O-Linemen are Sooooo Valuable

[UKWinsAgainYep]

Watching the replay it is amazing to me how O-Linemen can change a football team completely. I repeatedly saw big George on the right side seal off his man and open up holes for Boom, Kemp, and Horton. The guy is just a Freshman.

That one recruit, which we would never have signed under Brooks or Joker, is a huge reason we ran the ball so well against SC and scored points.

I know the other O-Linemen played better against SC too, but it's just amazing to me how a very talented O-Line is really the difference between a lot of wins and losses.

I am soooo giddy about the O-Linemen that we are signing under Coach Stoops. This is going to mean some very prolific offenses coming to Lexington very soon.

 

[ZZZZCat]

Agreed. Gotta win on both sides of the trenches in the SEC.

 

[zannmann]

That's the old saying "football is won and lost in the trenches".

 

[southindycat]

It is a fact. You can win with quite ordinary skill position players when the line is first rate. Frankly, the thing that makes some MAC schools most dangerous at times is their ability to RS and field a couple of nice lines built on well chosen kids who matured into men that can cope with any opposition. Pay attention sometime when NFL OL are being introduced, and notice the number of non-Power 5 conference offensive linemen that show up in particular. My perception has always been that the number is extraordinary. I'd like to see some hard numbers some time.

The greatest failing of our program, even in times of relative prosperity, has been the failure to attract and develop a wealth of first rate linemen on both sides of the ball. You can see that changing before your eyes now, and the fact that we have some young first rate skill position players makes even the very near future begin to look limitless to me.

 

[StubbornPenny]

Build from the inside out, and you'll be successful. Stoops seems to understand this. A great O-line makes a C+ running back look like an A. Ask Trent Richardson....

 

[maysvilleky]

Dallas let DeMarco Murray go just for that reason. They felt their O-line could make a good back more than serviceable without having to overpay.

 

[Comebakatz3]

It is a fact. You can win with quite ordinary skill position players when the line is first rate. Frankly, the thing that makes some MAC schools most dangerous at times is their ability to RS and field a couple of nice lines built on well chosen kids who matured into men that can cope with any opposition. Pay attention sometime when NFL OL are being introduced, and notice the number of non-Power 5 conference offensive linemen that show up in particular. My perception has always been that the number is extraordinary. I'd like to see some hard numbers some time.

The greatest failing of our program, even in times of relative prosperity, has been the failure to attract and develop a wealth of first rate linemen on both sides of the ball. You can see that changing before your eyes now, and the fact that we have some young first rate skill position players makes even the very near future begin to look limitless to me.

I went through each team and checked. I believe there are about 85 offensive linemen from non-power 5 conferences on active NFL rosters. That is a rough count. There might be a few I missed. Not sure how many total OL there are in the NFL or the percentage.

 

[THE_OAK]

With the talent we have added with the incoming talent our OL will be in good shape in the coming years. We have a lot of young talent on the OL, just hope they stay healthy and keep improving.

 

[WildcatDJ]

Our first TD drive Saturday reminded me of many of Ohio State's drives last year where their OL just demoralized the defense. Great blocking on that drive, and it was a beautiful sight to behold.

 

[UKWinsAgainYep]

With the talent we have added with the incoming talent our OL will be in good shape in the coming years. We have a lot of young talent on the OL, just hope they stay healthy and keep improving.

The incoming O-Line talent is so far ahead of anything I've seen in 30 years as a UK football fan. Really going to enjoy watching our offense in the future.

 

[Oldtrainer]

I believe we have some Ray Correll and Bob Gains o-line talent!

 

[TrollCat]

Great thread.

 

[Blue Decade]

The incoming O-Line talent is so far ahead of anything I've seen in 30 years as a UK football fan. Really going to enjoy watching our offense in the future.

I agree with you, but the key is in the future. Leavitt, GAA, Meyers, and Toth will start in 2016. The 5th starter could be Meadows or Haynes. If Meadows starts, then GAA moves inside, probably our best combination. Jackson, Young, Fortner will redshirt in 2016.

 

[Pulaski Cat Fan]

I agree with you, but the key is in the future. Leavitt, GAA, Meyers, and Toth will start in 2016. The 5th starter could be Meadows or Haynes. If Meadows starts, then GAA moves inside, probably our best combination. Jackson, Young, Fortner will redshirt in 2016.

Reading this, it just puts the upgrade of talent in the o-line into perspective. I'm 42 years old and I've never seen the collection of line talent that we will have at UK. I'm excited as can be to see how these guys develop and take this program to new heights.

 

[Comebakatz3]

I don't want to rag on anyone, but if you want to see how important the O-line is then go watch the 2nd drive of the 2nd half. Every play was poorly executed by the offensive line, particularly the left side. First West gets a holding call. Then on 1st and 20 the DT squeezes by West and Swindle to blow up a run play and force it outside. On 2nd and 18 West gets beat to the inside on a run play and once again the play is bounced outside for little to no gain. Then on 3rd and long UK tries a WR screen. Toth is supposed to block a DT and West is supposed to get upfield to block for the WR. Toth never gets in front of the DT to block him (West may have had some fault in this) and the DT runs to the flat to stop the play for no gain. If this block is made then UK probably gets a huge gain, at least a first down from what I can tell.

Now, in the first half you can look at numerous drives and see where the OL did extremely well, but when we struggled in the second half it had a lot to do with the OL not getting a key block here or there. That will happen, but cannot happen on 3-4 plays in a row. I am not sure what was going on and why they were getting beat. I believe it was USC's number 95 that pretty much beat our O-line that entire series. So, maybe part of the problem was that USC was able to anticipate the snap count and get off the ball quicker. Whatever it was, it really killed our offense.

 

[Rhavicc]

I don't want to rag on anyone, but if you want to see how important the O-line is then go watch the 2nd drive of the 2nd half. Every play was poorly executed by the offensive line, particularly the left side. First West gets a holding call. Then on 1st and 20 the DT squeezes by West and Swindle to blow up a run play and force it outside. On 2nd and 18 West gets beat to the inside on a run play and once again the play is bounced outside for little to no gain. Then on 3rd and long UK tries a WR screen. Toth is supposed to block a DT and West is supposed to get upfield to block for the WR. Toth never gets in front of the DT to block him (West may have had some fault in this) and the DT runs to the flat to stop the play for no gain. If this block is made then UK probably gets a huge gain, at least a first down from what I can tell.

Now, in the first half you can look at numerous drives and see where the OL did extremely well, but when we struggled in the second half it had a lot to do with the OL not getting a key block here or there. That will happen, but cannot happen on 3-4 plays in a row. I am not sure what was going on and why they were getting beat. I believe it was USC's number 95 that pretty much beat our O-line that entire series. So, maybe part of the problem was that USC was able to anticipate the snap count and get off the ball quicker. Whatever it was, it really killed our offense.

It should be fixed. Dawson feels comfortable that it'll get fixed before this weekend, but it's important not to over-emphasize it and let it run its course. It's not a problem for as long as we're winning, it'll be worked on, but it becomes a problem when we're losing because of it, or when you persist that it is an issue.
That said, credit South Carolina. They have talented d-linemen.

Marquavius Lewis, #2 overall JUCO, #2 SDE
Dexter Wideman, #1 overall JUCO, #1 SDE
Kelsey Griffin, #85 overall out of high school, #5 DT
Shameik Blackshear, #151 overall out of high school, #10 WDE
Dante Sawyer, #15 overall JUCO, #2 WDE
Skai Moore, one of the best linebackers in the SEC to this point
Larenz Bryant, #107 overall out of high school, #10 OLB

It's safe to say, Kentucky battled against its fair share of talented players in the trenches, and for the most part, dominated. I feel significantly more comfortable about our o-line, and I think we're seeing a budding star in GAA to boot. We'll see him against one of the most highly regarded DE's in this past class on Saturday, and I more than think that he'll hold his own.

 

[Blue Decade]

I don't want to rag on anyone, but if you want to see how important the O-line is then go watch the 2nd drive of the 2nd half. Every play was poorly executed by the offensive line, particularly the left side. INow, in the first half you can look at numerous drives and see where the OL did extremely well, but when we struggled in the second half it had a lot to do with the OL not getting a key block here or there.

For 2 weeks in a row, our offensive line has played better in the 1st half than the 2nd half and it impacted the flow of both games. Especially South Carolina. The problem is not coaching or play calling. It is execution. Penalties by our offensive linemen in the 3rd quarter put us in bad down and distance situations, and killed our momentum. There were some blown assignments. In August, when everyone was full of bravado about our offensive weapons, I and others warned that our offensive line will be the key to our season. In 2014, Towles was sacked more than any other SEC quarterback. Already this year, Towles has been sacked more than any other SEC quarterback except Kyle Allen. Towles is hurried in the pocket on almost every pass. The 1st quarter interception against South Carolina was caused because he was hit while throwing by a defensive end who blew past Swindle. Our offensive line run blocks better than it pass blocks. This is why we ran the ball down both opponents' throats in the 1st half. But both opponents made halftime adjustments and brought their safeties closer to the line. We have enough talent to beat Florida and Missouri, but mental errors and sloppy mistakes have to get cleaned up. It's still early, and most teams are facing these kinds of problems. We just need to keep improving.

 

[Blue Decade]

It should be fixed. Dawson feels comfortable that it'll get fixed before this weekend, but it's important not to over-emphasize it and let it run its course. It's not a problem for as long as we're winning, it'll be worked on, but it becomes a problem when we're losing because of it, or when you persist that it is an issue.
That said, credit South Carolina. They have talented d-linemen.

Marquavius Lewis, #2 overall JUCO, #2 SDE
Dexter Wideman, #1 overall JUCO, #1 SDE
Kelsey Griffin, #85 overall out of high school, #5 DT
Shameik Blackshear, #151 overall out of high school, #10 WDE
Dante Sawyer, #15 overall JUCO, #2 WDE
Skai Moore, one of the best linebackers in the SEC to this point
Larenz Bryant, #107 overall out of high school, #10 OLB

It's safe to say, Kentucky battled against its fair share of talented players in the trenches, and for the most part, dominated. I feel significantly more comfortable about our o-line, and I think we're seeing a budding star in GAA to boot. We'll see him against one of the most highly regarded DE's in this past class on Saturday, and I more than think that he'll hold his own.

I think you will find that Florida's defensive front is better than South Carolina's. We have to cut out the sloppy penalties up front, and we have to throw the football successfully enough to keep their linebackers and secondary conscious of our intermediate and deep pass threats for 4 quarters. If we do, then we will run the ball successfully, and we can win again this week.

 

[Comebakatz3]

It was Dante Sawyer and Taylor Stallworth that gave us fits on that drive. Sawyer was in on first down when USC was in a nickel package. He was playing defensive tackle, despite being listed as an end. On first and 20 Stallworth came in and USC switched to a standard 4-3 defense. He blew up both run plays on 1st and 2nd down. Then on third down Sawyer replaced him and they went back to a nickel. Sawyer made the play on our WR on the outside.

I am mostly pointing this out as a good example of how important an offensive line really is. Towles and the skill players did what they could, but without the proper blocking the plays simply could not work. I think they o-line overall is not bad, but what cannot happen is making multiple mistakes in a row. A holding call can kill a drive, but it is even worse if you continue to make mistakes on the same drive. Just like a receiver who drops a pass... you have to forget about it and go out there and make up for it on the next one.

All that said, bringing in big time OL recruits, like UK is doing, isn't flashy, but it is the real key to our future success. It will take some time for those guys to get in here and make a difference because OL is tough to play and you have to learn to trust one another, but when it comes together it will make us a much better football team.

 

[Rhavicc]

I think you will find that Florida's defensive front is better than South Carolina's. We have to cut out the sloppy penalties up front, and we have to throw the football successfully enough to keep their linebackers and secondary conscious of our intermediate and deep pass threats for 4 quarters. If we do, then we will run the ball successfully, and we can win again this week.

Both have strengths and weaknesses. Main thing for South Carolina in the front 7 is the pass defense. Florida's linebackers are seemingly atrocious at defending the pass, which is why I think it's big to get Conrad involved in the passing game. I think the motions that Kentucky uses will certainly give fits. Florida will have to play defense a bit differently than they have in these past 2 games. Nearly all of Kentucky's offensive plays are run-pass option plays that Towles will call after seeing the defense.
Also, the motions that UK sends the offense in prior to the snap can cause some issues for Florida's defense to disguise, making reads easier for the playmakers. Should even help the o-line figure out who they need to block downfield prior to the snap. Probably a lot of our rushing success is based on the motions that UK uses, and often having numbers in the backfield.

Off note a bit, but I checked the Florida boards. There were quite a few fans that really didn't know even what formation Kentucky typically runs its offense out of. A lot of them haven't seen offenses line up like that very often. It's nice to have something different. Advantageous as well, but pretty neat. I was a bit surprised as well initially.

 

[Poetax]

I don't want to rag on anyone, but if you want to see how important the O-line is then go watch the 2nd drive of the 2nd half. Every play was poorly executed by the offensive line, particularly the left side. First West gets a holding call. Then on 1st and 20 the DT squeezes by West and Swindle to blow up a run play and force it outside. On 2nd and 18 West gets beat to the inside on a run play and once again the play is bounced outside for little to no gain. Then on 3rd and long UK tries a WR screen. Toth is supposed to block a DT and West is supposed to get upfield to block for the WR. Toth never gets in front of the DT to block him (West may have had some fault in this) and the DT runs to the flat to stop the play for no gain. If this block is made then UK probably gets a huge gain, at least a first down from what I can tell.

Now, in the first half you can look at numerous drives and see where the OL did extremely well, but when we struggled in the second half it had a lot to do with the OL not getting a key block here or there. That will happen, but cannot happen on 3-4 plays in a row. I aikm not sure what was going on and why they were getting beat. I believe it was USC's number 95 that pretty much beat our O-line that entire series. So, maybe part of the problem was that USC was able to anticipate the snap count and get off the ball quicker. Whatever it was, it really killed our offense.

Yeah it's one position that mistakes are easily seen. But when you get to the place where you can redshirt great line talent, that's when you see a team take control in the trenches.

 

[Blue Decade]

Both have strengths and weaknesses. Main thing for South Carolina in the front 7 is the pass defense. Florida's linebackers are seemingly atrocious at defending the pass, which is why I think it's big to get Conrad involved in the passing game. I think the motions that Kentucky uses will certainly give fits. Florida will have to play defense a bit differently than they have in these past 2 games. Nearly all of Kentucky's offensive plays are run-pass option plays that Towles will call after seeing the defense.
Also, the motions that UK sends the offense in prior to the snap can cause some issues for Florida's defense to disguise, making reads easier for the playmakers. Should even help the o-line figure out who they need to block downfield prior to the snap. Probably a lot of our rushing success is based on the motions that UK uses, and often having numbers in the backfield.

Off note a bit, but I checked the Florida boards. There were quite a few fans that really didn't know even what formation Kentucky typically runs its offense out of. A lot of them haven't seen offenses line up like that very often. It's nice to have something different. Advantageous as well, but pretty neat. I was a bit surprised as well initially.

Florida's fans might not know what Kentucky runs, but McElwain's staff have thoroughly scouted us. They know they could lose this game, and they will throw the kitchen sink. Florida's front 7 will be the best we have faced so far. Florida's linebackers are not atrocious, and we won't beat them with our tight ends. There is nothing wrong with that idea, except that it is unrealistic to expect 2 freshmen who have never caught a single college pass to become a decisive factor in our passing game against a good SEC defense this Saturday. However, Dawson hasn't shown a lot of his play book yet. There will be some new wrinkles on Saturday. We really just need to execute better and play well for 4 quarters. Florida still has a stronger roster than we currently have, but there isn't enough difference anymore to overcome our home field advantage if we play well. And I just point out the importance of Lewis, Forrest, and Stamps in the middle of our defense. All 3 are playing like all SEC players. As our younger defensive players improve around them, this can be a pretty good SEC defense.

 

[Rhavicc]

Florida's fans might not know what Kentucky runs, but McElwain's staff have thoroughly scouted us. They know they could lose this game, and they will throw the kitchen sink. Florida's front 7 will be the best we have faced so far. Florida's linebackers are not atrocious, and we won't beat them with our tight ends. There is nothing wrong with that idea, except that it is unrealistic to expect 2 freshmen who have never caught a single college pass to become a decisive factor in our passing game against a good SEC defense this Saturday. However, Dawson hasn't shown a lot of his play book yet. There will be some new wrinkles on Saturday. We really just need to execute better and play well for 4 quarters. Florida still has a stronger roster than we currently have, but there isn't enough difference anymore to overcome our home field advantage if we play well. And I just point out the importance of Lewis, Forrest, and Stamps in the middle of our defense. All 3 are playing like all SEC players. As our younger defensive players improve around them, this can be a pretty good SEC defense.

I didn't say that their linebackers are atrocious, I said they're atrocious at defending the pass. They're solid against the run, which is why we need to get Conrad involved. We've seen his athleticism, we've seen his size, the coaches know he can catch a football, so he's going to get passes thrown his way.
Yes, of course there will be new wrinkles. The QB's are becoming more comfortable with the playbook (which Dawson said is his primary focus when calling plays, and he defers the selection of plays that will be used in the game to the quarterbacks), and more plays are simply being put into the fold.
The guys you listed on defense are important, but I'm excited for the return of Flannigan and Hatcher especially. I can't overstate how important their return is.

 

[Comebakatz3]

It is hard to say who will step up for UK in this game and I don't think you can easily write off the tight ends. I am not sure how many catches Johnson had before the UF game last year, but I don't remember him having a big impact until the UF game. However, IIRC a lot of his impact came in the middle of the field. UK may look to do that again with Conrad. I think it is just dependent upon how much time UK can get with 3 and 4 wide receiver sets. If the O-line cannot give enough time then we may need to spend more time on that inverted wishbone pistol and have Conrad come out of that formation into a passing pattern. That keeps Collins in to pass block, as well as possibly the RB.

As a side note, the new UKathletics.com website sucks. I hate it. I used to love being able to go back and look at stats from previous years. Can't do that anymore (at least not at the moment). Just not a fan.

 

[Rhavicc]

It is hard to say who will step up for UK in this game and I don't think you can easily write off the tight ends. I am not sure how many catches Johnson had before the UF game last year, but I don't remember him having a big impact until the UF game. However, IIRC a lot of his impact came in the middle of the field. UK may look to do that again with Conrad. I think it is just dependent upon how much time UK can get with 3 and 4 wide receiver sets. If the O-line cannot give enough time then we may need to spend more time on that inverted wishbone pistol and have Conrad come out of that formation into a passing pattern. That keeps Collins in to pass block, as well as possibly the RB.

As a side note, the new UKathletics.com website sucks. I hate it. I used to love being able to go back and look at stats from previous years. Can't do that anymore (at least not at the moment). Just not a fan.

cfbstats.com

 

[Comebakatz3]

cfbstats.com

I have only looked at the website a little, but is there a way to actually see stats for individual games? The UK website used to have some pretty extensive ways of looking at stats. Not sure if they just haven't had the time to add all of that information back to the website or if they are just getting rid of it entirely.

 

[Blue Decade]

I didn't say that their linebackers are atrocious, I said they're atrocious at defending the pass. They're solid against the run, which is why we need to get Conrad involved. We've seen his athleticism, we've seen his size, the coaches know he can catch a football, so he's going to get passes thrown his way.
Yes, of course there will be new wrinkles. The QB's are becoming more comfortable with the playbook (which Dawson said is his primary focus when calling plays, and he defers the selection of plays that will be used in the game to the quarterbacks), and more plays are simply being put into the fold.
The guys you listed on defense are important, but I'm excited for the return of Flannigan and Hatcher especially. I can't overstate how important their return is.

Florida's linebackers are not atrocious in any phase. They are stronger against the run, as many linebackers are. Two freshmen who have never caught a college pass won't suddenly become keys to our passing game this week. Later in the season, I agree they should help us. There is no guarantee that Flannigan will play this week, or how effective he will be after missing contact for a month. Hatcher will have to fight for playing time, because Denzil and Jabari are playing well. Hatcher won't start. I don't dispute that Hatcher can be an important contributor, but I want to see him actually do it before I am sold. The big keys to this game are the same players who have been getting it done in weeks 1 and 2, but we have to stay focused and avoid sloppy 2nd half mental mistakes. I don't see this getting settled today. It will be resolved on Saturday. Enjoy the game. And let us know if you hear from Marcylus Jones.

 

[Rhavicc]

I have only looked at the website a little, but is there a way to actually see stats for individual games? The UK website used to have some pretty extensive ways of looking at stats. Not sure if they just haven't had the time to add all of that information back to the website or if they are just getting rid of it entirely.

Yeah, under every category (rushing, passing, receiving, place kicking, etc.) they have game logs, and it goes back to 2008.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Build from the inside out, and you'll be successful. Stoops seems to understand this. A great O-line makes a C+ running back look like an A. Ask Trent Richardson....

Trent Richardson has proven to be so damn blind in the NFL I don't know how he had the success he did in college. It's like he goes out of his way to avoid the holes.

 

[Rhavicc]

Florida's linebackers are not atrocious in any phase. They are stronger against the run, as many linebackers are. Two freshmen who have never caught a college pass won't suddenly become keys to our passing game this week. Later in the season, I agree they should help us. There is no guarantee that Flannigan will play this week, or how effective he will be after missing contact for a month. Hatcher will have to fight for playing time, because Denzil and Jabari are playing well. Hatcher won't start. I don't dispute that Hatcher can be an important contributor, but I want to see him actually do it before I am sold. The big keys to this game are the same players who have been getting it done in weeks 1 and 2, but we have to stay focused and avoid sloppy 2nd half mental mistakes. I don't see this getting settled today. It will be resolved on Saturday. Enjoy the game. And let us know if you hear from Marcylus Jones.

Then you haven't watched, because ECU's TE abused those linebackers in the passing game at times. You have to start somewhere, regardless of receptions. Hell, if I told you that Garrett Johnson would have the game that he had against Florida, you'd be saying the same thing, because to that point, he didn't do anything.}
You've been adamant that this team can't do it against certain teams. Last weak, you were saying the same kind of stuff against South Carolina (pretty sure you were complaining about our o-linemen that time), and here you are. Doing it again.
TE's will always be a key to the passing game, because it opens up an new offensive dimension. Hatcher will not have to "fight" for playing time. Ware doesn't play the same position as Hatcher, and Jabari Johnson is a run stopper, Hatcher is a pass rusher. 2 different types of linebackers.
Also, I'm not sure what this little comment about Marcelys Jones is about. Don't particularly care, but I don't know.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Yeah, under every category (rushing, passing, receiving, place kicking, etc.) they have game logs, and it goes back to 2008.

Hmm... still not quite what I am looking for though. The old UK website had the stats from each game. So, you could see the individual stats for each player for each game. Not just the entire offense, or receiving corp, per game. I guess the UK website just used to have the full box scores for games going back to like the early 2000s. So I could look and see exactly how well Jacob Tamme did against Louisville in 2007. With that website I can just see how well our passing game was.

Anyway, it is still a good tool and I appreciate you providing me with the link. Don't mean to seem like I am complaining about the link. Mostly mad at UK's website for getting rid of all that good information. lol

 

[StubbornPenny]

Trent Richardson has proven to be so damn blind in the NFL I don't know how he had the success he did in college. It's like he goes out of his way to avoid the holes.

because most of the time, the O-line for Alabama is 100% better than the D lines they faced. I can guarantee you he was hitting the wrong holes at practice and in games, it just didn't matter because every O-lineman was obliterating their defender, so there were large holes everywhere. There's no such thing in the NFL.

Of course Saban isn't going to tell everyone he's hitting the wrong holes.