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The True Mt. Rushmore of College BB

Who would you include?

  • John Wooden

  • Adolph Rupp

  • Bob Knight

  • Jim Calhoun

  • Mike Krzyzewski

  • Roy Williams

  • Phog Allen

  • James Naismith

  • Rick Pitino

  • Dean Smith

Results are only viewable after voting.
ABlockalypseBrow

ABlockalypseBrow

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May 26, 2018
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Now I don’t claim to be an expert, unless we count Dickie V, in which case I guess we all are. But below is a good list I’d like suggestions on, since I know there are better college basketball historians than me here:

Adolph Rupp, John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Jim Calhoun

Honorable Mention: Mike Krzyzewski

Obviously I just went with the most titles, seems fair to me. A players Mt. Rushmore I started but am uncomfortable putting in the 1992 Douche*, alas I expect more corrections on this one:

Alex Groza, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, *Unnamed, Bill Walton

Honorable Mention: Issel, countless others I’m sure.

Edit: I added a poll.
 
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Wooden was a massive cheater, couldn't vote for him. Ol' Roy? Cheater. Calhoun, cheater.

So I voted Rupp, Knight, K and Phog Allen because he probably didn't cheat.
 
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BlueVoodoo said:
Wooden was a massive cheater, couldn't vote for him. Ol' Roy? Cheater. Calhoun, cheater.

So I voted Rupp, Knight, K and Phog Allen because he probably didn't cheat.
Click to expand...

On Wooden, I felt with his success I couldn't penalize him out of tier 1, unless he was proven to know about Sam Gilbert (of course he likely knew anyways). With the others, they weren't tier 1 to begin with, so I don't blame you for leaving them out.

king of cali said:
How could you say that you went with most titles for coaches, then include 3 coaches who have less titles than K? Like him or not, the man has the second most titles of all time and the most wins. He most certainly belongs on a Mount Rushmore.
Click to expand...

That's a good question, but I only give K 2 earned titles (his first two) to the others' 3+, but he gets the honorable mention in part due to the most wins.
 
Sorry, but there's no way Coach K cannot be on there. Like it or not, he's probably the best coach of all time. To not put him on there seems agenda-driven to me. Of course, we all have our opinions and the OP's is just as valuable as mine. My list:

Rupp. Yes, I'm biased. But he started it all off, dominating the sport for 20 years, while winning four titles + an NIT when that tournament had more prestige than the NCAA.

Coach K. The best in my opinion. Can't wait till he retires.

Knight. The best before his mentor. Tough call on this one, because historically his personal failings will always outweigh his prior accomplishments. But if I'm going with pure coaching ability and results, he's on there.

And if I'm ignoring Knight's "dark side," then I have to go with Wooden and ignore a decade of cheating. We know from watching Cal that it takes way more than only talent to win a championship. Wooden's accomplishment is undeniably impressive despite the circumstances that led that talent to his program.
 
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ABlockalypseBrow said:
Now I don’t claim to be an expert, unless we count Dickie V, in which case I guess we all are. But below is a good list I’d like suggestions on, since I know there are better college basketball historians than me here:

Adolph Rupp, John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Jim Calhoun

Honorable Mention: Mike Krzyzewski

Obviously I just went with the most titles, seems fair to me. A players Mt. Rushmore I started but am uncomfortable putting in the 1992 Douche*, alas I expect more corrections on this one:

Alex Groza, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, *Unnamed, Bill Walton

Honorable Mention: Issel, countless others I’m sure.

Edit: I added a poll.
Click to expand...
If Coach K is not on the mountain then you don’t know basketball. Love him hate him jealous of him, he is the best modern day coach in the game.
 
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BlueVoodoo said:
Wooden was a massive cheater, couldn't vote for him. Ol' Roy? Cheater. Calhoun, cheater.

So I voted Rupp, Knight, K and Phog Allen because he probably didn't cheat.
Click to expand...
You voted Rupp but not Wooden yet both cheated. Seems odd or are you willing to overlook certain teams transgressions?
 
There needs to be 2 mountains. One for the historically coaches and one for modern day.

Wooden, Rupp, Phog, and Naismith (Iba was the alternative) on the historic mountain.

K, Williams, Knight, Calhoun on the modern day mountain. Yes bash away.
 
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BlueBomb said:
Sorry, but there's no way Coach K cannot be on there. Like it or not, he's probably the best coach of all time. To not put him on there seems agenda-driven to me. Of course, we all have our opinions and the OP's is just as valuable as mine. My list:

Rupp. Yes, I'm biased. But he started it all off, dominating the sport for 20 years, while winning four titles + an NIT when that tournament had more prestige than the NCAA.

Coach K. The best in my opinion. Can't wait till he retires.

Knight. The best before his mentor. Tough call on this one, because historically his personal failings will always outweigh his prior accomplishments. But if I'm going with pure coaching ability and results, he's on there.

And if I'm ignoring Knight's "dark side," then I have to go with Wooden and ignore a decade of cheating. We know from watching Cal that it takes way more than only talent to win a championship. Wooden's accomplishment is undeniably impressive despite the circumstances that led that talent to his program.
Click to expand...

I no doubt have an agenda, as we all do. Honestly, I see K on there possibly because there's not a good 4th option. But I don't really view his success as all that legitimate, even less so than Wooden, Knight's or Rupps, he's had his later career resurgence basically handed to him on a platter. Absolute joke draws and unbalanced rule-applying have given him 3 unearned titles. Take those away and he's just another tier 2 coach.

Knight was a giant jerk, but I don't really see him as having gotten any major favorable treatment within competition. Wooden got favorable treatment, but he won 10 flippin' titles out of it, way to maximize. Rupp didn't get any real favorable treatment, although there are pluses/minuses to his era he coached in.
 
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I went with Rupp, Naismith, Wooden, Knight, and K.

Considered Allen but felt the number already selected was more than enough for one monument.
 
Calhoun?

Oh lord. Talk about NaCl. You should maybe refrain from starting threads.

Edit: Hah! Literally one vote for Calhoun in the poll. Wonder who that was?:)

Wooden, Rupp, K, Naismith.
 
blubo said:
Check your history, neither rupp or wooden were ever implicated in cheating.
Click to expand...
So the bottom line is whether a coach was implicated? Well then our fan base is just plain wrong about most coaches.

Let’s see: K nope never implicated, Williams nope, Self nope. But any given day there are threads about them.
 
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DonkeyDwayne said:
So the bottom line is whether a coach was implicated? Well then our fan base is just plain wrong about most coaches.

Let’s see: K nope never implicated, Williams nope, Self nope. But any given day there are threads about them.
Click to expand...

You're onto something, I wouldn't personally call them cheaters myself. The difference to me is, when some coaches' players, boosters, or anyone slightly related (and often unrelated) are caught doing something untoward, the whole program, coach, or team is punished. When all of the coaches above you mentioned are caught cheating in the same manner, no matter how well-documented or the clear precedence set, its swept under the rug.

Does this mean poor ol' Roy knew about the academics scandal anymore than Calipari knew about Camby? No (although one is a lot harder to miss than the other and there's actually circumstantial evidence with Roy and zero with Cal). But my main grudge is that the coaches are held to different standards. That doesn't make them cheats, but don't expect me to pretend their accomplishments don't have an asterisk.
 
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DonkeyDwayne said:
So the bottom line is whether a coach was implicated? Well then our fan base is just plain wrong about most coaches.

Let’s see: K nope never implicated, Williams nope, Self nope. But any given day there are threads about them.
Click to expand...

I think your statement is true. We may or may not be wrong about most coaches, but we certainly apply a double-standard. At least the vocal moñinority is. We can’t defend Cal, Rupp and others using the same defense we dismiss against others.
The acedemic fraud at UNC is a great example. Do we really think deputy dog had anything to do with that? If they were convicted, I would say he was possibly complicit by not stopping it, but I don’t think he created it, ordered it, etc.
Self willl be more interesting. He likely knew about the payments to his players. That’s different, but hasn’t been proven yet.
 
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