The Talent Level of the Incoming Class vs. Past Teams

[KYtotheCore]

Even as a #1-ranked incoming class, it's been stated there is a bit of a dropoff in terms of talent compared to some of Cal's past teams. I'm pleased with Cal's system. Personally, I'm also looking forward to a class that isn't necessarily loaded with OADs. We've seen less-talented teams win the whole thing a few times now. Who knows? This team could end being phenomenal and a bit under the radar too.

Anyone else excited about some possible Hawkins-type talent too, that may stick around and balance the next couple of incoming classes?

 

[Sawnee Cat]

After watching the Mickey D All American game I wonder just how good the class is. But it is hard to judge from an All Star game

 

[KYtotheCore]

After watching the Mickey D All American game I wounder just how good the class is. But it is hard to judge from an All Star game

I didn't get to watch it, but it sounds like it probably isn't the best use of my time to find a replay.

 

[Rondoed]

After watching the Mickey D All American game I wonder just how good the class is. But it is hard to judge from an All Star game

I think some of our players in that game will do better in a non-all-star setting, but the talent of the 2017 appears to be down while the talent level of the 2018 class looks to be sky high.

 

[stenchymouse]

Honestly, I'm not "expecting" next years team to be super.

We had the possibly the best "on paper" class of Cal's tenure this past season and 2 solid seniors to go along with a sophomore in Briscoe, and STILL couldn't get past (refs didn't help us any) a veteran UNC team to make the final 4.

The overall talent level in the "17" class seems down to me and reminds me a little bit of the class of "13", so even though we'll have the number 1 class, I don't think that the players are as good as last years class.

Winning will be difficult with very little returning experienced players.

Also, the SEC is on an up-tick and there's a LOT of young talent and really good coaches, so we'll struggle on the road.

I think we'll pretty good and COULD be really good if we get Bamba, get someone (Briscoe and/or Bam) to come back, and get a grad transfer...

I love the Cats more than anything, but I'm tempering my expectations next year, because I don't want to be disappointed.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

I don't think any of us expect a Final Four next year or to end the season in the Top 10. But we have to play the schedule and who knows stranger things have happened.

 

[jpbky2]

I think two staples to make the one and done program work is a rim protector and someone who can shoot the ball. The Anthony Davis team was the champion and they had that quality. I think Doran Lamb was vastly underrated on his significance to that team as well as Terrence Jones being able to protect the rim. The 2015 team had those qualities, but the other teams have had one or the other element missing. The John Wall team lost because of the inability to have someone knock down shots. That makes me worry about next year, I think we can protect the rim, but I think the ability to put the ball in the basket outside the lane is going to be sorely lacking. I hope I am proven wrong, but it is a huge concern of mine.

 

[WildMoon]

Even as a #1-ranked incoming class, it's been stated there is a bit of a dropoff in terms of talent compared to some of Cal's past teams. I'm pleased with Cal's system. Personally, I'm also looking forward to a class that isn't necessarily loaded with OADs. We've seen less-talented teams win the whole thing a few times now. Who knows? This team could end being phenomenal and a bit under the radar too.

Anyone else excited about some possible Hawkins-type talent too, that may stick around and balance the next couple of incoming classes?

In order for Cal's system to genuinely work is for him to get a balanced 5 position class, he really hasn't done that.

One thing i'll say is that as of now, this class is very balanced. Unfortunately, it's not balanced with top tier talent. SO let's hope to at least get Bamba, because he is a game changer.

Also, it's hard for me to get excited about role player like Hawkins. He does great for being a role player, but really...I want to see Davis, KAT, and many other top tier talent.

Wish we gotten Kansas's Jackson, or Duke's Tatum,...hell even Giles would have been great at UK. Once we have these player, then i would love a role player like Hawkins, Willis, or Miller.

I mean next year, i wish our Class was

1. Duvel -> with no academic issue (Green is fine here)
2. Diallo
3. Michael Porter
4. Bamba
5. Ayton

That would be an exciting as hell class.

 

[WildMoon]

I think two staples to make the one and done program work is a rim protector and someone who can shoot the ball. The Anthony Davis team was the champion and they had that quality. I think Doran Lamb was vastly underrated on his significance to that team as well as Terrence Jones being able to protect the rim. The 2015 team had those qualities, but the other teams have had one or the other element missing. The John Wall team lost because of the inability to have someone knock down shots. That makes me worry about next year, I think we can protect the rim, but I think the ability to put the ball in the basket outside the lane is going to be sorely lacking. I hope I am proven wrong, but it is a huge concern of mine.

What you say isn't wrong, because it's true having shot blocking and 3 point shooter would make any team that much better.

However, i don't think that's how you make it work.

First of all 2014 team went to championship game and didn't have either blocking or shooting. Now i do agree that adding either would have gotten them over the edge. Obviously, you are basically saying "get better defensively and offensively."

Key for me, as i said above, is balance. We have had glaring hole in a lot of position throughout this 8 year run, and that hurts.

Doron Lamb didn't really shoot as much as people think. I think our teams past 2 years have been shooting WAYYY too much 3 point shots. It's part of the reason why we have lost early. I am talking about our best shooters. Lamb shot 4 per game.... Monk has shot 6, Derek with less minutes shot 3.4, even offing Mulder shot 3 threes.... Way too much.

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

Even as a #1-ranked incoming class, it's been stated there is a bit of a dropoff in terms of talent compared to some of Cal's past teams. I'm pleased with Cal's system. Personally, I'm also looking forward to a class that isn't necessarily loaded with OADs. We've seen less-talented teams win the whole thing a few times now. Who knows? This team could end being phenomenal and a bit under the radar too.

Anyone else excited about some possible Hawkins-type talent too, that may stick around and balance the next couple of incoming classes?

They may not be to the level of some of the past classes but they're not at Dom's level when he came in either.

 

[WildMoon]

They may not be to the level of some of the past classes but they're not at Dom's level when he came in either.

Dom's class was with Randle. That class was very strong. Took us to championship game next season.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Past two years Cal has been heavily dependent on guards. His best teams have had talent and depth in the front court.

Murray and Ulis were all time, but Dakari Johnson could have been the difference, especially in that last game vs IU. This year we probably had the deepest back court with Monk, Fox, Briscoe, and Hawk, but I think Marcus Lee could have been the difference, or maybe a more seasoned Hump who had gotten more run last season and through the regular season this year could have done even more than what he was able to do.

The importance of developing and playing SKJ, Tai, and Hump early and often next season cannot be understated, especially if Bamba goes else where and Bam does not come back.

 

[docholiday51]

Honestly, I'm not "expecting" next years team to be super.

We had the possibly the best "on paper" class of Cal's tenure this past season and 2 solid seniors to go along with a sophomore in Briscoe, and STILL couldn't get past (refs didn't help us any) a veteran UNC team to make the final 4.

The overall talent level in the "17" class seems down to me and reminds me a little bit of the class of "13", so even though we'll have the number 1 class, I don't think that the players are as good as last years class.

Winning will be difficult with very little returning experienced players.

Also, the SEC is on an up-tick and there's a LOT of young talent and really good coaches, so we'll struggle on the road.

I think we'll pretty good and COULD be really good if we get Bamba, get someone (Briscoe and/or Bam) to come back, and get a grad transfer...

I love the Cats more than anything, but I'm tempering my expectations next year, because I don't want to be disappointed.

Maybe on paper,but we had basically a 3 man class.Bam,Fox and Monk were what we expected,we got very little from Gabriel and SKJ when the chips were down.The same could happen this season but I doubt it,there is Likely more production spread across Green,Diallo,Richards Vanderbilt,Washington and Alexander.There may not be a Monk or Fox but 6 is greater than 3 and we aren't done yet

Veteran players always bring something to the table we will have very few if any next season and the ones we do have will overlap more than compliment who we have coming in.

The under 19 team could give us a bit of a jump start next season.If we get Bamba, the kid from Pitt and/or the Smith kid the look of things change some.Willis and Hawkins are walking thru the door but they are going the wrong direction

 

[wromanp7]

We should finally rest a bit easy on the SF front.
Next season we will have Diallo, PJ, and Vanderbilt that can all be mixed in depending on the matchups.
I also believe we will have at least one of those three return for their Soph season.

 

[wromanp7]

Not to mention I think we look very good for adding either Zion or Moore next year.. or both.. depending who declares.

Cal may end up with his five 6'7/6'8 talented players playing truly positionless in '18/'19.

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

Dom's class was with Randle. That class was very strong. Took us to championship game next season.

I wasn't talking about Dom's class, I was talking about Dom himself. Did you read the post I quoted from? I was saying that the players coming in are more talented than Dom was when he came in, not Dom's class.

 

[_Rooster]

I didn't get to watch it

I did and Bamba stood head and shoulders above the others. He seems to float with grace.

 

[Blue Decade]

Even as a #1-ranked incoming class, it's been stated there is a bit of a dropoff in terms of talent compared to some of Cal's past teams. I'm pleased with Cal's system. Personally, I'm also looking forward to a class that isn't necessarily loaded with OADs. We've seen less-talented teams win the whole thing a few times now. Who knows? This team could end being phenomenal and a bit under the radar too.

Anyone else excited about some possible Hawkins-type talent too, that may stick around and balance the next couple of incoming classes?

We don't even know yet who is in our next recruiting class. We know about Vanderbilt, Green, Alexander, Washington, Richards, Diallo (already here). But we don't know who else will commit in the next month. If Bamba comes to Kentucky, that's a game changer. Conventional wisdom says most of our new players will not be OAD. That might be true, but I want to see them play in college games before forming impressions. We have had a lot of players in the Calipari era who were supposed to be multiyear, but ended up entering the draft after 1 year. Booker didn't start at Kentucky, but left after 1 year and scored 70 points in an NBA game the other night. Diallo, Bamba are OAD. After them, Washington, Vanderbilt, Richards have that kind of raw talent if they get enough opportunity to develop. But if some of them come back for their sophomore season, that's a good thing. How many scholarships will Calipari have to work with in the following class, when the talent level appears very high? That's going to be important.

 

[KYtotheCore]

I wasn't talking about Dom's class, I was talking about Dom himself.

That's what I was implying too. Someone as good as Dom now, but not OAD.

 

[KYtotheCore]

Booker didn't start at Kentucky, but left after 1 year and scored 70 points in an NBA game the other night.

He's the player that keeps my assumptions tempered. We've seen people not likely to be OAD become stars after one year, and people hyped up who didn't quite live up to it. I'm good either way, as long as they progress.

 

[FilsonCat]

If the team buys into a defense first mentality, they will be able to compete with anyone. If they struggle on the defensive end, there just aren't enough shooters to carry us.

This will be a team that sees a ton of zone from opponents.

 

[Blue Decade]

If the team buys into a defense first mentality, they will be able to compete with anyone. If they struggle on the defensive end, there just aren't enough shooters to carry us.

This will be a team that sees a ton of zone from opponents.

I think all of that is exactly right, as far as it goes. Defense ultimately wins, but you also have to be able to score inside and outside. Quade Green is not a bad perimeter shooter, but he won't be a primary scorer. I expect to see 2 more players join our class, Bamba plus a guard who shoots well from the perimeter.

 

[Oldbluefart]

The thing that worries me is so many people are talking about this class being somewhat less talented then others and come the end of the year, players thinking the draft is not as strong and leave early only because others are in their ears.
We had many players leave and with the exception of a select few, we don't hear much about them anymore.
I understand about the D league, making some money is better that no money, but each year these guys are in the D league, a whole new crop of players come in and the pool of players gets bigger each year for the GM's to choose from.
Its a business and the more you have to choose from, the less you have to pay.
I would not want any other coach then Coach Cal, but I would welcome a new plan from the NCAA and the NBA that sees less OAD's.
I have a business and one of my best guys has been starting to miss work a little too much.
Each time he does not come in, I have to stop and show someone how to cut tile, lay brick, install laminate and so on. I can not imagine how Coach Cal starts fresh each year with a whole new crop of players, trying to get them to learn a system, learn how to play defense for the first time in their lives, all in a few months to compete against the Dukes, UNC, UL, UCLA's of the world.
My hat is off to him. He takes the system and uses it better than anyone.
But boy, would I love to see some of these guys for a couple years!

 

[C8TS]

Problem is they all think they are one and dones - that's why they came here. Just listen to Vanderbilt talk about it at the McDonalds All-American game.

 

[true blue1]

Bamba is the missing link to the class, we get him watch out, he decides to go somewhere else, could be a very long season.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

bamba is effectively 8 feet tall, and mobile

whatever the relative strength of the class overall, he seems likely to massively influence games defensively

 

[docholiday51]

Problem is they all think they are one and dones - that's why they came here. Just listen to Vanderbilt talk about it at the McDonalds All-American game.

Yes they do,it comes down to how well they embrace the learning process and their maturity level.This years team matured later than some but they got there before it was all said and done.I think this as much as talent has a lot to do with how well a team plays.Talent that is perceptively better or advanced physical maturity that is greater than everyone else are different matters but for the most part these kids are somewhere in the same talent boat.

 

[_Rooster]

Bamba is the missing link

bamba is effectively 8 feet tall, and mobile

Now we're talking Bigfoot!

 

[docholiday51]

Now we're talking Bigfoot!

That wouldn't have been a foul if he had on a UNC jersey I hope that is what Karnowski does to a UNC player or two

 

[CatsnRoses]

Draft will be extremely weak next year. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these guys people keep saying aren't OAD material take advantage of that and bolt.

 

[uky8unc5]

* Spoiled rotten. All of us (me too). If you exclude the teams before 1960, we are presently right now living in the Golden Era of UK basketball.

* The only string of years that comes close was mid-1990's, but Rick dumped us without proving if he could sustain what he built.

 

[Hoskins21]

Problem is they all think they are one and dones - that's why they came here. Just listen to Vanderbilt talk about it at the McDonalds All-American game.

He was specifically asked whether or not he could be one-and-done. What did you expect him to say? No, I'm focused on getting a 4 year degree? It doesn't work like that anymore. Almost 90% of these players want to play for pay and provide for their families. It's not like he's a borderline top 100 player saying this stuff.

 

[jpbky2]

What you say isn't wrong, because it's true having shot blocking and 3 point shooter would make any team that much better.

However, i don't think that's how you make it work.

First of all 2014 team went to championship game and didn't have either blocking or shooting. Now i do agree that adding either would have gotten them over the edge. Obviously, you are basically saying "get better defensively and offensively."

Key for me, as i said above, is balance. We have had glaring hole in a lot of position throughout this 8 year run, and that hurts.

Doron Lamb didn't really shoot as much as people think. I think our teams past 2 years have been shooting WAYYY too much 3 point shots. It's part of the reason why we have lost early. I am talking about our best shooters. Lamb shot 4 per game.... Monk has shot 6, Derek with less minutes shot 3.4, even offing Mulder shot 3 threes.... Way too much.

The 2014 team wasn't very good (By Kentucky standards, until Aaron started hitting shots. They had an inside presence with Dakari, Willie (until he got hurt). Lamb didn't take many threes, but he shot a high percentage and other teams couldn't leave him to double down and when they did (Kansas), he killed them. Cal's defense is predicated on pressuring the ball and let the team take to the basket and then have somebody erase it. That wasn't the case this year and that is why J.J. Frazier and other players killed us going to the basket. You are correct in that you have to have balance, but I think next years's team is going to be about athletes than basketball players. I hope I am wrong, but I think putting the ball in the basket (against top competition) is going to be an issue.

 

[BlueRattie]

This is a very polarizing class. If you like it, you see guys that are team-oriented, unselfish, and versatile (i.e. positionless basketball). If you think this class is sub-par, you see an overall lack of elite athleticism and some real skill deficiencies. The strange thing about them is that each one of them brings somethings to the table that are really nice, but each one also has a "knock" or two that give NBA types pause. In the long run, this could really work out well for Cal because unless something really changes, these guys aren't jumping ship after one year. (Not a single one of them is on the draftexpress.com 2018 mock draft).

I think what Cal has done here is sheer genius. Other teams have grabbed a single one-and-done player. That player will score a ton of points on an average team (I'm looking at you, Mizzou) and then bolt. Cal has simultaneously landed the #1 class and they're going to stick around. (It's actually reminds me of Florida's 2004 class). It amazes me how ahead of the game he is.

Quade Green:

• The Good: Crafty with the ball, plays low to the ground with high B-Ball IQ. Has transformed himself from a scoring guard to a pass-first point guard. Still retains some scoring instincts and shoots the ball well. Sneaky, opportunistic defender.
• The Knock: Not an elite athlete. Doesn't have blazing speed or great hops. NBA types wonder if he'll ever be able to beat elite defenders off the dribble.

Jarred Vanderbilt:

• The Good: Athletic with great body control. Both tall and "long" for a small forward, 6'8 frame causes match-up problems. Excellent rebounder and passer for his position (SF). Team first guy that values winning.
• The Knock: Classic tweener. He's too lean (and perhaps too short) to play PF, and some question whether or not he's athletic enough to play SF (especially on defense) or whether he shoots well enough to stay at the 3. If he doesn't have the skill set to stick at the 3 then he's a 3 to 4 year player.

P.J. Washington:

• The Good: Hard worker with a team-first mindset. Very high B-Ball IQ that get's great position on rebounds, passes well, and plays with his head up. Has worked on his mid-range game to become and more than adequate shooter. Has a 7-2 wingspan and well-muscled frame.
• The Knock: He's 6'8 and doesn't have elite, quick-twitch athleticism. Nice frame, but not an athletic freak show like Bam or Bamba. Doesn't shoot or handle well enough to move to the 3 and he may not have the frame to stick at the 4. Another tweener? Perhaps. Will be a great college player, though.

Hamidou Diallo:

• The Good: Technically, a part of last year's class, but let's go ahead and look at him. A monster athlete. Long and rangy, with electric open court speed, burst, and hops. Good size for the 2 with long arms (6'11 wingspan) good overall musculature.
• The Knock: To be honest, Diallo could go pro and he would most likely stick somewhere. I think that he took the redshirt this year, though, to keep deficiencies in his game under wraps. His shooting has always been a concern. Scouts vacillate as to whether his shot "needs work" or is just plain "broken". Some openly wonder if his elite athleticism hid some serious skill issues at the high school level.

Nick Richards:

• The Good: You can't teach 6-11, 230. Big frame with better than average athleticism and strength. Willing defender that likes to rebound. Another kid with a team-first attitude.
• The Knock: Offense is the obvious problem here. Not much shooting touch and lacks a refined back to the basket game. Does not have nimble feet or "quick" hops. Needs a college lifting program; his frame looks underdeveloped and he doesn't move with the fluidity of elite big men. He's not a project, but he's not a one and done type either.

Shai Alexander:

• The Good: Nice athlete with great size and length (6-11 wingspan) for a combo guard. Unselfish player (see a pattern?) that wants to win above all. Willing passer that does little things to win.
• The Knock: Slight frame and suspect jumper. No part of his game stands out. Doesn't have great quickness or hops, not a great jump shooter. Lots to be excited about, but lots of unknowns too.

 

[Cawood86]

Not sure who's going to have a a team next year that will be all that much better than UK.
UK will be extremely young. More than any Cal team yet. However, they will have very good size down low. Diallo will be as explosive and athletic as anyone in the country. If UK adds Bamba, this team should be a legit contender.

 

[docholiday51]

A good break down BlueRattie,to take this one step more I think the addition of Bamba and the kid from Pitt would change this class into almost scary good.We will be "forever young" with this group and will have likely 0 upper class leadership. Cal will finally answer the question ,how much can you win with only freshmen?

There is always something to look forward to with Cal's brand of UK basketball,he boldly goes where no one has gone before just about every year.

 

[JonathanW]

Honestly, I'm not "expecting" next years team to be super.

We had the possibly the best "on paper" class of Cal's tenure this past season and 2 solid seniors to go along with a sophomore in Briscoe, and STILL couldn't get past (refs didn't help us any) a veteran UNC team to make the final 4.

The overall talent level in the "17" class seems down to me and reminds me a little bit of the class of "13", so even though we'll have the number 1 class, I don't think that the players are as good as last years class.

Winning will be difficult with very little returning experienced players.

Also, the SEC is on an up-tick and there's a LOT of young talent and really good coaches, so we'll struggle on the road.

I think we'll pretty good and COULD be really good if we get Bamba, get someone (Briscoe and/or Bam) to come back, and get a grad transfer...

I love the Cats more than anything, but I'm tempering my expectations next year, because I don't want to be disappointed.

I agree with most of what you said.
Still a lot of moving pieces, so we don't know exactly what our roster will look like.
But I think a 26-8 record heading into NCAA-T, with a 13-5 SEC record and taking the SEC by just 1 game looks reasonable. We could be challenged by UF, USC, Alabama, maybe a couple others. Although adding say Briscoe and Bamba or Bam, would improve those #'s by 6 more wins.
Very possible we only have 1-2 early entrants leave next year. So the 2018-2019 season could be a very good one, and if we add 2-3 star players like Williamson or Bagley, we could try to finish what we came so close to doing in 2015 (but I won't say the numbers/words, those should be banned from the board).

 

[jwhite123]

I think this season depends a lot on Diallo. We need to come out and be a superstar to help these guys transition. He's the only guy I see us having where we can say "go get us a bucket".