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Thought Duke boys were the good boys

OHIO COLONEL

OHIO COLONEL

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Feb 11, 2009
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Reading about Okafor. His fight the other night in Boston. But didn't know that he got into it in a bar back in October and had a gun pointed at his head, and was caught speeding on a bridge going 108 mph. 108 mph!! On a bridge!! Where police consider going 40 to be reckless driving. His 'handlers' have requested that the 76ers provide private security.
Listen to Vitale and ESPN all Duke players are squeaky-clean. Sounds like this one has some issues.
 
OHIO COLONEL said:
Reading about Okafor. His fight the other night in Boston. But didn't know that he got into it in a bar back in October and had a gun pointed at his head, and was caught speeding on a bridge going 108 mph. 108 mph!! On a bridge!! Where police consider going 40 to be reckless driving. His 'handlers' have requested that the 76ers provide private security.
Listen to Vitale and ESPN all Duke players are squeaky-clean. Sounds like this one has some issues.
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Hope they don't hire Towns as his security because he already showed he can't guard Okafor.
 
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OHIO COLONEL said:
Reading about Okafor. His fight the other night in Boston. But didn't know that he got into it in a bar back in October and had a gun pointed at his head, and was caught speeding on a bridge going 108 mph. 108 mph!! On a bridge!! Where police consider going 40 to be reckless driving. His 'handlers' have requested that the 76ers provide private security.
Listen to Vitale and ESPN all Duke players are squeaky-clean. Sounds like this one has some issues.
Click to expand...
too bad that anybody does stupid stuff like this, but damn, i wish he would have done it this time last year.
 
If okafor did that last year Duke would of covered it up. Duke alums would of paid tmz 100k $ to make that story go away

You know like how they paid to have that rape thing go away.
 
The only Duke Boys that were ever really good:

dukes3.jpg
 
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Wildcat-in-STL said:
If okafor did that last year Duke would of covered it up. Duke alums would of paid tmz 100k $ to make that story go away

You know like how they paid to have that rape thing go away.
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Yeah, I seriously doubt this behavior is out of the blue. I'm sure he did not do anything too crazy at Duke, but I'm sure some stuff was covered up.
 
BearMercer said:
Probably right, but part of his foul trouble came from trying to guard Okafor. Also Okafor had two blocks on Towns.
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Towns team won the game. That is all that matters. Okafor does not make his team better like Towns does. 0 and forever. Better beat the Lakers tonight or they may never win a game.
 
Regarding basketball: Uh, Jah has had a great year playing basketball. Guy is averaging 18 pts, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game on an absolutely terrible, terrible team which is almost wholly populated by d-leaguers (no Wiggins, no Rubio, no LaVine, no Garnett, no Prince, no Bazz, not even a Jones) who cannot seem to pass him the ball and who get him double teamed constantly, and which has questionable (to put it mildly) coaching. He thoroughly dominated KAT in their one match-up this year, pulling down 12 boards and scoring 25 points while fouling KAT (who scored only 6 points and grabbed 2 rebounds in 20 minutes) out. Trying to say "WHOSE TEAM WON?! THAT SHOWS WHO IS BETTER!!!" is just dumb; if Jordan in his prime had played alongside a bunch of middle schoolers against an All NBA team, would you really try to say "Well, Jordan isn't as good because his team lost!"? Frankly (and I know some people will unreasonably get upset at this fairly innocuous statement) I don't think anyone can be pounding their chest at how much better than Oak KAT is... that would be pure homerism. Both players are really, really good.

Regarding personal choices: I hope Jah gets some guidance, and gets it FAST. He is a young kid (only 19) with a ton of money who is pretty much alone and who desperately needs someone to help him. He is LUCKY he didn't get hurt, and MUCH luckier nobody ELSE got hurt. I hate to see a kid who seems like a really good kid (if you read a bit about him, about his background, you get the feeling he is a very good kid who has gotten through some very hard times) get so horrifically off-track. He clearly needs some help, some adult guidance, and I hope he gets it, both for his own sake and for the sake of people around him. I am sure most people feel the same way.
 
I'm just going to leave this here. Real Plus-Minus and Win-Shares for the rookie class.

The first number is Real Plus-Minus, which estimates a player's impact on the teams efficiency. It also adjusts for the effects of the teammates on the floor and the opponents on the floor, to better isolate an individual player's contributions.

The second number is Win-Shares, or the player's value measured in wins.

Real Plus-Minus: Rookie Rankings
PLAYER TEAM RPM WINS*
1. Kristaps Porzingis NY 1.42 1.22
2. R. Hollis-Jefferson BKN 1.07 0.89
3. Nemanja Bjelica MIN 1.06 0.87
4. Karl-Anthony Towns MIN 0.00 0.85
5. Willie Cauley-Stein SAC 0.57 0.72
6. T.J. McConnell PHI -1.44 0.49
7. Nikola Jokic DEN 0.03 0.47
8. Raul Neto UTH -0.19 0.45
9. Frank Kaminsky III CHA -0.04 0.38
10. Justise Winslow MIA -2.47 0.17
11. Jerian Grant NY -2.72 0.07
12. D'Angelo Russell LAL -3.28 -0.04
13. Mario Hezonja ORL -3.86 -0.10
14. Stanley Johnson DET -4.66 -0.30
15. Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -5.59 -0.73
16. Jahlil Okafor PHI -6.02 -0.99
 
Pancreas13 said:
I'm just going to leave this here. Real Plus-Minus and Win-Shares for the rookie class.

The first number is Real Plus-Minus, which estimates a player's impact on the teams efficiency. It also adjusts for the effects of the teammates on the floor and the opponents on the floor, to better isolate an individual player's contributions.

The second number is Win-Shares, or the player's value measured in wins.

Real Plus-Minus: Rookie Rankings
PLAYER TEAM RPM WINS*
1. Kristaps Porzingis NY 1.42 1.22
2. R. Hollis-Jefferson BKN 1.07 0.89
3. Nemanja Bjelica MIN 1.06 0.87
4. Karl-Anthony Towns MIN 0.00 0.85
5. Willie Cauley-Stein SAC 0.57 0.72
6. T.J. McConnell PHI -1.44 0.49
7. Nikola Jokic DEN 0.03 0.47
8. Raul Neto UTH -0.19 0.45
9. Frank Kaminsky III CHA -0.04 0.38
10. Justise Winslow MIA -2.47 0.17
11. Jerian Grant NY -2.72 0.07
12. D'Angelo Russell LAL -3.28 -0.04
13. Mario Hezonja ORL -3.86 -0.10
14. Stanley Johnson DET -4.66 -0.30
15. Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -5.59 -0.73
16. Jahlil Okafor PHI -6.02 -0.99
Click to expand...

So Towns isn't even the best rookie on his team? Crazy.
 
I am well aware of the advanced metrics, but I have a hard time seeing what value they have with a team as historically bad as the current 76ers. The 76ers haven't won a single game yet. How useful can those stats be? How does one even figure win shares if you have no wins?

Hey, if you want to try to argue that KAT is SO much better than Okafor, go ahead. I think it is an uphill battle, especially since we literally just saw them play against each other, and Okafor really crushed KAT. Me? I tend to think they are both really, really good.

This IS a bit off topic, though. I think the topic was actually how good they are at making choices off the court, and it seems like KAT is winning that battle (a more important one, at that) hands down.
 
okafor didnt crush Towns. Towns got two quick fouls and then a quick third foul and sat most of the time. Okafor did the vast majority of "crushing" against the backup.
 
Living in Philly, downtown, where there are a lot of clubs....let's just say Okafor has a certain rep and is on a first-name basis with the bouncers standing out front of most of our most-esteemed (LOL) establishments
Unfortunately, so did DeSean Jackson and we all saw what happened to him
Even if you are squeaky clean, which it is becoming apparent does not apply to Okafor, you get seen with and hang around with a certain crowd here and it is bad press
In many respects, Philadelphia is a very, very small town; and everyone knows everyone else's business
Maybe that's why I like it so much: it is exactly like the small town in Kentucky I grew up in
There will be more about Okafor, it is simmering now but it will come out; and the free-fall the Sixers are in will fuel the fire even further
Strap in Jahlil because the flight is about to get bumpy
 
wildcatsboston1984 said:
Philly is actually significantly better statistically with Noel on the court and Okafor off than they are with Okafor on the court and Noel off.
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How so? I've only seen a bit of the 76ers this year... how does the team get worse with Okafor on the court?
 
BearMercer said:
Probably right, but part of his foul trouble came from trying to guard Okafor. Also Okafor had two blocks on Towns.
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Okafor is terrible on defense, and every smart measure of production shows that it is true. Good post moves, though. Hope it works out for 76er fans.
 
wildcatsboston1984 said:
As of Nov. 29
CVCrUaLWoAEkYTb.png
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No no, I get the stats... what I am wondering is... what does that MEAN? Like... what happens when Okafor is on the court that is so much worse? How does the team play differently? It just seems to strain belief that a team magically goes from one of the worst defensive teams to the best defensive teams by replacing one player, especially a really capable one, with another. What actually HAPPENS there?
 
Well, as we know how the NBA works, you don't have to be a good defender, or even play defense to be elite.
2 recent examples: Harden / Irving

Both these guys get so much hype, and are not required to answer for their bull fighter's defense.

I'll venture to say Okafor is closer to bein an all-star than Noel, and I'm about having Noel my team first if I want to win.
 
TheDude1 said:
No no, I get the stats... what I am wondering is... what does that MEAN? Like... what happens when Okafor is on the court that is so much worse? How does the team play differently? It just seems to strain belief that a team magically goes from one of the worst defensive teams to the best defensive teams by replacing one player, especially a really capable one, with another. What actually HAPPENS there?
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It means Philly is better as a team on both ends of the floor with Okafor on the bench. With Okafor in the game and Noel on the bench the points per game differential is 27.8. With Noel on the floor and Okafor on the bench the differential is 2.3.
 
Lumpy 2 said:
It means Philly is better as a team on both ends of the floor with Okafor on the bench. With Okafor in the game and Noel on the bench the points per game differential is 27.8. With Noel on the floor and Okafor on the bench the differential is 2.3.
Click to expand...

Again, I get the numbers... but I am wondering WHY. Like... what happens that makes the entire team so bad? It just seems strange that the worst team in the league is somehow so much better with their best player, the top scoring and second highest PER player and near-top rebounding rookie, a guy who won a national title in college and was a top pick in the draft and has been regarded as a sure-fire talent for YEARS, NOT on the floor. I mean... why would Sixers fans be jumping all over Noel and okay with him being traded if he is somehow making the team that much better? Because I look at their game threads and it seems the entire Philly fan base thinks Okafor might be the only really good player on their team.

I'll be honest... having seen a bit of the Sixers this year, and seeing how terrible their guards are, how they struggle to pass or defend, and how BAD the team is... It makes me wonder exactly how much of the story the stats are telling. After 30 years of watching basketball, my eyes and understanding struggle to make sense of some of these "advanced" and, in many cases, overly-simplified metrics.
 
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TheDude1 said:
No no, I get the stats... what I am wondering is... what does that MEAN? Like... what happens when Okafor is on the court that is so much worse? How does the team play differently? It just seems to strain belief that a team magically goes from one of the worst defensive teams to the best defensive teams by replacing one player, especially a really capable one, with another. What actually HAPPENS there?
Click to expand...

Partly small sample size that probably exaggerates the effects - plus/minus is noisy over short time periods. But the big things you hear NBA analysts mention are: 1) very slow help rotations, which is death in the modern NBA; 2) poor rebounding (team and individual); and 3) missed assignments. Most rookies struggle with defense; he's just struggling a lot more.

Advanced stats can seem counter-intuitive at first. For example, some players with great individual rebounding numbers are a net negative for rebounding. They basically steal rebounds from teammates and don't block out. But someone with poorer rebounding numbers can box out and do the little things that lead to his team getting more rebounds than when he is off the court. But look at something simple like baseball. Even in that easier to digest game, for decades multi-million dollar teams valued the wrong types of players. Is it any surprise that in basketball, a much more complicated game to digest and analyze, some advanced stats seem counter-intuitive? Not really.

Some other quick thoughts. PER disproportionately values high-usage players. Per game numbers don't mean a ton in a small sample, especially with things like PPG and RPG, which are often a function of mere volume. Kevin Pelton (on a Nate Duncan podcast) recently said that Okafor's offense actually rates (by his metrics) worse than his defense because he's very inefficient.
 
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