Whats the point of multi year players here?

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Without someone on the staff who is really good at coaching shooting, what is the point of having multi year guys here at UK?

How many guys under Cal has improved in shooting the last 6 years?

What real improvements can guys like Hawkins, Poythress, or Lee have at UK when no one is an expert in shooting?

Their future at making money is dependent on having some type of shooting to make defenders honest.

 

[2Dope15]

K

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

What I'm saying is for the sake of getting more titles under Cal, we need to make UK aware we need a shooting coach on staff. Barbee will probably take another head coaching job soon and last thing we need is just another recruiter.

it seems silly but if we can get enough people to talk about it, UK will hear it and at least think about it.

 

[Fadhi]

Players do not go from bad shooter to good shooter in college. You either have it or you don't. Guys get their shot more consistent when they are in the NBA since they literally have all day to practice it.
Cal recruiting shooters would be a more valid concern.. and he did with this upcoming class

 

[BostonCat2001]

Without someone on the staff who is really good at coaching shooting, what is the point of having multi year guys here at UK?

How many guys under Cal has improved in shooting the last 6 years?

What real improvements can guys like Hawkins, Poythress, or Lee have at UK when no one is an expert in shooting?

Their future at making money is dependent on having some type of shooting to make defenders honest.

false. you want this to be true to fit your agenda. but it is not

 

[kyboy1998]

I don't see any discernible improvement in Hawkins. He's the same guy that they inserted against Michigan as a freshman.

Lee is essentially the same with minutes now to create a stat line.

Willis is the same story as Lee.

Poythress has regressed and looks less skilled now than he did as a freshman.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Miller got better. Liggins got better. Jones shot better in year 2. Lamb was what he was, hard to improve on greatness. So there have been some examples. The problem with the guys you list is they are just not good shooters. Lee is never going to be a great scorer/shooter, and that would not matter anywhere. Poy is mr. enigma...and would not matter anywhere and he got hurt and that is hard to come back from. Hawkins? The guy is an atrocious shooter, yet you think Cal can magically make him not terrible? LOL.

The point is you have to have SOME TALENT offensively for a coach to improve you.

 

[WildMoon]

I do question some of the shooting stuff.

I saw Miller become really good. WCS did get much better shooter as well.

There are some example, but it's not as consistent as other aspect of Coach Cal's development.

I think Lee is better, but he didn't get that much better than he'll use it in real game situation. We saw him take some mid-range jumper during exhibition games. Then since the start of regular season he completely stopped.

So i see progress, but then there's clearly obvious lack of improvement in some players.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Briscoe was a decent shooter ..... watch the all star games from last spring. He's a horrible shooter now. Poythress came into UK being a decent shooter.

Matthews has a good form, Hawkins has good form. A really good shooting coach can work with that.

P.S. Willis is shooting good this year because his HIGH SCHOOL COACH noticed a flaw in his form . Its embarrassing that those things have to come from other places instead of our own expensive staff.

 

[JerseyCat84]

Eh, who needs shooting?

 

[Jkwo]

I don't see any discernible improvement in Hawkins. He's the same guy that they inserted against Michigan as a freshman.

Lee is essentially the same with minutes now to create a stat line.

Willis is the same story as Lee.

Poythress has regressed and looks less skilled now than he did as a freshman.

The last one is a fair point.

If you really believe that about Lee and Willis, you must be talking about Danny Lee and Marvin Willis. Or Rob Lee and Tom Willis. Or Perdeep Lee and Mohammed Willis.

Because I know you're not talking about Marcus Lee and Derek Willis, both of whom are productive players every minute on both ends on the court and who used to both look like deer in the headlights in between brief spurts of good play (or individual games like Marcus had against Michigan).

And no, Hawkins hasn't changed much - but his ceiling is only so high as a 6' unranked recruit who has zero scoring instincts for dealing with actual defenders (read - not KY high school level). He'd be a walk on if we didn't have the extra scholarships. He's a great defender and doesn't turn the ball over who Cal throws in for 10 minutes a game. Not sure what more you can expect. Just because he's stocky and athletic doesn't mean that Cal should be able to turn him into Eric Bledsoe any more than Cal can turn Skal into Dirk Novitzki because they're both 7' and good shooters - you can only expect someone to turn into the best version of themselves, both based on physical tools and what is between the ears.

And the best version of Dominique ain't a significant scorer at the D1 level.

 

[WildMoon]

But for me the bigger issue is offense/defense sets for multi-year player.

Think about it, it's difficult just teaching 1 set of offense/defense. Coach Cal has to teach basic defensive/offensive points to these kids. Since our freshmen are usually the better players, he has to put huge emphasis on basic.

I'm wondering players like Willis lose out on developing bigger basketball knowledge because we always go back to basic every year.

 

[BostonCat2001]

Briscoe was a decent shooter ..... watch the all star games from last spring. He's a horrible shooter now. Poythress came into UK being a decent shooter.

Matthews has a good form, Hawkins has good form. A really good shooting coach can work with that.

P.S. Willis is shooting good this year because his HIGH SCHOOL COACH noticed a flaw in his form . Its embarrassing that those things have to come from other places instead of our own expensive staff.

when you are left to analyzing all star games...shows how desperate you are to prove your point

 

[BostonCat2001]

But for me the bigger issue is offense/defense sets for multi-year player.

Think about it, it's difficult just teaching 1 set of offense/defense. Coach Cal has to teach basic defensive/offensive points to these kids. Since our freshmen are usually the better players, he has to put huge emphasis on basic.

I'm wondering players like Willis lose out on developing bigger basketball knowledge because we always go back to basic every year.

basketball isnt that complicated. there are no hidden secrets to the game that coach cal and others hold back.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Screw football!!!

Miller got better. Liggins got better. Jones shot better in year 2. Lamb was what he was, hard to improve on greatness. So there have been some examples. The problem with the guys you list is they are just not good shooters. Lee is never going to be a great scorer/shooter, and that would not matter anywhere. Poy is mr. enigma...and would not matter anywhere and he got hurt and that is hard to come back from. Hawkins? The guy is an atrocious shooter, yet you think Cal can magically make him not terrible? LOL.

The point is you have to have SOME TALENT offensively for a coach to improve you.

You do realize these guys aren't born with SHOOTER DNA right? At some point each kid who is a good shooter had great coaching and repetitions .

Hawkins isnt a bad shooter. He has good form. Matthews has good form. With guys like that , the right drills and repetitions can turn them into good (not great) shooters... like 35% or so 3pt shooters type good.

 

[Bungalow Bill]

Shooting is improved by getting in the gym on your own time getting up hundreds of shots a day. This team has good shooters it just hasn't shown yet.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

when you are left to analyzing all star games...shows how desperate you are to prove your point

Wrong. All you can find to watch are the all star games. I saw some live streams of his games last year but I can't find any of those replays now.

You do know Briscoe changed his form over the summer right? I mean they talked about it during the combine 2 months ago. He wasn't this 10% jump shooter that he was now.

 

[Hoskins21]

Briscoe was a decent shooter ..... watch the all star games from last spring. He's a horrible shooter now. Poythress came into UK being a decent shooter.

Matthews has a good form, Hawkins has good form. A really good shooting coach can work with that.

P.S. Willis is shooting good this year because his HIGH SCHOOL COACH noticed a flaw in his form . Its embarrassing that those things have to come from other places instead of our own expensive staff.

Briscoe isn't what I would consider a decent shooter. An All-Star game (where little to no defense is played) is not the best way to analyze a player's game. Poythress was never a good shooter. You act as though players come here and forget how to shoot. Players don't need shooting coaches to learn how to shoot. Shooting can be self-taught and improved upon through repetition (practice). If players on this team want to improve their shooting, it's up to them to get in the gym and shoot. Coaches only get so many hours with their players.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Shooting is improved by getting in the gym on your own time getting up hundreds of shots a day. This team has good shooters it just hasn't shown yet.

Lmao. really? on their own? So how will guys like Briscoe ever improve at all if they are left to improve their shooting on their own? Are they supposed to google "how to shoot" and just imitate what they see on the screen?

players can get better by taking their instructions and shooting on their own but it can't just be all on their own. They have to have a coach showing them what to do.

 

[marshalfan]

Miller got better. Liggins got better. Jones shot better in year 2. Lamb was what he was, hard to improve on greatness. So there have been some examples. The problem with the guys you list is they are just not good shooters. Lee is never going to be a great scorer/shooter, and that would not matter anywhere. Poy is mr. enigma...and would not matter anywhere and he got hurt and that is hard to come back from. Hawkins? The guy is an atrocious shooter, yet you think Cal can magically make him not terrible? LOL.

The point is you have to have SOME TALENT offensively for a coach to improve you.

Jones actually shot worse from 3 and from the ft line his 2nd year. His 2 point percentage was better in year 2 because he didn't have to force as many due to better teammates.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Poythress was 14-33 from 3pt range his freshman year for 42%

 

[Hoskins21]

Lmao. really? on their own? So how will guys like Briscoe ever improve at all if they are left to improve their shooting on their own? Are they supposed to google "how to shoot" and just imitate what they see on the screen?

players can get better by taking their instructions and shooting on their own but it can't just be all on their own. They have to have a coach showing them what to do.

Actually, yes he can Google it if he wants to. Teaching yourself how to shoot isn't hard. I did it myself. You obviously have never worked or tried to improve upon something on your own.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Oh yeah .. Im just a giant azzhole for wanting to improve our staff. I mean I forgot that teams get worse with a shooting coach.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

I taught myself from watching UK players back in the day. But Jaycatz, not everyone is as bright enough to teach themselves or focused.

 

[Hoskins21]

Poythress was 14-33 from 3pt range his freshman year for 42%

That's a small sample size. That mean's he shot around 1 three a game. Do you think Cal forces his players to shoot worse?

 

[BostonCat2001]

You do realize these guys aren't born with SHOOTER DNA right? At some point each kid who is a good shooter had great coaching and repetitions .

Hawkins isnt a bad shooter. He has good form. Matthews has good form. With guys like that , the right drills and repetitions can turn them into good (not great) shooters... like 35% or so 3pt shooters type good.

Wrong. All you can find to watch are the all star games. I saw some live streams of his games last year but I can't find any of those replays now.

You do know Briscoe changed his form over the summer right? I mean they talked about it during the combine 2 months ago. He wasn't this 10% jump shooter that he was now.

he as a 29% 3 point shooter during his EYBL career. you are making stuff up.

draftexpress, a real professional basketball scout, has an evaluation on briscoe based on his game before collage. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Isaiah-Briscoe-7140/

watch the weakness part where it mentions his shooting and how his mechanics need work. i realize you sit on your coach and watch tv and youtube videos but i'll take his opinion over yours. please spare me the you played/coached crap.

 

[Hoskins21]

I taught myself from watching UK players back in the day. But Jaycatz, not everyone is as bright enough to teach themselves or focused.

If I could do it as a 14-year-old teenager, surely the many players on our team can do it as 18+ old men.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I don't know why it has to be explained continuously to a supposedly knowledgeable fanbase, but colleges do not have luxury of the kind of individualized instruction that the NBA does. We have so many hours we can use for practice. Outside of that, players have to work on shooting on their own.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Oh yeah .. Im just a giant azzhole for wanting to improve our staff. I mean I forgot that teams get worse with a shooting coach.

Not an azzhole, but just apparently uninformed if you think you have unlocked some truth nugget that Cal was unaware of. Or Barnhart. If you think you know more about player development, you are sadly mistaken. This isn't Cal's first rodeo, and some random fan is not going to have some brilliant insight that has somehoiw escaped him.

 

[Hoskins21]

I don't know why it has to be explained continuously to a supposedly knowledgeable fanbase, but colleges do not have luxury of the kind of individualized instruction that the NBA does. We have so many hours we can use for practice. Outside of that, players have to work on shooting on their own.

Yep. Many fans think they're able to work with coaches 24/7 and that's not the case. During Christmas break, there is no hours restriction. It's no coincidence that's the same time period at which our team improves the most.

 

[Xception]

If you play basketball then it should be a priority to learn how to shoot , some of these players get on the roster to appease a certain segment of the fan base . You can't expect a coach to give them abilities they just don't have , teach them technique all you want but until they develop depth perception it doesn't matter .

 

[BostonCat2001]

I don't know why it has to be explained continuously to a supposedly knowledgeable fanbase, but colleges do not have luxury of the kind of individualized instruction that the NBA does. We have so many hours we can use for practice. Outside of that, players have to work on shooting on their own.

because a good portion of these fans live in a box.

 

[Bungalow Bill]

Lmao. really? on their own? So how will guys like Briscoe ever improve at all if they are left to improve their shooting on their own? Are they supposed to google "how to shoot" and just imitate what they see on the screen?

players can get better by taking their instructions and shooting on their own but it can't just be all on their own. They have to have a coach showing them what to do.

Wow. You really are ignorant. The coaches work with them on their form during individual instruction if needed, then they put in the extra time on their own. Why do you think they all have keys to the Craft center? LMAO indeed. You obviously know very little about how to become a better shooter but as long your statements fit your agenda I guess you think they make sense.

 

[Xception]

One loss and we lose all abilities to coach , worst fan base in college .

 

[BostonCat2001]

One loss and we lose all abilities to coach , worst fan base in college .

yup...especially when you consider the success Cal has had. but you know...by watching old videos and teaching yourself...you can become an expert at all things basketball

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Jones actually shot worse from 3 and from the ft line his 2nd year. His 2 point percentage was better in year 2 because he didn't have to force as many due to better teammates.

Good point. Jones did improve overall though. And if we wanna go strictly on percentages Andrew Harrison improved his shooting from one year to the next.

And Briscoe is shooting 52% from the field this year, so he is not all bad at shooting. He is not going to shoot that bad overall because he knows how to take high percentage shots that NO TEAM can stop him from getting.

And I just cannot emphasize again how terrible a shooter Hawkins is. His career percentages show that at UK. I will give him props for the 6/9 from the FT line this year so far...that is about 27% more than his career percentage even from there.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Wow. You really are ignorant. The coaches work with them on their form during individual instruction if needed, then they put in the extra time on their own. Why do you think they all have keys to the Craft center? LMAO indeed. You obviously know very little about how to become a better shooter but as long your statements fit your agenda I guess you think they make sense.

Ignorant? I just said what you posted here....... You're original post said NOTHING about instructing the players then letting them use those techniques on their own. You just said for them to shoot on their own.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Shooting is recruited not taught

 

[Nubb16]

Well a few multi year players (Jones, Lamb, and Miller) are a big reason we won the title. Maybe they are here to help win titles?

 

[MegaBlue05]

Jump shots are either broken or they're not.

Holla at me when MKG starts shooting 40 percent from 3.