Exactly, it’s like hey kid, you guys are gonna smash NW State tonight, huge bet on you not hitting 400 yards or 4TD’s, let’s make a deal. You still win, get paid. It’s all good.
Sports -- how often do you think that "the fix is in?"
- Thread starter J_Dee
- Start date
A lot. But for which reasons, I’m not sure. Money? Probably. Personal bias? Likely.
It’s too easy to swing games. Foul calls or lack of foul calls to extend or stop momentum in basketball. Holding and PI calls in football. There’s illegal contact of some sort on every play. When there inconsistency, what else would be the reason? And list goes on in each sport.
But that doesn’t mean the outcome is always fixed or even that the fixing works. Sometimes, teams can do no wrong or even do now right. So the calls are still subjective to how the teams perform.
It’s too easy to swing games. Foul calls or lack of foul calls to extend or stop momentum in basketball. Holding and PI calls in football. There’s illegal contact of some sort on every play. When there inconsistency, what else would be the reason? And list goes on in each sport.
But that doesn’t mean the outcome is always fixed or even that the fixing works. Sometimes, teams can do no wrong or even do now right. So the calls are still subjective to how the teams perform.
Are you saying the Suns Spurs wasn't fixed? I'm sure the courts that threw Donahy in prison would like to hear from you.
And, they sent out a video instructing teams on how to report correctly, and they showed the Detroit lineman properly reporting and said it was wrong.
Not only do they cheat - they gaslight you in the process.
Yes. Games 2 & 5 were particularly egregious in favor of Sacramento. Game 6 was in favor of the Lakers.
The Lakers might have won that series in 5 games had it been officiated cleanly. Might have actually swept had they gotten out of Sacramento 2-0 as they should have.
Few things I have seen this year that dose make me question.
1 game we have an opposing player go down under their basket, we are on a 4-5 and they stop the game to help the player who was in no danger. Next game we have Dill go down in the lane while they are on offense and they let the play continue with dill trying to crawl out of bounds and out of the way. Refs let them play with a injured player in harms way.
Another time I see Trey get called for a cylinder foul while getting elbow to the face, next game I see it not called on the opponent and try get call a flag 1.
I saw Z do a chin up on a basket get called for a tech. next game seen an a opponent do a pull up and no call.
Seen us get called for a 3 second call while opponents sit in the lane for 6+ seconds.
Seen us get pushed out from under the basket with no call.
1 game we have an opposing player go down under their basket, we are on a 4-5 and they stop the game to help the player who was in no danger. Next game we have Dill go down in the lane while they are on offense and they let the play continue with dill trying to crawl out of bounds and out of the way. Refs let them play with a injured player in harms way.
Another time I see Trey get called for a cylinder foul while getting elbow to the face, next game I see it not called on the opponent and try get call a flag 1.
I saw Z do a chin up on a basket get called for a tech. next game seen an a opponent do a pull up and no call.
Seen us get called for a 3 second call while opponents sit in the lane for 6+ seconds.
Seen us get pushed out from under the basket with no call.
A FIX IS IN ON GAMES MORE THAN YOU WANT TO BELIEVE. COLLEGE AND PRO ALOT MORE THAN HIGH SCHOOL.
After Sacremento got back in the series they basically stole the last 2 games from them too.
Maybe it was game 5 and 6, I know for sure game 6 was stolen when they could have won it.
It's like bacteria. Wherever it can grow, it will grow. Horse racing and boxing are so easy to fix. NASCAR races are weighted at restrictor plate tracks. They literally hand out different plates to different drivers. Basketball is easy because you can slack on defense.
Correct.
After the refs handed the Kings games 2 & 5.
People know about game 6 because it was the Lakers’ chance to be eliminated.
No one cared when the Kings got favorable calls.
They were playing David to the Lakers’ Goliath.
NFL - commonMost refs and players are honest (I hope). But in my humble opinion I think that it's an absolute truth that many, many games, at every level from high school to college to the pros, have been rigged. A handful of some of the better-known instances:
I just don't think that it's a common occurrence, especially with modern games since modern games have a lot of eyes of 'em thanks to the internet and the fact that millions own high-def TVs that have the ability to rewind live broadcasts. I have an acquaintance who disagrees, however, and he basically mocked me earlier today for not thinking that the Super Bowl's 100% scripted ("It's 'sports entertainment', that whole spiel) and that everyone on the field is just an actor following a script. I think that's ridiculous. 60+ thousand at the game. 120+ million watching from home, replaying every bad call on those big, crystal-clear screens -- somebody's eventually going to catch something definitive if anything even remotely sus is going on, and the money lost because of it would-be absolutely freaking mind-boggling.
Now an event like a regular-season college basketball game, though, that's a totally different story. There's thousands of D1 games played per season, and most of them don't matter and/or are watched by only a handful of fans, so yeah, I'd say that bad eggs most definitely covertly stink up games for profit from time to time.
How bad do you think it is?
NBL - very common
NHL - very uncommon
NCAA bball - common
Call me biased but they also wanted (major city market) LA to win over (small-market) Cincinnati in the Super Bowl a couple of years ago that was in their brand new stadium.
People forget about that one. The Cheats should never even have been in Memphis.
I think it happens plenty. Listen to that disgraced ref Tim Donna something and listen to the subtle ways they could have an affect on the outcome. College basketball is called different from possession to possession sometimes. But I think the NFL is the most blatant. Human nature hasn't changed and money, damn the consequences because we'll prob get away with it, is still the biggest motivator on earth.
Game 5 was awful and the Kings got crazy refs. Lakers got crazy refs in the fourth quarter of Game 6 (Kings got refs up until then). Remember, Kobe torched the Kings in Game One, then magically got food poisoning before Game Two. The Kings shot 19 more FT's during the series, and the Lakers had 8 FT's on intentional fouls (four in Game 1 and four in Game 7). So outside of the fourth quarter of Game Six (definitely a fix), and the intentional fouls, Sacramento shot 45 MORE FT's than the Lakers. People complain about Game Six, which was obviously a fix, but they ignore all of the nonsense that went on in other games. The Kings choked in Game 7 when they couldn't hit FT's, and if the Kings win Game 7, no one talks about Game 6.
It was; the Kings choked at the line.
Game One: Lakers controlled
Game Two: Kings win after Kobe gets food poisoning between Games One and Two
Game Three: Kings dominate
Game Four: Lakers hit buzzer beaters to end both halves. Samaki Walker's three should not have counted, but it was very close
Game Five: Kings got crazy refs; Shaq was destroying Sacramento, but was fouled out
Game Six: Kings got refs until the fourth quarter. Obviously, the league wanted a seventh game, and got it. If the Lakers take Game Five, refs likely favor Kings
Game Seven: Straight. Kings could not make FT's
The Kings outshot the Lakers in FT's 204-185. The Lakers shot eight FT's from Intentional Fouls in all games not including Game Six. The Lakers shot 27 FT's to the Kings' 9 in the fourth quarter of Game Six. This means that outside of that fourth quarter (Kings committed two intentional fouls), and the other Intentional fouls, the Kings shot 195 FT's, and the Lakers shot 150. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. The Kings got screwed in Game Six, but they lost it for themselves in Game 7.
I know that FT count is not an accurate way of doing things, but all the people crying about Game Six point to the 27-9 FT disparity in the fourth quarter of that game.
im telling you , you can buy games by having business' of boosters do business or sponsor a conference or NCAA in general. The NCAA and conferences can control games legally... by law its entertainment so they could show texts of the SEC telling SEC officials to make sure Auburn wins.... and UK would lose any lawsuit they'd bring due to NCAA being filed under entertainment just like Wrestling is.
when you hear about refs being punished or in deep trouble, its because they are going rogue.
when you hear about refs being punished or in deep trouble, its because they are going rogue.
A Toilet Block, A Drug Smuggler, A Derided Referee - The Legacy Of Byron Moreno
What lasting legacy would you like to see constructed in honour of your work? A statue? A plaque? A road sign? A toilet? No, definitely…
www.thesportsman.com
Sadly more often than we'd like to think. I'll share a HS story with you that if this is taking place in HS, surely it's not out of realm to think there is similar behavior with more $ at stake and fact that officials can impact a game by not causing a team to lose but simply manipulating the point spread.
Played a team 2 yrs in a row and had same guy as one of the 3 officials. In a tie game with less than 2 seconds left and the opponent having an inbounds play after taking a timeout in the backcourt-he called our team for a foul 75 feet from the basket for simply running to turn the ball handler. Same official. Same teams, same call. The first time he called it-they won on made FT, the second year our team survived when player missed front end of 1 and 1 and won in OT. We turned him into the state afterwards as part of our job is to evaluate officials and 99% of the time you are complimentary-but in this case, we sent in video of both games and fact he worked both-made the call that clearly wasn't a foul in either game--he was removed from officiating in the State. The odds of that call being made back to back years is one thing, but for him to make that call with same teams involved...led to finding out he was friends with AD of the opposing school and played on Softball team in Summer with him and it was just blatant screwing kids over to help a buddy out. Pathetic? I think so. Surprised? Sadly, not at all.
So when you add big $, ego to the highest degree, of course there are games being manipulated and fixed.
Played a team 2 yrs in a row and had same guy as one of the 3 officials. In a tie game with less than 2 seconds left and the opponent having an inbounds play after taking a timeout in the backcourt-he called our team for a foul 75 feet from the basket for simply running to turn the ball handler. Same official. Same teams, same call. The first time he called it-they won on made FT, the second year our team survived when player missed front end of 1 and 1 and won in OT. We turned him into the state afterwards as part of our job is to evaluate officials and 99% of the time you are complimentary-but in this case, we sent in video of both games and fact he worked both-made the call that clearly wasn't a foul in either game--he was removed from officiating in the State. The odds of that call being made back to back years is one thing, but for him to make that call with same teams involved...led to finding out he was friends with AD of the opposing school and played on Softball team in Summer with him and it was just blatant screwing kids over to help a buddy out. Pathetic? I think so. Surprised? Sadly, not at all.
So when you add big $, ego to the highest degree, of course there are games being manipulated and fixed.
With NIL it'll get worse given time.Most refs and players are honest (I hope). But in my humble opinion I think that it's an absolute truth that many, many games, at every level from high school to college to the pros, have been rigged. A handful of some of the better-known instances:
I just don't think that it's a common occurrence, especially with modern games since modern games have a lot of eyes of 'em thanks to the internet and the fact that millions own high-def TVs that have the ability to rewind live broadcasts. I have an acquaintance who disagrees, however, and he basically mocked me earlier today for not thinking that the Super Bowl's 100% scripted ("It's 'sports entertainment', that whole spiel) and that everyone on the field is just an actor following a script. I think that's ridiculous. 60+ thousand at the game. 120+ million watching from home, replaying every bad call on those big, crystal-clear screens -- somebody's eventually going to catch something definitive if anything even remotely sus is going on, and the money lost because of it would-be absolutely freaking mind-boggling.
Now an event like a regular-season college basketball game, though, that's a totally different story. There's thousands of D1 games played per season, and most of them don't matter and/or are watched by only a handful of fans, so yeah, I'd say that bad eggs most definitely covertly stink up games for profit from time to time.
How bad do you think it is?
2 straight Super Bowls (not this year) decided by "judgement" PI calls at the end. One obviously wrong, and the other had not been called all game until the end.
AFC Championship game last year, last 2 minutes.
2017 UNCheat run. Not only UK game, there was video for the title game of the PG sliding both feet right in front of the refs and nothing called. And Arkansas (I think) had them beat early in the tournament and they got shafted.
2015 Wisconsin....
AFC Championship game last year, last 2 minutes.
2017 UNCheat run. Not only UK game, there was video for the title game of the PG sliding both feet right in front of the refs and nothing called. And Arkansas (I think) had them beat early in the tournament and they got shafted.
2015 Wisconsin....
I think keeping games under or over the spread and the O/U in general is far more common than the game themselves being fixed
Some Donaghy quotes, for reference:
"If you're fixing a game, you're making calls up against star players to get that star player to the bench so that team is at a major disadvantage."
"I'm not saying the games are fixed, because they are not. But they definitely program and train these referees to go out on the floor, and look for certain things, to put teams at advantages or disadvantages, based on who's up or down in the series."
"Any time that you have a sporting event with a Vegas line to it, there's always going to be somebody involved in organized crime trying to make a dollar off of it."
"I knew there were certain relationships that existed between referees and players, referees and coaches and referees and owners that influence the point spreads in games."
"There's no doubt that there is star treatment. It's discussed in the meetings. Obviously, people don't pay an enormous amount of money to sit in those courtside seats to see players like Kobe, LeBron, Shaq - all the greats - sit on the bench and be in foul trouble."
"Did I go out and make calls in those games that the NBA wanted me and the crew to call? Absolutely. Did it put a team at an advantage and a disadvantage? Absolutely and that's how I was able to win the bets so easily."
"I still see referees officiating based on names on the front and back of jerseys and not based on how the rules are written in the rule book."
"At some point, you're going to see the ability for a fan sitting in a seat to bet, swiping his credit card, whether James Harden is going to score ten 3-pointers or not that night."
"I was a target. There was a guy who took a paint roller extension pole and blasted me in the knee a few times. I had to have surgery to relieve the pain when I got out of prison."
"In the future you're going to be able to go into a 7-Eleven and buy a ticket on a game, and people who don't use gambling as often as others do, like the people who go and buy lottery tickets, there's going to be more opportunity for people to do it. And with people casually gambling throughout the country, it's going to generate a lot of money."
"The FBI and the NBA did a thorough investigation, and they both concluded that I did not fix games in the NBA."
"Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbours, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling, filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult."
Oh that last one's Orwell, not Donaghy.
"If you're fixing a game, you're making calls up against star players to get that star player to the bench so that team is at a major disadvantage."
"I'm not saying the games are fixed, because they are not. But they definitely program and train these referees to go out on the floor, and look for certain things, to put teams at advantages or disadvantages, based on who's up or down in the series."
"Any time that you have a sporting event with a Vegas line to it, there's always going to be somebody involved in organized crime trying to make a dollar off of it."
"I knew there were certain relationships that existed between referees and players, referees and coaches and referees and owners that influence the point spreads in games."
"There's no doubt that there is star treatment. It's discussed in the meetings. Obviously, people don't pay an enormous amount of money to sit in those courtside seats to see players like Kobe, LeBron, Shaq - all the greats - sit on the bench and be in foul trouble."
"Did I go out and make calls in those games that the NBA wanted me and the crew to call? Absolutely. Did it put a team at an advantage and a disadvantage? Absolutely and that's how I was able to win the bets so easily."
"I still see referees officiating based on names on the front and back of jerseys and not based on how the rules are written in the rule book."
"At some point, you're going to see the ability for a fan sitting in a seat to bet, swiping his credit card, whether James Harden is going to score ten 3-pointers or not that night."
"I was a target. There was a guy who took a paint roller extension pole and blasted me in the knee a few times. I had to have surgery to relieve the pain when I got out of prison."
"In the future you're going to be able to go into a 7-Eleven and buy a ticket on a game, and people who don't use gambling as often as others do, like the people who go and buy lottery tickets, there's going to be more opportunity for people to do it. And with people casually gambling throughout the country, it's going to generate a lot of money."
"The FBI and the NBA did a thorough investigation, and they both concluded that I did not fix games in the NBA."
"Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbours, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling, filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult."
Oh that last one's Orwell, not Donaghy.
Stoudemire in Suns Spurs was put into foul trouble in critical games when Suns were rolling. By Donaghy.Some Donaghy quotes, for reference:
"If you're fixing a game, you're making calls up against star players to get that star player to the bench so that team is at a major disadvantage."
"I'm not saying the games are fixed, because they are not. But they definitely program and train these referees to go out on the floor, and look for certain things, to put teams at advantages or disadvantages, based on who's up or down in the series."
"Any time that you have a sporting event with a Vegas line to it, there's always going to be somebody involved in organized crime trying to make a dollar off of it."
"I knew there were certain relationships that existed between referees and players, referees and coaches and referees and owners that influence the point spreads in games."
"There's no doubt that there is star treatment. It's discussed in the meetings. Obviously, people don't pay an enormous amount of money to sit in those courtside seats to see players like Kobe, LeBron, Shaq - all the greats - sit on the bench and be in foul trouble."
"Did I go out and make calls in those games that the NBA wanted me and the crew to call? Absolutely. Did it put a team at an advantage and a disadvantage? Absolutely and that's how I was able to win the bets so easily."
"I still see referees officiating based on names on the front and back of jerseys and not based on how the rules are written in the rule book."
"At some point, you're going to see the ability for a fan sitting in a seat to bet, swiping his credit card, whether James Harden is going to score ten 3-pointers or not that night."
"I was a target. There was a guy who took a paint roller extension pole and blasted me in the knee a few times. I had to have surgery to relieve the pain when I got out of prison."
"In the future you're going to be able to go into a 7-Eleven and buy a ticket on a game, and people who don't use gambling as often as others do, like the people who go and buy lottery tickets, there's going to be more opportunity for people to do it. And with people casually gambling throughout the country, it's going to generate a lot of money."
"The FBI and the NBA did a thorough investigation, and they both concluded that I did not fix games in the NBA."
"Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbours, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling, filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult."
Oh that last one's Orwell, not Donaghy.
Here's my favorite.
ESPN: Report: Dowd says Rose 'probably' bet against team
ESPN: Entries in long-hidden notebook show Pete Rose bet on baseball as player, by William Weinbaum and T.J. Quinn
Weinbaum and Quinn said:
Indy Star (USA Today): Pete Rose's investigator: Never let him back in baseball
Bleacher Report: Pete Rose Killed Mario Soto's Career, by Illya Harrell
Bleacher Report: Pete Rose Killed Mario Soto's Career: Part II—Evidence For Naysayers, by Illya Harrell
Illya Harrell said:
Based on the evidence cited above, I respectfully disagree with anyone who believes that Pete Rose didn't throw at least one game. And one game settles the debate on whether or not he should be reinstated, in my humble opinion.
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Absolutely agree. And you will never convince me that a degenerate gambler never bet against the Reds.
Every time Kansas plays a home game and shoots forty more free throws than the opponent , Or every time Dook is at home in that high school gym and is down by one with the ball and less than a minute on the clock.
Nope. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
It used to be that we would dominate out of conference schedule and then get tough games in conference. I presumed the league was instructing officials to keep games close because they were tired of UK dominating the league and wanted to get other team's fanbases involved.
Then after 2012, it seemed like we quit getting a fair whistle in the NCAA tournament. 2015. 2017 UNC.
2019 doesn't get brought up enough either. That Wofford game, their center should have fouled out with twelve minutes left but the officials just kept letting him foul and get away with it, trying to will them into a win. Then that Elite 8 game against Auburn was a travesty of officiating. I believe they had a 10 minutes stretch without a foul where they mounted their comeback into the game.
Other blatant games are the Isaac Humphries game at A&M and that LSU goaltend when they had Ben Simmons.
We're not watching a competition anymore, we're watching a glorified version of the WWE.
I think it’s kinda the opposite. I think what draws ratings in sports isn’t everyone’s favorite team winning. It’s everyone’s least favorite team losing. You need a Darth Vader.
Cowboys losing causes all the other teams to laugh and mock them. I kinda think that’s us as well. Nobody besides UK fans wants to watch us win but everyone wants to watch us lose.
I think the NFL did it with Brady are now doing it with Mahomes.
Vegas doesn’t lose. The fix is always possible depending on the $Most refs and players are honest (I hope). But in my humble opinion I think that it's an absolute truth that many, many games, at every level from high school to college to the pros, have been rigged. A handful of some of the better-known instances:
I just don't think that it's a common occurrence, especially with modern games since modern games have a lot of eyes of 'em thanks to the internet and the fact that millions own high-def TVs that have the ability to rewind live broadcasts. I have an acquaintance who disagrees, however, and he basically mocked me earlier today for not thinking that the Super Bowl's 100% scripted ("It's 'sports entertainment', that whole spiel) and that everyone on the field is just an actor following a script. I think that's ridiculous. 60+ thousand at the game. 120+ million watching from home, replaying every bad call on those big, crystal-clear screens -- somebody's eventually going to catch something definitive if anything even remotely sus is going on, and the money lost because of it would-be absolutely freaking mind-boggling.
Now an event like a regular-season college basketball game, though, that's a totally different story. There's thousands of D1 games played per season, and most of them don't matter and/or are watched by only a handful of fans, so yeah, I'd say that bad eggs most definitely covertly stink up games for profit from time to time.
How bad do you think it is?
excellent points seriously. Ill throw in Frank Kaminsky 2015. Literally hear Cal yelling at the rooferee every foul he had on Towns and nothing was called. Kaminsky literally should of fouled out in the first half except he ends the game with just 3 fouls. like Frank kaminsky could stand a chance defending towns. I know a few at that game who even confirmed Cal was losing his mind calling every foul out as it happened and refs never cared. kaminsky sits for extended mins with 4 fouls and WI doesnt stand a chance. I mean this is weird bringing up but Cal at umass vs UK lol some weird officiating in that one...
