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Is Taking a Player's Scholarship Ethical?

btw Jauk......in the last 3 years Kentucky has taken 77 kids while Tennessee has taken 75.

Already over signed more by 2 kids.

Come January that number will be larger for Kentucky by 6 or 7.

I'm sure you will deflect rather than just owning it.
 
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UT just banged another, TE Kyle Oliver. They're well into double figures the number Jones has run off since the end of the season.
 
If Tenn stays at or below 85, why does it matter how many they take? In jones first year we started the season with 67 scholarship players, now he's making that up.

Tenn hasn't stayed below 85, that is why so many of the 14 class have moved on, to get to 85 and a couple of the 15 class has moved on. Its not illegal, Bama did the same thing when Saban got there. I have never claimed Richt is a great coach, he has made his share of mistakes. But he has also won a lot of games. Butch is probably a pretty good coach, but as the face of the program he probably needs to cut back on the energy drinks and come across a little calmer but that's just me. I don't think much of your defensive staff, Janzek and Willie were both bad during their time at UGA, Richt was forced to fire Willie or be canned alone with him. I would think UT faced enough of their defenses to know what kind of defenses we put on the field when Willie and JJ were there.

For this season, I think UK is better at WR, UT's qb will be a better runner, but as a passer he is no better than Hutson Mason was and can't beat teams with his arm. I think UGA is better at OL, RB and TE. One the other side of the ball, DL will be fairly equal, UGA LB will be a good bit better, UT DB will be a little better, but not by as much as you think. You think UT wins, I think we win because our LB are fast enough to track Dobbs down and turn his big scrambles into sacks, or short gains. UT has edge in putting game, UGA has edge in kicking game
 
UT just banged another, TE Kyle Oliver. They're well into double figures the number Jones has run off since the end of the season.

yes.......he was smoking pot and was booted before he made it to camp.

How is that math on what looks to be about 100 players in 4 years for UK?

104 recruits for Tennessee

99 recruits for Kentucky.

After this recruiting cycle the numbers may well be reversed.
 
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Tenn hasn't stayed below 85, that is why so many of the 14 class have moved on, to get to 85 and a couple of the 15 class has moved on. Its not illegal, Bama did the same thing when Saban got there. I have never claimed Richt is a great coach, he has made his share of mistakes. But he has also won a lot of games. Butch is probably a pretty good coach, but as the face of the program he probably needs to cut back on the energy drinks and come across a little calmer but that's just me. I don't think much of your defensive staff, Janzek and Willie were both bad during their time at UGA, Richt was forced to fire Willie or be canned alone with him. I would think UT faced enough of their defenses to know what kind of defenses we put on the field when Willie and JJ were there.

For this season, I think UK is better at WR, UT's qb will be a better runner, but as a passer he is no better than Hutson Mason was and can't beat teams with his arm. I think UGA is better at OL, RB and TE. One the other side of the ball, DL will be fairly equal, UGA LB will be a good bit better, UT DB will be a little better, but not by as much as you think. You think UT wins, I think we win because our LB are fast enough to track Dobbs down and turn his big scrambles into sacks, or short gains. UT has edge in putting game, UGA has edge in kicking game


hey granny.........as someone already posted we had 67 scholly players when Butch took over. You used the less than 85 players line in this thread already.

Tennessee 104 recruits in last 4 years
uga 102 recruits in last 4 years

In your world the math makes a big, big difference.

Hypocrite.
 
yes.......he was smoking pot and was booted before he made it to camp.

How is that math on what looks to be about 100 players in 4 years for UK?

I'm talking about Jones running off double figures since season's end not "100 players in 4 years" nonsense.

As for Oliver....shoved out the door for weed but it's OK for Hurd to be found passed out in a parking garage at 3AM. All about talent vs potential.
 
Granny dog used the justification for Richt's over signing as getting up to 85.

Same for Tennessee but somehow he sees it as different.

Richt has been over signing for years but from grumpy granny's high horse it is different

#hypocrite

You are damn clueless man, just damn clueless, like talking to a fence post. UGA has been at least 7 under 85 the entire time Richt has been in Athens until the last 2 years, we finally got to 85 last Feb with that signing class and 2 didn't get in, so we were at 83. We played Bama with 67 scholarshipped players in 2010 and 10 of those were redshirting, 2 were long snappers, 2 kickers and a punter. All of that because he would not sign the max number we could sign, always saving 2-3 spots for signing day decisions who went elsewhere without a plan B guy. Yes, it pissed me off and it was a poor way to run the program, but he refused to push that 85 number and once we got close he stopped recruiting. An example is the Jack kid at UCLA begged to make an official the weekend before signing day, would have signed with us too, but Richt told him no thx. Say anything about his coaching you want and I can understand your arguement, but to say he oversigned by having more than 85 kids signed makes you just ignorant, because that is a lie, he refused to push that number. Yes we signed 33 one year had 13 January enrollees, because we were so far under the 85 limit. Which meant we only admitted 20 for that year, which allowed us to take 30 the following year if 5 were January enrollees all the while we were still under the 85 limit. This year we are at 85, the qb transfer from Virginia was the 85th guy, first time in Richt's 15 years we have been. I know talking math and numbers may be over your head and you no doubt have no understanding how the system is suppose to actually work, but what can someone expect from a child, if you aren't a child, stop acting like one.
 
You are damn clueless man, just damn clueless, like talking to a fence post. UGA has been at least 7 under 85 the entire time Richt has been in Athens until the last 2 years, we finally got to 85 last Feb with that signing class and 2 didn't get in, so we were at 83. We played Bama with 67 scholarshipped players in 2010 and 10 of those were redshirting, 2 were long snappers, 2 kickers and a punter. All of that because he would not sign the max number we could sign, always saving 2-3 spots for signing day decisions who went elsewhere without a plan B guy. Yes, it pissed me off and it was a poor way to run the program, but he refused to push that 85 number and once we got close he stopped recruiting. An example is the Jack kid at UCLA begged to make an official the weekend before signing day, would have signed with us too, but Richt told him no thx. Say anything about his coaching you want and I can understand your arguement, but to say he oversigned by having more than 85 kids signed makes you just ignorant, because that is a lie, he refused to push that number. Yes we signed 33 one year had 13 January enrollees, because we were so far under the 85 limit. Which meant we only admitted 20 for that year, which allowed us to take 30 the following year if 5 were January enrollees all the while we were still under the 85 limit. This year we are at 85, the qb transfer from Virginia was the 85th guy, first time in Richt's 15 years we have been. I know talking math and numbers may be over your head and you no doubt have no understanding how the system is suppose to actually work, but what can someone expect from a child, if you aren't a child, stop acting like one.


So full of fail I don't know where to start.

You signed 102 kids in last 4 years. How does 85 = 102 granny?

We were at 67 3 years ago...........but that is different from your 67?

Recruiting is a dirty business..........even for saint mark.
 
I'm talking about Jones running off double figures since season's end not "100 players in 4 years" nonsense.

As for Oliver....shoved out the door for weed but it's OK for Hurd to be found passed out in a parking garage at 3AM. All about talent vs potential.


Obviously Stoops/Joker have run off players too........or is that different.

85 players is 85 players........you have signed virtually the same number as us.
 
You are damn clueless man, just damn clueless, like talking to a fence post. UGA has been at least 7 under 85 the entire time Richt has been in Athens until the last 2 years, we finally got to 85 last Feb with that signing class and 2 didn't get in, so we were at 83. We played Bama with 67 scholarshipped players in 2010 and 10 of those were redshirting, 2 were long snappers, 2 kickers and a punter. All of that because he would not sign the max number we could sign, always saving 2-3 spots for signing day decisions who went elsewhere without a plan B guy. Yes, it pissed me off and it was a poor way to run the program, but he refused to push that 85 number and once we got close he stopped recruiting. An example is the Jack kid at UCLA begged to make an official the weekend before signing day, would have signed with us too, but Richt told him no thx. Say anything about his coaching you want and I can understand your arguement, but to say he oversigned by having more than 85 kids signed makes you just ignorant, because that is a lie, he refused to push that number. Yes we signed 33 one year had 13 January enrollees, because we were so far under the 85 limit. Which meant we only admitted 20 for that year, which allowed us to take 30 the following year if 5 were January enrollees all the while we were still under the 85 limit. This year we are at 85, the qb transfer from Virginia was the 85th guy, first time in Richt's 15 years we have been. I know talking math and numbers may be over your head and you no doubt have no understanding how the system is suppose to actually work, but what can someone expect from a child, if you aren't a child, stop acting like one.

Might as well give it up Grumpy, he isn't as dumb as a fence post, he is dumber. He is arguing apples and oranges, commits are easy to place when you run off players.

Come back when TU signs less than 20 commits this year, LOL.
 
So full of fail I don't know where to start.

You signed 102 kids in last 4 years. How does 85 = 102 granny?

We were at 67 3 years ago...........but that is different from your 67?

Recruiting is a dirty business..........even for saint mark.

I never said it was different, you did. I will type slow, maybe you can comprehend, the difference is UT has had what 14 players leave the program since the 14 signing class, a class signed by the current staff not leftovers from the previous staff. And are currently sweating at least one getting in out of the 15 class, I have no idea how many UT currently has, don't care, I know the defense won't improve much as long as you keep your current defensive staff, there is also a fired conditioning coordinator who is looking for a job, UT interested? The ole brick layer better start begging the ranking services to boost UT's class again. Just curious, where do those class rank now that all those kids are no longer in the program, top 20?
 
grumpy granny....I could care less where they rank. Butch is building a great team and it will continue to take more time.

Whether they leave in a couple of years or over 4 the result is the same. Both teams are only allowed 85 players. Both teams have recruited over 100 players in last 4 years. Doesn't it stand to reason that both have cut near same amount o players loose? Stands to reason both have over signed.

You are the one that brought up having less than full strength of 85. When that argument hit the rocks you deflected to some other nonsense.

Much like you, your high horse is a jackass
 
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Might as well give it up Grumpy, he isn't as dumb as a fence post, he is dumber. He is arguing apples and oranges, commits are easy to place when you run off players.

Come back when TU signs less than 20 commits this year, LOL.


Math escapes you. I get it.

Kentucky is only allowed 85 yet they have signed 99 in last 4 years.

Tennessee is only allowed 85 yet they have signed 104 in last 4 years. (Actually 102 since the 2 blue shirts count towards 2016)

Both have similar attrition

btw...both teams are following the rules.
 
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Math escapes you. I get it.

Kentucky is only allowed 85 yet they have signed 99 in last 4 years.

Tennessee is only allowed 85 yet they have signed 104 in last 4 years. (Actually 102 since the 2 blue shirts count towards 2016)

Both have similar attrition

btw...both teams are following the rules.

Wrong, attrition is NOT similar. I'm talking about the period of time since the END of the 2014 season, not 4 years ago or whatever. UK has lost one guy I can immediately can think of. Granted, could be a couple of more. Jones has banged a good 10+, I've actually lost count. Latest was last week. He's shoving guys out the door right and left. UK certainly has not lost 10 or 12 or 15 or how ever many Jones has run off.
 
Wrong, attrition is NOT similar. I'm talking about the period of time since the END of the 2014 season, not 4 years ago or whatever. UK has lost one guy I can immediately can think of. Granted, could be a couple of more. Jones has banged a good 10+, I've actually lost count. Latest was last week. He's shoving guys out the door right and left. UK certainly has not lost 10 or 12 or 15 or how ever many Jones has run off.

Why are you concerned if it is within the rules? Some left of their own accord because they did t get playing time or were homesick. A couple of recent kids left last week because the rules weren't followed.

You take basketball players that you know will only be at the school 1 full semester...maybe 2. Is that ethical or do you just bring them in to school to win and what they can bring to the court?

.....and it is similar if you measure over the last 4 year, the cycle of classes from freshman to senior.

It appears Stoops has banged out his share. Simple math says so.
 
I'm talking about Jones running off double figures since season's end not "100 players in 4 years" nonsense.

As for Oliver....shoved out the door for weed but it's OK for Hurd to be found passed out in a parking garage at 3AM. All about talent vs potential.
Jesus man.... How many times do you have to be told that Hurd wasn't passed out in a car. He was in his dorm and the police called him to tell him they pulled a car over that was registered in his name and the driver was intoxicated. Hurd walked to his car and picked it up the officer smelt alcohol on him and gave his a citation for underage consumption but keep making this story up every time you talk about it. Kyle Oliver was kicked off for multiple issues with weed. If you're gonna try and make Tennessee look bad than that's fine but at least know what you're talking about.
 
I know I have shared this before, but we somehow always get on attrition even when we didn't start out there. At least this time it started with attrition then went to oversigning and now we have come full circle. The following spreadsheet shows the attrition rate for every class since 2002. Last updated in February so there have been a few changes. Most classes seem to lose between 10-50%. Tennessee saw the most attrition from Lane Kiffin's single recruiting class 2009. Kentucky saw the most attrition from Joker Phillips' final recruiting class.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dPjOctLHmlJ8__ub8ZqwTVz9DRRnCINjNZqjUmfm1s0/mobilebasic
 
I'm talking about Jones running off double figures since season's end not "100 players in 4 years" nonsense.

As for Oliver....shoved out the door for weed but it's OK for Hurd to be found passed out in a parking garage at 3AM. All about talent vs potential.

"
The Tennessean first reported that Hurd, and another UT student, were “arrested by citation” on Dec. 3 after a UT police officer identified an unconscious male in a vehicle in a university dorm garage. The Tennessean reported that the initial police report didn’t identify the unconscious male.

A source close to the situation told RockyTopInsider.com that Hurd was not the unconscious individual, and in fact, Hurd was not even on the scene, but was contacted during an investigation involving his vehicle. An additional source clarified that the police sought Hurd out at his residency.

When the officer encountered Hurd, he asked him if he had been drinking and Hurd voluntarily responded that he had. At that point Hurd, who is 18, was issued a misdemeanor citation for underage drinking, but was not handcuffed or taken into custody."


The unconscious individual was transported to the hospital for precautionary reasons. Neither Hurd nor the unconscious individual ever drove the vehicle while drinking.

The source called it a “non-issue” for Hurd that has already been addressed with internal discipline by the coaching staff. Hurd, who led Tennessee with 777 yards rushing as a true freshman, is not in any danger of missing any of the Jan. 2 TaxSlayer Bowl matchup against Iowa in Jacksonville.
 
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grumpy granny....I could care less where they rank. Butch is building a great team and it will continue to take more time.

Whether they leave in a couple of years or over 4 the result is the same. Both teams are only allowed 85 players. Both teams have recruited over 100 players in last 4 years. Doesn't it stand to reason that both have cut near same amount o players loose? Stands to reason both have over signed.

You are the one that brought up having less than full strength of 85. When that argument hit the rocks you deflected to some other nonsense.

Much like you, your high horse is a jackass

You make no sense, have no knowledge how the ncaa rules regarding the 85 limit works, how you are able to sign more than 25 pet year. But still think it is not attaching limits, yet are asking kids greyshirt and blieshirt, whatever that is in order to sign 1 more.

Good for you, but especially fans of other SEC teams, don't choke any of your easy wins and maybe you make it to a bowl 2 years in a row. Who knows butch might have a winning record against vandy this time next year, Thx to Franklin leaving..
 
Jesus man.... How many times do you have to be told that Hurd wasn't passed out in a car. He was in his dorm and the police called him to tell him they pulled a car over that was registered in his name and the driver was intoxicated. Hurd walked to his car and picked it up the officer smelt alcohol on him and gave his a citation for underage consumption but keep making this story up every time you talk about it. Kyle Oliver was kicked off for multiple issues with weed. If you're gonna try and make Tennessee look bad than that's fine but at least know what you're talking about.


I don't have to "try and make Tennessee look bad", they're doing that well enough themselves w/o my help.
 
You make no sense, have no knowledge how the ncaa rules regarding the 85 limit works, how you are able to sign more than 25 pet year. But still think it is not attaching limits, yet are asking kids greyshirt and blieshirt, whatever that is in order to sign 1 more.

Good for you, but especially fans of other SEC teams, don't choke any of your easy wins and maybe you make it to a bowl 2 years in a row. Who knows butch might have a winning record against vandy this time next year, Thx to Franklin leaving..

In other words, you were wrong, no rules are broken, and you are deflecting.

I know how the 85 limit rule works. Wish I could say the same for you and math.

Got it.
Thanks
 
That's fine.... Just keep fabricating bad stuff about UT all you want but I'm not surprised you didn't answer my question.

The last sentence, in part Hurd won't miss the bowl, is all you need to know. That wrist slap, the "internal discipline" must have been just awful for Vol fans everywhere. Poor fellow.
 
The last sentence, in part Hurd won't miss the bowl, is all you need to know. That wrist slap, the "internal discipline" must have been just awful for Vol fans everywhere. Poor fellow.

I'm guessing the wrist slap was similar to Demarco Robinson being suspended for the last 2 games, later being arrested in January, then starting the opener against UT Martin.

Different because it is Tennessee. Ok.
 
It's OK UT fans, really is. We get it. Your self-stated goal is to "Return to the glory days." What ever it takes.
 
It's OK UT fans, really is. We get it. Your self-stated goal is to "Return to the glory days." What ever it takes.

Figured you would wave the white flag when your coach did with Demarco what Butch did with Jalen.

Throwing stones in NCAA sports. smh.
 
Figured you would wave the white flag when your coach did with Demarco what Butch did with Jalen.

Throwing stones in NCAA sports. smh.


There, there O/W, don't worry. Everything's falling in place for you to assume your rightful place among the college football elite. Your Tn media, an extension of your athletic dept, is back in place. Alums are ponying up the $, your coach is running off less talented guys so he can continue to beg recruiting services to "Re-Star" his recruits...you're getting there. Yessir, return to the glory days indeed! Won't be long at all before you can avoiding stooping to visit the site of us, the great unwashed. My my, what an exciting time for you!
 
Yeah, no one Drove the car, the coaches had it airlifted in------wait, wasn't it a parking garage?
 
-it is all part of big-time cfb...some do it more than others. Loosen trasfer rules and it is all good.

-pimping out your daughters to prospective players is another thing. Hopefully tenn doesnt start that up again...its shameful. I know some folks will do anything to win big...but that is beyond reprehensible.
 
-it is all part of big-time cfb...some do it more than others. Loosen trasfer rules and it is all good.

-pimping out your daughters to prospective players is another thing. Hopefully tenn doesnt start that up again...its shameful. I know some folks will do anything to win big...but that is beyond reprehensible.

If you don't think pretty girls are used at UK for bb and fb recruiting you are very naive.

It got attention because kiffin was a lightning rod
 
Yeah, no one Drove the car, the coaches had it airlifted in------wait, wasn't it a parking garage?

...and the charges against Demarco (we all know how you feel about resisting arrest) ended up with internal punishment just like Jalen.

No games were missed.

I know...I know.......that is different
 
If you don't think pretty girls are used at UK for bb and fb recruiting you are very naive.

It got attention because kiffin was a lightning rod

It got attention because a 22 year old WOMAN and friends went on a 350 mile recruiting trip to see some teenagers because they could play football.
 
In other words, you were wrong, no rules are broken, and you are deflecting.

I know how the 85 limit rule works. Wish I could say the same for you and math.

Got it.
Thanks

I never once said it was illegal, I said it was unethical, you do understand the difference or is that expecting too much?. 14 players gone from your last 2 signing classes, do you not see that as an issue? When it comes time to figure the % of graduates from those classes and you lose scholarships because graduation % is so low, are you not concerned with that? I realize UT throws degrees out like a clown throws bubble gum at a Christmas parade, but when you remove 25% of the class, the highest you could possibly have graduate is 75%, which will lose you scholarships. Or is UT a stepping stone for Butch and he doesn't care? Will he be called to Big10 country, they seem to like recycled SEC coaches.
 
Figured you would wave the white flag when your coach did with Demarco what Butch did with Jalen.

Throwing stones in NCAA sports. smh.

Would be different this year, Hurd will be a backup, or Kamara will be a team cancer like he was at Bama. He is a better back than Hurd, maybe top 10 in SEC.
 
Its an old practice, but it is usually confined to the college campus, every SEC school isn't sending them to HS games.
Would it make a difference in your mind if you knew that 4 of the 5 girls that went on that "recruiting" trip actually went to that high school and one of the girls was dating a player on the team that UT was not recruiting?
 
Would it make a difference in your mind if you knew that 4 of the 5 girls that went on that "recruiting" trip actually went to that high school and one of the girls was dating a player on the team that UT was not recruiting?

One of the girls was dating anyone juice in told her too and she wasn't from that school.


So the story is now that the entire vol recruiting girls all went to the same out of state high school I except one who was dating that one iPlayer? Nice spin, except the most famous girl of that group wasn't from there, and she had blue chip kids asking for her on their visit, she dated who she was told to date. But I have to give you credit for that. Spin. I have more inside connections to the vol program than 95% of their fans. My uncle is a letterman, I am good friends with 3 former UT AAs, so I know how UT does things.
 
How did I spin it? All I did was give you the facts and ask if that means anything to you. I'm not denying what happened or trying to say Kiffin wasn't involved but why are we going back 3 coaches ago and 6 years to bad mouth UT?
 
It never hurts to have a few pretty girls around, but most schools don't include sex with the girls. Of course that probably isn't as bad as UL's chief recruiter hurtt was involved in at the U, where they rented hotel rooms and staffed them with paid prostitutes. Of course he got religion before jurich hired him, well, either that or the incompetent NCAA was so embarrassed by the fiasco their investigation at the U turned into they just wanted to hide instead of wondering how he got all those four stars from the beaches of Miami.

Of course UL does have the Ohio River, have you ever seen some of the babes sunbathing out there?
 
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