Question about Intentional Foul

[saxonburgcat]

Last night, I believe it was RJ Davis who wrapped his arms about Bradshaw in an attempt to prevent him from scoring at a critical point of the game. The refs called a common foul. The refs gave us the foul but ruled it was a shot clock violation so the basket was disallowed. That call seemed to be a best case scenario for UNC.

Are intentional fouls no longer called unless it is an F1 or F2? It seems that is a bad rule, if so. Common sense tells me that it should be 2 shots and the ball for wrapping your arms around a player without going for the ball. Thoughts?

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Last night, I believe it was RJ Davis who wrapped his arms about Bradshaw in an attempt to prevent him from scoring at a critical point of the game. The refs called a common foul. The refs gave us the foul but ruled it was a shot clock violation so the basket was disallowed. That call seemed to be a best case scenario for UNC.

Are intentional fouls no longer called unless it is an F1 or F2? It seems that is a bad rule, if so. Common sense tells me that it should be 2 shots and the ball for wrapping your arms around a player without going for the ball. Thoughts?

I had the EXACT question? Has the intentional foul been eliminated?

 

[JPScott]

I thought the referees at times were looking for every and any excuse to keep Carolina in the game. On that play first they tried to disallow the entire play by seeing if the shot clock started late and then gave the benefit of the doubt to Davis on the foul. The play should have at least been an and-one if not an intentional foul on Davis.

 

[Mike-McD]

Last night, I believe it was RJ Davis who wrapped his arms about Bradshaw in an attempt to prevent him from scoring at a critical point of the game. The refs called a common foul. The refs gave us the foul but ruled it was a shot clock violation so the basket was disallowed. That call seemed to be a best case scenario for UNC.

Are intentional fouls no longer called unless it is an F1 or F2? It seems that is a bad rule, if so. Common sense tells me that it should be 2 shots and the ball for wrapping your arms around a player without going for the ball. Thoughts?

The breakaway injury stoppage was best case scenario for UNC also. Interesting how every break seemed to go their way.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

On the Davis “wrap around” that was intentional and happened a split second before the shot clock expired and should have resulted in an intentional foul (2 shots and the ball out of bounds for UK). Bradshaw dd not get the shot off before the shot clock expired thus my summation.
Just another screw job against the Cats.
yawn-its tough being King.

 

[seccats04]

I had the same question when it happened last night. That was an obvious intentional foul.

 

[katwest]

I was watching the Bama vs Creighton game and a Creighton player got hit in the face and laid there on the baseline until the teams went to the other end of the floor and back before the game was stopped. The refs didn’t stop the game at that point, but they did in our game stopping a run out. The kid was ok, but it looks like if you lay there motionless, it’s a good strategy for the team that doesn’t have the ball, like in our game.

 

[storm1507]

First time I've ever seen a review to check to see if the shot clock started on time when it obviously was at least close to being right.

 

[saxonburgcat]

On the Davis “wrap around” that was intentional and happened a split second before the shot clock expired and should have resulted in an intentional foul (2 shots and the ball out of bounds for UK). Bradshaw dd not get the shot off before the shot clock expired thus my summation.
Just another screw job against the Cats.
yawn-its tough being King.

The intentional foul delayed the Bradshaw shot just long enough for the clock to expire. Who knows? If not for the foul, Bradshaw might have been able to get the shot off even sooner. Again, UNC seemed to benefit from the play as Bradshaw only hit one of his FT's.

 

[bthaunert]

I thought the referees at times were looking for every and any excuse to keep Carolina in the game. On that play first they tried to disallow the entire play by seeing if the shot clock started late and then gave the benefit of the doubt to Davis on the foul. The play should have at least been an and-one if not an intentional foul on Davis.

It wouldn’t have been an “and one” because the shot clock expired before Bradshaw released the ball.

 

[JPScott]

It wouldn’t have been an “and one” because the shot clock expired before Bradshaw released the ball.

I went back and looked and you are correct. It was very close though. I still think it should have been a shooting foul rather than a 1 and 1 though. They either needed to call a shooting foul or an intentional hold IMO.

 

[Lempface]

Just as an aside, we should flop and flail on the ground like a fish every time the other team has an opportunity for a fast break. You know, since they are gonna stop the play for player safety when the downed player is on the opposite end of the court where the play is happening... Man these refs were atrocious.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I was watching the Bama vs Creighton game and a Creighton player got hit in the face and laid there on the baseline until the teams went to the other end of the floor and back before the game was stopped. The refs didn’t stop the game at that point, but they did in our game stopping a run out. The kid was ok, but it looks like if you lay there motionless, it’s a good strategy for the team that doesn’t have the ball, like in our game.

I was watching with a UNC friend.. and he agreed how crazy it was that they'd stop the play just because UNC had a guy down and we had a 5 on 4 break. His words were "I've seen this happen dozens of times in college and the NBA, and I've never seen them stop play just because the other team gets the advantage"

Just like last year when they called this dhit against us, it 100% had a feel of "kentucky has a clear advantage, let's blow the whistle to give the other team a chance".

 

[UKBB4Ever]

I’m waiting for the official of the game.

But it can’t be a shooting foul if it was after the clock by rule. So if they called the foul on the shot that was improper as there was no shot. By rule.

So therefore no foul.

But there was an intentional foul. That’s the proper call.

That’s how I see it.

That’s why I want to see what the official ruling is after the review by the front office.

 

[EliteBlue]

On the Davis “wrap around” that was intentional and happened a split second before the shot clock expired and should have resulted in an intentional foul (2 shots and the ball out of bounds for UK). Bradshaw dd not get the shot off before the shot clock expired thus my summation.
Just another screw job against the Cats.
yawn-its tough being King.

Him getting the shot off doesn’t matter.

It was either ruled on the floor (which is what they went with although in real time is wasn’t called until he was going into the shot).

Or it was a foul as he’s attempting to jump to shoot. Once the foul was called, the shot clock doesn’t matter bc the clock is blown dead so the shot is continuation of the play stopped at that point in time.

 

[Ukheadhunter]

I went back and looked and you are correct. It was very close though. I still think it should have been a shooting foul rather than a 1 and 1 though. They either needed to call a shooting foul or an intentional hold IMO.

If it were a shooting foul wouldn’t the bucket have to count? I believe it was the correct call.

 

[bigbluelou]

Just as an aside, we should flop and flail on the ground like a fish every time the other team has an opportunity for a fast break. You know, since they are gonna stop the play for player safety when the downed player is on the opposite end of the court where the play is happening... Man these refs were atrocious.

Wouldn't work for us. If our guy went down, not only would the play continue indefinitely, the refs would take turns kicking or stepping on our injured player as they passed by.

 

[CincinnatiWildcat]

First time I've ever seen a review to check to see if the shot clock started on time when it obviously was at least close to being right.

The announcers being to dumb to realize there could be anywhere between 3 and 3.9 seconds on the shot clock and that is why it isnt going to start exactly with the game clock was very frustrating for me.

 

[JPScott]

If it were a shooting foul wouldn’t the bucket have to count? I believe it was the correct call.

Not if he didn't release the ball prior to the shot clock going off. He just needs to be in the act of shooting, which I believe he was.

For those stating that a valid shot needs to be made before a shooting foul can be called, there are plenty of examples where a player in the shooting motion is fouled so hard that he literally can't get the ball up toward the basket, and those are regularly called shooting fouls just because everyone knows the intent and motion is to shoot.

The breakaway foul by the UNC player on Rob Dillingham is one such example where Dillingham was fouled in the act of shooting without him getting a legitimate shot at the goal off.

 

[Ajax10]

I believe they ruled the shot clock expired before the shot was released, thus the shot didn’t count. In my view that’s the wrong interpretation. Once the foul is called and the whistle is blown the shot clock should not have been a factor. The foul was clearly before the shot clock expired. Shot should have counted and we should have gotten a free throw.

 

[TheDude73]

I believe they ruled the shot clock expired before the shot was released, thus the shot didn’t count. In my view that’s the wrong interpretation. Once the foul is called and the whistle is blown the shot clock should not have been a factor. The foul was clearly before the shot clock expired. Shot should have counted and we should have gotten a free throw.

Exactly. They totally contradicted themselves by saying "yes, he was fouled before the shot clock expired, but the shot didn't count because the shot clock expired". Both things cannot be true at the same time.

 

[BigBlueDiehard]

I believe they ruled the shot clock expired before the shot was released, thus the shot didn’t count. In my view that’s the wrong interpretation. Once the foul is called and the whistle is blown the shot clock should not have been a factor. The foul was clearly before the shot clock expired. Shot should have counted and we should have gotten a free throw.

I hadn't really thought about it that way, but I think you're right. The game clock and the shot clock should stop on the whistle whether early or late in the shot clock and then the offensive palyer gets continuation.

 

[saxonburgcat]

It wouldn’t have been an “and one” because the shot clock expired before Bradshaw released the ball.

That may be the rule but, as I said, Davis impeded the shot and prevented the ball from being released sooner. UNC gets rewarded by getting a common foul, disallowed basket and no intentional foul.

I agree with a previous poster that once the foul is called, the shot clock should not be a factor. Imagine this happening on the last play of the game. A player goes up for a 3, the defense grabs him and pulls him down but he manages to hit the shot but it is ruled to be no good since it was on his fingertips as time expired. That would sure create some controversy!!!

 

[bthaunert]

That may be the rule but, as I said, Davis impeded the shot and prevented the ball from being released sooner. UNC gets rewarded by getting a common foul, disallowed basket and no intentional foul.

I agree with a previous poster that once the foul is called, the shot clock should not be a factor. Imagine this happening on the last play of the game. A player goes up for a 3, the defense grabs him and pulls him down but he manages to hit the shot but it is ruled to be no good since it was on his fingertips as time expired. That would sure create some controversy!!!

I did see the previous poster put that and I agree with you and him. In this scenario it wouldn’t have mattered bc they called the foul on the floor prior to the shot.