Reds give away Phillips
- Thread starter Tskware
- Start date
Lets be fair here, he is actually 35, will be 36 in June, not that it really matters all that much . . .
For some reason I read he was 39. That is quite a bit different than 35 in sports. In defense of the Reds, they've been trying to move him for years.
It's going to be really hard to root for the Reds. I bet their ticket sales will be in the toilet.
I'm going to miss Brandon Phillips. MLB Network and Sean Casey was one of them, slammed the deal for the Reds. The 2 they received from Atlanta aren't considered prospects anymore. Ate up 90% of Brandon's remaining contract for the Braves. Bet Cozart is next as they try to fit both Herrera/Peraza in.
Received a pitcher 27 years old, 1 season in MLB 2 years ago and it was terrible. Received another pitcher, 2 Tommy John Surgeries including 1 this past season and all Atlanta had to do was pay $1 million while the Reds pay BP $9 million. They received more for Marlon Byrd. They could have done better for him. He's 35, not 40 so they essentially let him go like he was trash. The Braves would have been fools to not take this trade.
I had no idea they are paying nearly all of his salary too, that is ridiculous!! Where did you see that?
Cincinnati is actually paying $13 million of Brandon's remaining contract & Atlanta just $1 million. Got the money part wrong and it's actually worse, swore I saw 9 mill. Here's 1 of the sources referencing how much they're paying him. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...s-acquire-brandon-phillips-in-deal-with-reds/
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Love Phillips But he should have been gone last year. He had the potential to play on a World Series contender with the Nationals but refused to go?? He knew the Reds wanted to move on with their rebuild but he wouldn't leave. Now he goes to a Braves team that are bad as the Reds. He will not be with the Braves past this year unless he takes a huge cut in salary.
Bigblue
Bigblue
I just hope Mesoraco is feeling better and can finally play again. He was a great player until he had all of the damn injuries.
Adam Duvall is a great player too.
Adam Duvall is a great player too.
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Mesoraco caught some of the spring training game yesterday, I agree, would be a big help if he comes back
Iam into analytics big time. They say Phillips is a below level replacement player. His def. is not close to what is used to be. Range has really declined. Cozart needs to be next to go. This team is gonna take it's lumps big time next few seasons. Let the kids play. I am excited about the future. I think for once the front office is doing things the right way with a full blown rebuild. Time will tell if the draft picks pan out or not.
It's been said by the front office that they want to be contenders by 2018. Not a realistic goal if you ask me. Cincinnati goes through these fire sales all the time since the end of the Big Red Machine era. Only to do it again as soon as a talented player is close to payday. Nothing new this time around. It's fair for us fans to be frustrated with the process. At what point is it going to be enough and we build around a core group of young talent without trading everyone off? Said Frazier was going to be a building piece and later that same year, traded! Think of all of the great talent traded away, only Mez, Votto & Bailey (who got Cueto's money) are left on the team from the playoff runs with Dusty. Bronson Arroyo might be back if he can make the team out of Spring Training. He could be a good mentor to the young pitching. The Reds had one of the worst bullpens in MLB history last season. I doubt he can get too much worse than Simon or Ohlendorf.
I feel that Reds management has been a little bit too conservative with some of their prospects. Leake was an exception but was older having been at Arizona State. Obviously players develop at different rates but it seems to me that other organizations are developing their talent much faster than the Reds. Frazier was 26 his rookie season. Thought Joey Votto was ready in '06 but did not make his debut until September call ups in '07. Felt like Homer Bailey was in a same situation as well. IMO, Robert Stephenson should have been in the rotation last season if not earlier. Point to his AAA struggles but he's already 24. I thought he got complacent in the minors and Chris Welsh echoed the same sentiment in a broadcast last season. He had those couple of good spot starts early last season with the injuries to the rotation but when he was demoted back to Louisville, his season went downward. He was sent down only for the Reds to need a SP immediately after, call up Adelman and someone whose name can't even remember. The management in the front office baffles me sometimes.
If the prospects do pan out, I feel like the organization has some intriguing young arms like Stephenson & Garrett. Maybe Cody Reed will show us something this year if he cracks the rotation. Amir Garrett started the futures game, had a great season and never got called up once rosters expanded. Cincinnati had nothing to play for last season. Just not a fan of delaying the future. Cincinnati has traded a lot of hitting off this past decade but have not done much to replace it. The Reds need to replenish the farm system with some impact bats. They did good acquiring Duvall in a trade. Hopefully we see Nick Senzel sometime soon since he has 3 years of college experience under his belt. I understand at BP's age your not going to get a top prospect for him but the pitchers they received are just minor league depth. They are eating up $13 million out of 14 left on his salary. I'd been alright if they would have just received cash considerations to get his contract off the books. No need for 2 pitchers, one coming off 2 Tommy John Surgeries and the other a disastrous season with the Braves in '15, hasn't been back since.
I feel that Reds management has been a little bit too conservative with some of their prospects. Leake was an exception but was older having been at Arizona State. Obviously players develop at different rates but it seems to me that other organizations are developing their talent much faster than the Reds. Frazier was 26 his rookie season. Thought Joey Votto was ready in '06 but did not make his debut until September call ups in '07. Felt like Homer Bailey was in a same situation as well. IMO, Robert Stephenson should have been in the rotation last season if not earlier. Point to his AAA struggles but he's already 24. I thought he got complacent in the minors and Chris Welsh echoed the same sentiment in a broadcast last season. He had those couple of good spot starts early last season with the injuries to the rotation but when he was demoted back to Louisville, his season went downward. He was sent down only for the Reds to need a SP immediately after, call up Adelman and someone whose name can't even remember. The management in the front office baffles me sometimes.
If the prospects do pan out, I feel like the organization has some intriguing young arms like Stephenson & Garrett. Maybe Cody Reed will show us something this year if he cracks the rotation. Amir Garrett started the futures game, had a great season and never got called up once rosters expanded. Cincinnati had nothing to play for last season. Just not a fan of delaying the future. Cincinnati has traded a lot of hitting off this past decade but have not done much to replace it. The Reds need to replenish the farm system with some impact bats. They did good acquiring Duvall in a trade. Hopefully we see Nick Senzel sometime soon since he has 3 years of college experience under his belt. I understand at BP's age your not going to get a top prospect for him but the pitchers they received are just minor league depth. They are eating up $13 million out of 14 left on his salary. I'd been alright if they would have just received cash considerations to get his contract off the books. No need for 2 pitchers, one coming off 2 Tommy John Surgeries and the other a disastrous season with the Braves in '15, hasn't been back since.
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Should've "given him away" long before his 10/5 vesting. Should never have given him his last contract. Hanging onto and over-paying mid-level talents like BP is what kills smaller market teams - much more so than paying market value for massive centerpiece talents like Votto. I'm afraid they're liable to do the same with Hamilton - especially if he does not show the ability to stay healthy for at least 140 gms/yr and get on base at a minimum of a .320 clip. He (like BP should've been) are the kinds of talent whose talents you should mine while they're still cheap, start cultivating their replacement now (Friedl/Trammell?) and move for a return near the end of their Arb years (if not sooner). My fear is that, like BP, they bow to sentiment and fear of a backlash from casual fans and sign him to a LTC. If he should show more than he has so far (like the ability to OBP .350+ over the course of a season), then the equation changes.
* The Reds biggest mistake when it comes to there build was panicking and not getting a better return for aaoldis Chapman. If you're a smaller market team and you go into such a restructuring/selloff, you MUST come away from it with a very minimum of one marquis young talent - someone who could be a major factor in the direction of your franchise for a decade or more. They did come away with a decent cast of supporting talent (Finnegan, Reed, Peraza, Schebler, Herrera, Davis, Duvall and possibly Mella), but they missed out on a top shelf major prospect. Just looking at the Yankee haul for Aroldis (Torres) or Andrew Miller (Frazier) shows what they should've held out for.
* The reds made a major blunder by not holding Leake out @ L'ville for the first few weeks of his rookie year. Had They done so, they would've have retained his services for an extra season and had him last season to help ease the rebuilding pains or at the very least, gotten a better return if they had still dealt him when they did because he would've had and extra year of control.
* Whether the Reds can return to the hunt for at least a wildcard berth depends largely upon recent statements from new GM Dick Williams and the development of Nick Senzel. Williams has twice in the last couple of weeks said that he expects the Reds to be at a point following this up-coming season where they can start competing for top Free Agents. I'm not sure that they can entice a top FA pitcher to come to Cincy and pitch in the GAB, but if he also means daling for a top arm, he might have something. If Senzel is ready early in 2018, that means you have Suarez, Dilson Herrera and Peraza vying for two spots. In the OF, you also have Duvall, Schebler and Jesse Winker competing for two as well. If two or three young arms step up this season as well, you could offers ome team a package of say, Suarez, Duvall or Scebler and a couple of young starters from among Desclafani, Finnegan, Reed, Garrett, Stephenson, Romano, Davis, Mahle, Travieso, Castillo, Gutierrez or Mella (or one and another young prospect) and you might bring back a TOR starter. Put a #1-type starter in front of Bailey and three of the youngsters mentioned and you might start to contend. A young lineup of Hamilton, Peraza, Votto, Senzel, Schebler/Duvall, Winker, Mesoraco/Barnhart & Herrera might help as well.
*
I believe that the front office has not maximized on the potential returns for their star talent. Wish the Reds would understand quantity most certainly does not mean quality. Brandon Finnegan has been the only contributor to date from the Cueto deal. There are high hopes for Reed despite a rough 2016 campaign and haven't shut the door on him because of 1 bad season. I know how baseball works, takes some guys longer to develop. John Lamb was given his chances and did not show enough to the Reds to warrant staying. Gone after 24 starts. Certainly there's no guarantee that any prospect will pan out but the Reds to have intriguing young arms in the farm system. Agree that the Reds are not likely to attract a top SP into a band box like GABP without overpaying steeply for one. Their best outcome is to acquire arms through the draft or via trade that the team can control. Cincinnati needs a potent offense to use the small park to their advantage. It should be an attractive destination for impact bats looking to see their numbers surge but being a small market team hurts them from signing top tier FA's. Just can't see that ever being the Reds way with the dynamics of their payroll.
Cincinnati could have held onto Chapman until this past trade deadline and let the domestic violence case blow over and that's exactly what happened by the time NYY shipped him to Chicago. No substance to it except him firing a gun in his garage with no one else in there with him. The jury is still out on the Todd Frazier deal. That one will be decided largely on the development of Schebler & Peraza. In hindsight, I don't think the Leake trade was a bad deal because the Reds did acquire Adam Duvall, a diamond in the rough. To be fair, he was considered a man without a position in the Giants organization but at least have something to show for this trade. He made an All Star team as a rookie, an achievement Leake hasn't accomplished yet. Hope to see his batting average rise this year or Reds fans will moan about him like they did Adam Dunn/Jay Bruce for years.
Cincinnati had nothing to play for last season and did not call up Garrett, Herrera or Winker once rosters expanded. There was speculation we might see them make their Major League debuts and it's confusing to me as to the reason for delaying the future. Zack Cozart is still in the equation. He obviously starts at SS but is an expendable trade piece with our IF depth. With him being 32 in August, he's not exactly someone to build around and the Reds have been rumored to shop him around on more than one occasion. Cincinnati shouldn't wait to long to trade him while he still has some years left in his prime. He would be another instance of an older rookie for the Reds I was referring to earlier. I believe NYM were happy to part with Herrera instead of Brandon Nimmo because the Reds were gun shy of his injuries. Nimmo is the #6 rated prospect in their organization. In the 2 years Herrera was called up by the Mets, I saw nothing from him to believe he is a cornerstone piece to a franchise. Probably why NYM were so willing to deal him. Yes he made the Futures team one year but that guarantees nothing. I would love to be convinced that he can even be a contributor at the MLB level, so I can feel better about this trade but just haven't seen it yet. I want to be wrong on him. Time will tell when the Reds finally give him a shot. If Dilson does not cut it, Suarez can slide back over to SS. Pencil in Senzel at 3B when he's ready and Peraza at 2B.
IMO, time to ride out Stephenson & Reed to see if they are going to be the future of the Reds Starting Rotation. Both are having similar Springs, Stephenson is already 24 & Reed will be too next month. Garrett has an ERA in the 2's this spring, is already 24. Romano with an ERA in the 1's and is age 23. Also would like to see them get a crack at the rotation as well. Scott Feldman is quite the same pitcher as Dan Straily was last year. He's here to help the growing pains of a young team as well as be a mentor. However, in a season that is headed no where, youth needs their chance to prove themselves at the MLB level.
Cincinnati could have held onto Chapman until this past trade deadline and let the domestic violence case blow over and that's exactly what happened by the time NYY shipped him to Chicago. No substance to it except him firing a gun in his garage with no one else in there with him. The jury is still out on the Todd Frazier deal. That one will be decided largely on the development of Schebler & Peraza. In hindsight, I don't think the Leake trade was a bad deal because the Reds did acquire Adam Duvall, a diamond in the rough. To be fair, he was considered a man without a position in the Giants organization but at least have something to show for this trade. He made an All Star team as a rookie, an achievement Leake hasn't accomplished yet. Hope to see his batting average rise this year or Reds fans will moan about him like they did Adam Dunn/Jay Bruce for years.
Cincinnati had nothing to play for last season and did not call up Garrett, Herrera or Winker once rosters expanded. There was speculation we might see them make their Major League debuts and it's confusing to me as to the reason for delaying the future. Zack Cozart is still in the equation. He obviously starts at SS but is an expendable trade piece with our IF depth. With him being 32 in August, he's not exactly someone to build around and the Reds have been rumored to shop him around on more than one occasion. Cincinnati shouldn't wait to long to trade him while he still has some years left in his prime. He would be another instance of an older rookie for the Reds I was referring to earlier. I believe NYM were happy to part with Herrera instead of Brandon Nimmo because the Reds were gun shy of his injuries. Nimmo is the #6 rated prospect in their organization. In the 2 years Herrera was called up by the Mets, I saw nothing from him to believe he is a cornerstone piece to a franchise. Probably why NYM were so willing to deal him. Yes he made the Futures team one year but that guarantees nothing. I would love to be convinced that he can even be a contributor at the MLB level, so I can feel better about this trade but just haven't seen it yet. I want to be wrong on him. Time will tell when the Reds finally give him a shot. If Dilson does not cut it, Suarez can slide back over to SS. Pencil in Senzel at 3B when he's ready and Peraza at 2B.
IMO, time to ride out Stephenson & Reed to see if they are going to be the future of the Reds Starting Rotation. Both are having similar Springs, Stephenson is already 24 & Reed will be too next month. Garrett has an ERA in the 2's this spring, is already 24. Romano with an ERA in the 1's and is age 23. Also would like to see them get a crack at the rotation as well. Scott Feldman is quite the same pitcher as Dan Straily was last year. He's here to help the growing pains of a young team as well as be a mentor. However, in a season that is headed no where, youth needs their chance to prove themselves at the MLB level.
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