These Backup Options are pretty darn good....

[UKani]

For those who are losing faith because of these flips that are happening or because recruits that we are after suddenly get offered by other big schools, I'd say chill for a while and go look at film of these backup options.

DaVon Hamilton is going to flip to Ohio State if he hasn't already, but UK is in on another guy, Courtney Miggins, this dude is just as good with better open field speed. He's a JUCO guy with 4 years to play 3 seasons so he's got time to grow at UK as well. Courtney Miggins is an inch taller and the same weight as Hamilton. If that's not enough go and watch film of Javon Provitt, after you do that you won't come away with any other conclusion than he may be better than Hamilton.

Worried about Jeremiah Dinson flipping to Auburn or maybe UK doesn't get Marcus Lewis.... I'd say look at film of Marcus Lewis and tell me if you don't think he has tight hips or not. Players with tight hips usually have trouble at CB on the FBS level and have to switch to safety. I"m just saying.... But go look at film of Chris Westry and this new guy Derrick Baity both are 6'4" and 6'3" DBs who can play CB, that's a extremely long for a secondary and both are pretty athletic and has nice hips for there size, its a rarity to find that size at CB.

Perhaps you are worried about news that AD Miller got an offer from Oklahoma and you think he's going to commit there after he visits. I'd say go and watch film of Kayaune Ross, dude is a really nice WR that can stretch the field and has size. Not much of a drop off there either.


All in all these backup options in a lot of cases are just as good when you look at the film. Also these backup options are better than Joker's primary options in most cases.... They are pretty darn good.

 

[UKErik]

I think fans of any school would be concerned this late in the game if commits started flipping. We have what, a week or so before national signing day? Time is getting tight.

Hope you're right about those kids. Hope they pick the Big Blue!!!!

GBB!!!

 

[jauk11]

Originally posted by UKErik:
I think fans of any school would be concerned this late in the game if commits started flipping. We have what, a week or so before national signing day? Time is getting tight.

Hope you're right about those kids. Hope they pick the Big Blue!!!!

GBB!!!

I'm glad you said "would be concerned" instead of "should be concerned", LOL. A lot of our fans "would be concerned" about almost anything.

And I agree with UKani, our secondary choices now are much better than a lot of Joker's primary choices, he didn't even really try for some of our best in state talent---
and at the time it would have probably been a waste of time.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

"And I agree with UKani, our secondary choices now are much better than a lot of Joker's primary choices"

Some might argue that that isn't a very high bar.

I do think that based on what's happened the last two years, this class will be pretty good no matter who we wind up with but hopefully it won't be couched in terms comparing it to Joker's classes.

 

[BlueRaider22]

In the end this class will be decent. Not stellar but decent. I think we are feeling the consequences of losing and not looking good down the stretch. Recruits are being more cautious. I think Stoops gets his first winning season next yr and we don't fall off towards the end of the yr. That should give recruiting the spur we are yearning for.

 

[Blue Decade]

All of this depends on one's point of view. If you are looking for an SEC Championship, top 10 recruiting classes, and lots of major upset wins in Stoops' 1st 3 years in Lexington, then you are going to be disappointed because that is too much, too fast. Blame it on Stoops, on the school, or whatever you want, but that just isn't going to happen. But if you are looking for improvement every year with a couple of bowl bids, legitimate SEC recruiting classes, and a chance to break into the top 25 rankings during Stoops' 1st contract, those things can and will happen. Yearly improvement can and probably will lead to the level of success every Kentucky fan yearns for, but it will take some time. If Stoops is given time, he will take care of business. Retaining Vince Marrow is a very good sign. If Shannon Dawson works out, the pace of improvement will accelerate. I am pleased with Provitt's commitment and believe our defense will be better in 2015. Defensive improvement is essential.

 

[K_TIME]

Originally posted by BlueRaider22:
In the end this class will be decent. Not stellar but decent. I think we are feeling the consequences of losing and not looking good down the stretch. Recruits are being more cautious. I think Stoops gets his first winning season next yr and we don't fall off towards the end of the yr. That should give recruiting the spur we are yearning for.

I totally agree...our recruiting is falling back a bit this year and how we looked down the stretch did nothing to help the situation. But falling back on kids that had offers from Auburn/DB, DT with offers from Pitt, etc...was truly the highlights of Joker's classes. I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

So we have a decent class and have some good kids on board for 2016...but the losing 6 game sin SEC isn't going to cut it anymore, getting hammered 2-3 times a season isn't going to cut it anymore, etc..

 

[dyersburgcatfan]

And don't forget, this is the SEC which has some of the most prestigious FB programs in the country: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, just to name a few. It takes much longer to climb the ladder here than in most other conferences, simply because the competition from top to bottom is grueling. We aren't competing against two or three top-tier teams, but against the top-tier conference of teams. That means, not only competing for the best recruits, but it also means that every conference game is a cat and dog fight week in and week out. Any SEC team that goes to a bowl has truly earned its way there.

We are doing just fine...in fact, much better than I thought we would. The recruiting is way up. The wins will come, but they will not come easy in this conference. Had we been in just about any other conference with last year's team we would have gone to a bowl...there would have been a few easy...or at least, easier, conference games.

My one concern is that Stoops keeps the fire alive and that the team chemistry stays good when we have disappointing runs like we ended last season with.

 

[vhcat70]

Originally posted by Blue Decade:
All of this depends on one's point of view. If you are looking for an SEC Championship, top 10 recruiting classes, and lots of major upset wins in Stoops' 1st 3 years in Lexington, then you are going to be disappointed because that is too much, too fast. Blame it on Stoops, on the school, or whatever you want, but that just isn't going to happen. But if you are looking for improvement every year with a couple of bowl bids, legitimate SEC recruiting classes, and a chance to break into the top 25 rankings during Stoops' 1st contract, those things can and will happen. Yearly improvement can and probably will lead to the level of success every Kentucky fan yearns for, but it will take some time. If Stoops is given time, he will take care of business. Retaining Vince Marrow is a very good sign. If Shannon Dawson works out, the pace of improvement will accelerate. I am pleased with Provitt's commitment and believe our defense will be better in 2015. Defensive improvement is essential.

That's one fine post.

 

[C1180]

When you are dealing with out of state recruits you have to expects some late flips when home state U comes calling late in the game when they strike out on their preferred choices when you are going after good players. This is why you must have good back up options.

I keep hoping for an early signing period because IMO it would benefit teams like UK that must depend on a lot of out of state talent more so than teams that have a lot of in state talent. Another thing it would help weed out players that are using you as a back up waiting for home state U to come calling.

 

[dorkmeister]

UKani....great post!!!!!!

It seems we always get worried about missing a player or a player flipping and then we all "flip" out. With the super amazing job this staff has done we now have talent to replace talent on the recruiting front. Its seems almost impossible but our backup plans are better than our first targets with some of these kids.

When you look at their highlight film, their size and speed it makes you wonder how this staff keeps finding all the talent. We are in good hands with Stoop's Troops!!!!

 

[BlueRaider22]

There's also an attachment that comes with guys. Most of us who follow recruiting closely have been analyzing and watching Dinson/Lewis for quite some time now. In a way we become attached or drawn to them......especially when it's guys like Dinson who was committed to us for a while. When they choose to go elsewhere we are left a little hurt......wondering who guys like Baity are since they are relatively uknown to us. In general people are often resistant to change.

 

[Hacksaw Cat]

According to Rivals and news reports, Hamilton has committed to OSU.

 

[mrschwump]

Hamilton would've been a nice addition, would've been a good DT prospect after 20-25 lbs and a RS year. Miggins is more a DE type, undersized at 285 for a SEC DT. They may want to use him the way they used Z. Thought I read where Miss St leads for Miggins. Regardless, DT now becomes yet another high priority for the '16 class.

 

[C1180]

This smells of a lets put those upstarts down there at UK in their place move by OSU.

 

[TJS4UK]

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Vandy commit, a Purdue commit, an Illinois commit & a 4 star North Carolina commit...



This post was edited on 1/27 8:06 AM by TJS4UK

 

[mrschwump]

Originally posted by C1180:

This smells of a lets put those upstarts down there at UK in their place move by OSU.

Coming off a NC I doubt OSU is very worried about a team coming off a 5-7 year riding a 6 game losing streak.

 

[UKani]

Originally posted by mrschwump:

Hamilton would've been a nice addition, would've been a good DT prospect after 20-25 lbs and a RS year. Miggins is more a DE type, undersized at 285 for a SEC DT. They may want to use him the way they used Z. Thought I read where Miss St leads for Miggins. Regardless, DT now becomes yet another high priority for the '16 class.

Can't agree with you on this one. I think Miggins is a DT, especially how UK played defense last season. He used to play DE but has grown into a DT. If UK continues to play defense the way they did last season then he'll play 5-technique in that 3-4, he has the prototypical size at 285lbs for that position. Now if they go 4-3 defense from what I've seen on film he's better used on pass rush downs at the 3-technique, unlike Za'Darius Smith who stuck at DE in the 4-3 except for a couple of times. I do agree that to be an every down DT in the 4-3 that he needs to gain some weight, he certainly has the frame to do it.

 

[Blue Decade]

Originally posted by C1180:

This smells of a lets put those upstarts down there at UK in their place move by OSU.

It is hard for me to believe Ohio State would burn 1 of their 25 scholarships to target Kentucky's class. They are just working their board. For them, Hamilton is the next in line instate player with an interest in being a Buckeye. But whether he plays in Lexington or Columbus, Hamilton isn't an immediate impact player. If he wants to sit on the bench for his state school, I can respect that. I like Provitt a little better. If Strowbridge sticks with us, I think he ends up as a developmental tackle with some upside. I don't have an opinion on Miggins, and don't know his true level of interest in Kentucky. But we have Lewis, Elam, Meant, Johnson, Middleton, Hyde coming back. A good group. Adding Provitt and Strowbridge should help. Lot of talent there, and more help coming in our 2016 class. Hamilton just isn't that important.

 

[DACats86]

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.
This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

JMO, but these guys flipping had nothing to do with our finish...they would've left regardless.

Hamilton flipped to UK after the season was over...then flipped to home state OSU.

Dinson received late offers from Florida and Auburn...Dinson was always looking around at other places and I felt his commitment was a place holder.

This season:

Custis - Alabama
Stump - home state OSU
Fullwood - local school VT
Hamilton - home OSU
Dinson - Auburn

All are pretty understandable, and I don't think our finish or lack had much to do with anything for the decommits....probably hurt more with undecideds.

 

[UKani]

Originally posted by BlueRaider22:
In the end this class will be decent. Not stellar but decent. I think we are feeling the consequences of losing and not looking good down the stretch. Recruits are being more cautious. I think Stoops gets his first winning season next yr and we don't fall off towards the end of the yr. That should give recruiting the spur we are yearning for.

I think that even with these backup options that this class is better than decent, I would say that its pretty solid. By UK's standards this is still a great class and still one of the better ones in UK modern football recruiting. The problem is that Stoops has raised the bar with his first 2 recruiting classes....lol... If this were Joker's class then we would be on cloud 9 and hanging from chandeliers..lol..

 

[mrschwump]

Originally posted by Blue Decade:

Originally posted by C1180:

This smells of a lets put those upstarts down there at UK in their place move by OSU.

It is hard for me to believe Ohio State would burn 1 of their 25 scholarships to target Kentucky's class. They are just working their board. For them, Hamilton is the next in line instate player with an interest in being a Buckeye. But whether he plays in Lexington or Columbus, Hamilton isn't an immediate impact player. If he wants to sit on the bench for his state school, I can respect that. I like Provitt a little better. If Strowbridge sticks with us, I think he ends up as a developmental tackle with some upside. I don't have an opinion on Miggins, and don't know his true level of interest in Kentucky. But we have Lewis, Elam, Meant, Johnson, Middleton, Hyde coming back. A good group. Adding Provitt and Strowbridge should help. Lot of talent there, and more help coming in our 2016 class. Hamilton just isn't that important.

I totally agree with you that Hamilton is long term, I'd just rather he RS here than OSU. As for what UK has returning...Hyde hasn't played much if any. Have to really wonder at this point if he has a future here. I'd caution too that Meant is coming off shoulder surgery and will miss the spring. The significance of that is he'll likely miss weight training therefore losing strength. On the plus side perhaps is it seems I read Dubose is around 300lbs now, may figure in at DT.

 

[TJS4UK]

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.
This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit
Nerlin Delic - former Maryland commit
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star)
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. I also agree that Stoops has out recruited Joker overall during these past 3 classes. However, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.




This post was edited on 1/27 10:24 AM by TJS4UK

 

[JHB4UK]

Originally posted by UKani:

Originally posted by BlueRaider22:
In the end this class will be decent. Not stellar but decent. I think we are feeling the consequences of losing and not looking good down the stretch. Recruits are being more cautious. I think Stoops gets his first winning season next yr and we don't fall off towards the end of the yr. That should give recruiting the spur we are yearning for.

I think that even with these backup options that this class is better than decent, I would say that its pretty solid. By UK's standards this is still a great class and still one of the better ones in UK modern football recruiting. The problem is that Stoops has raised the bar with his first 2 recruiting classes....lol... If this were Joker's class then we would be on cloud 9 and hanging from chandeliers..lol..

Absolutely true. Some perspective is needed by those hitting the panic button the hardest this month. The misses and defections are disappointing, but the class we are gonna sign will still be light years better in talent than we have previously signed here at UK.

 

[DACats86]

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.
This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit
Nerin Delic - former Maryland commit
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star)
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. But, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.


This post was edited on 1/27 10:19 AM by TJS4UK

You know as well as I do that Taylor (injury), Collins and Henderson were cut by the teams they were formerly committed to - they weren't flipped. Priester had no chance of getting in (academically) at Vandy.

 

[usa1000]

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.

This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit - Non-factor Transferred down
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit - Non-factor Transferred down
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit - Contributor
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit - Non factor (did he ever play?)
Nerlin Delic - former Maryland commit - Never played a down
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit - Trouble from the start Transferred Down
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star) - ???
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit - Contributor

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. I also agree that Stoops has out recruited Joker overall during these past 3 classes. However, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.








This post was edited on 1/27 10:24 AM by TJS4UK

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by UKani:
. I'd say look at film of Marcus Lewis and tell me if you don't think he has tight hips or not. Players with tight hips usually have trouble at CB on the FBS level and have to switch to safety. I"m just saying....

Could be, but he's a Rivals top 100 player #5 DB with a killer offer list. Obviously a lot of the real experts like his hips. BTW I think he's a CAT

 

[TJS4UK]

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.
This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit
Nerin Delic - former Maryland commit
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star)
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. But, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.


This post was edited on 1/27 10:19 AM by TJS4UK

You know as well as I do that Taylor (injury), Collins and Henderson were cut by the teams they were formerly committed to - they weren't flipped. Priester had no chance of getting in (academically) at Vandy.

Yes. Several that I listed were legit flips, but I do agree that a few of those kids were likely cut loose. Collins was very much a he said, she said, situation. Some think that he was asked to grey shirt, but he claimed otherwise. Who really knows? A quick Google search will show that most of the media actually used the word "flip" for several of these guys at the time. Again, who really knows?

On the other hand, some will also claim that UK did not really flip Westry and that he was encouraged to look around. What is the difference? I don't care if we really flipped him or not, just glad that he is on board!

I do know that besides Alabama, Collins had offers from Auburn, FSU, and from most of the schools in the south. Khalid Henderson visited Ole Miss the week before visiting UK. Justin Taylor also showed offers from Georgia, Georgia Tech, Arkansas and South Carolina. Priester also had offers from Notre Dame and Duke. They may all have indeed been cut loose for all we know, but on paper they looked real good when Joker flipped them.



The whole point my original reply was this... Several actually had better options than MTSU, UTC, etc. Honest question.... Did they not? That was the only point that I was trying to make.






This post was edited on 1/27 10:45 AM by TJS4UK

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.

This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit
Nerin Delic - former Maryland commit
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star)
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. But, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.




This post was edited on 1/27 10:19 AM by TJS4UK

You know as well as I do that Taylor (injury), Collins and Henderson were cut by the teams they were formerly committed to - they weren't flipped. Priester had no chance of getting in (academically) at Vandy.

Yes. Several that I listed were legit flips, but I do agree that a few of those kids were likely cut loose. Collins was very much a he said, she said, situation. Some think that he was asked to grey shirt, but he claimed otherwise. Who really knows?

On the other hand, some will also claim that UK did not really flip Westry and that he was encouraged to look around. What is the difference?




The whole point my original reply was this... Several actually had better options than MTSU, UTC, etc. Honest question.... Did they not? That was the only point that I was trying to make.

TJ, they had better options than MTSU and the like...but the guys you listed were also the top of Jokers classes...and they didn't produce...the retention of those classes were awful - Stoops has excelled in this area.

 

[TJS4UK]

Don't disagree with any of that. Some players pan out and some don't. Some don't get developed properly. Joker had trouble in those areas, no doubt. However, none of that changes the fact that they had better options than MTSU, UTC, etc. That is all I was saying.

Originally posted by usa1000:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.

This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit - Non-factor Transferred down
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit - Non-factor Transferred down
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit - Contributor
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit - Non factor (did he ever play?)
Nerlin Delic - former Maryland commit - Never played a down
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit - Trouble from the start Transferred Down
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star) - ???
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit - Contributor

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. I also agree that Stoops has out recruited Joker overall during these past 3 classes. However, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.







This post was edited on 1/27 10:24 AM by TJS4UK

 

[mrschwump]

Originally posted by TJS4UK:
Don't disagree with any of that. Some players pan out and some don't. Some don't get developed properly. Joker had trouble in those areas, no doubt. However, none of that changes the fact that they had better options than MTSU, UTC, etc. That is all I was saying.

Originally posted by usa1000:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by DACats86:

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Candy commit & a 4 star TE, just off the top of my head.


This post was edited on 1/27 7:44 AM by TJS4UK

Not going to debate what Joker did, or didn't do, but this is not true.

What is not true?

Justin Taylor- former Bama commit - Non-factor Transferred down
Darryl Collins- former Bama commit - Non-factor Transferred down
Kalid Henderson - former Tennessee commit - Contributor
Jerrel Priester - former Vandy commit - Non factor (did he ever play?)
Nerlin Delic - former Maryland commit - Never played a down
Marcus Caffey - former Purdue commit - Trouble from the start Transferred Down
Alex Smith - former UNC commit (4 star) - ???
Cody Quinn - former Illinois commit - Contributor

I don't want to debate either... The Joker ship has sailed. I also agree that Stoops has out recruited Joker overall during these past 3 classes. However, out of fairness.... These are the actual truthful facts in regards to a former UK player and coach.








This post was edited on 1/27 10:24 AM by TJS4UK

Pretty depressing list. Henderson's disappointed. Quinn can't stay up with SEC WRs. Hope the current flips work out better.

 

[K_TIME]

Originally posted by TJS4UK:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game.

In fairness to Joker, he flipped at least 2 Bama commits, a UT commit, a Maryland commit, a Vandy commit, a Purdue commit, an Illinois commit & a 4 star North Carolina commit...





This post was edited on 1/27 8:06 AM by TJS4UK

Sort of depends on how you define flipping...
- Khalid Henderson had his ride pulled/greyshirted from UT
- Darryl Collins had his ride pulled/greyshirted from Bama
- We did flip the Maryland kids when Friedgen hit the bricks out there and I'm sure their rides were still solid to Maryland

But I seem to remember Collins Ukwu was flipped from MTSU to UK when we lost a DE to UT. A FB Warren flipped to UK from UTC on signing day. Seems like there were some other 2 star "diamonds in the rough" we got late that never panned out.

To me, Joker/Tee Martin were the most overrated recruiters I can remember at UK. The kids they recruited were just always vs. Ohio, Miami Oh, Southern Miss, etc..adn their high rated kids (Faulkner, Tim Patterson, Donte Rumph, Brandon Gainer, etc..) just never really shined above the lower rated kids.

 

[TJS4UK]

Read KTime's post. That was what I was addressing. I actually agree with you for the most part. Again, all I was saying is that "on paper" Joker was recruiting better than simply trying to flip a bunch of MTSU commits, as was implied by KTime. Retention & development was indeed Jokers main downfall... But it was not the fact that he was battling MTSU for recruits, IMHO. Even so, this years class has more 4 stars than Joker ever landed in a class.

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Originally posted by KTIME

I remember when Joker would fall back on kids with offers from MTSU, UTC, etc..late in the game

TJ, they had better options than MTSU and the like...but the guys you listed were also the top of Jokers classes...and they didn't produce...the retention of those classes were awful -

 

[BlueRaider22]

Hey, can we ease up off MTSU? They're doing pretty well in C-USA now-a-days.....

 

[UKani]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by UKani:
. I'd say look at film of Marcus Lewis and tell me if you don't think he has tight hips or not. Players with tight hips usually have trouble at CB on the FBS level and have to switch to safety. I"m just saying....

Could be, but he's a Rivals top 100 player #5 DB with a killer offer list. Obviously a lot of the real experts like his hips. BTW I think he's a CAT

Keep in mind a lot of those offers want him as a Safety, not a CB. I'm not saying that he won't be good at CB, maybe he develops well... IDK.

 

[TJS4UK]

Originally posted by K_TIME:

But I seem to remember Collins Ukwu was flipped from MTSU to UK when we lost a DE to UT.

You are correct about Warren... He was offered as a fullback after somebody else chose to go elsewhere. I can see where you were coming from & it looks like we are both right depending upon the point of view. I just remembered Warren as being more of a rarity of the flips/switches than the norm.

Although Joker was here, Ukwu flipped when Brooks was the HC (2008). During Brooks tenure we did indeed battle the MTSU's of the world more than desired. However, Brooks was a real gem of a player developer and he seemed to be able to get more out of a bunch of 2 stars & 3's than many coaches could.

Anyway, I really didn't mean to open a can of worms. I just thought that, overall, Jokers recruiting, at least "on paper", wasn't quite as bad as beating out MTSU, etc. for every commit & I wanted to point that out, in fairness to him. Regarding player development and retention, I'm with you on that part. Also, don't disagree that some of his flips may have been encouraged to look around, but he did have truly legit flips from UNC, Maryland, Purdue, Illinois, etc.





This post was edited on 1/27 12:28 PM by TJS4UK

 

[TJS4UK]

Originally posted by BlueRaider22:

Hey, can we ease up off MTSU? They're doing pretty well in C-USA now-a-days.....

Sorry bout that... They are indeed doing pretty well in CUSA.

 

[Blue Decade]

As someone said, the Joker ship has sailed. Debating how well Joker recruited is a waste of a good thread. I will say this much. On paper, Joker's classes were as good or better than most of Brooks' classes, but Brooks got results on the field whereas Joker did not. Because Brooks was a better program manager. The test of a recruiting class is how it contributes on the field over 5 years. That's why class rankings must be taken with a grain of salt. Brooks went to bowls. Aside from 2010 when he had Cobb, Joker did not produce bowls. Stoops hasn't produced a bowl yet, but he is on the cusp now, and headed in that direction. Stoops' 2013 and 2014 classes strengthened our roster. Too many people are passing judgment on the 2015 class before any results are in. Which is as much of a waste of time as debating about Joker. IMO. There are some very good players in this class. At least 8 scholarships still left. Some may be taken by plan B guys like every year, but some will have good offer sheets. This is another impressive effort by Stoops, and it is shortsighted to say otherwise. Way too much attention being given to the offense because of the DH saga. Except for Blue, all of our key offensive players are back. We should keep a closer eye on defensive recruiting, because that's where our program has to get serious. Kengera Daniel, Tyrone Riley, Javon Provitt, Eli Brown, Jordan Jones, Marcus Walker, Chris Westry are quality gets who will help our defense. I expect most of the unfilled scholarships to go to defenders. They may not be household names, but watch their offer sheets.

 

[TJS4UK]

Originally posted by Blue Decade:
As someone said, the Joker ship has sailed. Debating how well Joker recruited is a waste of a good thread. I will say this much. On paper, Joker's classes were as good or better than most of Brooks' classes, but Brooks got results on the field whereas Joker did not. Because Brooks was a better program manager. The test of a recruiting class is how it contributes on the field over 5 years. That's why class rankings must be taken with a grain of salt. Brooks went to bowls. Aside from 2010 when he had Cobb, Joker did not produce bowls. Stoops hasn't produced a bowl yet, but he is on the cusp now, and headed in that direction. Stoops' 2013 and 2014 classes strengthened our roster. Too many people are passing judgment on the 2015 class before any results are in. Which is as much of a waste of time as debating about Joker. IMO. There are some very good players in this class. At least 8 scholarships still left. Some may be taken by plan B guys like every year, but some will have good offer sheets. This is another impressive effort by Stoops, and it is shortsighted to say otherwise. Way too much attention being given to the offense because of the DH saga. Except for Blue, all of our key offensive players are back. We should keep a closer eye on defensive recruiting, because that's where our program has to get serious. Kengera Daniel, Tyrone Riley, Javon Provitt, Eli Brown, Jordan Jones, Marcus Walker, Chris Westry are quality gets who will help our defense. I expect most of the unfilled scholarships to go to defenders. They may not be household names, but watch their offer sheets.

Good post... with some very astute observations.



This post was edited on 1/27 12:20 PM by TJS4UK