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This doesn't sound good for Lloyd

BigBlueFanGA

BigBlueFanGA

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Jun 14, 2005
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While I understand the function of a disciplinary board for code of conduct violations at a school, this situation has me a bit annoyed. Reading between the lines it sounds as though the board has voted to sanction Lloyd. The problem is, they could not have heard from both sides in this. Since he was facing criminal charges, he could not have defended himself in this "hearing". Forcing him to do so would be tantamount to forcing self incrimination due to the ongoing criminal proceeding. This should not be allowed and seems to clearly deprive him of due process. Furthermore, as a student I wouldn't have any faith in 3 pinhead fellow students who get to act like God. Just my thoughts.

Some code of conduct info.
 
The Disciplinary committee uses a lower burden of proof than a court proceeding unfortunately. The COC says the standard of proof shall be a "preponderance of the evidence" (i.e. more likely than not).
 
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Yes, I know, but that doesn't address the problem of having a "hearing" while a criminal investigation is ongoing. He cannot defend himself. That shouldn't even be legal.
 
Wow. That's brutal...and ridiculous if the policy doesn't have an exception to reverse the Disciplinary Board's decision in the event a court of law determines that the individual is innocent. This should apply to all students, athletes or not.
 
Does he even have the right to file a motion for stay of the civil proceeding while the criminal case is ongoing? If not he should be able to sue the university.
 
^ He won't sue. He will tell UK to stick it and he will go play somewhere else. I agree the process seems flawed.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Wow. This is complete garbage if true. So Llyod apparently was falsely accused, and a grand jury agrees by not indicting him, yet some bogus committee can still penalize him? Complete joke.
 
Couple of questions come to mind here.

1) Do all universities have such boards with this type of authority?

2) What kind of affect will this have on Stoops if this board can get rid of any of his players that are accused of such things?
 
Originally posted by BigBlueFanGA:
While I understand the function of a disciplinary board for code of conduct violations at a school, this situation has me a bit annoyed. Reading between the lines it sounds as though the board has voted to sanction Lloyd. The problem is, they could not have heard from both sides in this. Since he was facing criminal charges, he could not have defended himself in this "hearing". Forcing him to do so would be tantamount to forcing self incrimination due to the ongoing criminal proceeding. This should not be allowed and seems to clearly deprive him of due process. Furthermore, as a student I wouldn't have any faith in 3 pinhead fellow students who get to act like God. Just my thoughts.
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Mom's talking in the past tense. This sounds over. How ridiculous.
 
If this is true, this is the kind of thing UK should hear from it's fans and alumni about. In my opinion, this kind of treatment of the young man is reprehensible and is an embarrassment to anyone who claims to be a fan of the University. It should not be tolerated by any of us. There is no excuse for treating an individual in this manner. It is even more reprehensible in light of the fact that many athletes, and regular students, with proven criminal histories are accepted into Universities all across this country every day. Yet, in a case where no such proof exists, he is not welcomed back. If there is a single student at UK with any kind of criminal history, and I'm sure there are, UK should be ashamed. I hope this is something that happened during the 60 day period after the accusation, and that someone at UK can overturn.
 
Originally posted by TNTUK:
Wow. That's brutal...and ridiculous if the policy doesn't have an exception to reverse the Disciplinary Board's decision in the event a court of law determines that the individual is innocent. This should apply to all students, athletes or not.
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I don't think a group of students, no matter how honorable they are should have the power to remove someone from a university. But no one was proven innocent, there wasn't enough evidence to indict him, grand jury doesn't determine innocene or guilt, they determine if the DA has presented enough evidence that there needs to be a trial. But many people ruled innocent on criminal charges have been ruled against in civil court. This comes down to young women and young men doing what they been doing since we all got here and one having buyer's remorse the next morning. I hope I am not upsetting anyone, but been plenty of men's life's and careers ruined by a woman having buyer's remorse the next morning.
 
If I understand what I have read tonight the disciplinary board is not made up up students. It is the Vice President of Student Affairs( VPSA) and two others from a list of ten professors or administrators either active or retired who have had training in adjudicating such matters.

I personally for a number of reasons think they will exonerate him (Larson is tough and if there had been any evidence he would have pursued it). I realize the different standards of burden of proof but I still think the fact Ray would not bring it indicates the case is weak beyond weak.

The problem here is definitely if it is drawn out the student and mother will say why go through this unfair treatment again and transfer to UL .

Hopefully the Board will do the right thing and render an opinion immediately letting him get on with his life. The regs I read said they could have completed their investigation concurrently with the criminal case going on. The only testimony necessary would be obvious and could be completed and a decision rendered in a day.

I represented a Police Merit Board at one time and the head of the Board advised us at the beginning of each hearing. "You lawyers can go on as long as you like with each witness. However please be aware that other than five minute potty breaks there will be no other breaks and we will continue hearing the case all night if necessary. The Board will make a decision immediately after hearing the evidence and you will not go home until we do. So advise your wives , husbands and baby sitters you may not be home tonight."

Some how that convinced the lawyers to be brief and we always finished a hearing starting at 800 AM by midnight. THAT IS WHAT IS CALLED FOR HERE.

Justice delayed is in fact justice denied.

This post was edited on 2/12 11:25 PM by loucatfan
 
Grumpy, he is an attorney, even a former public defender. I think he knows the system.
 
Like I posted in the other thread, these violence against women cases are absolutely fatal right now from a PR perspective. Every accused is considered guilty immediately. Its ridiculous.

I agree violence against women (anyone really) is unacceptable. But people at least deserve to have the process play out.
 
Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

Like I posted in the other thread, these violence against women cases are absolutely fatal right now from a PR perspective. Every accused is considered guilty immediately. Its ridiculous.

I agree violence against women (anyone really) is unacceptable. But people at least deserve to have the process play out.
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I am a graduate of the University and I love the University, but if they are basing their actions on PR instead of ethics, they do not deserve respect or love from anyone. I hope that ultimately the right thing is done by UK.
 
release the name of pinheads on this board, did chuck Hayes have to go thru this board ?
 
Originally posted by cat_in_the_hat:
Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

Like I posted in the other thread, these violence against women cases are absolutely fatal right now from a PR perspective. Every accused is considered guilty immediately. Its ridiculous.

I agree violence against women (anyone really) is unacceptable. But people at least deserve to have the process play out.
Click to expand...
I am a graduate of the University and I love the University, but if they are basing their actions on PR instead of ethics, they do not deserve respect or love from anyone. I hope that ultimately the right thing is done by UK.
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Ethics? I'm not sure this group understands the word.
 
Originally posted by Cilohatac:
Originally posted by StillBlue83:
Couple of questions come to mind here.

1) Do all universities have such boards with this type of authority?

2) What kind of affect will this have on Stoops if this board can get rid of any of his players that are accused of such things?
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It's pretty standard at most universities nowadays.

You want to read a horror story, check this one out.
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Yeah I read this story awhile back, it's unbelievable. Glad I'm not in college these days...sheesh. Gotta have a girl sign a contract before you can get some.
 
Originally posted by UKRob 73:
Grumpy, he is an attorney, even a former public defender. I think he knows the system.
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I am most likely wrong then, but that was the instructions the DA gave me when serving my time on grand juries, we weren't there to determine guilt or innocence, just to determine if there was enough evidence to go to trial. I just finished my last term on one last year. But thats my experience fortunately with the court system.

This post was edited on 2/13 12:13 AM by Grumpyolddawg
 
Originally posted by Grumpyolddawg:

Originally posted by UKRob 73:
Grumpy, he is an attorney, even a former public defender. I think he knows the system.
Click to expand...
I am most likely wrong then, but that was the instructions the DA gave me when serving my time on grand juries, we weren't there to determine guilt or innocence, just to determine if there was enough evidence to go to trial. I just finished my last term on one last year. But thats my experience fortunately with the court system.


This post was edited on 2/13 12:13 AM by Grumpyolddawg
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You are not wrong, a Grand Jury does not determine guilt or innocence,a Petit jury does.
 
Originally posted by cat_in_the_hat:
If this is true, this is the kind of thing UK should hear from it's fans and alumni about. In my opinion, this kind of treatment of the young man is reprehensible and is an embarrassment to anyone who claims to be a fan of the University. It should not be tolerated by any of us. There is no excuse for treating an individual in this manner. It is even more reprehensible in light of the fact that many athletes, and regular students, with proven criminal histories are accepted into Universities all across this country every day. Yet, in a case where no such proof exists, he is not welcomed back. If there is a single student at UK with any kind of criminal history, and I'm sure there are, UK should be ashamed. I hope this is something that happened during the 60 day period after the accusation, and that someone at UK can overturn.
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I agree totally with this. Also, I live in a city that allows transfers and recruits who have actually hit, abused, and further threatened females, to join their sports program. Can anyone here guess what university that would happen to be? To add insult to injury, Mr Tubman may not be allowed to go back to our beloved football team, but I will bet the farm that I can guess what sleazy, gutless, shameless, piece of crap football coach will be the first one to contact him about joining their renegade, criminal laden football team.

Whew, I feel better.
 
Neither of you were wrong, I'm just saying, that as a former public defender, I think he knows what you are saying.
 
Originally posted by BigBlueFanGA:
While I understand the function of a disciplinary board for code of conduct violations at a school, this situation has me a bit annoyed. Reading between the lines it sounds as though the board has voted to sanction Lloyd. The problem is, they could not have heard from both sides in this. Since he was facing criminal charges, he could not have defended himself in this "hearing". Forcing him to do so would be tantamount to forcing self incrimination due to the ongoing criminal proceeding. This should not be allowed and seems to clearly deprive him of due process. Furthermore, as a student I wouldn't have any faith in 3 pinhead fellow students who get to act like God. Just my thoughts.
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Is there an appeal process,maybe before a hearing officer or ALJ?
 
I don't know. I think the article said the Dean of students has the final say in an expelment. This situation is part of what I stated in the other thread. Lloyd has been tainted. By a certain percentage of people he will always be viewed as a rapist. Having the disciplinary board sanction him only adds fuel to the fire. Now I am almost certain he will never play for UK. I still hope I'm wrong.
 
Originally posted by Grumpyolddawg:

Originally posted by UKRob 73:
Grumpy, he is an attorney, even a former public defender. I think he knows the system.
Click to expand...
I am most likely wrong then, but that was the instructions the DA gave me when serving my time on grand juries, we weren't there to determine guilt or innocence, just to determine if there was enough evidence to go to trial. I just finished my last term on one last year. But thats my experience fortunately with the court system.


This post was edited on 2/13 12:13 AM by Grumpyolddawg
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You don't determine innocence in a regular trial either...but this not even getting to trial is a major statement in itself.
 
Originally posted by Bigbluetrue:
Wow. This is complete garbage if true. So Llyod apparently was falsely accused, and a grand jury agrees by not indicting him, yet some bogus committee can still penalize him? Complete joke.
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He wasn't falsely accused. The grand jury didn't indict.
 
Originally posted by TBCat:

Originally posted by Bigbluetrue:
Wow. This is complete garbage if true. So Llyod apparently was falsely accused, and a grand jury agrees by not indicting him, yet some bogus committee can still penalize him? Complete joke.
Click to expand...
He wasn't falsely accused. The grand jury didn't indict.
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Him saying falsely accused is as bad as you saying he wasn't falsely accused. Two people know.
 
Maybe there's been a reversal by the conduct board? Just a few hours ago his mom posted on Facebook, along with a pic of LT, "Thanks Holy Spirit, for waking me up with great sensitivity and renew vibes. Nightmares are all behind me. Halleluya, I Love my Lord, for he's ever so faithful, mighty and just."

This post was edited on 2/13 10:51 AM by Rawrrr
 
Why shouldn't Lloyd be allowed to return to UK and the football team? The Grand Jury didn't find enough evidence to indict He should be allowed to return to UK. The UK dean of students and members of this board should get their heads out of their *sses.
 
I dont think the school has the backbone to allow Lloyd to come back. If this was Willie Cauley Stein, it might be a different story.The athletic director and school president could easily influence the decision of the board and Lloyd Tubman himself.

Their silene is deafening, and speaks volumes to a) level of self-righteousness or b) level of cowardice.
 
If it was up to Lloyd and his mom,yes. He would be back.

This post was edited on 2/13 11:48 AM by madskilz
 
Originally posted by Wildcats4EverandEver:
I dont think the school has the backbone to allow Lloyd to come back. If this was Willie Cauley Stein, it might be a different story.The athletic director and school president could easily influence the decision of the board and Lloyd Tubman himself.

Their silene is deafening, and speaks volumes to a) level of self-righteousness or b) level of cowardice.
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I have the same concerns about their back bone. However, I wouldn't read to much into their silence on the matter. I think since he is not a current enrolled student, he can now be recruited like any other athlete. I don't think UK can comment on any athlete that is open for recruitment.
 
This is why I never got my hopes up. The review board was always his biggest hurdle no matter the legal outcome.
 
Originally posted by TBCat:
Originally posted by Bigbluetrue:
Wow. This is complete garbage if true. So Llyod apparently was falsely accused, and a grand jury agrees by not indicting him, yet some bogus committee can still penalize him? Complete joke.
Click to expand...
He wasn't falsely accused. The grand jury didn't indict.
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Actually, in our legal system, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Tubman is innocent under the law, thus any accusation of his guilt is false until proven otherwise, so yes, he was falsely accused.

Also, isnt Tubman not enrolled in school? Not sure how this plays with the disciplinary committee, but it may.
 
Perhaps, but also possibly just joyful her son was not indicted by the Grand Jury and now has (by far) the most serious aspect of this unfortunate situation behind him.
Originally posted by Rawrrr:
Maybe there's been a reversal by the conduct board? Just a few hours ago his mom posted on Facebook, along with a pic of LT, "Thanks Holy Spirit, for waking me up with great sensitivity and renew vibes. Nightmares are all behind me. Halleluya, I Love my Lord, for he's ever so faithful, mighty and just.&quotk;

This post was edited on 2/13 10:51 AM by Rawrrr
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This post was edited on 2/13 12:06 PM by MS59
 
Welcome to todays politics. Like many more things these days a false narrative has been thrown around in the media. If you listen to them one would think rapes and sexually violence is a normal occurance on campus'. Yes there is sexual violence but i don't beleive for one second it's as bad as some think. This is politics and this young man is paying the price.
 
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