Remember Jordan Matthews.....

[CloverforkCat]

the WR from Vandy, who graduated in 2014 ? All he did was catch 262 passes for 3,759 yds and 24 TD's during his career. He is the SEC all-time leader in receptions and receiving yards, caught 94 passes for 1323 yds as a jr. and 112 passes for 1,477 yds as a sr.
He was a TWO star recruit out of HS, who begged Vandy to take him, they did, and the rest is history. Can't always go by a recruit's Star ranking !

 

[KapitalCat]

With individual players that's true. Overall when evaluating a team and its level of talent stars matter. We are recruiting well enough to compete in the SEC. When Stoops first class is Seniors and redshirt juniors then we will know beyond a doubt if the staff can develop and coach.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[C1180]

It is true that a star rating does nor insure success or predict failure but a higher percentage of the top ranked recruits go on to success in college football than the lower ranked players.

Because of sheer numbers you might end of with a higher number of success in the lower rated players because there is so man more of them but your chance are better with the higher ranked ones.

There is many factors involved but I think the biggest one is that some kids just physically develop earlier. This is how we get the diamonds in the rough. A kid is behind the top players but catches up and sometimes passes them. Then you have the kids that physically have no business being top players but make themselves one with sheer will.

I am not going to say that Randell Cobb wasn't talented because he was but IMO his best attribute was his sheer will. He just refused to believe he wouldn't win and seemed to be able to transfer some of that to his team mates. There was just an unbelievable spirit to that kid and if you looked into that kids eyes while he was competing it was almost scary. A very special player. If you are a coach you say prayers for a team full of players with what ever it was that kid had. Enough of that because I guess you have figured out by now that I am a huge Cobb fan.

 

[Deeeefense]

^ If I don't score every time I touch the ball, then I've done something wrong. Randall Cobb

the crazy thing is, I think he actually believes that!

 

[Chuckinden]

Originally posted by CloverforkCat:
the WR from Vandy, who graduated in 2014 ? All he did was catch 262 passes for 3,759 yds and 24 TD's during his career. He is the SEC all-time leader in receptions and receiving yards, caught 94 passes for 1323 yds as a jr. and 112 passes for 1,477 yds as a sr.
He was a TWO star recruit out of HS, who begged Vandy to take him, they did, and the rest is history. Can't always go by a recruit's Star ranking !

That's true, but probably 8-10 times, the higher rated player has more success.

 

[Rhavicc]

Originally posted by KapitalCat:
With individual players that's true. Overall when evaluating a team and its level of talent stars matter. We are recruiting well enough to compete in the SEC. When Stoops first class is Seniors and redshirt juniors then we will know beyond a doubt if the staff can develop and coach.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I'm 50/50 on your comment. We definitely recruit well enough to compete against anybody, but I don't buy that "stars matter" when recruiting services can barely get it right.
Go look at our new RB commit, check his stats, and compare his stats against 5 star RB's.
Take into account what state the players play in, the division that their school participates in, etc.
As far as production though, the kid puts up similar rushing yard numbers to Soso Jamabo, and TD numbers to Damien Harris, he's the Georgia player of the year, and he's rated a 2 star.
New Jersey's sack leader, a 6'4 DE with a 4.6 forty-yard dash speed, rated a 2 star. Meanwhile, this coach who has sent DE's to Ohio State is adamant that Josh Allen is the best DE to come out of his program.
Alvonte Bell is currently rated a 70 (2 star) according to 247, and last year, he was rated an 88 (Nearly 4 star). It's hard to be the tackle/sack leader on your team when Courtney Miggins is your other DE (and at an 88 overall [3 star/ nearly 4], he could possibly be underrated).
People read into stars way too much.

 

[GridCats]

Joker recruited two stars, how did that work out?

 

[cats2010]

Originally posted by KapitalCat:
With individual players that's true. Overall when evaluating a team and its level of talent stars matter. We are recruiting well enough to compete in the SEC. When Stoops first class is Seniors and redshirt juniors then we will know beyond a doubt if the staff can develop and coach.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

I understand what you are saying as a rule of thumb but check out TCU's recruiting history the last 5 years compared to Texas for example and even Ole Miss who TCU just pounded in the bowl game. A day or two ago I had looked up TCU and one of the last five years they had signed 4 four stars but the rest of the years it was 2 I believe with the rest being 3 stars and below. Zero five star recruits in the last 5 years. Haven't looked up Ole Miss but I guarantee you in the last 5 years their recruits outstar TCU by a pretty wide margin.

 

[gossie21]

Is there ever any variation to these discussions? Yes, 2* can turn out to be studs. 5* and 4* recruits can be duds. Does that about sum it up?

 

[CloverforkCat]

Originally posted by Chuckinden:

Originally posted by CloverforkCat:
the WR from Vandy, who graduated in 2014 ? All he did was catch 262 passes for 3,759 yds and 24 TD's during his career. He is the SEC all-time leader in receptions and receiving yards, caught 94 passes for 1323 yds as a jr. and 112 passes for 1,477 yds as a sr.
He was a TWO star recruit out of HS, who begged Vandy to take him, they did, and the rest is history. Can't always go by a recruit's Star ranking !

That's true, but probably 8-10 times, the higher rated player has more success.

Probably true, player development is such a key to success. Coach Brooks and his staff, did such a great job of that, every former UK in the NFL now, except for Avery Williamson, played at least 1 year for him.

 

[cats2010]

Originally posted by gossie21:
Is there ever any variation to these discussions? Yes, 2* can turn out to be studs. 5* and 4* recruits can be duds. Does that about sum it up?

I think the consensus is on a per player basis you are correct but that will not translate over to a team. A team full of 4 and five star studs is going to be very difficult for a team made up of mostly 2 and 3's to compete with.

I mentioned TCU as an example above vs Texas and Ole Miss this year which TCU laid the wood to both. From 2010-2014 TCU took on 10 four stars and zero 5 stars. Texas meanwhile had 64 and 5 while Ole Miss had 31 and 4.

2014 Results

TCU 48-Texas13
TCU 42- Ole Miss 3

My conclusion, You can be more than competitive with 3 star talent.

 

[THE_OAK]

Originally posted by GridCats:

Joker recruited two stars, how did that work out?

Pretty crappy, but we also had Joker coaching those players. Which is worse?

 

[ARC Dog]

Rhavicc, no offense, but as a frequent visitor to this board you've proven the last couple of days that you are really lost when it comes to recruiting. Nothing personal, but just an observation.

The highest rated classes over the past three years are Ohio St, FSU and Alabama. Now, do you think its coincidence that those three, and not say Wake forest, Vandy, Iowa State, etc, are 3/4 of the college football playoff?

Is it coincidence that LSU has highly rated classes and looks the part on Saturdays? UGA has been top ten 3 of last 4 years - getting a lot of "stars" in February too.

Stars matter not because a guru gives a kid a rating, but because the highest rated kids are almost always the ones that the professionals - the coaching staffs across the country - want the most. They aren't always right just as the NFL isn't always right, but they are more right than wrong.

You talk all you want about the kid from Moultrie having a lot of yards, but he played on an incredible offense and on the best team in the State of Georgia. Most schools didn't see an SEC player there, and his offers show it. Can he be a good one? Absolutely. But don't tell me for a second that because he's got great stats that you'll put him up against anyone. That's like saying because Tim Tebow was SEC player of the year two years in a row that you'll put him up against anyone in the NFL.

 

[jauk11]

Originally posted by THE_OAK:

Originally posted by GridCats:

Joker recruited two stars, how did that work out?

Pretty crappy, but we also had Joker coaching those players. Which is worse?

Actually so did Brooks, even more so, nineteen in 07, only 12 in 08, but the class average was below a two star, a 5.405, not counting a lower rated two star that didn't show up and including our four star Boyd and our 5.7 Idomwonyi, so two stars were the bulk of the talent. That was following our most exciting team in years, (still didn't break even in the SEC, but averaged over the 67,000 capacity I believe, but couldn't afford to replace the "recruiting room"------or the folding chairs in it, LOL).

Joker only had two two stars in 11 I believe, think that was when Huguenin and Warren came in, and both have started games I believe. Joker was an upgrade in recruiting, believe it or not, at least on paper, but he fired a bunch of good coaches because they couldn't/wouldn't recruit and as a result the coaching under him (and retention of players, added four 5.7s and 5.8s at the last minute when he took over, NONE of which did diddley) was much worse.

Repeating myself for the new fans, but the 10 team that Joker inherited that played Florida started MORE two stars than three stars AND two walkons, while Florida had a FORTY FOUR two deep for starters that AVERAGED not just a four star, but a 5.9 four star. Of course Joker did have that class of nineteen two stars that averaged about a 5.1 (SEVEN were 5.0s) including the ONE 5.4 (Lendl injured) that furnished the important senior leadership. And of course, that team did upset USC later in the year that had a five star and 39 four stars in the previous four recruiting classes.

I really believe that if not for Brooks ability to sign AND DEVELOP underrated two stars UK would never have won an SEC game, possibly ONE against Vandy because they signed less stars than UK did, ONE four star during that decade------and he was a victim of a senseless shooting that killed him.

So yes, Joker was a terrible head coach, especially compared to Brooks, and I think he did have better talent, but I think very few could have done a whole lot better with the commitment UK had to football at that time, perhaps a win against Vandy and the occasional upset.

Now we have a great recruiter with a GREAT amount of support (thanks fans) that has to prove that he is also a great coach very soon or we start back down again-----
and I think he will prove to be that, just not overnight.

I agree that there are a ton of misses in the ratings, both high and low, but the class averages are very important------and last year was great, and next year will be even better if we win some games and go bowling.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Originally posted by ARC Dog:
Rhavicc, no offense, but as a frequent visitor to this board you've proven the last couple of days that you are really lost when it comes to recruiting. Nothing personal, but just an observation.

The highest rated classes over the past three years are Ohio St, FSU and Alabama. Now, do you think its coincidence that those three, and not say Wake forest, Vandy, Iowa State, etc, are 3/4 of the college football playoff?

Is it coincidence that LSU has highly rated classes and looks the part on Saturdays? UGA has been top ten 3 of last 4 years - getting a lot of "stars" in February too.

Stars matter not because a guru gives a kid a rating, but because the highest rated kids are almost always the ones that the professionals - the coaching staffs across the country - want the most. They aren't always right just as the NFL isn't always right, but they are more right than wrong.

You talk all you want about the kid from Moultrie having a lot of yards, but he played on an incredible offense and on the best team in the State of Georgia. Most schools didn't see an SEC player there, and his offers show it. Can he be a good one? Absolutely. But don't tell me for a second that because he's got great stats that you'll put him up against anyone. That's like saying because Tim Tebow was SEC player of the year two years in a row that you'll put him up against anyone in the NFL.

What about Florida, Miami, Michigan, Texas....they have multiple top 10 classes and have been horrible...

Stars don't make the player, the player (hopefully) makes the stars. Recruiting services do great with the elites/elite recruits, because there aren't a ton of them (and very easy to spot)...they are inconsistent with the 3* caliber guys, which unfortunately for their sake make up the majority of college football.

 

[Cefiro]

Originally posted by gossie21:
Is there ever any variation to these discussions? Yes, 2* can turn out to be studs. 5* and 4* recruits can be duds. Does that about sum it up?

Pretty much, not sure why everyone keeps making threads like this. We can always pickout a diamond in the rough, but it's certainly not common.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I watched his state championship game again, the kid is quick and fast, now I don't know if he is 4.38 fast or not, kinda doubt it, but he is fast. Archer, the team they played was fast too and kept him bottled up for most of the game but he finally got a little room and made some key runs late in the game. Now he is a good HS player and can be a good college player provided he is in the right offense. UK running a spread offense is one that fits him, he is small, much thinner than Boom and very likely won't be an every down back because of his size. I don't know if you remember him or not, but our(UGA) is a kid that reminds me of him size wise and he contributed quite a bit for us as a true frosh. But until he gets a little thicker he can't do it every down, have to pick spots. He doesn't fit UGA's offense as a RB, we run the bigger stronger types and if that have good speed thats a big plus because we run inside so much. If nothing else, he can give Boom a breather from return man, if UK's coaches think he is capable.

 

[MrHotDice]

Thanks dawg,

 

[KYBallCoach]

Jordan Matthews was a BEAST! I never thought Vandy would be able to get a production receiver than what they got from Bennett but Matthews for sure proved me wrong.

 

[2bunnies]

Originally posted by gossie21:
Is there ever any variation to these discussions? Yes, 2* can turn out to be studs. 5* and 4* recruits can be duds. Does that about sum it up?

^^This