Give Tubby a lot of credit for this...

[CatsnRoses]

I remember distinctly Tubby going on PTI in 2006/2007 and they questioned why so many Kentucky fans were "out to get him."

Tubby was under a TON of fire at this point in time from the fanbase (and rightfully so) but he responded "I don't think they're out to get me. I just think they want to see Kentucky basketball win championships."

That's one aspect of this that Tubby seemed to grasp that escapes Cal. Cal takes it personally. The criticism clearly gets under his skin and he gets extremely defensive. But for most fans it isn't personal. We love Kentucky basketball. Outside of our families its the most important thing in the world to us.

Tubby understood that but even after 14 years here it seems Cal doesn't.

Here's the clip for anyone interested:

 

[know1]

Cal understands that perfectly. He just doesn't care because it doesn't fit his agenda.

If Tubby would just have had the interest in working recruiting more, I'm convinced he might have ended up the 2nd or 3rd best coach here and one of the most beloved. He should have hired a very skilled recruiting coordinator around 2004.

 

[Deli owl]

I still put Tubby games on at night to put me to sleep.

 

[G-PIP]

I remember distinctly Tubby going on PTI in 2006/2007 and they questioned why so many Kentucky fans were "out to get him."

Tubby was under a TON of fire at this point in time from the fanbase (and rightfully so) but he responded "I don't think they're out to get me. I just think they want to see Kentucky basketball win championships."

That's one aspect of this that Tubby seemed to grasp that escapes Cal. Cal takes it personally. The criticism clearly gets under his skin and he gets extremely defensive. But for most fans it isn't personal. We love Kentucky basketball. Outside of our families its the most important thing in the world to us.

Tubby understood that but even after 14 years here it seems Cal doesn't.

Here's the clip for anyone interested:

View embedded media

Tubby was class personified. Enjoyed watching that clip. Thanks.

 

[chroix]

He also informed a lot of the impatience with Calipari. We remember what it’s like to watch a coach slowly and steadily decline as the game passes them by.

 

[TopCatCal]

Tubby was class personified. Enjoyed watching that clip. Thanks.

Tubby has more class in one of his little fingers than Calipari has in his whole body.

 

[ArcticChar]

Tubby was pure class.

 

[Myotis]

He also informed a lot of the impatience with Calipari. We remember what it’s like to watch a coach slowly and steadily decline as the game passes them by.

This just kills me. It's one of perpetual false slanders of the anti-Tubby crowd. If you think 03-04-05 were a decline from 00-01-02, you weren't watching. Tubby's tenure was up-and-down like that that of most coaches. Had the '05 Cats gone to the Final Four, I suspect Tubby would never have left at the end of '07, and he was one uncalled foul away from that. (The foul on Sparks' 3 at the end of regulation. If that had been called, Cats win. Sparks didn't miss free throws in those circumstances. Ask Louisville)

 

[chroix]

This just kills me. It's one of perpetual false slanders of the anti-Tubby crowd. If you think 03-04-05 were a decline from 00-01-02, you weren't watching. Tubby's tenure was up-and-down like that that of most coaches. Had the '05 Cats gone to the Final Four, I suspect Tubby would never have left at the end of '07, and he was one uncalled foul away from that. (The foul on Sparks' 3 at the end of regulation. If that had been called, Cats win. Sparks didn't miss free throws in those circumstances. Ask Louisville)

If almost winning was good enough to cut it here I’ve got no doubt he’d still be our coach.

Had Calipari gone to the Final Four in the last 4-5 years he faces a lot less criticism too. It’s about actual results not hypotheticals.

 

[Myotis]

If almost winning was good enough to cut it here I’ve got no doubt he’d still be our coach.

Had Calipari gone to the Final Four in the last 4-5 years he faces a lot less criticism too. It’s about actual results not hypotheticals.

The current coach isn't winning at Smith's level.......

 

[chroix]

The current coach isn't winning at Smith's level.......

I think you’re starting to catch on.

 

[Seth_C]

The current coach has sunk to such lows that, had it been Tubby, he would have fired himself.

 

[sambowieshin]

If almost winning was good enough to cut it here I’ve got no doubt he’d still be our coach.

Had Calipari gone to the Final Four in the last 4-5 years he faces a lot less criticism too. It’s about actual results not hypotheticals.

Tubby won 130 games his last 5 years...
Cal has won 105.
Let that sink in for results and almost winning. .

 

[CatFanInIlliniLand]

Tubby was the anti-Cal. He didn’t recruit nearly hard enough. He did get every ounce out of most of his players though. They just happened to be Sheray Thomas & the likes too often near the end. He also made some weird decisions like not playing Rondo enough or bringing Cliff Hawkins off the bench behind Saul. (This isn’t the first time the fans were mystified by starting lineups). However, Tubby got his guys to play hard & was a good in game coach. If he would have had Calipari’s recruits, we would have won 2 or 3 titles, I believe. He just didn’t have the charisma or passion to recruit top kids.

I would expect Coach Drew to be Tubby type here. Not bad but not something I want right now.

 

[Myotis]

If almost winning was good enough to cut it here I’ve got no doubt he’d still be our coach.

Had Calipari gone to the Final Four in the last 4-5 years he faces a lot less criticism too. It’s about actual results not hypotheticals.

And I don't really disagree. I just felt - and still do - that Tubby's performance as a coach didn't warrant the level of criticism he received so quickly. An NCAA title, 3 E8's, 5 SEC championships, 5 SEC tournament titles in 10 years isn't exactly backwater results. My woulda-shoulda-coulda looking comment was more along the lines of just how close he was to deflecting all the criticism. Yes, had Calipari made FF in the past 5 years, he too would be getting a lost less criticism today, but Smith was far closer to that over the last 5 years than Cal has been.

Tubby had Joe B Hall's curse of having to follow a legend. Would have been a tough act for anyone. In fact I remember Joe B commenting that North Carolina should have offered him the job after Dean Smith retired, saying "No point in ruining two people's lives". A very funny but bittersweet comment on his career. And for those folks under 50, even without an Internet and message boards, Hall caught just as much criticism as Tubby and Calipari. You have no business taking this job if you have a thin skin.

 

[JwUKFan11]

Tubby was the anti-Cal. He didn’t recruit nearly hard enough. He did get every ounce out of most of his players though. They just happened to be Sheray Thomas & the likes too often near the end. He also made some weird decisions like not playing Rondo enough or bringing Cliff Hawkins off the bench behind Saul. (This isn’t the first time the fans were mystified by starting lineups). However, Tubby got his guys to play hard & was a good in game coach. If he would have had Calipari’s recruits, we would have won 2 or 3 titles, I believe. He just didn’t have the charisma or passion to recruit top kids.

I would expect Coach Drew to be Tubby type here. Not bad but not something I want right now.

Drew is much closer to Cal then I think many want to admit. Recruits pretty well for Baylor but has done something with it all once. Many will say but wait until he's at UK, well even with really good talent being at a lower school his results have been very mediocre outside of one year. I would want to see at least more S16 and EE's at Baylor.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Said in another thread that there was about a little 10 year stretch post NBA age rule in which everyone lost their minds.

College basketball became recruiting centered and not coaching, development, building a good team/program oriented.

Tubby essentially got screwed. He was a good Xs, Os coach and pretty consistently finishing top of SEC and getting to SS and EEs. Because he wasn't prioritizing lottery potential, nor playing, right away, the NBA potential talent he did get...fans and boosters freaked after 2 years of not seeing an EE or finishing top conference.

Now, ironically, the pendulum has swung back in the other direction. OAD, big marquee recruit, etc has kind of flashed and fizzled. I think you can kind look at the Platoon team as the end of it. Collections of all world talent, mostly young, just weren't the name of the game anymore.

Enter Jay Wright, Mark Few, Bo Ryan...all kind of busted through and popped right around that general time frame. Program guys, with teams who'd been together and developed together.

In the years since you see a repeat, if not those exact same teams, same type of teams and coaches advancing making noise, upsetting bigger dogs so to speak.

KU, UNC, and Duke have gotten theirs too. But those programs and coaches, though they get elite talent, have never oriented things for "names on back of jersey..."

Now you throw in Scott Drew, Matt Painter popping all of a sudden. Both have been around for a while and built stable programs but their getting some late season action now.

 

[ganner918]

This just kills me. It's one of perpetual false slanders of the anti-Tubby crowd. If you think 03-04-05 were a decline from 00-01-02, you weren't watching. Tubby's tenure was up-and-down like that that of most coaches. Had the '05 Cats gone to the Final Four, I suspect Tubby would never have left at the end of '07, and he was one uncalled foul away from that. (The foul on Sparks' 3 at the end of regulation. If that had been called, Cats win. Sparks didn't miss free throws in those circumstances. Ask Louisville)

He might have (probably would have) gotten more leeway if '05 had been a Final Four, but the talent level had dropped badly. Those squads in 06 and 07 were just athletically inferior to other top programs, we got run of the floor by really good teams.

Maybe that turns around - we did have a freshman Meeks his last year, likely still add Patterson in 07-08, and have Draymond Green committed for 08-09 along with probably still adding Miller. But the 08 squad wasn't going to excel under Tubby, even if he wasn't going to drop games to Gardner Webb and San Diego. It was basically the same squad as 07 with Patterson replacing Morris at center and no good forwards. So we'd be looking at 3 straight years of mediocrity then, and who knows what recruiting looks like going forward. 08-09 could have been pretty bad with the same problem Gillispie had - only two good players, though Tubby would have delivered better than G.

 

[CapitolHillCat]

Tubby was a class act.

I will never forget that he remembered my name after coming back to a summer camp two years in a row. I wasn’t a great player, decent, but he talked to me each year for a while. He always seemed like a great man

 

[SkyPrince1]

Tubby was the anti-Cal. He didn’t recruit nearly hard enough. He did get every ounce out of most of his players though. They just happened to be Sheray Thomas & the likes too often near the end. He also made some weird decisions like not playing Rondo enough or bringing Cliff Hawkins off the bench behind Saul. (This isn’t the first time the fans were mystified by starting lineups). However, Tubby got his guys to play hard & was a good in game coach. If he would have had Calipari’s recruits, we would have won 2 or 3 titles, I believe. He just didn’t have the charisma or passion to recruit top kids.

I would expect Coach Drew to be Tubby type here. Not bad but not something I want right now.

Drew is 10 times the recruiter that Tubby was.
Tubby was historically bad. By far the worst recruiter to ever coach UK.
You would need a whole new thread to go over all of Tubby 's recruiting mishaps, misses, and mis- evaluations.

 

[rick64]

Always thought highly of Tubby as a person. If it weren't for Dwyane Wade and injuries might have won two nattys instead of just one at UK.

 

[saxonburgcat]

And I don't really disagree. I just felt - and still do - that Tubby's performance as a coach didn't warrant the level of criticism he received so quickly. An NCAA title, 3 E8's, 5 SEC championships, 5 SEC tournament titles in 10 years isn't exactly backwater results. My woulda-shoulda-coulda looking comment was more along the lines of just how close he was to deflecting all the criticism. Yes, had Calipari made FF in the past 5 years, he too would be getting a lost less criticism today, but Smith was far closer to that over the last 5 years than Cal has been.

Tubby had Joe B Hall's curse of having to follow a legend. Would have been a tough act for anyone. In fact I remember Joe B commenting that North Carolina should have offered him the job after Dean Smith retired, saying "No point in ruining two people's lives". A very funny but bittersweet comment on his career. And for those folks under 50, even without an Internet and message boards, Hall caught just as much criticism as Tubby and Calipari. You have no business taking this job if you have a thin skin.

The double standard still kills me. Tubby made 2, count them, 2 E8's in his final 8 years. That is what did him in.
His real success came in his first 2 years (NC and E8). His last two teams were bubble teams and the direction was continuing downward due to recruiting.

Cal has 2 E8's in his last 8 years as well and some darn good success in his first 7 years (NC and 3 FF's). His last 4 seasons have been horrible.

Both coaches overstayed their welcome and were trailing off. In Tubby's last 17 years of coaching he never made a single Sweet 16!

As the old saying goes, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." Watching you guys play with the statistics in way that no business in America would do in evaluations is pretty funny, to be honest.

 

[Bluesbrother]

Tubby was class personified. Enjoyed watching that clip. Thanks.

Tubby's a fine man and there's not one ounce of arrogance in him. He should always be remembered by the fanbase with respect and gratitude, IMO.

 

[true blue1]

I remember distinctly Tubby going on PTI in 2006/2007 and they questioned why so many Kentucky fans were "out to get him."

Tubby was under a TON of fire at this point in time from the fanbase (and rightfully so) but he responded "I don't think they're out to get me. I just think they want to see Kentucky basketball win championships."

That's one aspect of this that Tubby seemed to grasp that escapes Cal. Cal takes it personally. The criticism clearly gets under his skin and he gets extremely defensive. But for most fans it isn't personal. We love Kentucky basketball. Outside of our families its the most important thing in the world to us.

Tubby understood that but even after 14 years here it seems Cal doesn't.

Here's the clip for anyone interested:

View embedded media

Class Act!

 

[kywildcat41086]

Tubby might not have recruited like we wanted, had UK type of results, but he never missed the tournament 2 times, got beat by an 15 seed or 14 seed and had a 9-16 record!!!

 

[ukfan1622]

Tubby's a fine man and there's not one ounce of arrogance in him. He should always be remembered by the fanbase with respect and gratitude, IMO.

I agree that Tubby has been a fine man but he was not without arrogance. The reason he didn't go after many top
recruits was because he thought he was a good enough coach to not need them. He was wrong about that...

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Tubby won 5 postseason games (SEC tourney and NCAA combined) in his last two seasons at UK.

Cal has only won 1 in the same amount of time.

This is how weird the UK basketball world has gotten.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Don’t tell Louis-Skunt or UKBball4ever this. They HATE Tubby. HATE

 

[Tubbyfan78]

Don’t tell Louis-Skunt or UKBball4ever this. They HATE Tubby. HATE

If a person still hates Tubby, then they are exactly what the media says we all were. It’s long over and the dude was class. There’s only one reason left to still be angry.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

If a person still hates Tubby, then they are exactly what the media says we all were. It’s long over and the dude was class. There’s only one reason left to still be angry.

That ukbbfan4ever guy claimed Billy G was an improvement over Tubby. I’m not joking.

 

[AGEE11]

This just kills me. It's one of perpetual false slanders of the anti-Tubby crowd. If you think 03-04-05 were a decline from 00-01-02, you weren't watching. Tubby's tenure was up-and-down like that that of most coaches. Had the '05 Cats gone to the Final Four, I suspect Tubby would never have left at the end of '07, and he was one uncalled foul away from that. (The foul on Sparks' 3 at the end of regulation. If that had been called, Cats win. Sparks didn't miss free throws in those circumstances. Ask Louisville)

I get what you're saying and agree.

Same can be said for Cal.

If the shot clock was called correctly in 2015 Cal gets another title.

If Higgins doesn't screw us over in 2017 he gets another Final Four minimum (we were the best team end of year and would have won it all I think) [Also wouldn't have had the Roofer Pooper incident and we may not have lost even more calls with refs]

If Auburn doesn't get 9+ minutes of fouling immunity in 2019, another Final Four and potential title.

I am with you that Tubby had a Final 4 stolen against MSU. But Cal has had 1-2 titles and 2 Final Fours as well.

As bad as the last 4 years have been, he would have a lot more leeway if refs hadn't screwed him those 3 times.

However, Tubby didn't get the call and left gracefully (man is a serious CLASS act). Cal didn't get the calls I mentioned and I wish he was man enough to do the same (or take the ambassador role)

 

[chevyman 50]

Tubby did not get many 5 stars players but back in those days many stuck around for 3 or 4 yrs Tubby was a good person and had great integrity.

 

[KMKAT]

Drew is 10 times the recruiter that Tubby was.
Tubby was historically bad. By far the worst recruiter to ever coach UK.
You would need a whole new thread to go over all of Tubby 's recruiting mishaps, misses, and mis- evaluations.

No BillyG was a worse recruiter and its no even close.

 

[Bluesbrother]

I agree that Tubby has been a fine man but he was not without arrogance. The reason he didn't go after many top
recruits was because he thought he was a good enough coach to not need them. He was wrong about that...

IMO, that's not true at all ... that's just an opinion, which happens to be wrong and maybe fits a narrative.

 

[ukfan1622]

IMO, that's not true at all ... that's just an opinion, which happens to be wrong and maybe fits a narrative.

Gosh, man I never stated it as a fact; of course it's an opinion. As an opinion I don't see how
you can call it wrong without some facts to back it up or that's just another opinion.

And I was the happiest person in the world when Tubby got hired and still think he's a fine man so what narrative are you speaking about? Just curious; I really didn't understand what you were trying to say there...

 

[Bluesbrother]

Gosh, man I never stated it as a fact; of course it's an opinion. As an opinion I don't see how
you can call it wrong without some facts to back it up or that's just another opinion.

And I was the happiest person in the world when Tubby got hired and still think he's a fine man so what narrative are you speaking about? Just curious; I really didn't understand what you were trying to say there...

Tubby is not arrogant. I've met him in a very random setting while he was still coaching. The man was as genuine as any person I've ever known to the point I was actually surprised by it. I would say he recruited players that he thought best suited his coaching style but I can't imagine he made a decision because he didn't need the uber talented player because of his superior coaching abilities allowed him to go after the average players talent-wise and still win. Tubby's coaching style, IMO, didn't fit with many talented players and simply didn't express and interest playing for him. That all I was saying ... just not "arrogance" from Tubby.

 

[saxonburgcat]

IMO, that's not true at all ... that's just an opinion, which happens to be wrong and maybe fits a narrative.

I don't know if it fits or not but when Saul was at Memphis he said that their philosophy of recruiting was to offer and if it wasn't accepted immediately they would move on to the next player. To me, that does sound quite arrogant and stupid at the same time. Of course, not long after he said that, Tubby was fired. I have to believe that kind of public comment was not well received.

 

[ukfan1622]

Tubby is not arrogant. I've met him in a very random setting while he was still coaching. The man was as genuine as any person I've ever known to the point I was actually surprised by it. I would say he recruited players that he thought best suited his coaching style but I can't imagine he made a decision because he didn't need the uber talented player because of his superior coaching abilities allowed him to go after the average players talent-wise and still win. Tubby's coaching style, IMO, didn't fit with many talented players and simply didn't express and interest playing for him. That all I was saying ... just not "arrogance" from Tubby.

Well, I already knew Tubby wasn't a dick to people but he won at Tulsa and Georgia without any high five star recruits and he had very little contact with most of them at UK so I assumed he thought he didn't need them.

Just because a coach isn't an ahole to other people does not mean they aren't arrogant about their coaching ability; most of them are arrogant about that. Pretty much all of them think their way of doing things is the best way; otherwise they'd be doing something else.

 

[Bluesbrother]

Well, I already knew Tubby wasn't a dick to people but he won at Tulsa and Georgia without any high five star recruits and he had very little contact with most of them at UK so I assumed he thought he didn't need them.

Just because a coach isn't an ahole to other people does not mean they aren't arrogant about their coaching ability; most of them are arrogant about that. Pretty much all of them think their way of doing things is the best way; otherwise they'd be doing something else.

Generally, people that are arrogant ARE dicks. It's a little more difficult to recruit 5-stars to Tulsa and Georgia, don't you think? I really don't know what your point is except you must believe that all coaches are arrogant assholes. If that's what it is ... fine, that's on you. Enjoy your day.

 

[ukfan1622]

I really don't know what your point is except you must believe that all coaches are arrogant assholes.

I really don't know what your point is except you must believe that all coaches are arrogant assholes. If that's what it is ... fine, that's on you. Enjoy your day.

In the post you started quoting me from I said I think Tubby if a fine man and if you had read many of my post
you'd know I feel the same way about John Calipari, apart from coaching. Nothing I said was false but I never implied or said any of the garbage you're trying to put into my mouth.

Don't have a nice day; go to hell instead.