QB coaching

[gamecockcat]

We seem to have a problem. Whether it's Levis/Coen, Levis/Scang, Leary/Coen or BV/Hamdan, we seem to have QBs who aren't processing what's happening quickly enough and our QB coach/OC isn't able to teach them how to do so. I'm sure it's gone on longer than just the past few years, but, with Stoops wanting to implement more of a passing game that resembles something from this century, we have to depend on the QB to make quick reads and decisions and, for the most part, we haven't had that consistently.

Mike Leach QBs didn't seem to have this problem. Since Fat Boy started coaching TN, their QBs have seemed to be able to make the right reads way more often than not. Georgia QBs don't seem like they hold the ball too long, wait for their WRs to make their cut and create distance before throwing the pass. USC (Trojans) QBs don't have any/many problems with Riley's offense. Is our offense these past few years too complicated? Are the QB coach and OC unable to teach it properly? Are we asking our QBs to process too much information and make too many pre- and post-snap instantaneous decisions that they are not capable of and, thus, end up not playing quickly enough? Can we simplify the system/reads for the QB to enable them to process/play faster and, as a result, get rid of the ball quicker to the right receiver?

I did not watch the Georgia game as I, completely wrongly as it turned out and I deserve all the derision this board can supply, suspected a rout was imminent (also had out of town company that day and didn't want to be completely rude) so I don't know if this problem was evident Saturday. But, certainly against the 'Cocks, BV did not seem to be able to process what their defense was doing quickly enough to either 1) check out of the called play to a better one, 2) identify/throw to the hot receiver, 3) check down to a back or TE at/near the LOS in the hopes of picking up a few yards. At his best, Levis still was a bit slow processing what was happening during a play and would, a few times every game it seemed to me, miss the 2nd or 3rd option breaking wide open. Leary clearly had problems last year getting through his progressions and knowing where to go with the ball before the snap.

Certainly an OL that is shaky doesn't help. But, are the receivers on the same page and making the same reads as the QB or are they continuing on the planned route when they should be seeing that a blitz is coming and they are the hot receiver and need to break off their route? If someone with a lot more knowledge (a low bar) of the technical aspects of QB play could perhaps offer some insight, that would be great.

 

[K_TIME]

I agree our qb getting coached up is an obvious deficiency under Stoops over multiple years

But what was wrong with 2021 Levi’s and Coen….I thought that was a splendid qb performance year….especially down the stretch….Levi’s was a machine

 

[gamecockcat]

My recollection, and it's very possible that it's flawed, was Will looked at Wandale and then took off running many times. Didn't check down, didn't throw to the TEs, didn't appear to get through progressions when Wandale was covered or taking a breather, etc. He did fine, of course, but there were a lot of grumblings when things weren't clicking that he held the ball too long, didn't seem to see the whole field and similar comments. Again, maybe it's my faulty memory at work. Got much worse under Scang. Whether that was due to worse OL, no Wandale (obvious #1 target and mismatch for most opponents) or what, hard to say.

Leary didn't seem to have any clue regarding pre-snap reads and constantly held the ball too long. Heck, it would take 10+ seconds to call the play in the huddle at times.

Everything seems to happen too quickly for BV. By the time he processes and makes a decision, the situation is, many times, different. He's not anticipating and throwing to spots where the receiver is supposed to be. He's waiting.

It seems like our QBs are not able to just play in our offense. They're stricken with paralysis by analysis.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Imo its all lack of continuity. Qb lack of continuity comes from the modern day cfb situation we're in where we basically buy a physically talented qb who has to come learn a new system. 2 of the 3 barely had any game snaps. Lack of continuity from at the oc hurts the rest of the offense.

Op is correct about levis' progressions or lack thereof. In his first year, it was wandale or run. All in all not an awful set of choices but he wasnt getting developed as a qb. Scang comes in and tries to get him ready for the nfl by making him read at least half the field. Resulted in him holding onto the ball way too long taking tons of sacks the ol was blamed for.

In comes coen pt 2 and leary. Now the continuity issue hits both QB and wr learning a different system and each other. Leary had a very good season if you remove the historically high drop rate and consider how many times our wrs ran the wrong route, wrong dept, and the forced deep ball attempts to brown. The other thing all those drops and wrong routes cause is mistrust from the qb. The whole product was maybe half as good as it should be. The final touch was an inexplicable lack of using an incredible rb even to the point he went to Twitter to complain.

In comes bush and brock. Brock is physically gifted but is scared to make a mistake. He waits till guys are open to let it go, which is too late vs the sec. Just look at the decisions on our final real drive. If he throws that wr screen at the end of the game, we are absolutely in fg range. If he anticipates that mesh coming open and throws it, thats at least a 25 yard gain and we might even score a td on that play. It was that wide open.

If we can keep brock and bush together one more year, the offense should look much better next season but we will probably lose a bunch of pieces.

Imo our next window to be really good is with boley or stone developing. That way you have a qb in the system for a bit that isnt having to learn on the job

 

[gobigbluebell]

I have a feeling, if we were able to watch the tape, we would find some of the blame goes to the WRs. You can see some of it in the games. I’m not sure we have anybody who can run a route. Maybe Maclin.

We need to develop to WRs and QBs.

I don’t understand how someone like Barrion Brown, with all that speed and potential, hasn’t developed a bit in 3 years. It would have to be his fault for not putting in the work after practice, yea?

 

[gamecockcat]

I have a feeling, if we were able to watch the tape, we would find some of the blame goes to the WRs. You can see some of it in the games. I’m not sure we have anybody who can run a route. Maybe Maclin.

We need to develop to WRs and QBs.

I don’t understand how someone like Barrion Brown, with all that speed and potential, hasn’t developed a bit in 3 years. It would have to be his fault for not putting in the work after practice, yea?

Good insight. I, too, wonder if the WRs are not making the correct reads and Brock has no idea where they'll be so he waits to be sure. Brown, while explosive, still seems to round off routes, drops very catchable balls (dropped a sure 15+ yard gain that almost ended up being an INT vs. Georgia), will fumble on occasion, etc. He's got all the tools to be a great college WR but, as you said, hasn't progressed as quickly as many of us hoped and expected. Key is solid but, imo, he's more of a possession WR who should be working slants and crosses. He's got good speed, I believe, but not take-the-top-off-the-defense speed like Brown possesses. Maclin should be working underneath, shallow crosses, quick hitches to get him the ball in space so he can make a move and get YAC.

 

[jeffky]

We seem to have a problem. Whether it's Levis/Coen, Levis/Scang, Leary/Coen or BV/Hamdan, we seem to have QBs who aren't processing what's happening quickly enough and our QB coach/OC isn't able to teach them how to do so. I'm sure it's gone on longer than just the past few years, but, with Stoops wanting to implement more of a passing game that resembles something from this century, we have to depend on the QB to make quick reads and decisions and, for the most part, we haven't had that consistently.

Mike Leach QBs didn't seem to have this problem. Since Fat Boy started coaching TN, their QBs have seemed to be able to make the right reads way more often than not. Georgia QBs don't seem like they hold the ball too long, wait for their WRs to make their cut and create distance before throwing the pass. USC (Trojans) QBs don't have any/many problems with Riley's offense. Is our offense these past few years too complicated? Are the QB coach and OC unable to teach it properly? Are we asking our QBs to process too much information and make too many pre- and post-snap instantaneous decisions that they are not capable of and, thus, end up not playing quickly enough? Can we simplify the system/reads for the QB to enable them to process/play faster and, as a result, get rid of the ball quicker to the right receiver?

I did not watch the Georgia game as I, completely wrongly as it turned out and I deserve all the derision this board can supply, suspected a rout was imminent (also had out of town company that day and didn't want to be completely rude) so I don't know if this problem was evident Saturday. But, certainly against the 'Cocks, BV did not seem to be able to process what their defense was doing quickly enough to either 1) check out of the called play to a better one, 2) identify/throw to the hot receiver, 3) check down to a back or TE at/near the LOS in the hopes of picking up a few yards. At his best, Levis still was a bit slow processing what was happening during a play and would, a few times every game it seemed to me, miss the 2nd or 3rd option breaking wide open. Leary clearly had problems last year getting through his progressions and knowing where to go with the ball before the snap.

Certainly an OL that is shaky doesn't help. But, are the receivers on the same page and making the same reads as the QB or are they continuing on the planned route when they should be seeing that a blitz is coming and they are the hot receiver and need to break off their route? If someone with a lot more knowledge (a low bar) of the technical aspects of QB play could perhaps offer some insight, that would be great.

Every year we have this problem stoops is horrible with big time potential qbs bring back Eddie gran and let's put a slot back in for qb

 

[FanofUK]

They have to speed up, and we need more routes that develop faster and hit the middle of the field more.
But if the line can give 1 more second would be super helpful.

 

[gamecockcat]

^Certainly I agree that we need to have some plays that are snap, 1 count, throw to a spot for a quick few yards. Takes some of the pressure off the OL to maintain blocks, keeps the rush from just pinning their ears back and, who knows, one of WRs may break a tackle and go for 15 or more yards.

 

[Soupbean]

I think a lot of it is young QB's learing how to throw guys open instead of standing there waiting for daylight. You arent going to get much daylight in the SEC and even if you do you cant last minute gun in there. You have to learn to see thing that are about to be instead of waiting for open receivers. But thats not easy especially after guys like Brock have thrown a couple of picks which makes them want to hang on to the ball even longer to be safe.

I wish we'd use more 1 read pass patterns for him. We ran one 7 yard out early in the game to perfection, on time easy first down catch. Brock had one job, catch the snap and get it out to his spot on time. Its beyond me why we and other teams dont wear out the quick out patterns more. You could quick out and slant your way down the field and never worry about the rush on any of them.

You can add in some one read back shoulder throws down the sidelines too for the same purpose. Let the guy get it out quick and in rhythm before the rush gets there.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

We seem to have a problem. Whether it's Levis/Coen, Levis/Scang, Leary/Coen or BV/Hamdan, we seem to have QBs who aren't processing what's happening quickly enough and our QB coach/OC isn't able to teach them how to do so. I'm sure it's gone on longer than just the past few years, but, with Stoops wanting to implement more of a passing game that resembles something from this century, we have to depend on the QB to make quick reads and decisions and, for the most part, we haven't had that consistently.

Mike Leach QBs didn't seem to have this problem. Since Fat Boy started coaching TN, their QBs have seemed to be able to make the right reads way more often than not. Georgia QBs don't seem like they hold the ball too long, wait for their WRs to make their cut and create distance before throwing the pass. USC (Trojans) QBs don't have any/many problems with Riley's offense. Is our offense these past few years too complicated? Are the QB coach and OC unable to teach it properly? Are we asking our QBs to process too much information and make too many pre- and post-snap instantaneous decisions that they are not capable of and, thus, end up not playing quickly enough? Can we simplify the system/reads for the QB to enable them to process/play faster and, as a result, get rid of the ball quicker to the right receiver?

I did not watch the Georgia game as I, completely wrongly as it turned out and I deserve all the derision this board can supply, suspected a rout was imminent (also had out of town company that day and didn't want to be completely rude) so I don't know if this problem was evident Saturday. But, certainly against the 'Cocks, BV did not seem to be able to process what their defense was doing quickly enough to either 1) check out of the called play to a better one, 2) identify/throw to the hot receiver, 3) check down to a back or TE at/near the LOS in the hopes of picking up a few yards. At his best, Levis still was a bit slow processing what was happening during a play and would, a few times every game it seemed to me, miss the 2nd or 3rd option breaking wide open. Leary clearly had problems last year getting through his progressions and knowing where to go with the ball before the snap.

Certainly an OL that is shaky doesn't help. But, are the receivers on the same page and making the same reads as the QB or are they continuing on the planned route when they should be seeing that a blitz is coming and they are the hot receiver and need to break off their route? If someone with a lot more knowledge (a low bar) of the technical aspects of QB play could perhaps offer some insight, that would be great.

Those programs have coaches who know how to coach offense. We don't.

 

[rolaid]

All great points - we need better blockers - shorter routes - a QB with football instincts

 

[YardCat]

All great points - we need better blockers - shorter routes - a QB with football instincts

You can add that the QB’s don’t watch enough tape to recognize what defense they are playing. Add them together and that makes for a nasty recipe. Don’t forget a touch of a coach with no nuts.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Guys we're on 12 years of blaming all sorts of different QBs, OCs, and systems.

At some point everyone is going to have to realize that it may not be the individuals who have come and gone, but the few constants that have been here.

Cowherd had a great segment today, and he has talked about it before concerning NFL. Some franchises get QB and offensive development, some don't.

I think Stoops, Marrow, and Gran don't get modern day passing and QB first/oriented offense. From recruiting said QB and developing him to building an offense around him. I know those guys aren't the "offensive coordinators" but they are the only constants, and I believe they have some influence in things which is why we can't keep an OC and can barely sniff 25 TDs passing...it's only happened twice since Stoops has been here.

They get defense and run game. Consistent production via passing game alludes them.

Don't try to tell me BV wouldn't be putting up numbers at UGA had Beck gone pro, at Ole Miss under Kiffin, UT under Heupel, etc...Same goes for leary who tore it up at NC ST, and Levis who did well enough here to get drafted and a starting gig but would've been drafted higher and put up better numbers under any of those guys.

 

[Jeff Sykes]

Here is how I look at it. All of those QB's listed are transfer portal QB's. Which means they were in the portal for a reason. That reason is they weren't going to start at their previous school which means there was a reason for that. Maybe that reason is exactly what we are seeing with them now. They just can't compute things fast enough or at all. So they have flaws basically that kept them from being staters previously. Most all came from traditional power schools except maybe Leary and they couldn't coach them up there and we expect basically a first year or unproven OC to coach them up. Not happening.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I have a feeling, if we were able to watch the tape, we would find some of the blame goes to the WRs. You can see some of it in the games. I’m not sure we have anybody who can run a route. Maybe Maclin.

We need to develop to WRs and QBs.

I don’t understand how someone like Barrion Brown, with all that speed and potential, hasn’t developed a bit in 3 years. It would have to be his fault for not putting in the work after practice, yea?

Last year? Absolutely. This year maclin and either key or farrier are probably the best wr we have. Brown is great at special teams but is the 4th best wr.

Maclin, key, and farrier all made very, very good plays against both zone and man.

Wr are legit this year.

They have to speed up, and we need more routes that develop faster and hit the middle of the field more.
But if the line can give 1 more second would be super helpful.

Definitely. We've shown the tendency to counter blitz with max protect and deep shots. Teams saw our tendency and countered with overloads. Last game looked like brock slid protection wrong way and ended up with kattus on a dl which ended like youd think.

Imo we should counter with throwing hot. With 3 of the wr we have a slant could go for a huge gain or td.

 

[Cleatortoises]

Despite talking a good game for years, we still haven't thrown a pass to a tight end.

 

[Cleatortoises]

Whalen and Tamme were able to do it. It can be done. These bro's just will not.

 

[Cleatortoises]

We've won 10 games twice with this coach. Good.
The qb had better be able to run, or we won't with this coach. So let's get that player and accept the truth.

 

[RunninRichie]

Guys we're on 12 years of blaming all sorts of different QBs, OCs, and systems.

At some point everyone is going to have to realize that it may not be the individuals who have come and gone, but the few constants that have been here.

Cowherd had a great segment today, and he has talked about it before concerning NFL. Some franchises get QB and offensive development, some don't.

I think Stoops, Marrow, and Gran don't get modern day passing and QB first/oriented offense. From recruiting said QB and developing him to building an offense around him. I know those guys aren't the "offensive coordinators" but they are the only constants, and I believe they have some influence in things which is why we can't keep an OC and can barely sniff 25 TDs passing...it's only happened twice since Stoops has been here.

They get defense and run game. Consistent production via passing game alludes them.

Don't try to tell me BV wouldn't be putting up numbers at UGA had Beck gone pro, at Ole Miss under Kiffin, UT under Heupel, etc...Same goes for leary who tore it up at NC ST, and Levis who did well enough here to get drafted and a starting gig but would've been drafted higher and put up better numbers under any of those guys.

Levis would have won the heisman under Heupel.

 

[KyCatFan]

I'm afraid we could have Joe Montana, Brett Favre, an Peyton Manning coaching our QB's under Stoops and we'd still struggle. Stoops is the only common denominator over these 12 years with a half a dozen or so offensive coordinators. He's defense first, second, third, fourth, and then maybe offense fifth. Saban was just like him and even he was able to change. Your supposed to change with the times or get left behind. We're getting ready to be lapped as far back as we are.