Why doesn't Cal play zone defense?

[Big_Blue79]

Because it's not a panacea to all problems, and it requires practice time, which is a finite resource. Here's some other things I wish Cal would spend more time on (if time was unlimited): out of bounds plays, swing offense, pick and roll D, 3/4 court trapping, FTs, 3 point shooting, boxing out, dribbling, beating a press, pick and roll O, jump balls, Oklahoma drills, weight lifting, and coordinated bench cheers (have you seen Monmouth's bench?).

Guys, we lost our starting PG (twin1), SG (twin2), SF (Lyles), PF (WCS), C (Towns), backup C (Dakari), and backup SG (Booker) to the NBA. Returning are our backup PG (Ulis), injured SF (Poy), backup PF (Lee), third string PG (Hawkins), and 4th string PF (Willis). And people here insist that if we just spent the practice time on learning multiple defenses, we'd be 1) good enough with both that we'd be good, and 2) there would be no resulting decrease in other areas. That's a pretty hefty assumption, because last I checked a zone requires coordination between teammates and an awareness of how to play zone. It's not a 5 minutes in practice thing.

 

[BourbonBalz]

He desperately needs to incorporate some zone defense in his teams. That isn't in question.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Igh school teams play zone. I played every type of zone that exists. All of UK's players played some zone in high school. I guarantee it. Does it take practice? Of course, but every other college team seems to e able to do it.

 

[Re2126]

He's stubborn and it goes against his thinking.

If he ever plays zone for more than a possession or two in a game, that's a sign he's giving up on the team.

 

[kybassfan]

He desperately needs to incorporate some zone defense in his teams. That isn't in question.

Yeah it is. If you struggle with man to man, you will die playing zone. If you have trouble rotating and switching off man to man, you are pretty much incapable of playing zone. If the other team is shooting well from outside and/or passing well, a zone will allow them to capitalize on those strengths. If your biggest problem is not moving your feet, you can not cover an area.

We have problems in all of these areas. Our zone would be worse than what we have now.

 

[3rex]

Yeah it is. If you struggle with man to man, you will die playing zone. If you have trouble rotating and switching off man to man, you are pretty much incapable of playing zone. If the other team is shooting well from outside and/or passing well, a zone will allow them to capitalize on those strengths. If your biggest problem is not moving your feet, you can not cover an area.

We have problems in all of these areas. Our zone would be worse than what we have now.

ridiculous on every level

 

[Re2126]

I think they switch fine more often than not. Problem is there is plenty of video showing who to take advantage of on the switch. Any coach worth a few bucks can figure out how to exploit the switch easily against some of the "D" several of our guys play.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Igh school teams play zone. I played every type of zone that exists. All of UK's players played some zone in high school. I guarantee it. Does it take practice? Of course, but every other college team seems to e able to do it.

Comparing "every other college team" (which is a BS claim, but why argue with subtlety and accuracy when you can argue with absolutes that are made up?) to a UK team that lost, what 7 rotation players and is starting an entirely new lineup is not a valid comparison. So, please, point out these teams that lost almost all their players and are successfully playing zone and man to man. Please, the teams that lost 7/10 guys that are playing multiple defenses and doing them both well.

Yeah it is. If you struggle with man to man, you will die playing zone. If you have trouble rotating and switching off man to man, you are pretty much incapable of playing zone. If the other team is shooting well from outside and/or passing well, a zone will allow them to capitalize on those strengths. If your biggest problem is not moving your feet, you can not cover an area.

We have problems in all of these areas. Our zone would be worse than what we have now.

No, don't you know that the zone is magical and solves all problems? Just a few minutes in practice each session and BAM! great defense. Your context and facts are not welcome on this board, at least after losses.

 

[kybassfan]

No, don't you know that the zone is magical and solves all problems? Just a few minutes in practice each session and BAM! great defense. Your context and facts are not welcome on this board, at least after losses.

LOL. You got a point.

 

[kybassfan]

ridiculous on every level

I'm sure zone made your grade school team better.

 

[UK90]

Old dogs. New tricks. Can't teach.

Cal's ALWAYS been anti-zone. ALWAYS been a proponent of no-pressing no-zone simple hard nosed straight half-court man to man defense. That approach has helped give him a fabulously successful career with mega-millions in his bank account, so he ain't changing it now.

 

[crestcat]

Because it's not a panacea to all problems, and it requires practice time, which is a finite resource. Here's some other things I wish Cal would spend more time on (if time was unlimited): out of bounds plays, swing offense, pick and roll D, 3/4 court trapping, FTs, 3 point shooting, boxing out, dribbling, beating a press, pick and roll O, jump balls, Oklahoma drills, weight lifting, and coordinated bench cheers (have you seen Monmouth's bench?).

Guys, we lost our starting PG (twin1), SG (twin2), SF (Lyles), PF (WCS), C (Towns), backup C (Dakari), and backup SG (Booker) to the NBA. Returning are our backup PG (Ulis), injured SF (Poy), backup PF (Lee), third string PG (Hawkins), and 4th string PF (Willis). And people here insist that if we just spent the practice time on learning multiple defenses, we'd be 1) good enough with both that we'd be good, and 2) there would be no resulting decrease in other areas. That's a pretty hefty assumption, because last I checked a zone requires coordination between teammates and an awareness of how to play zone. It's not a 5 minutes in practice thing.

If Cal is going to stick with man defense, I wish to hell he would teach these guys to play it.

 

[3rex]

I'm sure zone made your grade school team better.

Lets see, I can go with your ignorant take, or I can go with the fact that basically 99% of coaches at the D1 level, the d2 level, naia, juco, high school, all at the very least have some type zone in their arsenal either as an integral part of their overall defensive philosophy or as a way to change the look or pace, or to stem a run, clog lanes, etc...

hmmmm...who do I go with? bass? actual coaches?

tough decision

 

[LightningCats]

Actually, zone defense would add a great change of pace to this team. Not saying to play it every possession or even for significant stretches at a time, but using it one out of every ten possessions will force the opposition to alter their offense at least for a few seconds. Most importantly, 5 to 10 possessions each game, you would diminish the foul possibilities.

We could definitely use an additional 5 to 10 "fouls" on this team.

 

[spotter34]

I think Cal views playing a zone defense as rewarding the guys for not buckling down and putting in the effort that is required to play man-2-man. You want to play in the league then learn how to play the ONLY defense they CAN play in the league. Cal's not going to reward lack of effort, even if it means losing. Is that the right way to handle it? I don't know and he may not feel this way, but I would bet this is accurate.

 

[kybassfan]

Lets see, I can go with your ignorant take, or I can go with the fact that basically 99% of coaches at the D1 level, the d2 level, naia, juco, high school, all at the very least have some type zone in their arsenal either as an integral part of their overall defensive philosophy or as a way to change the look or pace, or to stem a run, clog lanes, etc...

hmmmm...who do I go with? bass? actual coaches?

tough decision

It'd almost be worth the loss just to hear you whine when it failed and it would fail.

 

[LightningCats]

I think Cal views playing a zone defense as rewarding the guys for not buckling down and putting in the effort that is required to play man-2-man. You want to play in the league then learn how to play the ONLY defense they CAN play in the league. Cal's not going to reward lack of effort, even if it means losing. Is that the right way to handle it? I don't know and he may not feel this way, but I would bet this is accurate.

You are incorrect. Currently, zone defenses are allowed in the NBA. The only stipulation is that a player can not remain in the lane for more than 3 seconds or they will receive a defensive three second violation.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Lets see, I can go with your ignorant take, or I can go with the fact that basically 99% of coaches at the D1 level, the d2 level, naia, juco, high school, all at the very least have some type zone in their arsenal either as an integral part of their overall defensive philosophy or as a way to change the look or pace, or to stem a run, clog lanes, etc...

hmmmm...who do I go with? bass? actual coaches?

tough decision

Wow, you sure have surveyed a lot of coaches to come up with a 99% number - D1, D2, NAIA, Juco, High School (mine only used man to man ). Did you also scout out the NBADL? Spanish League? Greeks? What about China? Argentina? Or did you make up that number? Why not just say it's been your experience that most have a zone?

 

[spotter34]

You are incorrect. Currently, zone defenses are allowed in the NBA. The only stipulation is that a player can not remain in the lane for more than 3 seconds or they will receive a defensive three second violation.

Well, the NBA calls that a zone but it's not like they play it in college, and most of the good NBA teams play strictly man. But you're correct they do allow a type of zone defense in "the league".

 

[Big_Blue79]

You are incorrect. Currently, zone defenses are allowed in the NBA. The only stipulation is that a player can not remain in the lane for more than 3 seconds or they will receive a defensive three second violation.

Teams are allowed to play zone, but almost never do. The real benefit to teams from that rule change was the end of the illegal defense, which allows these 5-guys-on-a-string defenses (ala Thibs, Warriors, etc...) to thrive. It's also led to a premium on spacing, decrease is the value of post play (easier to deny entry passes), and opened up the game.

 

[3rex]

Wow, you sure have surveyed a lot of coaches to come up with a 99% number - D1, D2, NAIA, Juco, High School (mine only used man to man ). Did you also scout out the NBADL? Spanish League? Greeks? What about China? Argentina? Or did you make up that number? Why not just say it's been your experience that most have a zone?

no, that's ok. I'll stick with 99%

Thanks for the advice though...

 

[kybassfan]

no, that's ok. I'll stick with 99%

Thanks for the advice though...

No point in letting facts get in the way.

 

[cats2010]

Because it's not a panacea to all problems, and it requires practice time, which is a finite resource. Here's some other things I wish Cal would spend more time on (if time was unlimited): out of bounds plays, swing offense, pick and roll D, 3/4 court trapping, FTs, 3 point shooting, boxing out, dribbling, beating a press, pick and roll O, jump balls, Oklahoma drills, weight lifting, and coordinated bench cheers (have you seen Monmouth's bench?).

Guys, we lost our starting PG (twin1), SG (twin2), SF (Lyles), PF (WCS), C (Towns), backup C (Dakari), and backup SG (Booker) to the NBA. Returning are our backup PG (Ulis), injured SF (Poy), backup PF (Lee), third string PG (Hawkins), and 4th string PF (Willis). And people here insist that if we just spent the practice time on learning multiple defenses, we'd be 1) good enough with both that we'd be good, and 2) there would be no resulting decrease in other areas. That's a pretty hefty assumption, because last I checked a zone requires coordination between teammates and an awareness of how to play zone. It's not a 5 minutes in practice thing.

Not enough time...BS....it doesn't take that much time. These aren't 6 year olds starting from scratch. Self indicated how little time they had spent on the triangle and two but had spent at least a little on it and look how effective that was against us. He was not afraid to switch and try something different because what they were doing was not working and not going to win them the game. What an amazing F'ing concept.

Our 2014 team sucked playing man. For some odd reason that was the only season I can recall that cal allowed that team to play more zone than normal. And that team actually zoned better than man. So when we miracle shoot ourselves into the championship game against a team that struggles against the zone, what do we do. Come out and play man for the first 15 minutes and watch uconn run layup drills and build a 16 point lead before switching to a defense that team played better and that uconn struggled with.

Coaching is difficult but sometimes coaches are their own worst enemy, none more so than cal.

 

[qwesley]

Switched over to WVU v IA St after our game. Cyclones may be the best offensive team in the country and Ames is a very tough place to play, Huggins switched to a matchup zone late and took them out of rhythm to get the upset. And he may have the dumbest team on the planet. And does anyone think KU practices a triangle and 2 much?

The straight line drives are killing us.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Not enough time...BS....it doesn't take that much time. These aren't 6 year olds starting from scratch. Self indicated how little time they had spent on the triangle and two but had spent at least a little on it and look how effective that was against us. He was not afraid to switch and try something different because what they were doing was not working and not going to win them the game. What an amazing F'ing concept.

Our 2014 team sucked playing man. For some odd reason that was the only season I can recall that cal allowed that team to play more zone than normal. And that team actually zoned better than man. So when we miracle shoot ourselves into the championship game against a team that struggles against the zone, what do we do. Come out and play man for the first 15 minutes and watch uconn run layup drills and build a 16 point lead before switching to a defense that team played better and that uconn struggled with.

Coaching is difficult but sometimes coaches are their own worst enemy, none more so than cal.

Sure, but practice time is still a finite resource. And when you're essentially starting over with a brand new team, that practice time is even more valuable because there is more to teach.

A writer's summation of an interview with Coach K from the late 1980s:

I wanted to know why K refused to play anything other than man as his base defense. He patiently explained that his man-to-man was so flexible that he didn't need to use zone. He argued that he could play a sluffing man-to-man that was virtually indistinguishable from a zone. But by sticking to variations of the man, he could spend his practice time drilling man-to-man principles into his players. Zone required different fundamentals. He would rather play one defense very well and play multiple defenses mediocrely.