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When the dust settles on Thursday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Calsarmy

Sophomore
Jul 24, 2013
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I know its been a rough few weeks on the recruiting front and we all know the "Kentucky" history and sometimes we just expect no matter the situtation we always expect the worst.

I admit ive been surprised, even shocked at the number of de-commits.

Having said that I know no one works harder at recruiting than the UK staff. There has to be something going on behind the scenes that has caused this result. Not sure if Coach will be standing on a mountian top to tell us, but it really is the question of the day among my fellow UK football fans at the moment.

Hard to imagine that one recruit could cause a snowball effect. Maybe it was the finish, whatever Id love to know.
 
I would add one thing. In the end we have been involved in a lot of classless recruits this cycle. Sometimes you cant anticipate just how classless an individual can be till they have a chance to show who they really are as a person. We have seen it a few times in the last few weeks and wouldnt surprise me if we saw it today.
 
I'm still hoping that the class is going to turn out better than expected. I was hoping we could exceed the ranked class last year. I think with players we have coming back on the offensive side of the ball we will be ok, but I feel the 'D' has to upgraded.
 
I understand a kid changing his mind. I understand when 2-3 change their minds. What is odd is the number of kids who changed their minds in such a short period. I wonder what coaches are saying about us to make them do this. As to being classless, I agree and disagree. A kid can do it with class if they do it 2 months before signing day. When they do it 2 days before signing day..........well lets just leave it at that...
 
The lesson, at least for me, is that when the 2016 class starts getting committments, I will pay less attention to it until signing day. Committments, for the most part, mean very little.
 
Originally posted by Calsarmy:
I would add one thing. In the end we have been involved in a lot of classless recruits this cycle. Sometimes you cant anticipate just how classless an individual can be till they have a chance to show who they really are as a person. We have seen it a few times in the last few weeks and wouldnt surprise me if we saw it today.
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Ah c'mon. Kids are kids, they are all dumb & clueless.

point fingers where they belong - the kids parents/parent who ought to teach & direct their children to behave in a class respectful manner, their HS coach who should instruct them also.

And rival college coaches who have been negatively recruiting their asses off against UK. All the decommits were still fine with going with UK even after the 6 game losing streak back in december. Come January & the end of the dark period, the negative putting down of UK went into full effect.

hence why Stoops, a former opponent of it, is now in favor of early signing period
 
It does seem that there has been an inordinate amount of flips from UK. IMO it is because UK is going after a better grade of recruits. Recruits that the perennial top team are going after to fill out their recruited classes once they discover that they are not going to get the players that were their first choices. A lot of these kids are going to their home state schools that would have been their first choice if they had been offered. Lets call it the going home to Mama effect.
 
I don't understand committing to a school and still taking official visits in most scenarios.
 
Originally posted by ukbob:
The lesson, at least for me, is that when the 2016 class starts getting committments, I will pay less attention to it until signing day. Committments, for the most part, mean very little.
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I made that vow about five years ago, saved me a lot of time. Don't really pay much attention at all until after regular season is over with
 
Being a long time (suffering) UK football fan, even at its worst I really dont remember anything like this happening like this to this level.

And at the end of the day it is what it is and you have to move on and make the best of it. I guess my question would be what are those flips being told.

Personally I think Coach is on the right path, I just cant figure out why these massive numbers of flips.

Anyway, here is also hoping we pick up a few of our own the next few days and the 15 or so we have a some pretty good recruits.
 
WE have 15 commits currently? How many are we allowed to sign, 25? Where do we get the other 10?
 
Combination of all of that. Almost the prefect storm against us. Recruiting is all about buzz and we had it in buckets the last two years with zero on the filed success. We lost some of the buzz with our finish and then some more when Harris chose elsewhere. Stoops and Co. did build a reputation for getting higher quality guys and when the big boys are looking to fill out their remaining spots we were target number one for poaching. Good prospects, momentum down, prospects vulnerable, POUNCE.

At end the Lions start chasing the pack to see what they can get and this year we were the gazelle that tore their ACL and got caught.
 
Originally posted by wyldkatzky:
I don't understand committing to a school and still taking official visits in most scenarios.
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Think about it. You're 17 years old and get a chance to go visit just about any 5 colleges you want across the country for free. I don't blame them, I'd do it too.

I don't think flipping just before signing day is classless either. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind, last I checked this was still America. Is it classless when recruits flip to UK? I didn't think so.
 
Originally posted by C1180:
It does seem that there has been an inordinate amount of flips from UK. IMO it is because UK is going after a better grade of recruits. Recruits that the perennial top team are going after to fill out their recruited classes once they discover that they are not going to get the players that were their first choices. A lot of these kids are going to their home state schools that would have been their first choice if they had been offered. Lets call it the going home to Mama effect.
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Mama effect didn't work well for UK re the Running Back Who Shall Remain Nameless.
 
I agree that a 17-18 year old kid can change his mind. My real issue is on player in particular. You dont make up your mind in October and not tell a soul that your going to stiff them and then spend most of your weekends there enjoying the big life. He knew and then had the gall to invite UK football players to his announcement knowing he was going to humilate them. No that kid in particular was classless to the highest degree.

Stoops was the only honest broker there.
 
Dinson didn't stay close to Momma. Or the Twins.

Negative. Recruiting.
 
1) Higher level recruits. Means more of the big boys are now calling after whiffing on their 5* targets. Makes it harder to hold on.

2) Negative recruiting. Pretty easy when we lose our last 6, without being competitive in some of the games. Throw in the fact that most commits came when we were hot, and these decommitments start making a lot more sense.

3) Perceived resurgence of the big 10. Whether UK fans want to admit or not, OSU winning makes a difference. Combine that with Harbaugh, MSU, Wisconsin, and now PSU too; and its a problem. Especially considering we've made recruiting in Big 10 country a priority.
 
Re: When the dust settles on Thursday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[/URL]fballcats76 posted on 2/2/2015...


WE have 15 commits currently? How many are we allowed to sign, 25? Where do we get the other 10?









Just stop already. Either you're clueless or you're a troll. Maybe you're both.
 
I don't think it's too difficult to figure...
Stoops 1st two years he sold PT... Now he's got to sell the program three years into his tenure and opposing coaches are using UK's lack of on-field success against us... When you close out with six losses, it is what it is... It don't matter who you played cause it's going to be pretty much the same six again next year and the year after that... When and if we win then the sell becomes real... Until we begin to make a statement by the number of wins, who we beat, and how we play then all the negatives that are UK football past and present are going to used against us... But there is good news... The guys decommitting are good players. Some rated very good... They're leaving us or choosing to go to decent programs... This is a bit different than in years past....

Face it...some kids don't like putting something together. They like ready-to-go....
I think there are great ball players out there who like and accept the challenge of building. We need to do a better job of indentifying them perhaps. Maybe the Stoops recruiting model just needs a bit of tweaking... I'm still good with Stoops... And wanting to see improvement but am not going to let my definition of improvment be solely defined by the W-L record.

If you want to win the war better be ready to loose a few battles. It's going to happen.
 
We have been going after a higher level recruit the past 2 years and that makes it tougher to land them.Our 0-6 record and bowl miss last year didn't help,if we had won another game last season and played(and maybe won) a bowl game we would have kept some of the guys we lost.Say what ever makes you feel better but the last half of the year was a big factor,we had our chances but we didn't get it done.We are in a position to change that this year,I hope we do.
 
Originally posted by JHB4UK:
Dinson didn't stay close to Momma. Or the Twins.

Negative. Recruiting.
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The mama I was referring to was their home state university not their mother. There is no doubt that there was negative recruiting and probably outright cheating in some situations where the flipping wasn't to their home state school that they were likely life long fans of.

There is no doubt that Harris played UK but he never committed. That should have been a loud alarm to the UK coaching staff and all of us fans. I was never satisfied that he would go to UK. It was always my belief if he was truly going to UK he would have committed earlier and tried to get some top recruits to come with him. Who can really blame the kid for going to Alabama to play with the number one rated class. He evidently was in no way a big UK fan and he never came across to me as a big UK fan. I have more of a beef with those that committed and stayed committed for months then flipped a week or two before signing day than I do with Harris who never committed and never said that he was going to UK. All he ever said was UK had a chance. It looks that that was a very slim chance from the start.

If the staff was counting on Harris signing with UK IMO they were not reading the signs correctly. IMO the chances were slim to none. He was flirting with the big boys from the beginning. Michigan, OSU ,and Alabama were UKs competition. How many times have we beat out any of those three for a recruit even an in state recruit.
 
In all honesty, with the way the system works, I don't blame a kid for making a verbal commitment early. So, I am a recruit who has some interest from major programs, but no offers yet and a school like Kentucky offers me. I feel like it's a good back-up plan in case one of the big boys doesn't come along, so I save my spot by giving a verbal commitment. I still keep my options open, knowing the worst thing to come out of this is playing at UK. All of a sudden, a big time school comes talking to me and I listen. I get what I perceive is a better offer, and I switch my commitment. I did the same thing when I was looking at colleges. I had my "back-up" school that I got accepted to waiting to see if I could get into a couple other schools I was interested in.

As for the early signing period, kids will just wait and not commit. I don't think that would change much at all.
 
Originally posted by robo222:
I don't think it's too difficult to figure...
Stoops 1st two years he sold PT... Now he's got to sell the program three years into his tenure and opposing coaches are using UK's lack of on-field success against us... When you close out with six losses, it is what it is... It don't matter who you played cause it's going to be pretty much the same six again next year and the year after that... When and if we win then the sell becomes real... Until we begin to make a statement by the number of wins, who we beat, and how we play then all the negatives that are UK football past and present are going to used against us... But there is good news... The guys decommitting are good players. Some rated very good... They're leaving us or choosing to go to decent programs... This is a bit different than in years past....

Face it...some kids don't like putting something together. They like ready-to-go....
I think there are great ball players out there who like and accept the challenge of building. We need to do a better job of indentifying them perhaps. Maybe the Stoops recruiting model just needs a bit of tweaking... I'm still good with Stoops... And wanting to see improvement but am not going to let my definition of improvment be solely defined by the W-L record.

If you want to win the war better be ready to loose a few battles. It's going to happen.
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Pretty much agree with this. UK's situation is a classic Catch-22...have to have good players to win, have to win to get good players. And you have to make plays to win games. What we're seeing is unprecedented IMO and will continue until UK starts winning football games.
 
IMHO, big difference between keeping commitments last year vs this year is last year we had a recruit with the leadership skills and charisma to help hold the class together. This year it seems that no recruit has stood out and continued to pitch UK to his fellow recruits.
 
Originally posted by bthaunert:
In all honesty, with the way the system works, I don't blame a kid for making a verbal commitment early. So, I am a recruit who has some interest from major programs, but no offers yet and a school like Kentucky offers me. I feel like it's a good back-up plan in case one of the big boys doesn't come along, so I save my spot by giving a verbal commitment. I still keep my options open, knowing the worst thing to come out of this is playing at UK. All of a sudden, a big time school comes talking to me and I listen. I get what I perceive is a better offer, and I switch my commitment. I did the same thing when I was looking at colleges. I had my "back-up" school that I got accepted to waiting to see if I could get into a couple other schools I was interested in.

As for the early signing period, kids will just wait and not commit. I don't think that would change much at all.
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Exactly correct. Commit early in the year to reserve a place, then have a great Senior season and the big boys come calling. It works in our favor for basketball, as many of Cal's top signees commit to us after their Senior season. If we had a job offer from Joe's Website, then GOOGLE came calling, who wouldn't make that change?
 
Recruits are just copying coaches. A coach takes a verbal and pulls it when he gets someone better. A recruit take his best offer and flips when he gets a better offer. This does not apply to all coaches or all recruits, but to many.
 
Originally posted by bthaunert:
In all honesty, with the way the system works, I don't blame a kid for making a verbal commitment early. So, I am a recruit who has some interest from major programs, but no offers yet and a school like Kentucky offers me. I feel like it's a good back-up plan in case one of the big boys doesn't come along, so I save my spot by giving a verbal commitment. I still keep my options open, knowing the worst thing to come out of this is playing at UK. All of a sudden, a big time school comes talking to me and I listen. I get what I perceive is a better offer, and I switch my commitment. I did the same thing when I was looking at colleges. I had my "back-up" school that I got accepted to waiting to see if I could get into a couple other schools I was interested in.

As for the early signing period, kids will just wait and not commit. I don't think that would change much at all.
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Agree 100%. This more than 'negative recruiting' (although I know it's out there) and/or 'cheating' by other schools.
Also agree with those who said a big factor was the six losses to end the season. A few of those where we played so poorly it looked like we just mailed it in. Also, agree with a couple that mentioned Harris. When out-of-state, highly rated recruits see where a real 5 star stud turns down his state school, who was showing up at a number of their games, who at least publicly was giving some lip service to that in-state school...then goes elsewhere...that would make me wonder if I was one of these recruits who are decommitting.
 
The situation at UK is likely to play out like it always has at UK and most schools that are not considered football powerhouses. The UK coaching staff must find players they can coach up, build up physically, and win with them before they will start to have much of a chance with the top recruits. That said a 6 game losing streak is not a good way to head into national signing day.

I think also losing Harris and a recruit or two backing out of commitment made some recruits that had other good options question the wisdom of going to UK and kind of opened a floodgate of defections. Some of these recruits were really just soft commitments and a lot wasn't needed to flip them.
 
Originally posted by dorkmeister:

I understand a kid changing his mind. I understand when 2-3 change their minds. What is odd is the number of kids who changed their minds in such a short period. I wonder what coaches are saying about us to make them do this. As to being classless, I agree and disagree. A kid can do it with class if they do it 2 months before signing day. When they do it 2 days before signing day..........well lets just leave it at that...
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You raise a helluva interesting question there. What is behind it? Opinions vary, but I don't believe it was the 6 losses. These players didn't chicken out because if a losing streak. When a player in the 2015 class commits to Kentucky, he knows Stoops is in his 2nd year trying to rebuild an SEC program against a tough schedule. Normally you don't wimp out on a bold decision like that just because your team loses some games they were not favored to win. Fans may be that naive, but few players are. When they commit to a school, they are looking for 5 years of education at a place where they like the coaches, and want to improve the program. Since a couple players de-commit every year, this could simply be a bad statistical variation in the plot of a yearly process that occurs at almost every school. Or there might be some unknown reason why negative recruiting tactics by other schools are more effective against Kentucky this winter. The moves by Naivar and Brown may have hurt our chances to hang onto these commitments. We know this was a factor with Riley. Also possible that some players had their offers pulled. That may have been a factor with Wells. We have 5 commitments from Ohio so far, compared to 10 last year. Wells, Stump, and the Dowell brothers were Vince Marrow recruits who decommitted. This has nothing to do with Jim Harbaugh. Several other Marrow recruits leaned to Kentucky at 1 point before committing somewhere else. I will watch these last 10 scholarships to see how much of a factor Marrow will be in closing out the class. Don't know what might be going on with him, but this evidence suggests something could be.
 
Blue Decade brings up a very interesting point about Marrow that I had not thought about. Maybe there is something going on from the Marrow end with the indecision at a critical time with Michigan. Who knows but interesting point had not thought about.

Now to address the kid from Madison and his lack of a verbal along the way. All true. He never did give us a verbal at any point to the best of my knowledge.

What he did know was that he was maybe the most important recruit in Stoops reign. He knew Stoops was doing any and everything possible to recruit this kid night and day. The kid knew it for at a minimum of 18 months. He spent all sort of time at UK over the summer socially. The UK players wrongly thought he was a friend through all this. During the season the kid spends many weekend on his own enjoying the college life. Went to maybe a 1/2 dozen games. And truthfully if at that point he had decided he was going to AL I would have been disappointed but wished him well. Instead in an off the cuff remark at his announcement he claims he knew he was going to AL in October.

Didnt pass along even the smallest hint in Oct that he had made up his mind. Instead he caused Coach to sit and wait on him and lose valued ground recruiting another back.

When he has his presser he even invites UK football players to the event so he can humiliate them as he walks out the door.

No forgiving the kid for any of the above. He did it to hurt us and that my friends is never to be forgiven.
 
Everyone has valid points on the process and the results of this year's recruiting class. When Neal Brown moved on to Troy, none of us know how many potential recruits were associated with his offensive plans. Craig Naivar had some credentials, but the journeyman coach somehow didn't seem to fit the SEC and has moved on to Houston. Vince Marrow possibly moving to Michigan likely caused some recruits pause in their decisions. Losing six games on a back loaded schedule also had an effect. An offensive line that was unable to play big boy football made a statement as well. I think these "flips" were a result of several issues that seemed to be part of the process.

Still, two plays at Florida and Louisville were all that separated a 7-5 season from 5-7 we experienced. As has been stated before, CMS needs to close out those games were playmakers decide a win or a loss. We should make 6-6 or 7-5 next season and recruiting will improve. This process of rebuilding once again from the scrap heap of the SEC is not for the weak or the impatient.

While Rich Brooks gave us hope from a horrible near death penalty probation, CMS gives us a young head coach with a solid staff and soon to be facilities second to none in the nation to turn things around becoming an honest to goodness SEC football program.

Bill Snyder, Frank Beamer, Barry Alvarez, Bill McCartney, Mike Stoops, Dan Mullens and others have been down this road of working 24/7, 16-17 hours a day and sacrificing everything to develop the will to win. CMS is doing the same.

In this internet world of instant gratification and "I want it now," the recruiting process becomes more pronounced and stressful. The best we can do is stay the course and support CMS all the way.
 
One criticism I might have for Stoops is that perhaps he should have been more aggressive in finding and hiring the replacement of Brown and Navar (still open, with only 1 name rumored as a candidate). Dawson didn't even talk to the press until almost mid January, and hasn't since. Riley & Strowbridge were Navar guys, more should have been done possibly to pick up Navar's recruiting to keep them in the fold.
 
The stunning success of the Big Ten in the Bowl season this year had a lot to do with it. They had bar none the best bowl season season since they went to multiple bowls in 1976.
 
I don't see the kids as classless. They are making a decision that is huge in their lives. People change their mind all the time about what college they want to go to. Fans of teams just need to stop with the loser's mentality and accept whatever decisions these guys make.
 
Originally posted by JHB4UK:
One criticism I might have for Stoops is that perhaps he should have been more aggressive in finding and hiring the replacement of Brown and Navar (still open, with only 1 name rumored as a candidate). Dawson didn't even talk to the press until almost mid January, and hasn't since. Riley & Strowbridge were Navar guys, more should have been done possibly to pick up Navar's recruiting to keep them in the fold.
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Stoops is more interested than anyone in the long term growth and improvement of his program. He has taken the time he needed to hire right. Dawson was involved with preparing WV for a bowl. Rushing a coordinator hire would be a bad move all around for the future. And talking to the press is not a measurement of recruiting activity. You can't talk to the press about recruiting. Naivar recruited Kengera Daniel, who will be an important player for us. Losing Naivar cost us Riley and may have contributed to other decommits. Losing Brown and Naivar hurt our class, but that doesn't mean a couple of quick hires would have fixed it. A couple of factors lined up to destabilize the class. Brown and Naivar leaving. Marrow's brief flirtation with Michigan. Because of an improving roster, a little bit less chance this year to make an early impact on on the field than Stoops' 2014 class got. We tried to recruit a higher caliber of player. At the end of the season, some flipped because they could. I don't get Strowbridge flipping to UNC. Something going on there that isn't clear yet. But I sure get why Dinson flipped to Auburn, Stump and Hamilton to Ohio State, Dowell brothers to Michigan State. These are tough programs to recruit against, and we will lose some of these battles. I get why we could not beat Alabama for Harris or Oklahoma for Miller, although it says something that we almost got both. It says something that Westry picked is over Auburn, Richardson picked us over Louisville, Asafo-Adjei and Walker picked us over Florida. I get why fans are upset now, but I think most are wrong about the reasons this is happening. With patience, our fans will see improvement on the field every year Stoops is here. But we will never win every single recruiting battle. No coach does. Time to put on the big boy pants, that's what our coach is doing.
 
Hopes and dreams of playing time will no longer cut it with recruiting for this staff. We need to win football games so they can sell progress and being a part of something special. And next year the winning begins in a big way.
 
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