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UK v. WKU

Comebakatz3

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 8, 2008
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Well, UK took a 3-1 lead into the 9th and went to Spencer Jack to close the game out and he gave up a two run home run with two outs. We're now in the top of the 10th and UK has a new pitcher and WKU has a runner on third with 2 outs. Schaenzer is on the mound for UK.
 
We followed that up with a 2 out double to give them a 5-3 lead. Just ridiculous.
 
UK got Tom on through a walk. He then stole second with two outs (???) before Shelby fouled out between third and home.
 
UK is now 2-8 in last 10 games with WKU......that should be a fireable offense right there!
This post was edited on 4/15 8:10 AM by 167Hike
 
Henderson was proactive with a pitching change and it cost him. I can't fault goin to Jack for the final 2 outs.
 
Originally posted by 167Hike:
UK is not 2-8 in last 10 games with WKU......that should be a fireable offense right there!
Pretty much agree. Unless they make a dramatic turnaround fast, they will likely miss the SEC Tourney this year. Have stopped feeling like Henderson can get it done at UK.
 
Once again UK pulls defeat from the jaws of victory. Stopped listening after the game tying HR, knew they were done for !
 
What the sad part of last night's game is the kid who got the game tying 2 run HR is from UK's backyard, Lafayette HS. He wasn't even recruited by Henderson. I'm not the "we need KY players just for having KY players sake'" but U of L and WKU have come into Lexington and gotten quality talent from under Henderson's nose. Along with his lack of managing skills, it just shows how incompetent Henderson is.
 
Once again Henderson shows that he has no real feel for the game. Salow has no one out in the top of the 9th and strikes out the first hitter. He pitched the inning before and while he did give up a walk, he didn't give up a single hit. Plus, as I said, he started the 9th of very strong. Salow would have been facing the 8 and 9 hitters in the lineup, so it was not as though Henderson needed to go to his closer to get some real hard outs. I know Salow has struggled, but so has Jack, so either way wasn't that good of a call, but Salow looked to have a hot hand and Henderson took him out.
 
Originally posted by Comebakatz3:
Once again Henderson shows that he has no real feel for the game. Salow has no one out in the top of the 9th and strikes out the first hitter. He pitched the inning before and while he did give up a walk, he didn't give up a single hit. Plus, as I said, he started the 9th of very strong. Salow would have been facing the 8 and 9 hitters in the lineup, so it was not as though Henderson needed to go to his closer to get some real hard outs. I know Salow has struggled, but so has Jack, so either way wasn't that good of a call, but Salow looked to have a hot hand and Henderson took him out.
This can all be true - but hard to know if you weren't there (which I wasn't - so I cant say)...I will say that he always gets blasted for leaving guys in too long, so I cant fault him for manning up and making a tough decision. didn't work out...doesn't mean Salow would have shut them down either (he also could've mowed through them, will never know)
 
Originally posted by cats1068:
What the sad part of last night's game is the kid who got the game tying 2 run HR is from UK's backyard, Lafayette HS. He wasn't even recruited by Henderson. I'm not the "we need KY players just for having KY players sake'" but U of L and WKU have come into Lexington and gotten quality talent from under Henderson's nose. Along with his lack of managing skills, it just shows how incompetent Henderson is.
I don't disagree with you, but we actually have more KY players than Louisville. They have gotten some solid players from Lexington and that is a shame, but I think the biggest deal is that Louisville has done a much better job identifying talent and developing it. UK has gotten some highly ranked classes, and that is fantastic, but our pitchers still have not developed, or been managed, as well as Louisville's have. I think Henderson does just fine recruiting. In fact, I think it is less about him and more about the other assistant coaches that do well in recruiting, but again... he is our pitching coach and our pitching stinks.
 
UK has recruited well on individual talent...but you cant say Henderson has recruited a team based on his coaching philosophy.

His teams don't have a calling card, no identity and his recruiting seems to be the same...nice group of individuals that have no rhyme or reason to be grouped together.
 
Just saw a tweet from Derek Terry stating that UK is 2-8 in its last 10 contests against WKU.
 
Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
Originally posted by Comebakatz3:
Once again Henderson shows that he has no real feel for the game. Salow has no one out in the top of the 9th and strikes out the first hitter. He pitched the inning before and while he did give up a walk, he didn't give up a single hit. Plus, as I said, he started the 9th of very strong. Salow would have been facing the 8 and 9 hitters in the lineup, so it was not as though Henderson needed to go to his closer to get some real hard outs. I know Salow has struggled, but so has Jack, so either way wasn't that good of a call, but Salow looked to have a hot hand and Henderson took him out.
This can all be true - but hard to know if you weren't there (which I wasn't - so I cant say)...I will say that he always gets blasted for leaving guys in too long, so I cant fault him for manning up and making a tough decision. didn't work out...doesn't mean Salow would have shut them down either (he also could've mowed through them, will never know)
That is very true. It is hard to really say. I was watching the game on my computer, but wasn't paying a ton of attention. However, I think one of the most important parts of a game manager is to know their pitchers limits, know when they have good stuff, and know when they don't. Those things are the feel for the game I was referring to. Henderson, IMO, struggles with actually knowing his pitchers and what they are capable of. Last night it appeared that Salow was throwing some good stuff. He just got a strikeout, had not given up a hit, and had worked a clean slate the inning before. Yet Henderson yanked him. Maybe it was the right call, but it doesn't look like it. Had Salow struggled and thrown a lot of balls in the first at bat of the inning, or had given up a deep fly ball that was almost a home run then it is understandable to go to the pen, but after a 4 pitch strikeout? The adverse of that is that Henderson doesn't seem to really be able to pick up on when his pitchers begin to tire and miss the zone. When they tire and leave the ball up is when big innings happen. If you know a pitcher may be coming up on his limits then it is typically good to prepare and mitigate the damages. Henderson doesn't seem to do this too often.

So, yes, I seem like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I think it is really just one general issue of Henderson having no feel for the game and/or his pitching staff.


Our recruiting has been solid with good individual talent, and I really agree that our team has no direction. Last year we were a home run team. This year we're supposed to be a small ball and pitching (hahaha) team. We've had several years where we haven't had people to fill roles. Bernal was a 1st baseman last year and basically had to move to third out of necessity. Kuhn was there last year, but really struggled defensively. We also seem to often use pitchers kind of strangely. Andrew Nelson was a pretty decent weekend starter last year and yet he didn't even get his first start this year until yesterday, and it was only a few innings (injured?). Dwyer was used for 56 innings last year and this year he has only thrown 19. Combs was used a lot last year and so far this year has just one appearance. Could probably list a lot more things that make me scratch my head. Still, I think the individual recruiting is pretty decent. However, the lack of direction and development really drive me crazy.
 
Originally posted by Comebakatz3:


Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Originally posted by Comebakatz3:
Once again Henderson shows that he has no real feel for the game. Salow has no one out in the top of the 9th and strikes out the first hitter. He pitched the inning before and while he did give up a walk, he didn't give up a single hit. Plus, as I said, he started the 9th of very strong. Salow would have been facing the 8 and 9 hitters in the lineup, so it was not as though Henderson needed to go to his closer to get some real hard outs. I know Salow has struggled, but so has Jack, so either way wasn't that good of a call, but Salow looked to have a hot hand and Henderson took him out.
This can all be true - but hard to know if you weren't there (which I wasn't - so I cant say)...I will say that he always gets blasted for leaving guys in too long, so I cant fault him for manning up and making a tough decision. didn't work out...doesn't mean Salow would have shut them down either (he also could've mowed through them, will never know)
That is very true. It is hard to really say. I was watching the game on my computer, but wasn't paying a ton of attention. However, I think one of the most important parts of a game manager is to know their pitchers limits, know when they have good stuff, and know when they don't. Those things are the feel for the game I was referring to. Henderson, IMO, struggles with actually knowing his pitchers and what they are capable of. Last night it appeared that Salow was throwing some good stuff. He just got a strikeout, had not given up a hit, and had worked a clean slate the inning before. Yet Henderson yanked him. Maybe it was the right call, but it doesn't look like it. Had Salow struggled and thrown a lot of balls in the first at bat of the inning, or had given up a deep fly ball that was almost a home run then it is understandable to go to the pen, but after a 4 pitch strikeout? The adverse of that is that Henderson doesn't seem to really be able to pick up on when his pitchers begin to tire and miss the zone. When they tire and leave the ball up is when big innings happen. If you know a pitcher may be coming up on his limits then it is typically good to prepare and mitigate the damages. Henderson doesn't seem to do this too often.

So, yes, I seem like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I think it is really just one general issue of Henderson having no feel for the game and/or his pitching staff.


Our recruiting has been solid with good individual talent, and I really agree that our team has no direction. Last year we were a home run team. This year we're supposed to be a small ball and pitching (hahaha) team. We've had several years where we haven't had people to fill roles. Bernal was a 1st baseman last year and basically had to move to third out of necessity. Kuhn was there last year, but really struggled defensively. We also seem to often use pitchers kind of strangely. Andrew Nelson was a pretty decent weekend starter last year and yet he didn't even get his first start this year until yesterday, and it was only a few innings (injured?). Dwyer was used for 56 innings last year and this year he has only thrown 19. Combs was used a lot last year and so far this year has just one appearance. Could probably list a lot more things that make me scratch my head. Still, I think the individual recruiting is pretty decent. However, the lack of direction and development really drive me crazy.
100%
 
I have no problem with Henderson going to his closer last night and Jack just didn't execute. However, Henderson did not used Spencer Jack in the Double Header vs Texas AM specially in the 2nd game when the game was tied and Cody was brought in and he promptly gave up 3 runs and UK got swept. Maybe it is that simple that the players don't have defined roles in the bullpen and therefore create inconsistencies.
 
Originally posted by DubyaT:
Just saw a tweet from Derek Terry stating that UK is 2-8 in its last 10 contests against WKU.
UK was swept in 2010, 2013 and 2015. UK's only wins since 2009 have been in 2012 and 2014.

This post was edited on 4/15 2:12 PM by Derek Terry
 
Originally posted by Gabewcat:
I have no problem with Henderson going to his closer last night and Jack just didn't execute. However, Henderson did not used Spencer Jack in the Double Header vs Texas AM specially in the 2nd game when the game was tied and Cody was brought in and he promptly gave up 3 runs and UK got swept. Maybe it is that simple that the players don't have defined roles in the bullpen and therefore create inconsistencies.
Cody was used in the 6th inning of the second TAMU game. It wasn't really a save/closer type situation. That entire weekend was weird for Henderson though. First he used Zack Brown exclusively in the first game. Rather than stop any bleeding he just let Brown pitch the whole 7. This, allegedly, was so that we had plenty of arms for the second game. Instead, we have Beggs, who regularly throws over 100 pitches, go just 5 innings before handing the ball off to another starter, Cody, who gives up 3 runs. Why the heck did we pitch Brown a full 7 but went early to the pen with Beggs? Why did we save our pen in the first game when we didn't even use it in the second? Just a weird weekend.

To be fair to Henderson, I know why he did what he did. Salow is a lefty and he went out to face Scanlon, also a guy that bats lefty. Then Henderson brought in RHP Jack to face two right-handers. I get it. He was playing the matchups, and that is fine. I don't think there was anything strategically wrong with what Henderson did. The book probably says he is right to do it. However, I think there is another factor, as I have discussed, and that is a feel for the game, and in particular your pitchers. Knowing when they are throwing good stuff and knowing that they can get you out of the situation without having to play the matchups or go by the book. I just don't think Henderson has this feel. Whether it is just a lack of actual connection to the pitchers themselves or just a lack of instinct, I don't know, but too often there seem to be a lot of managerial mistakes. Still, I think a bigger problem with him is his inability to put together a complete bullpen and develop his pitchers. As I have said numerous times... we've never been a top half of the SEC pitching staff, not once since he has been here. Not good.
 
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