Manley

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by trungula:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
2nd best OL in IND behind a 4* Ole Miss commit is equal to or greater than the rivals rated best OL in KY...I think the Trinity kid is better than Manley, but I am no evaluator.

Btw Trungula, you have to know that Rivals.com does not have a recruiting analyst that covers the Midwest-ish region (Including Indiana),that Is why I take the 24/7 analysts opinion of Toth in this scenario.

OK, so here's the thing: If you take the 24/7 analysts' opinion, then you would also believe that Manley is the better prospect than Toth. Manley's rating according to 24/7 is 85, and Toth's rating is 82. So, no, being the 2nd best OL in Indiana does not make you greater to or equal to the best lineman in Kentucky, even according to the source that was touting Toth the most. They are just trying to sell subscriptions, and people like Drummond are supposed to make you feel good about our commitments, even when they know that there are better options out there.

I havent checked the 24/7 rankings to see if they were updated or not. The guy who was talking about Toth wasnt Drummond or any UK guy. I was talking about what he said, not necessarily rankings, I have never looked at Manleys or any other OL rankings..just looked at offers/expert opinion/camped or not etc.

You could be right, Manley may turn out to be better or be better right now. But I believe he was lower on the board than UKs commits after things shook out after camps(and Manleys handling of his own recruitment).
This post was edited on 7/22 5:24 PM by CatsFanGG24

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
I havent checked the 24/7 rankings to see if they were updated or not. The guy who was talking about Toth wasnt Drummond or any UK guy. I was talking about what he said, not necessarily rankings, I have never looked at Manleys or any other OL rankings..just looked at offers/expert opinion/camped or not etc.

You could be right, Manley may turn out to be better or be better right now. But I believe he was lower on the board than UKs commits after things shook out after camps(and Manleys handling of his own recruitment).
This post was edited on 7/22 5:24 PM by CatsFanGG24

Offers? Toth did not even have an offer from Indiana, one of the worst football schools in FBS. It should not be UK's goal to take prospects from the state of Indiana who are ignored by Purdue and IU.

 

[PrinceUK21]

That was not his argument go back an read it again. This time without any hate or pre-misconceptions. See if you can do it. One word at a time.

 

[PrinceUK21]

trungula, one question for you.

Should UK coaches make evaluations on their own or should they recruit based off of rankings from a message board?

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by trungula:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
I havent checked the 24/7 rankings to see if they were updated or not. The guy who was talking about Toth wasnt Drummond or any UK guy. I was talking about what he said, not necessarily rankings, I have never looked at Manleys or any other OL rankings..just looked at offers/expert opinion/camped or not etc.

You could be right, Manley may turn out to be better or be better right now. But I believe he was lower on the board than UKs commits after things shook out after camps(and Manleys handling of his own recruitment).

This post was edited on 7/22 5:24 PM by CatsFanGG24

Offers? Toth did not even have an offer from Indiana, one of the worst football schools in FBS. It should not be UK's goal to take prospects from the state of Indiana who are ignored by Purdue and IU.

Now if you trust Manley that he had a Vandy offer or was about to get one then you have to trust Toth who said a Purdue offer was coming if he held off his commitment to UK.

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
Now if you trust Manley that he had a Vandy offer or was about to get one then you have to trust Toth who said a Purdue offer was coming if he held off his commitment to UK.

What was the hold up on Purdue's end? If Purdue knows that they want to make an unconditional offer to a kid, then why were they waiting? All it takes is a phone call, so that does not make much sense.

The lack of interest from IU tells the real story. I'm sure that we will do fine in the SEC with Ball State's players.

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by PrinceUK21:
Should UK coaches make evaluations on their own or should they recruit based off of rankings from a message board?

The year-to-year results never really change based on their "own evaluations", so I do not care what they do as long as they bring in the best that they can get. When they took some of our other committed linemen over Manley, then they failed to do that.

 

[PrinceUK21]

^^^^Right there you are saying that we should trust the message board rating sytem over our coaches. You have never seen any of OL commitments play, but you don't have to because you trust a message board instead. I don't have to post anymore on the subject, but thanks for answering my question.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by trungula:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
Now if you trust Manley that he had a Vandy offer or was about to get one then you have to trust Toth who said a Purdue offer was coming if he held off his commitment to UK.

What was the hold up on Purdue's end? If Purdue knows that they want to make an unconditional offer to a kid, then why were they waiting? All it takes is a phone call, so that does not make much sense.

The lack of interest from IU tells the real story. I'm sure that we will do fine in the SEC with Ball State's players.

Glenn Faulkner was a 4*. Do you have a problem with him?

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by PrinceUK21:
^^^^Right there you are saying that we should trust the message board rating sytem over our coaches. You have never seen any of OL commitments play, but you don't have to because you trust a message board instead. I don't have to post anymore on the subject, but thanks for answering my question.

Considering that the recruiting service rating system is typically based on the work of coaching staffs around the country, then it does have credibility. I trust the coaching staffs of winning programs because they are better evaluators of talent and they recruit nationwide, so selective offering will separate the tiers of talent. The lack of an offer from certain programs, and in the case of Toth, the regional programs in Indiana, provide a great deal of insight. It is not just one website, either, it is many that put Manley higher than our other recruits. So, multiple sources whose jobs are to evaluate football recruits agree with me, including many different coaching staffs outside UK.

How many OL commitments have you seen play? You have never seen any of them in person, but you don't have to because you trust an incompetent coaching staff that has never accomplished much more than mediocrity on the field.

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Originally posted by trungula:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
Now if you trust Manley that he had a Vandy offer or was about to get one then you have to trust Toth who said a Purdue offer was coming if he held off his commitment to UK.

What was the hold up on Purdue's end? If Purdue knows that they want to make an unconditional offer to a kid, then why were they waiting? All it takes is a phone call, so that does not make much sense.

The lack of interest from IU tells the real story. I'm sure that we will do fine in the SEC with Ball State's players.

Glenn Faulkner was a 4*. Do you have a problem with him?

Faulkner was an Army All-American, so I obviously do not have a problem with him. Let me know when Toth or any of our other line recruits get that call, and I might change my mind due to "new education" like you did from a weeks ago.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

^ Glenn Faulkner is listed in the database with less offers than Toth...ohhhh noooooo!

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
^ Glenn Faulkner is listed in the database with less offers than Toth...ohhhh noooooo!

Faulkner has twice as many stars as Toth, so it is okay. Once again, let me know when he is invited to San Antonio.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

But he wasnt offered by the area schools...he must not be any good...

Just be real, you like arguing and thats the reason this is still going on. You dont know if Manley is better than Toth, you are going by the recruiting services. Thats fine.

Others will believe the staff knows what they are doing and can evaluate prospects (especially OL) better than Joe Blow who covers a certain area for rivals.com or whatever.

Case closed

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
But he wasnt offered by the area schools...he must not be any good...

Just be real, you like arguing and thats the reason this is still going on. You dont know if Manley is better than Toth, you are going by the recruiting services. Thats fine.

Others will believe the staff knows what they are doing and can evaluate prospects (especially OL) better than Joe Blow who covers a certain area for rivals.com or whatever.

Case closed

If I am the one who likes to argue, then why do you keep responding to me and deflecting my questions?

Faulkner probably was offered by more schools when he started receiving national recognition, but he had no obligation to report them. Once again, let me know when any of our linemen get that recognition, and I will change my stance like you did about Manley from 3 weeks ago.

You can be real, as well. Nobody on this board knows much about the recruits that we are after until after they read a short article from Joe Blow or look at their star rating or ranking. Then, you just always use the same blanket statement about "trusting the staff". Sorry, they have not done anything to earn my full trust given the results on the field.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Actually a lot of people have seen certain guys play because they are from the areas. You just have to find where to read it. But its all good. Go Manley, guess youll have to root for the cards now. Too bad for the UK fanbase

 

[jauk11]

So, the coaches haven't done anything to earn your trust? Wonder what they would have to do, and I wonder if they care in the slightest. Joker put several very much overlooked players in position to make the NFL as receivers, including Cobb and Matthews having a chance.

Three star Warford is projected as a possible 1st round pick, and Hines could very well have a good chance. The OL that some say could be the best in UK history is made up of recruits that were evenly divided among two and three stars, BEFORE two of the three stars, Ulinski and Odumwonyi dropped out, but Summers has done nothing to earn your trust?

It figures.

I know you are a legend in your own mind, but I think I will trust our staff to make the decisions on who they accept commitments from. And yes, it does change daily.

 

[trungula]

For every "under the radar" success story there are many more failures.

What is the difference between Warford/Hines and Manley? They were in-state linemen that we wanted and had other FBS offers. Our other current line recruits are the ones who do not belong in comparisons to people like Warford/Hines.

 

[jauk11]

I guess when you are a legend in your own mind you can know more about the recruits than the coaches that saw them in person. Did you take any videos when you had them work out for you, maybe you would like to share.

What kind of offers did Smith, a two star up for post season honors as a Junior, or Burden, a 5.2 two star, who didn't get a redshirt and had to waste two years on the DL to help the team, have out of high school? Some think Burden will be outstanding this year. Mitchell and Eatmon are two stars that are going to be very good for us, great size. Of the other two three stars we have, Murphy, is just now starting as a redshirt Senior, and Simpson is still a backup. And Lanefski has started a lot, between injuries.

Geez, give it up.

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by jauk11:
I guess when you are a legend in your own mind you can know more about the recruits than the coaches that saw them in person. Did you take any videos when you had them work out for you, maybe you would like to share.

What kind of offers did Smith, a two star up for post season honors as a Junior, or Burden, a 5.2 two star, who didn't get a redshirt and had to waste two years on the DL to help the team, have out of high school? Some think Burden will be outstanding this year. Mitchell and Eatmon are two stars that are going to be very good for us, great size. Of the other two three stars we have, Murphy, is just now starting as a redshirt Senior, and Simpson is still a backup. And Lanefski has started a lot, between injuries.

Geez, give it up.

Smith was an in-state player with a connection to an elite program. Because I am in support of the in-state players, and because having connections to St. X has additional value, then he is fine with me. It is the coaching staff's fault that they wasted him for two years on the DL. "Some think..."...well, that's helpful, thanks.

You act like the line is the best that it could possibly be. It is not, and it will not be with this same old level of recruiting.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

^There is a great Toth article on the front page. Be sure to avoid!

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
^There is a great Toth article on the front page. Be sure to avoid!

What would his coach say about Manley if they were on the same team? Is his high school coach expected to run him down or to be supportive?

 

[CatsFanGG24]

I guess you didnt read it? Too bad dude, youre missing out.

 

[trungula]

I am sure that a high school coach is the most unbiased person to interview about one his football players.

This post was edited on 7/25 12:10 AM by trungula

 

[CatsFanGG24]

I bet less than a quarter of the article speaks about how the coach feels his player is as a prospect. The rest is about the recruitment, the camp circuit, the schools who were expected to offer, why he picked UK when he did, what position he projects to play this year and beyond,his size now and possible college size etc...

You really hate UK football dont you?lol

 

[trungula]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
I bet less than a quarter of the article speaks about how the coach feels his player is as a prospect. The rest is about the recruitment, the camp circuit, the schools who were expected to offer, why he picked UK when he did, what position he projects to play this year and beyond,his size now and possible college size etc...

You really hate UK football dont you?lol

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Recruiting has been getting better at a consistent rate and we have been consistently closing the gap on the field against other SEC teams. We havent gotten over the hump yet, but we have basically gotten rid of the 20-50 point losses. Its good that we are striving for more, but we also have to remember where we have come from.

Back to the article...It really is a good read and something a normal fan would get excited about. Tons of quality info. But I dont think you will find the info you are looking for until football season gets here.

 

[trungula]

Rivals has also been consistently inflating their star rankings over the past couple of years. I believe that most normal fans get excited by the visual of the number of stars a player has over an article, which is one reason why they have been inflating the numbers.

Our line has been built around in-state prospects just like Manley. Weighing him against some of the other commits just appears to be a step back, but there is no way of knowing unless we have a crystal ball that sees about 5 years in the future. However, losing the best in-state lineman, who is a quality player with other good offers, to your rival because you took others prematurely is bad PR. Many more people in addition to me are displeased whether they want to comment or not.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by trungula:
there is no way of knowing unless we have a crystal ball that sees about 5 years in the future.

Agreed.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

On July 4th, Manley contacted the UK coaches advising them that he had decided on a commitment. On the 5th it was rumored on another site that UK had pulled his offer(which Manley disputes). On the 6th, UK got a verbal from Toth. Now, whether you believe the kid told UK that he was going to UofL and they then persued Toth or you believe that UK just decided that Manley all of a sudden wasnt good enough so UK pulled his offer,is irrelevant. The kid is going to UofL and thats that. IMO, he would have fit UKs offensive system alot better than UofLs spread system but oh well. Best of luck to him.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Joe Manley update
by Aaron on Jul.07, 2011, under News

I caught up with Joe Manley yesterday and he informed me that he spoke to UK two days ago(July4). He claims his offer has not been “pulled.” Manley did not give me any indication of which schools he was considering. He did inform me his announcement was planned and ready to go. He didn’t tell me, but I’m guessing he has notified the school and his announcement will make everything official next week.



Few recruiting nuggets
by Aaron on Jul.10, 2011, under News

Joe Manley (2012-OL) is supposed to announce this week. I am trying to nail down which day. He supposed to be choosing between UK, UL, Illinois and Vandy. I know Manley told me UK didn’t pull his offer, but I have talked to several people who suggest that isn’t the case. I wish Manley luck and I’m sure he is ready make a decision.

Joe Manley update
by Aaron on Jul.14, 2011, under News

Joe Manley informed me recently he would be making his decision today. Well, he did. Joe informed me he taped his commitment and it will air locally on Saturday (11 am) in Bowling Green on the “Sports Connection.” I have talked to several people and I get zero vibes suggesting Manley picked UK. He recently attended camp at Vandy and I wouldn’t be shocked if the ‘Dores were trying to make a late run. However, Joe has always liked the staff at Louisville. My gut tells me he will be a Card. We wish him the best.

Your timeline is a little speculative. Aaron speculated he may have informed the staff. He also specualated when the kid called to talk, they said buddy you dont have a committable offer at this point anymore.


The very first rumors came from this site BTW. UK had been on Toth way before the 6th and he was a unamimous offer from the staff after UK camp. He committed because of the Watson,Bailey, Myers commitments..didnt want his ride to get taken.

I dont think the Manley offer was pulled because he "wasnt good enough"...I think it was pulled because he wasnt good enough to be yanking their chain and dragging his feet like he was. Maybe Manley never wanted UK anyway...doubtful but possible that they pulled the offer bc he was going elsewhere...But I like Toth, just watched a clip of him..he is definitely a solid prospect.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

So you too read the part about his HS coach rumored to be pushing him towards Louisville? Thats exactly where I read it-mixed in with all that time line mess from another site. Probably a rumor but If so WOW! like I said, i think manley could have been special with some help from UKs coaches but oh well, his loss.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

I have read that in other places yes. His coaches are big WKU,UL fans..and Wallace is probably indifferent considering his son 1st picked Colorado, then after a transfer to UK, Ryan has already transferred out.

I heard UK coaches were fed up with how Manley was handling the whole deal. I think his coaches told him to wait for bigger offers..UK was tired of the wait..joe didnt get higher offers and was left to UL or WKU. Just what I heard though. Obviously I wanted him when the staff did because I root for in-state guys, but after learning more I lost a lot of the "want" to get him in our class.

 

[Oldtrainer]

Our very good guard Stuart Hines is from Bowling Green (pretty sure).
Is Manley from the same high school? Anyway,I wish Manley well.
Saw video on Jon Toth, lot to like!!

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:
I have read that in other places yes. His coaches are big WKU,UL fans..and Wallace is probably indifferent considering his son 1st picked Colorado, then after a transfer to UK, Ryan has already transferred out.

I heard UK coaches were fed up with how Manley was handling the whole deal. I think his coaches told him to wait for bigger offers..UK was tired of the wait..joe didnt get higher offers and was left to UL or WKU. Just what I heard though. Obviously I wanted him when the staff did because I root for in-state guys, but after learning more I lost a lot of the "want" to get him in our class.

no,no,no...Im talking about Ryan Wallace leaving the team because he felt like the staff didnt follow through with their promise and his dad (Kevin Wallace, the coach of Manley @BGHS) "allegedly" pushing Manley towards UofL because of the way his son was done by UK. The rumor I read on the same site was that Wallace transfered to UK with the promise of walking on and having the shot to earn a scholly at TE but wasnt good enough so they moved him to O-line and he wasnt good enough there either so he didnt get a scholly and so he left the team disgruntled(there was some debate as to how/when/what was actually promised)

Im not saying that any of this is FACT but I did read this back before the whole "Manley debate" started and it sounded legit enough to convince me that Manley was probably a hard UofL lean and very easily could have told the UK staff that in his conversation with them on the 4th. To me at least, that scenerio makes more sense than the UK staff pulling his offer because they cant wait a few days for the kid to decide or because they ironically all of a sudden think he isnt good enough. JMO

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Well that was always assumed that there would be hard feelings from Wallace too. The other assistants there are not UK people at all. Wallace isnt a UK person either, his son picked Colorado out of HS so he is lucky he got a shot at UK.

Manley was probably pushed away from UK by his coaches though, I wouldnt doubt it.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

TRUNGULA!!!!


Manley dropped to a 2* on TOS...Toth moved up to the #61 OT...

What say you?

 

[trungula]

If you like Scout's rankings so much, then maybe you should be there instead of here on Rivals where you have a subscription?

Rivals has Manley as a 3* and Toth is still a 2*? What say you? That might answer your own question.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Scouts rankings are more updated..updated Friday!

What say you?

 

[trungula]

Then maybe you should post there instead of here? Manley is still rated higher than some of the other linemen that we have committed even after the recent update. The point still applies even with different examples.