’t honestly say we would have won with him.

 

[LmdCat]

I think too many people are trying to downplay the loss to uncw because DJ was unavailable, I don’t think so. A couple of games earlier we had to go to overtime to beat a similar team. Only beat St Joe because we shot 51, 48, 66, we lost because Shep was the only one who showed up, a couple of guys were 4for21 combined.

If you are going to suggest that we wouldn't have lost the UNCW game if DJ played, not sure why you think that, I think it is fair to suggest we lost the KU game because DJ was on the court jacking up shots that he had a snowballs chance of making. He forced that end of regulation shot that could have ended the game instead of passing the ball to an open teammate.

 

[HoneyMoon155]

And you can’t honestly say we would have won with him.

I think we have a better chance with him

 

[LmdCat]

And you can’t honestly say we would have won with him.

We lost that game because we couldn't throw a beachball into the ocean with one foot in the water. I am not sure how DJ wouldn't have changed that. If anything, I could see him jacking up bad shots that would have resulted in an greater margin of loss.

 

[HoneyMoon155]

If you are going to suggest that we wouldn't have lost the UNCW game if DJ played, not sure why you think that, I think it is fair to suggest we lost the KU game because DJ was on the court jacking up shots that he had a snowballs chance of making. He forced that end of regulation shot that could have ended the game instead of passing the ball to an open teammate.

Maybe we still lose, I am saying we had a better chance with him playing though. It really seems like you don’t want him on the team at all which I don’t get

 

[LmdCat]

Maybe we still lose, I am saying we had a better chance with him playing though. It really seems like you don’t want him on the team at all which I don’t get

If your wild imagination takes you to that conclusion, there is nothing I can do about it. However, if you have been reading my posts as you suggested, you know that my point is that I don't think he has earned the right to start. Using your logic, since you are not an advocate of starting Reed, you don't want him on the team.

 

[HoneyMoon155]

If your wild imagination takes you to that conclusion, there is nothing I can do about it, However, if you have been reading my posts as you suggested, you know that my point is that I don't think he has earned the right to start. Using your logic, since you are not an advocate of starting Reed, you don't want him on the team.

I’ve never once’s downed Reed like you do DJ. I think Reed is a fantastic player, and at this point maybe he does deserve to start, but him coming off the bench is working and he gets the same minutes so I don’t see the point in being upset about it.

 

[LmdCat]

I’ve never once’s downed Reed like you do DJ. I think Reed is a fantastic player, and at this point maybe he does deserve to start, but him coming off the bench is working and he gets the same minutes so I don’t see the point in being upset about it.

If you consider posting facts about a player as downing the player, that is on you. The fact that to this point DJ hasn't demonstrated that he is a good shooter is a simple fact. The fact that DJ misses way too many drives to the basket is simply another fact that you can't refute. Another fact is that DJ's shot selection is horrendous. As for you not downing Reed, what is there to down? The facts to this point won't support you or anyone else speaking badly of Reed. If the only thing that matters is the number of minutes played vs when those minutes are played, why not pull out some of the other starters let them come off the bench? I think you know that it would be insane to do that so don't bother answering. I am sure you will try to wordsmith some laughable answer.

 

[SaltyCat25]

If you consider posting facts about a player as downing the player, that is on you. The fact that to this point DJ hasn't demonstrated that he is a good shooter is a simple fact. The fact that DJ misses way too my drives to the best is simply another fact that you can't refute. Another fact is that DJ's shot selection is horrendous. As for you not downing Reed, what is there to down? The facts to the point won't support you or anyone else speaking badly of Reed. If the only thing that matters is the number of minutes played vs when those minutes are played, why not pull out some of the other starters let them come off the bench? I think you know that it would be insane to do that so don't bother answering. I am sure you will try to wordsmith some laughable answer.

Facts… he was 22-64 for 34% from the field and 5-21 from 3 for 21% his first 5 games.

He was 22-46 for 47.8% from the field and 5-15 from 3 for 33% his last 5 games.

His assists to turnover ratio greatly improved his last 5 games too.

DJ is growing and improving, trying to put him down and ignoring context of how his season has gone is so weird for a UK fan. You all watch the games and saw clear improvement lately but this is the takeaway?

 

[crestcat]

If you are going to suggest that we wouldn't have lost the UNCW game if DJ played, not sure why you think that, I think it is fair to suggest we lost the KU game because DJ was on the court jacking up shots that he had a snowballs chance of making. He forced that end of regulation shot that could have ended the game instead of passing the ball to an open teammate.

No, I’m saying the loss of DJ is not a good excuse for losing that one.

 

[LmdCat]

Facts… he was 22-64 for 34% from the field and 5-21 from 3 for 21% his first 5 games.

He was 22-46 for 47.8% from the field and 5-15 from 3 for 33% his last 5 games.

His assists to turnover ratio greatly improved his last 5 games too.

DJ is growing and improving, trying to put him down and ignoring context of how his season has gone is so weird for a UK fan. You all watch the games and saw clear improvement lately but this is the takeaway?

For the last time, I am not putting him down. I am being honest. This isn't the Boys and Girls Club where you get equal playing time for just showing up. DJ could grow and improve equally as well if he was coming off the bench instead of starting. It is all about rewarding players for on-court performance which encourages all players to work hard so that they are rewarded with starting and or more playing time. Playing time should be earned and not given just because of the number of stars you earned in high school. If the production was reversed and Reed was starting over DJ, you would be losing your mind and screaming preferential treatment because he is a Kentucky boy. If DJ numbers exceeds those of Reed, I will have no issues with him starting for the following reasonings: 1. The team will even be better because both players will truly be interchangeable. 2. DJ will have earned the starting job as opposed to it being given to him because of relationships with the family and attempting to maintain preseason draft status. As it stands now, the team has to be less than it could be because Cal and his followers are willing to give DJ what he is yet to earn.

I am not going to respond to any more posts about this subject because you are not going to change my mind on this. I have coached the game for many years and I have never given players playing time. All the players who I've coached had to earn their time. I was demanding of all of my players from the worst to the best which is the reason why my best players could shoot the ball as well as drive to the basket. This sport has become one that has way too many athletic players who are unable to shoot because their coaches didn't have the courage to be demanding of them. They have allowed them to get away with their speed and jumping abilities as if they would always be able to outrun or jump their opponents.

I recognize that each of us is entitled to their opinions, so with that said, I respect your right to your opinion even if I don't agree with it.

 

[TankedCat]

They play equal minutes so there’s really no favoritism. Some people just want to argue anything and everything Cal does.

I didn't say it was an issue with playing time, I'm saying if there is an issue with the fans, its because our arrogant coach who took the program to new lows during his tenure justifies playing his favorites with statements like "I'm not taking his heart" , "that's someone's son out there". "It would probably be easier when a guy plays poorly just to say, 'You're out, "I'm just not going to do that. I'm just not."" "Because I was being loyal to those other two who led us to a championship game a year ago and they deserve to be on that court. That’s why I did it. I knew who was playing well and who was struggling. You think I wasn’t sitting there watching?" and I could keep giving examples.

Everyone loves Cal in the moment because they think this team has the talent to do something this year, and they certainly do, but a tiger doesn't change his stripes. If Cal didn't have his butt handed to him by teams with lesser talent in the past with some embarrassing losses, then I'm 100% certain arrogant Cal would be doing his thing.

Maybe Cal truly wants to put the best players on the floor, or maybe he just knows UK fans tolerance level doesn't go beyond him sitting a very talented Kentucky kid whose parents were stand outs. See, that's the problem with Cal - while the Cal suckups think that statement is absurd, there is a history you can point to that validates my claim.

 

[UKortho]

@HoneyMoon155 said:
They play equal minutes so there’s really no favoritism. Some people just want to argue anything and everything Cal does.


To me, it’s not so much about the mpg, it’s about who’s taking more bad shots and who’s dishing out more assist. Wagner has taken 28 more shots than Sheppard and played one game less. With 28 more attempts, surely Wagner must be the better shooter? No. Well, surely with 28 more attempts, Wagner must have more made FGs? No, Sheppard has 4 more made FGs on 28 fewer shots.

Also, why is Wagner attempting 3.6 3-pointers per game while shooting 27.8% while Sheppard is only attempting slightly more at 4 3-pointers per game while shooting 57.8%. That’s well over twice the percentage that Wagner shoots but Wagner is trying to shoot as many.

Well since Wagner is the starting PG, surely he should lead the team in total assists for the season. Nope, that’s a tie between the 2 guards that come off the bench. Now surely Wagner would be third on the team in total assists after Sheppard and Dillingham. No again. Tre Mitchell has more assists on the season than Wagner too.

So it’s not so much about who gets what amount of minutes. It’s about who is forcing bad shots and taking too many. Sheppard is the best shooter in the team and is only 6th in shots taken. In the last 7 games, Wagner, Reeves, and Edwards have combined to only assist Sheppard on one FG. Jordan Burks has assisted him more over that time span. Edwards and Reeves don’t know what an assist is. Wagner does get assists some but still shoots too much and needs to pass a little more and he never assists Sheppard since the 4th game of the season when Sheppard went 9-10 and players were actually looking for him instead of him having to create on his own. That game, Sheppard was assisted on 7 of his 9 FGs.

Excellent post

 

[Padsfs07]

One thing that has been great is watching both of them make good entry passes into the post or the middle of the zone without throwing it away.

One thing Wagner does as a point guard is that he is very deliberate in pushing the ball or passing. I haven't seen that in a while. Alternately, Reed is very passive and sort of lulls the defense to sleep, then pounces. You all should really just enjoy them both. Their styles are so different that it's impossible to defend them both.

 

[HoneyMoon155]

I didn't say it was an issue with playing time, I'm saying if there is an issue with the fans, its because our arrogant coach who took the program to new lows during his tenure justifies playing his favorites with statements like "I'm not taking his heart" , "that's someone's son out there". "It would probably be easier when a guy plays poorly just to say, 'You're out, "I'm just not going to do that. I'm just not."" "Because I was being loyal to those other two who led us to a championship game a year ago and they deserve to be on that court. That’s why I did it. I knew who was playing well and who was struggling. You think I wasn’t sitting there watching?" and I could keep giving examples.

Everyone loves Cal in the moment because they think this team has the talent to do something this year, and they certainly do, but a tiger doesn't change his stripes. If Cal didn't have his butt handed to him by teams with lesser talent in the past with some embarrassing losses, then I'm 100% certain arrogant Cal would be doing his thing.

Maybe Cal truly wants to put the best players on the floor, or maybe he just knows UK fans tolerance level doesn't go beyond him sitting a very talented Kentucky kid whose parents were stand outs. See, that's the problem with Cal - while the Cal suckups think that statement is absurd, there is a history you can point to that validates my claim.

But it’s not happening, he’s not playing favorites, so why exactly is there an issue is all I’m saying. It’s not justifiable. Not everything had to be a Cal lover vs Cal hater thing, and that’s all this is. And I’m no Cal lover, I’ve hated the past few years but this is just a stupid thing to be upset about or argue about it’s not even an issue

 

[TankedCat]

But it’s not happening, he’s not playing favorites, so why exactly is there an issue is all I’m saying. It’s not justifiable. Not everything had to be a Cal lover vs Cal hater thing, and that’s all this is. And I’m no Cal lover, I’ve hated the past few years but this is just a stupid thing to be upset about or argue about it’s not even an issue

you can say whatever, if the fans are voicing concerns - its their lack of faith in Cal's objectivity and decision making. As long as we're winning, its great. We lose an important game because Wagner shoots 23% and takes 7 more shots than Sheppard and then it will be too late to talk about what is justifiable in December. It will be just another year of Calipari player management

 

[shodaman]

Very good post, I really don’t understand why this is even an issue, the team is playing good and they get equal minutes so there’s no favoritism. Not sure what people want

bitchers gonna bitch

 

[Justwantadecentteam]

Don't know, if I've fallen under Cal's spell, but I see his visions this season and I also like my team. 1 of the most complete teams imo. Going to be an exciting finish.

 

[SaltyCat25]

Curious. It does raise my eyebrow as well. Like you mentioned, Wagner and Edwards may just be more of a ball hog'ish type rather than anything personal coming into play... regardless, I hope our guards can increase effective distribution of the ball to our best shooters (shep,reeves, dilly, Mitchell). Time will tell.
Oh and FWIW.
I was accused of just 'wanting something to conplain about' when I witnessed an odd interaction at the end of one of our ball games. Sometimes our eyes will tell us something and heaven forbid we share anything remotely negative regarding our boys. Even posted as a question, or passing opinion. Lol.
Thanks for the insight.

Wagner and Sheppard don’t play together much and when they do Wagner plays off the ball. Watch the video of every 3 Reed Sheppard has made and tell me how many times DJ was in the game. Watch the highlight video of DJ in the UNC game, tell me how many times Reed was in the game. LOL at your eyes telling you something when they don’t play together much. The jealousy angle is made up BS.


Seriously, use that eye test and tell me how often they’re on the court together. Let’s get to the bottom of this jealousy.

 

[HagginHall1999]

you can say whatever, if the fans are voicing concerns - its their lack of faith in Cal's objectivity and decision making. As long as we're winning, its great. We lose an important game because Wagner shoots 23% and takes 7 more shots than Sheppard and then it will be too late to talk about what is justifiable in December. It will be just another year of Calipari player management

People who are complaining "can say whatever" too. Wagner does stuff that Shep can't do and Shep does stuff that Wagner can't do. Wagner is the only guard strong enough to get to rim at will. He is also far and away the most competitive/will to win at all cost guy that we have.

Let's be really clear here...if we are winning #9, DJ has to be really good. Reed cannot play 80 minutes a game. Rob is fun to watch but is hit or miss. We need them both.

Cal knows what he has in Reed and clearly has full trust in him. He is getting DJ where he needs to be. The DJ we got vs NC is the DJ we need to win #9. His ability to get to rim is special.