How many of Cal's players here have stayed after declaring?

[kentuckycriedfricken]

All these players left Cal's team and stayed in the draft:

John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Brandon Knight
DeAndre Liggins
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Marquis Teague
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Dakari Johnson
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
P.J. Washington
Tyler Herro
Keldon Johnson
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Nick Richards
Isaiah Jackson
Brandon Boston Jr.
TyTy Washington

Who besides Hamidou Diallo came back?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Before we answer that, please let us know which year the rule changed, allowing players to be evaluated, without an agent, and still retain college eligibility. Thanks.

 

[UK2KJAG]

All those early entrants. And I only count 1 title….

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

All these players left Cal's team and stayed in the draft:

John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Andrew Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
P.J. Washington
Tyler Herro
Keldon Johnson
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Nick Richards
Isaiah Jackson
Brandon Boston Jr.
TyTy Washington

Who besides Hamidou Diallo came back?

Diallo, Richards, Washington, Quickley,

Now let's take the question to this--how many were guys who should've returned to college based on where they were drafted/careers ended up? I'd say Skal, Dakari, Twins, Goodwin, Lamb, Teague, Jones and Orton.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

All those early entrants. And I only count 1 title….

25 of those guys were in the 10-15 era which no fan would complain about the results minus how '15 season ended. The problem is look post '15 and specifically post '18...the talent pool has dried up quite a bit. Also Darius Miller was a Senior at Kentucky--he didn't leave early.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

25 of those guys were in the 10-15 era which no fan would complain about the results minus how '15 season ended. The problem is look post '15 and specifically post '18...the talent pool has dried up quite a bit. Also Darius Miller was a Senior at Kentucky--he didn't leave early.

Fair enough on Miller. I'm not here to argue trends however, but this thread is because people are throwing around a national number of 76% returnees as though that somehow represents how UK players return.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Brad came back correct?

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

Fair enough on Miller. I'm not here to argue trends however, but this thread is because people are throwing around a national number of 76% returnees as though that somehow represents how UK players return.

The point is who left that shouldn't have. That's the debate. To include Wall/Davis/KAT on that list is silly. If you can be the #1 player selected you go. If you can go top 5 it's automatic. Top 10-Low Lottery makes sense if you think you can't creep into the top 3/5 range. But understand why most go at all times, but the competitiveness in our society has dropped and is frowned upon so why do we expect athletics to be different? Hell the Cuckold NBA has this play in tournament. Why? You played 82 games...unless there is a tie, your 7th and 8th seeds have been earned. If a franchise loses a talented player, that's life. But not in Count Silver's world of being a servant to the higher power--be it China, Players, etc...and he's pissed off TV where the ratings are taking a pummeling due to elite players sitting out all the time. Silver is the anti-Stern who made the NBA what it was. Give something great to a Dookie--that's what happens.

The sport is to blame as much as Kentucky/Calipari for this. They all draft on potential and development because so many coaches in CBB are suck ass awful (this sport is at an all time coaching low in terms of guys who let players play) right now and don't send guys to the NBA knowing how to play or improving. College staffs are made up of control freak HC's due to $. Like any occupation when people make a lot of money they think they are smarter or have to prove they are smart. Just be the person who earned the money and let the athletes (in this industry) take you over the top.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

KB came back last year. Also, wasn't there a year where C^3 mocked the entire process? Even had the walk-ons declare?

Did KB enter the draft?

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

The point is who left that shouldn't have. That's the debate. To include Wall/Davis/KAT on that list is silly. If you can be the #1 player selected you go. If you can go top 5 it's automatic. Top 10-Low Lottery makes sense if you think you can't creep into the top 3/5 range. But understand why most go at all times, but the competitiveness in our society has dropped and is frowned upon so why do we expect athletics to be different? Hell the Cuckold NBA has this play in tournament. Why? You played 82 games...unless there is a tie, your 7th and 8th seeds have been earned. If a franchise loses a talented player, that's life. But not in Count Silver's world of being a servant to the higher power--be it China, Players, etc...and he's pissed off TV where the ratings are taking a pummeling due to elite players sitting out all the time. Silver is the anti-Stern who made the NBA what it was. Give something great to a Dookie--that's what happens.

The sport is to blame as much as Kentucky/Calipari for this. They all draft on potential and development because so many coaches in CBB are suck ass awful (this sport is at an all time coaching low in terms of guys who let players play) right now and don't send guys to the NBA knowing how to play or improving. College staffs are made up of control freak HC's due to $. Like any occupation when people make a lot of money they think they are smarter or have to prove they are smart. Just be the person who earned the money and let the athletes (in this industry) take you over the top.

Nope. My debate is with those who say 76% of players who leave come back. I want them to explain how that sample applies to UK. The argument is whose model is more predictive of Toppin returning.

 

[UK90]

EJ Montgomery declared for the draft after his freshman season but came back.

But, of course, that’s only because everyone told him he didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of being drafted. And even he waited until the very last minute of the very last day before the deadline to reluctantly announce that he was staying.

 

[Smashcat]

Diallo, Richards, Washington, Quickley,

Now let's take the question to this--how many were guys who should've returned to college based on where they were drafted/careers ended up? I'd say Skal, Dakari, Twins, Goodwin, Lamb, Teague, Jones and Orton.

I know from a pretty good source Cal all but begged Skal to return.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

I know from a pretty good source Cal all but begged Skal to return.

100% true.

Also Cal wanted Teague AND Lamb back and Teague was coming back before he had a great NCAA Tournament. Lamb just wanted out of college.

Dakari should've stayed.

I'd have advised Kevin Knox to stay one more year just due to how young he was, but he went Lottery so he's got his $ even though he's about to be an unemployed 23 yr old.....so hope he latches on somewhere but his confidence took a major hit and if he couldn't get it back with Knicks adding Payne to staff...not sure it's happening for him.

 

[trueblujr2]

Didn't Richards explore his options a time or two before leaving?

 

[TFCats11]

All these players left Cal's team and stayed in the draft:

John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Andrew Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
P.J. Washington
Tyler Herro
Keldon Johnson
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Nick Richards
Isaiah Jackson
Brandon Boston Jr.
TyTy Washington

Who besides Hamidou Diallo came back?

OT- But 1 title after having all of the embarrassment of riches that’s listed? I think it’s time someone coins a good nickname for Calipari… oh, wait😜

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

100% true.

Also Cal wanted Teague AND Lamb back and Teague was coming back before he had a great NCAA Tournament. Lamb just wanted out of college.

Dakari should've stayed.

I'd have advised Kevin Knox to stay one more year just due to how young he was, but he went Lottery so he's got his $ even though he's about to be an unemployed 23 yr old.....so hope he latches on somewhere but his confidence took a major hit and if he couldn't get it back with Knicks adding Payne to staff...not sure it's happening for him.

Correct. Cal literally threw everything he had at Skal to bring him back. I have heard that Lamb was too baked to come back even if he changed his mind and wanted to - kid hated school and class, and just wanted out no matter what. Teague was going to come back, and didn’t - and you see what happened there ending up with the point guard we had - no way that was the plan; but Teague probably wasn’t going to improve considering the team planned to be around him the following season.

 

[Padsfs07]

It happens every year actually:

Mintz, 2021:
https://ukathletics.com/news/2021/5...raft-leaves-option-open-for-return-to-uk.aspx

Brooks, 2020:
https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...rtedly-returning-sophomore-season/2959946001/

Richards & Montgomery, 2019:
https://247sports.com/college/kentu...ck-Richards-declares-for-NBA-Draft-131414224/
https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...s-ej-montgomery-boosts-wildcats-by-returning/

PJ Washington, 2018:
https://www.aseaofblue.com/kentucky...018/4/3/17185380/pj-washington-2018-nba-draft

Diallo, 2017:
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/4/23/15402264/hamidou-diallo-declares-for-2017-nba-draft

Briscoe, 2016:
https://www.zagsblog.com/2016/06/21/isaiah-briscoe-withdraws-from-nba-draft-will-return-to-kentucky/

 

[ManitouDan]

No one , not even the running joke from the 80 s Dean Smith , has done less with more .. than John calapari

 

[1Catmantoo]

All these players left Cal's team and stayed in the draft:

John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Andrew Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
P.J. Washington
Tyler Herro
Keldon Johnson
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Nick Richards
Isaiah Jackson
Brandon Boston Jr.
TyTy Washington

Who besides Hamidou Diallo came back?

Richard’s, Willie, PJ, Dakari, and the Harrison’s came back, and Kanter was ineligible.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

Richard’s, Willie, PJ, Dakari, and the Harrison’s came back, and Kanter was ineligible.

Far less than the 76% average nationwide, that's for dayum sure.

 

[Miked999]

All these players left Cal's team and stayed in the draft:

John Wall
DeMarcus Cousins
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Andrew Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissiere
Tyler Ulis
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Bam Adebayo
Kevin Knox
Shai Gilgeous-alexander
Jarred Vanderbilt
P.J. Washington
Tyler Herro
Keldon Johnson
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Nick Richards
Isaiah Jackson
Brandon Boston Jr.
TyTy Washington

Who besides Hamidou Diallo came back?

So have you done a similar analysis of other top programs during the one & done era and how many of their players have declared, but came back?

 

[Fox2monk]

I think the most relevant data is who could go first round, and went thru the process only to return. I can’t think of any except for Jones and that was due to lockout.

 

[Fox2monk]

100% true.

Also Cal wanted Teague AND Lamb back and Teague was coming back before he had a great NCAA Tournament. Lamb just wanted out of college.

Dakari should've stayed.

I'd have advised Kevin Knox to stay one more year just due to how young he was, but he went Lottery so he's got his $ even though he's about to be an unemployed 23 yr old.....so hope he latches on somewhere but his confidence took a major hit and if he couldn't get it back with Knicks adding Payne to staff...not sure it's happening for him.

Knox only got 6 minutes of run a game after being traded to Atlanta so yeah I’d assume he’s about done.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

So have you done a similar analysis of other top programs during the one & done era and how many of their players have declared, but came back?

I don't have to.

I'm answering those who say 76% of players who declare come back. I wanted to know how Kentucky skews that average.

I got my answer. Only a handful out of dozens of declaring players actually return.

 

[Miked999]

I don't have to.

I'm answering those who say 76% of players who declare come back. I wanted to know how Kentucky skews that average.

I got my answer. Only a handful out of dozens of declaring players actually return.

Not sure what your point is. The vast majority of these players who left and didn't come back had/have solid to great success in the NBA. What would they have gained by coming back? Kentucky only skewed the average because until the rest of college basketball caught up to Kentucky in the one & done game, we were getting the best players, those who shouldn't have come back.

 

[bbncal02]

Knox only got 6 minutes of run a game after being traded to Atlanta so yeah I’d assume he’s about done.

I liked Knox but he was a bust. Kid just had no consistency to his game.

 

[bbncal02]

Kentucky's Entire Team Declares For Draft

Here's how Calipari described it:

When the season’s over, it’s about each individual player and what’s right for them and their families. With that being said, every player who is eligible for the draft, including our walk-ons, will submit their names for the NBA Draft in hopes of being invited to the combine in May.

The new rule states they can submit their name a total of three times. If they choose to withdraw, they have until 10 days after the combine. It’s a true win-win for the student-athlete.

Basically if you’re a sophomore you should go every year. No harm no foul.

 

[SosaUK87]

A ton of players have returned after getting “feedback”. Cal makes ALL of his players do it. Dumb thread.

 

[SosaUK87]

Kentucky's Entire Team Declares For Draft

Here's how Calipari described it:

When the season’s over, it’s about each individual player and what’s right for them and their families. With that being said, every player who is eligible for the draft, including our walk-ons, will submit their names for the NBA Draft in hopes of being invited to the combine in May.

The new rule states they can submit their name a total of three times. If they choose to withdraw, they have until 10 days after the combine. It’s a true win-win for the student-athlete.

Thank you.

 

[JC CATS]

Brad came back correct?

Isn't he still here?

 

[bthaunert]

I don't have to.

I'm answering those who say 76% of players who declare come back. I wanted to know how Kentucky skews that average.

I got my answer. Only a handful out of dozens of declaring players actually return.

I'm the one who put the 76% in the other thread. It was specifically in reference to Toppin. I believe he will be part of the 76%. I'm still trying to understand what you're getting at. Most of the guys who left early should have left early. Toppin shouldn't, and I don't think he will.

 

[gossie21]

So the list of players that declared and came back includes:
Terrence Jones
Willie Cauley-Stein
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Hamidou Diallo
PJ Washington
EJ Montgomery
Nick Richards
Immanuel Quickly

And somehow the OP listed Harrelson, Kanter, and Darius Miller who left after their eligibility expired (or was denied).

While our numbers aren't great on having players come back. They are better than the OP suggested. And when you subtract out the players who weren't eligible to return and Lottery Pick talents, we are probably getting around 50% back.

With that said, there is still a very alarming trend with the culture Calipari has created and which does not promote or encourage players to stay in the program and develop. I don't know if there is anything he can do about it, or if he cares to do anything about it.

 

[bbncal02]

So the list of players that declared and came back includes:
Terrence Jones
Willie Cauley-Stein
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Hamidou Diallo
PJ Washington
EJ Montgomery
Nick Richards
Immanuel Quickly

And somehow the OP listed Harrelson, Kanter, and Darius Miller who left after their eligibility expired (or was denied).

While our numbers aren't great on having players come back. They are better than the OP suggested. And when you subtract out the players who weren't eligible to return and Lottery Pick talents, we are probably getting around 50% back.

With that said, there is still a very alarming trend with the culture Calipari has created and which does not promote or encourage players to stay in the program and develop. I don't know if there is anything he can do about it, or if he cares to do anything about it.

May be easier with NIL now. For example Brooks can come back and earn money and not be a complete idiot by going to the G league.

Problem is we’re not going to see how good Cal is at using that because Cal decided to be Cal and screw everything up.

 

[Padsfs07]

So the list of players that declared and came back includes:
Terrence Jones
Willie Cauley-Stein
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Hamidou Diallo
PJ Washington
EJ Montgomery
Nick Richards
Immanuel Quickly

And somehow the OP listed Harrelson, Kanter, and Darius Miller who left after their eligibility expired (or was denied).

While our numbers aren't great on having players come back. They are better than the OP suggested. And when you subtract out the players who weren't eligible to return and Lottery Pick talents, we are probably getting around 50% back.

With that said, there is still a very alarming trend with the culture Calipari has created and which does not promote or encourage players to stay in the program and develop. I don't know if there is anything he can do about it, or if he cares to do anything about it.

you missed Mintz, Brooks, and Briscoe too

 

[deep3]

100% true.

Also Cal wanted Teague AND Lamb back and Teague was coming back before he had a great NCAA Tournament. Lamb just wanted out of college.

Dakari should've stayed.

I'd have advised Kevin Knox to stay one more year just due to how young he was, but he went Lottery so he's got his $ even though he's about to be an unemployed 23 yr old.....so hope he latches on somewhere but his confidence took a major hit and if he couldn't get it back with Knicks adding Payne to staff...not sure it's happening for him.

Question for you. I believe Cal is getting ready to leave and he’s going to burn the place down with guiding players/coaches to leave, he’s done this before. I believe 2022 will be ugly, who do we realistically go get potentially? I’m in the Buzz Williams/Kelvin Sampson camp, thoughts?

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

Question for you. I believe Cal is getting ready to leave and he’s going to burn the place down with guiding players/coaches to leave, he’s done this before. I believe 2022 will be ugly, who do we realistically go get potentially? I’m in the Buzz Williams/Kelvin Sampson camp, thoughts?

Did Calipari have a contract that not only has $52M left but a $1M a year consultation role for him after he's done coaching at previous stops? He's going to finish his coaching career here and get that $.

Buzz Williams would be Billy Gillespie like. That's an absolute garbage hire for a program like Kentucky.

Kelvin Sampson has a better program than Kentucky right now and will have his best team with Final Four in Houston next year. He's also in his 60's-he's not going to want this job.

If you replace Calipari, you better think big or go young and let that guy develop over time....which wouldn't go over well here.

 

[bthaunert]

Question for you. I believe Cal is getting ready to leave and he’s going to burn the place down with guiding players/coaches to leave, he’s done this before. I believe 2022 will be ugly, who do we realistically go get potentially? I’m in the Buzz Williams/Kelvin Sampson camp, thoughts?

I don’t get the Buzz Williams love…and I’m not just speaking about you. I think some fans are enamored with the National Anthem video and the way he took on the selection committee this year and not his results. He’s won exactly 2 tournament games (in the same year) in the last 9 NCAA Tournaments. Billy Kennedy went to the Sweet 16 twice in his last 4 years at TAMU and Buzz has failed to make the tourney since arriving in College Station and has gone 21-25 in the SEC.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

Not sure what your point is. The vast majority of these players who left and didn't come back had/have solid to great success in the NBA. What would they have gained by coming back? Kentucky only skewed the average because until the rest of college basketball caught up to Kentucky in the one & done game, we were getting the best players, those who shouldn't have come back.

My point is, it's likely Toppin is gone.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

Did Calipari have a contract that not only has $52M left but a $1M a year consultation role for him after he's done coaching at previous stops? He's going to finish his coaching career here and get that $.

Buzz Williams would be Billy Gillespie like. That's an absolute garbage hire for a program like Kentucky.

Kelvin Sampson has a better program than Kentucky right now and will have his best team with Final Four in Houston next year. He's also in his 60's-he's not going to want this job.

If you replace Calipari, you better think big or go young and let that guy develop over time....which wouldn't go over well here.

Cal is in his 60s too. You're absolutely right about the options - either we find a young, hungry guy or we back up the Brinks truck to Jay Wright's house and put the shifter into park.

 

[kentuckycriedfricken]

So the list of players that declared and came back includes:
Terrence Jones
Willie Cauley-Stein
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Hamidou Diallo
PJ Washington
EJ Montgomery
Nick Richards
Immanuel Quickly

And somehow the OP listed Harrelson, Kanter, and Darius Miller who left after their eligibility expired (or was denied).

While our numbers aren't great on having players come back. They are better than the OP suggested. And when you subtract out the players who weren't eligible to return and Lottery Pick talents, we are probably getting around 50% back.

With that said, there is still a very alarming trend with the culture Calipari has created and which does not promote or encourage players to stay in the program and develop. I don't know if there is anything he can do about it, or if he cares to do anything about it.

I edited my list down to 38, left out those ineligible and who actually came back like Jones, Lamb, and the Harrisons.

Adding Mintz and Brooks, your list comes to 11. That's a 22% return rate.