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Goose on Leach Report

Wonky

Junior
Jan 16, 2021
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Saying exactly what I’ve been thinking. Basically that because Pope runs a real offense (unlike Cal), it becomes much less important to have that “go make a play” guy.

He said he still wants a guy like that, but it would be more of a luxury now and not a necessity.
 
Saying exactly what I’ve been thinking. Basically that because Pope runs a real offense (unlike Cal), it becomes much less important to have that “go make a play” guy.

He said he still wants a guy like that, but it would be more of a luxury now and not a necessity.
Call me crazy, but I think Oweh can develop into that guy next year. Excited to see how this team develops.
 
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Easy for Goose to say. Joe B. Hall ran a real offense too -- that worked when you had Goose.

I get what you’re saying, but kind of hard to compare that to this current long ball era. If you know how to reverse the ball and make the extra pass, and have 6 different guys that shoot 36% or better from 3, you can potentially bludgeon people.
 
I would still want one high energetic, athletic 3 and one bruiser at 4 that will get offensive , rebounds, be able to slash and drive to the basket and create his own shot.

There will be games that teams will defend well the 3 point line and cover the 5 so then you need a Randle type of guy or even a Thiero from last year.

On current guards just Oweh fits that profile. I would still want one 6”7 guy and 6”9 guy that can give us that other physical dimension that we missing …
 
Saying exactly what I’ve been thinking. Basically that because Pope runs a real offense (unlike Cal), it becomes much less important to have that “go make a play” guy.

He said he still wants a guy like that, but it would be more of a luxury now and not a necessity.
After watching his team on video's that is what I thought. There is so much movement of all the players it's everybody looking for guys in spots on the floor when they run and pick and rolls and movement off the ball. Whereas with Cal everybody goes down the court and gets in their spots while the one is dribbling for a while.
 
We need a dude and we will get one BUT absolutely his coaching and us being way older and experienced will go a long way and further than what you think the roster is capable of. But i do think we add a couple other pieces and we will be capable of making a Final Four run when the roster shakes out. Whether we do or not who knows but it will be a team capable of doing so.
 
Saying exactly what I’ve been thinking. Basically that because Pope runs a real offense (unlike Cal), it becomes much less important to have that “go make a play” guy.

He said he still wants a guy like that, but it would be more of a luxury now and not a necessity.
I mean, he's got an offensive scheme that promotes open shots and movements/cuts to the basket and he's already loaded the roster with multiple 40%+ 3 point shooters in multiple positions.

Yea, having a 'star' would help (I'm personally hoping everyday Robinson comes here) but this whole 'go get a basket' that people like marble mouth Goodman are pushing is way overblown I think
 
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For instance we are going to play early on a very long and athletic Duke, which we know will defend the 3 line aggressively, hedging and trapping . That will leave some back door open but they do have couple 7 footers and guys like Cooper that will leap back and try to erase that from weak side. So then you need a bruiser or athletic guy that can make his own shot and score from all 3 positions. Besides Oweh most of guards and even Carr at 4 would not fit that aggressive profile.
 
This is accurate. Pope's offense is more than just spacing and isolation. It's spacing for sure. But there are defined actions to get guys looks off of those actions, rather than actions designed to get guys in space to "go make a play". It's weird though. Take Rob. No way he's the Rob we knew in Pope's offense. He might have been better, but I'd bet we wouldn't remember him for all the crazy special plays he was able to make.
 
For instance we are going to play early on a very long and athletic Duke, which we know will defend the 3 line aggressively, hedging and trapping . That will leave some back door open but they do have couple 7 footers and guys like Cooper that will leap back and try to erase that from weak side. So then you need a bruiser or athletic guy that can make his own shot and score from all 3 positions. Besides Oweh most of guards and even Carr at 4 would not fit that aggressive profile.
Duke will have a lot of youth too.
They have embraced the one and done and it hasn't taken them to a ff since 2015.
 
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This is accurate. Pope's offense is more than just spacing and isolation. It's spacing for sure. But there are defined actions to get guys looks off of those actions, rather than actions designed to get guys in space to "go make a play". It's weird though. Take Rob. No way he's the Rob we knew in Pope's offense. He might have been better, but I'd bet we wouldn't remember him for all the crazy special plays he was able to make.
I wish people would do what you've done: watch the old BYU games. Pope's offense isn't what everyone else does, just better. It's completely different. And Pope's offense really doesn't have this panic mode where you hand the ball to a guy and just watch. If that worked, why wouldn't teams just do that all the time? Why didn't the Bulls put 4 guys of the far sideline and just give Jordan the ball. Every time. Jordan, after all. is the definition of that style.
 
Saying exactly what I’ve been thinking. Basically that because Pope runs a real offense (unlike Cal), it becomes much less important to have that “go make a play” guy.

He said he still wants a guy like that, but it would be more of a luxury now and not a necessity.
CMP's offense is based on moving the ball with passing (not dribbling) and running cutters off 1 and/or 2 screens, not 1 on 1 play. If defense sags to defend cutters, you have 1 or 2 outside the 3 point line looking for a pass. Unlike COW's "offense" there is no "go make a play" being your main offense. BYU liked to get an early shot off a break if available, then run the cutter/screen action if not. I watched 5 games and rarely saw a player having to create his own shot or the clock shot run out.

With the screening, the opponent's defense has to determine to either sag and play the cutter, giving up the 3 point shot, or play tight on the cutter which allows a pass to be made to the cutter coming of the screen for a layup. There is little help side defense as the defensive player does not want to come off their man as it opens up the cutter passing the ball outside for a 3 point shot. Kelvin Sampson when asked how to defend BYU just shook his head and said it was the most difficult team to prepare for defensively.

I also noticed CMP used his bench often. Don't know the minutes per player breakdown but he had fresh legs to run this offense on the floor at all times. Whereas Pitino pressured the opponent with defense, CMP seems to pressure the opponent with his offense. It is tiring having to play defense anyway and the constant movement of CMP's offense makes it even more so. For this reason, I think he will play 9, 10, or 11 players in a game.

The talent that is on board at present is enough to be successful and compete. The main weakness will be that none have ever played together and this cohesiveness can only be attained with game action. Also, I don't understand how long it might take for next year's team to master this offense. It will be foreign to every incoming player so the early season games will truly be a test for "our new team." Fortunately, we will have a very veteran team with mostly 5th year players, instead of mostly 5* freshmen that Ellen's roommate preferred.

I think there will be some early losses before SEC play begins but feel that CMP and staff will bring these guys along and have a tough team to deal with later in the SEC regular season.
 
If you don’t have guys that can break down the defense and/or command a double team, those spot up shooters have a hard time getting good looks. Not saying they don’t have that, but for an offense like this it becomes pretty important. That shot clock starts getting really short when you don’t have somebody that demands the defenses attention. Like I said, maybe they have that guy already, but it’s necessary with the kind of roster they have at the moment.
 
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UConn last year had their top 4 scorers all be within 2PPG of each other. Now, you need 4 legit players to make that happen, but Goose is right in that we don't have to have a "the guy" in the way some think.
UConn also had two lottery picks.
 
I wish people would do what you've done: watch the old BYU games. Pope's offense isn't what everyone else does, just better. It's completely different. And Pope's offense really doesn't have this panic mode where you hand the ball to a guy and just watch. If that worked, why wouldn't teams just do that all the time? Why didn't the Bulls put 4 guys of the far sideline and just give Jordan the ball. Every time. Jordan, after all. is the definition of that style.
Exactly
 
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For instance we are going to play early on a very long and athletic Duke, which we know will defend the 3 line aggressively, hedging and trapping . That will leave some back door open but they do have couple 7 footers and guys like Cooper that will leap back and try to erase that from weak side. So then you need a bruiser or athletic guy that can make his own shot and score from all 3 positions. Besides Oweh most of guards and even Carr at 4 would not fit that aggressive profile.
Or we can have one of our veterans put Cooper on his ass and teach him a lesson about what age and experience gets you.
 
If you don’t have guys that can break down the defense and/or command a double team, those spot up shooters have a hard time getting good looks. Not saying they don’t have that, but for an offense like this it becomes pretty important. That shot clock starts getting really short when you don’t have somebody that demands the defenses attention. Like I said, maybe they have that guy already, but it’s necessary with the kind of roster they have at the moment.
Just based on what I’ve watched from BYU’s action that spot up guy is usually getting free from the side zoom action or that double high screen pick with the butt screen that can hit the cutter or kick out to the spot up you if his man tries to help off/hard hedge the first screen.

Every team wants a guy that can get a basket if there’s a breakdown. The problem was the previous coach’s entire core offensive strategy was predicated off the dribble and shooters could spot up with help from the penetration. But it leads to stagnation and teams packing it in to cut off the drives.

I think this offense is going to be so drastically different it will take time for UK fans to change their perception of what fits the new system best.
 
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