Refs ruined the NCAAT championship game
- Thread starter rick64
- Start date
Whoa! The final line: "Carolina and Gonzaga were going for their one shining moment, it was the officials who altered the course of college basketball history, one whistle at a time."
I think horrible officiating is on the national radar. The time to fix it is NOW!
I think horrible officiating is on the national radar. The time to fix it is NOW!
So I wonder if fans are beating on the FB pages of these refs? Probably are, but of course the media won't make a peep about it. You know they're getting something from some of the "bad seeds" in the fan bases of Arkansas, Oregon and Gonzaga...
What I despised most about this tournament (aside from our being ousted erroneously), was that the first weekend and part of the second weekend, the refs were mostly quiet on the whistle, and many of us were ecstatic about them letting everyone "play". With the exception of a few bad calls in the UK/WSU and UNC/Ark games, most of the games were much different than we had seen all season in the SEC.
And then came the Elite Eight....for whatever reason, the refs decided to completely change their styles and absolutely "own" these games.
What I despised most about this tournament (aside from our being ousted erroneously), was that the first weekend and part of the second weekend, the refs were mostly quiet on the whistle, and many of us were ecstatic about them letting everyone "play". With the exception of a few bad calls in the UK/WSU and UNC/Ark games, most of the games were much different than we had seen all season in the SEC.
And then came the Elite Eight....for whatever reason, the refs decided to completely change their styles and absolutely "own" these games.
I mentioned this in another thread but North Carolina got away with bodying the shooter on a lot of shots in the paint. I think that really disrupted the Zags. They did a good job of holding their hands straight up but when the shooter left his fee they bumped him with their body. It totally took the Zags out of their rhythm
It wasn't just the NC game. Until the stripes took over, I believe that Arkansas was going to beat them, and of course, we all know about the UK game. UNC was given this title, plain and simple.
There was an over abundance of bad calls in the game on both teams. But, the one that really stands out is the flagrant 1 call against Karnowski. There's not a person on earth that could defend that call. Karnowski got fouled by Berry and both fell to the floor. On the way down, Karnowski's arms very briefly gets behind Berry's neck and that's called a flagrant 1??? It's nothing but incidental contact and anyone with a single brain cell knows it.
I'm not as upset about the fouls that we're called as the ones that were not.
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Here's another article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...carolina-gonzaga-ncaa-championship/100011354/
The headline is "Officials Took Control, Stole the Flow"
The headline is "Officials Took Control, Stole the Flow"
I can't tell if you are joking but this is where you are wrong. I looked through these forums after the John Higgins story came out because I was curious how fans could be so wrapped up in an outcome of a game to threaten the life of a game official. I graduated from Columbia in NYC-- which has a proud tradition of losing athletics-- so I admit we may look at sports in a different way. But threatening an official's life, to the point of where authorities have to get involved, sounds like something that happens in a third world country (like that soccer player who was killed for missing a penalty kick).
Even more surprising to me were the many posters on this forum convinced that the death threat reports were made up and a conspiracy to slander your university. But according to law enforcement last week, and again today, there were over 3,000 voicemails that police were sorting through, in addition to many more Facebook posts (http://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Re...-for-his-saftey-after-UK-loss--418239513.html). That is not an insignificant number of people. It is not a conspiracy to frame the University of Kentucky and it doesn't happen at other places.
I agree that it is unacceptable to make death threats in any circumstance. If legitimate threats were made, I hope they catch and punish whoever made those threats. If law enforcement determines however, that no legitimate threats were made, then Higgins, the media and everyone else who has already come to the conclusion that the threats were real owes UK and their fans an apology.
Right-- but as I cited above, police said they were reviewing 3,000 voicemails, in addition to many more social media posts. It is hard to believe the police are lying 3,000 times or that all the messages are fake.
By the way, I have nothing against Kentucky at all. I have been to Louisville, KY a few times for business and it is one of my favorite cities in America (along with Charleston, SC, Chicago, and of course NYC). There was great food, great culture, and great people, many of whom are Kentucky fans I'm sure. But there must be something that happens when otherwise reasonable people can get into this "pack" mentality (I'm sure books have been written about this).
First, you are speaking as if there were 3,000 death threats. That is incorrect. Police are not lying about 3,000 death threats, because there were not 3,000 death threats.
Second, you are dealing with a lot of college age people who have been shown, by no less than Obama, that death threats are fine. Obama defended the BLM protesters who were making death threats. The media has lavished attention upon them. Remember the protester in Seattle, a college age girl who said "there will be blood" and bodies in the streets during the Trump protests? Younger liberals view death threats as nothing more than part of an enthusiastic dialogue. Even those speaking them don't really take them seriously.
So, you can drone on all you want, but take it up with Obama first.
I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist but you can't convince me the NCAA didn't want UNCheat to win. Any time you have an organization that prides itself on the "student-athlete" and "academic integrity" attempting to sweep 25 years of fraud under the rug, you know all bets are off
Okay, fine. 3,000 people left angry voicemails on the guy's work number. Or maybe 1,000 people left a voicemail and 1,000 people left two voicemails. Whatever it is, that kind of angry pack mentality, especially when directed at someone's workplace, is very "threatening." We are talking about a basketball game here.
And for the subsequent poster who said the NCAA engaged in a conspiracy to propel UNC to a national championship, do you really believe that? This may be an unpopular opinion, but maybe the NCAA hasn't done anything with UNC because it is a complicated issue. I am not the expert on the topic, but Independent Studies courses are very common at elite academic institutions. I had a friend in school (not an athlete) who got 12 credits worth of "As" for taking Art History independent study, and he never turned in a paper. It wasn't an athlete issue; it was known that if you wanted an easy A, get to know a professor and do independent study. Unfortunately, I didn't take advantage.
How many of those 3,000 voicemails were from UK fans? How many contained death threats? How many of those have been determined to be valid? Why didn't Higgins delete the voicemails that didn't contain threats? That would have made the search much quicker and easy.
Surely, after 10 days of investigation, law enforcement would have identified at least some of the legitimate threats by now and if they determined the threats were legitimate, arrests would have been made.
Like I said, if threats were made that law enforcement determines were legitimate, I hope the ones making the threats are caught and prosecuted. If they determine no serious threats were made, then Higgins and the people who are spreading this story, including you, owe our school and our fans an apology. I doubt that will ever happen though.
How many of those 3,000 voicemails were from UK fans? I am not aware of any fan tests that the authorities conducted on the callers, which is very suspicious. But I would assume many callers identified as Kentucky fans.
How many contained death threats? How many of those have been determined to be valid? I don't know. I haven't heard the messages and they haven't been released to the public.
Why didn't Higgins delete the voicemails that didn't contain threats? I don't know if he did or didn't. But it's probably difficult to listen to all the voicemails once there are more than, say, 100. I get overwhelmed if I have 5 voicemails.
Why hasn't anyone been arrested? Maybe they will. Or maybe they didn't think prosecuting thousands of people was a good use of resources. Either way, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
I find it much easier to believe that 3,000 angry voicemails were left by Kentucky fans than that a ref cheated in a game and then fabricated thousands of threatening messages to shift attention away from himself (and the authorities are colluding with them to make Kentucky fans look bad).
At least, that's how it looks in the real world.
Out here in the real world, it looks like you just typed 7 pages of complaints about a few college students who picked up a phone and made a death threat to a referee about a basketball game. Out here in the real world, it looks as though your energy would be better spent going after those groups issuing real death threats, like BLM and the New Black Panthers (have any other groups issued death threats in the past year--if so, go after them, too).
What a nice, intelligent response.
It reminds me. I dated a girl who went to UK the summer after my sophomore year of college. She got an 18/36 on her ACT.
I watched this ref screw UK and there basketball team not one not twice but repeatedly with no consequence. Should fans threaten his life no but he should have lost his job a long time ago. If the ncaa does there job and comes down on biased officials fans would not have to go bonkers.
In your first paragraph you assume many of the callers identified as UK fans. You don't know how many are UK fans and how many are fans of other teams trying to cause trouble.
IN Your second paragraph you admit you don't know how many, if any, contained legitimate death threats. You just choose to believe to believe it's true because Higgins says it happened. Someone who doesn't care to cheat probably doesn't have a problem lying. I wouldn't believe anything Higgins says without proof.
In your third paragraph you say you don't know whether or not Higgins deleted the non-threatening voicemails, or even if he listened to all of them. How would he know how many death threats he got without listening to them?
In your fourth paragraph, you say maybe maybe there will be arrests made or maybe law enforcement didn't think prosecuting thousands of people was a good use of resources. A third possibility is that law enforcement did the investigation and determined no credible threats were made.
Maybe there will be arrests made and maybe there won't. Unlike you, I will wait until an announcement is made, either confirming that legitimate threats were made or Higgins lied before making any judgement.
If it was just Higgins making the claim, your theory might be more plausible. But officers themselves corroborated:
""When the investigator was there yesterday, the phone did not stop ringing. It was pretty much constant," said Capt. Dan Shukis, Sarpy County Sheriff’s Office. “Harassing phone calls and or threats.”
The investigation is a first of its kind for detectives who are reviewing more than 3,000 voicemails left at John Higgins' roofing company in Sarpy County.""
That is where you lose me that this is all a conspiracy to make Kentucky look bad. Actually, the thought that Higgins, the media, and the POLICE are colluding to embarrass Kentucky is almost as scary as the threats themselves.
Where did you quote anything that said there death threats against Higgins? " Harassing phone calls and or threats" do not say anything about threats on his life. If someone told him they were going to "whip his ass" or "slash his tires" that would be considered threats, but not death threats.
Maybe you can remind me where I said POLICE were colluding to embarrass Kentucky. It was you that said that maybe law enforcement thought searching thousands of voicemails was a waste of resources. I said in my first post that I hoped anyone making valid death threats was caught and punished, but I still don't know whether or not those threats were made. You have declared people guilty and just like me, you don't know the facts.
Enough of the refs. UK could of won the UNC game by just hitting their shots. We had some sweet missed shots.
Let me ask you, if 3000 people called and threatened to slash his tires, would that be okay? I didn't listen to the voicemails so I don't know the specific nature of the threats. Plus, there were 3000 of them, so I'm sure there were many different varieties.
But you are saying Higgins made it up. That would imply the police are colluding with him because they provided the details.
I never watched a second of the game. I was asleep by 9:00
I woke up and looked at my phone to see what time it was, and had a news update that informed the losers had won.
It pissed me off something awful.
No, I don't think anyone threatening to slash someone's tires is ok but this thread is about death threats that Higgins claims were made. When an arrest is made, his claim will be verified. Until then, it's an allegation that hasn't been proven.
The entre season and post season was the worst officiated in my lifetime...the replays empower them even more to take over games with flagrant fouls that used to be hard nosed play on basketball plays and it takes 20 minutes to play the last 2 of each half now.
Been more 40+ foul games than I can remember in the last 5 seasons.
I got the feeling early in the post season that the Zags were going to miraculously make it to play UNC..Duke at Cameron level calls saved the Zags early and often, we witness the UNC side of the bracket....everyone else was collateral damage.
Hell I think the fix was in for the Zags to win...they just missed too many 2 footers and fts.
Been more 40+ foul games than I can remember in the last 5 seasons.
I got the feeling early in the post season that the Zags were going to miraculously make it to play UNC..Duke at Cameron level calls saved the Zags early and often, we witness the UNC side of the bracket....everyone else was collateral damage.
Hell I think the fix was in for the Zags to win...they just missed too many 2 footers and fts.
And your point is that you dated someone so obviously below your intellectual capabilities? That all UK fans/students must be of average intelligence, because obviously nobody at UK has ever scored above an 18? Please, enlightened one, inform us unwashed, unholy masses of the error of our ways.
Or...you could be just a big old overinflated bag of gas.
Been saying it all year..this has been the first year of rather watch NBA than college. Every college game is like the two teams players vs the refs. Or every game the coach has to make a gameplan based on how the game is called or has to adjust based on how it's called...why should that ever be any part of a way a coach calls his game?
The referees are too damn involved and too focused on getting into everything. The off ball nonsense benefits no one. They have no common sense...if it doesn't affect play just let it go. They've taken all the fun out of the game, I mean I've never watched an nba game where I even thought of referees afterwards. Or said "well if Russell Westbrook didn't have to sit out bc of foul trouble, things may have been diffetent"
The referees are too damn involved and too focused on getting into everything. The off ball nonsense benefits no one. They have no common sense...if it doesn't affect play just let it go. They've taken all the fun out of the game, I mean I've never watched an nba game where I even thought of referees afterwards. Or said "well if Russell Westbrook didn't have to sit out bc of foul trouble, things may have been diffetent"
No, my observation, albeit tongue and cheek, was that the responses to me were stupid. I.e. "I didn't expect such stupid and defensive responses, then again my only experience with a UK grad was a girlfriend who scored an 18 on her ACT."
I'm sure there are many smart people at UK. As I said, I have had business dealings in Louisville and the people were very capable and friendly. They just don't seem to be the ones posting on this forum.
I guess I'm probably one of those people you are referring to as making those stupid responses. I don't have that degree that you seem to be so proud of, but I retired in my late 40's and haven't worked a day that I didn't want to in more than 15 years. You say your job requires you to travel to Louisville and who knows where else to make a living, so I guess that makes me better off than you.
Anyway, I'm through responding to you and you probably need to get in bed. You have to get up early and get to work. Goodnight dumbass.
So people are calling their monthly disability checks "retirement" now? I'm kidding!
Seriously though, I am glad you are retired and are happy not to travel. But maybe traveling could give you a better perspective on things (i.e. There is no grand conspiracy by the media, the NCAA, the Omaha police and whoever else to take down Kentucky).
I own my own business, so the only person forcing me to travel is myself. I enjoy seeing new places though.
Doesn't happen at other places? Get out of your bubble "Columbia" grad. As of this moment, the police have sought charges against zero people in this investigation. I take it you can add?
Crying victim and claiming threats on life are par for the course in these kinds of situations. Most, and probably all, threats made against Higgins are emotional outburst from fanatical fans. If someone needs to pay a price for that, then they will. But you claiming it's just a terrible deed that's never before been seen is ridiculous. Tone down the faux outrage meter. Your little feelings mean jack squat. Higgins is a criminal.
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You are one of the biggest bags of over inflated wind I've ever seen. Do you actually listen to yourself? you basically just explained how big of a loser you are without realizing it. Keep bragging and going bigger. Eventually the lies will be the reality to whatever morons you're around all day.
"Louisville is one of my favorite places, aside from Chicago, New York City of course. I travel a lot. Like more than anyone here. I enjoy fine foods"
"I had a girlfriend once that made an 18 on her ACT's. I actually lol'd aloud."
"I have business dealings and stuff"
"I graduated from Columbia."
"Kentucky people are not all primitive quite the opposite. They seem quite capable".
Listen to this **** wad. What a f'n joke LMAO.
"I had a girlfriend once that made an 18 on her ACT's. I actually lol'd aloud."
"I have business dealings and stuff"
"I graduated from Columbia."
"Kentucky people are not all primitive quite the opposite. They seem quite capable".
Listen to this **** wad. What a f'n joke LMAO.
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