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Tom Heitz perspective about Pope and UK (need facebook)
- Thread starter davekersey
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Yeah, that was not worth it.
Really hating the anti logical thought to defend the roster so far I see around here.
yeah, the players are average, but when have above average players done anything.
Really hating the anti logical thought to defend the roster so far I see around here.
yeah, the players are average, but when have above average players done anything.
IKR, when has a below average coach done anything with elite recruiting class after elite recruiting class?
The roster is fine lmao Teams win big with a bunch of average, but good, college players all the time. Experience and age/maturity matters. A lot.
Interesting on the Hurley stuff.. wish he was able to divulge, because this is now all in the past.
My only hope is that with the money saved on the salary, which is going to be close to $7mil/year than what Hurley was getting.. that we make sure there isn't a single area of the Athletic department/Basketball program that's lacking. New dorms? Do it. New state-of-the-art training equipment? yes. Cheerleaders want breast implants? Absolutely.
My only hope is that with the money saved on the salary, which is going to be close to $7mil/year than what Hurley was getting.. that we make sure there isn't a single area of the Athletic department/Basketball program that's lacking. New dorms? Do it. New state-of-the-art training equipment? yes. Cheerleaders want breast implants? Absolutely.
Really need to get the facilities updated. 15 year old facilities are a lifetime old in the college arms race. 15 year old facilities don’t cut it in CFB either. Other programs have better facilities than us. Including Uconn and duke. It’s time to update.
That's EXACTLY my thought. A lot of people got on Cal for some of his issues with the facilities, but he wasn't wrong about them. Now he's gone, but we still have the same questions on those. I'd like to think our basketball facilities should NEVER fall below top5 in the nation. And the minute they do, there should be a planning meeting to discuss getting them back into the best in the nation. If you want to be the best basketball program that kids want to go to.. you have to spend the money.
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I agree about the facilities. It didn’t bother me when Cal was here because Cal didn’t deserve new facilities. But now that we’ve cleaned house let’s get it done.
All due respect to him but 1) noone is giving Mitch credit for getting out of the 33 mil because he did nothing to get out of it. He was saved.
2) we did not get pope at a discount. He's one of the highest paid coaches in the sport and he hasn't even won an NCAA tournament game.
2) we did not get pope at a discount. He's one of the highest paid coaches in the sport and he hasn't even won an NCAA tournament game.
It's very bizarre that I have no doubt Pope would have come for less but Mitch still overpayed.
Hahaha, fancy new facilities mattered in the 2010's. Who is gonna put the most NIL folding money in my pockets? That's what matters to kids in 2024.
Across college sports the move in recent seasons by smart athletic departments is to ask boosters to shift donations from facilities to funding NIL. Because that's the new method to get talented ballplayers. No free agent in the NBA or NFL sign with the franchises with the "best facilities", they go where they make the most money and the most sucess in postseason.
Sorry, this isn't 2004 anymore. Spend $20M on NIL deals, not on a freaking practice building.
Across college sports the move in recent seasons by smart athletic departments is to ask boosters to shift donations from facilities to funding NIL. Because that's the new method to get talented ballplayers. No free agent in the NBA or NFL sign with the franchises with the "best facilities", they go where they make the most money and the most sucess in postseason.
Sorry, this isn't 2004 anymore. Spend $20M on NIL deals, not on a freaking practice building.
No matter what you post on here, there are a number who will find fault with what you say.
Yep. Two first team All conference members, and two different players projected as lottery picks. Just plain Jane average players.
It's, "I trust Joker over Rivals" all over again.
this is so stupid. It is for the PLAYERS, not Cal. You think Cal would be out there jacking up shots and working out ? Damn dude, your hate for Cal has your brain all kinds of effed up. WHY hurt the kids because you hate the coach ??? Your post makes ZERO sense. Punish the players because they played under Cal FOR UK, great logic.
1) Mitch B doesn’t get credit for not having to pay Cals buyout. That was all Arkansas.
2) $5.5/mil with the additional year for a sweet 16 was not a good price for Pope. He’s way overpaid for his experience/results. He was paid $2mil at BYU, I think $3mil would be a fair price. Also, if he doesn’t work out that Sweet 16 clause could make it much more expensive to buy him out. Clearly Mitch didn’t learn his lesson of overpaying coaches and locking them into contracts at aren’t good for UK.
2) $5.5/mil with the additional year for a sweet 16 was not a good price for Pope. He’s way overpaid for his experience/results. He was paid $2mil at BYU, I think $3mil would be a fair price. Also, if he doesn’t work out that Sweet 16 clause could make it much more expensive to buy him out. Clearly Mitch didn’t learn his lesson of overpaying coaches and locking them into contracts at aren’t good for UK.
Yeah, you’re stupid too. MOEron. Thanks for your irrelevant opinion of my irrelevant opinion. Hope you get the working and playing well with others thing figured out. Love you. Peace ✌🏼
Perhaps he should have come here with no salary so he could prove his worth.😉
I'd support you as basketball Director of Operations.
The salary is based on the demands and expectations required at the job. Pope hasn't experienced the success of a top coach but he's also been handcuffed. He has 3-4 yrs to prove himself worthy.
Definitely not how negotiations work. You pay what it takes to get a yes and absolutely no more. We paid a premium and guaranteed 75% of it for no reason other than our ad is awful at negotiating.
You are talking about coaching the UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY Basketball Team. No way it is a 3 mil a year job for anyone. Just the pressure of this job is a 5 mil a year job. Why do you think some of the bigger names pass on this job. Pope at 5.5mil is right on. Pope is working around the clock for UK. You would not get that will many of the others that have been discussed. It might take 2 years on the high school ranks to get Pope and what he does out there. If Pope brings this team (with or without the "DUDE" some are discussing, if he brings them together and they make a nice run in SEC, SEC Tourney and NCAA tourney ( Sweet 16 or better) then we will see guys fall in line out of high school. Even so Pope will not take a ton of Freshman recruits. He will still hit the portal each year hard. We need a combination of all 3 (players staying, Portal and a few high school players) to get us where we need to be.
After the facts dont count. How many of their players started as 5 Stars? I guess they hsd a good coach.
They won a national championship with 2 top 15 draft picks and we got beat by Oakland with 2 projected in the top 10. They had WAY MORE than “ave. players”.
When you go buy a car, do you see the sticker price and offer to pay them even more? Of course not. You (hopefully) negotiate the price down.
You pay what it takes to close the deal and no more. We could've had pope at 3-3.5 mil on a standard contract. Instead mitch overpaid and guaranteed it plus a bunch of easy extension incentives.
Only Mitch..
It depends on the market and product!! Have you heard of a C8 Z06. For almost 2 years, people have been paying way over sticker price. You can argue they are stupid, but it won’t get you a C8 Z06.
A $4M job is Arizona for Pope. Kentucky is a whole other beast/wildcat. It isn’t just about his experience, it is about the expectation UK brings. The unique challenges of the fan base.
All you have to do is look at the press conference for his introduction. You can say that is a lot of support, but you can also say that is a lot of expectation.
It humbled the previous coach to the point he took less to leave. He is not a humble man!
I do not like Mitch at all. Even hate typing the name. But I also cannot say that MB just said here is 5.5 mil. I was not in the room or part of the discussion. Heck he could have started at 3 mil and Pope said nope, I will stay where I am for that amount. I am sure with Pope's education he would have said yes you know I want it and you know what, I know what it is going to take to get us there and I might start out good with the fan base but you and i know that they turn quick. I will not take the abuse. I want 7 mil that is 2 less than Cal. Back and forth.
But again he could have said the job pays 5.5 mil as we are a blue blood and that is the going rate. Too hard to tell about the money.
I like the car buying analogy but during covid with new car inventory at an all time low, most people went into bidding wars and paid as much as 10% over sticker / delivery and such. I bought a 2022 in Oct 2021 and did not fall for any of that. While at the dealership us and another couple wanted the same car and they drove up the price and bought car 1. I went outside with the wife and said lets drive this one. Liked it, bought it with the manufacturer discounts. No extra. While car vs stone blue car. Silly I know.
Exactly. Market and product. Noone else was vying to hire him and the product never won an NCAA tournament game. Only a fool would give him this contract.
Let's say for arguments sake he wouldn't accept his dream job for a pay increase of over a mil per year.
Even if...no way you guarantee 75% of that money and out in extensions and raises like he gets.
If you followed the C8 Z06, you would understand it wasn’t about Covid. It was about collector’s getting their hands on a brand new version of the corvette.
It did not help that the last coach left during the Final Four weekend. Given that it was an almost certainty all of the players except Perry leaving and recruiting the transfer portal had already started in earnest. Mitch had to act quickly and decisively to get a coach and almost as importantly the assistants in place to get a competitive team in place for next year.
If this had been a month earlier, you might have gotten Pope at between $4-5M. But what some don’t understand is that you pay a coach at Ky more than you would at Arizona or even North Carolina to add to it’s brand. Part of the brand is how much the coach makes. It certainly isn’t everything, but it is part of the brand.
At one point Saban had never won a single CFB game. Cal never pulled so many 5 star recruits before Kentucky. The point being there’s always a starting point.
I seriously doubt Mitch just said hey Mark it’s Mitch will you come for 5 million? I’m sure he started higher than BYU, why wouldn’t he? Pope is a smart educated man as well and probably could sense some desperation in Mitch. So why wouldn’t Pope ask for more when he knew he could get it? Honestly, in today’s market 3 to 5 isn’t that big of an increase when you consider what other coaches make at schools on the same level as Kentucky are making. The truth is we all can only speculate what was said but Mitch wanted to and needed to close the deal and Pope wanted to be here. I was a bit shocked at first but you could also look at it from CMP standpoint of he took half of what the former coach did and you could debate he could do as well as or better with the UK branding than what we experienced for last 5 years or so.
There is no way to prove your argument or mine. You were not in the negotiations and neither was I.
We get it, you don’t like Mitch.
It wasn't after the fact. Two of those players were all conference before they got to Connecticut. One scored 18 points a game, one scored 19 points a game. They didn't get guys they hoped could score. They got guys they knew could score. And they had 2 years of eligibility. One to contribute, one to star.
The 5 Star thing, that's your hang up. I don't care where dudes come from, as long as there is strong evidence they can be dudes next year.
That’s not how things work. You take the job for what you’re worth….2-3mil and if you succeed then you get 5-6 million. The only other person who thinks like you is apparently Mitch B.
I think Mitch is probably a great person but he's obviously an awful negotiator. It isn't like we don't have a track record of his greatest hits. The price alone is bad enough but the guarantee is classic Mitch
One thing I will give you on the price is Mitch's failure to vet drew definitely weakened his position. I even said at that very time, this collosal failure would cost money because desperation was on the air.
Lol yes high school nick saban is the same as Pope's mature career.
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