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NIL Donor Fatigue?

I don't see how it is sustainable even for the richest alumni bases. We are talking 85 man rosters, 20-30 man signing classes every year, with no return on investments other than bragging rights. People who are wealthy enough to support this didn't get that way by giving freely without an expectation of some kind of return.

Reported ATM, spent millions signing the best class ever a couple years ago, results were a losing record and multiple transfers. UF made a huge offer they couldn't pay to a QB, didn't seem to hurt them as they are recruiting really well this year, with a new collective.
 
This is a foregone conclusion....people tossing out money is one thing but then having to do it year in and year out....is a whole nother matter. And the 2nd part is going to cause fatigue as people just pour money into a pit that never ends. And this is only compounded further when kids get up and transfer at a moments notice....so it feels like a further waste of hard earned money.

Let's be honest....there is hardly a consumer choice that people make due to the fact that a UK player markets for a private business. Bully McCall did a lawn equipment NIL, Wandale did the 150k NIL for Stockton Bank, Josh Paschal did a NIL with a dentist...heck the basketball team did one with Morgan & Morgan law firm below....(hell none of these dudes are at UK anymore...and what does a 4 kids cutting up on a poster make me want to do business with any law firm)

Are that many people being swayed as new customers due to the NIL $$$ marketing these athletes do to private businesses? I tend to doubt it and is extremely hard to quantify. DId Stockton mortgage get that many more home loans, did that many more tractors get sold, did the dentist pick up more business, etc...the proof is are these businesses with their added revenue did the re-up with the new athletes a year later?


kentucky-basketball-nil-deal-morgan-and-morgan-details.jpg
 
Big damn difference asking millionaires for $10M for new facilities where their names can be put on to last forever - and asking for $5M for a recruiting class who might (or might not) develop into good ballplayers. And needing another $5M next yr. And the year after. And, and, and....
 
This is something I talked about at the beginning. The market would correct itself. These investments are much too high risk and provide very little actual market value. As it stands, the only real value for a donor is additional program access which is something they get anyway if they donate enough to the school. Now throw in the cherry on top that the IRS considers them not tax deductible.

Comparatively, donations to the school are almost always tax deductible, you get the same additional access you would with nil, and you get much more market value.

Money wise it's a no brainer. The market was always going to correct. That's what we're seeing. That's why legislation really isn't needed at all. The problem is fixing itself.
 
If someone thought this NIL environment was going to last as is, they never passed an economics class. High cost, limited to no incremental benefits = a business model doomed to fail.

Either pay athletes like work/study students or carve out a piece of the TV deal money per each conference and spread it out among all the players.
 
People seeking more donations for anything don't first go after new donors but after previous donors. It's more productive effort. But it PO's me because I feel those seeking the added donations don't appreciate what I've already done; i.e., I'm being used.
 
If someone thought this NIL environment was going to last as is, they never passed an economics class. High cost, limited to no incremental benefits = a business model doomed to fail.

Either pay athletes like work/study students or carve out a piece of the TV deal money per each conference and spread it out among all the players.
You have the simple answer to the current problem, my friend.

NIL should be viewed as nothing more than recruiting inducement and should be regulated as such.

However, if a portion of the huge TV contracts were evenly divided among all schools and designated for player allowances based on position and performance, this would level the playing field for the schools and level the PAYING field for all the players, not just a handful of chosen potential stars.

The AD'S and University boards will never allow that to happen because they are the REAL greedy ba$****$ in this whole fiasco.

This problem could be easily remedied if the schools and the TV suits were willing to participate.
 
Current NIL structure will eventually kill a University like UK, Bama or any school who does not have rich Boosters with dynamic businesses. Universities with Boosters with deep pockets will become powerhouses. The X factor is will shareholders in publicly held Companies put up with the constant drain on EPS.
 
If someone thought this NIL environment was going to last as is, they never passed an economics class. High cost, limited to no incremental benefits = a business model doomed to fail.

Either pay athletes like work/study students or carve out a piece of the TV deal money per each conference and spread it out among all the players.
I agree here.....in the end the massive TV deals are going to have to be funneled to the players and the coaches salaries along with subsidizing rest of college program/activities (i.e. women's sports, academic buildings ,etc) will simply have to take a haircut.
 
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This is a foregone conclusion....people tossing out money is one thing but then having to do it year in and year out....is a whole nother matter. And the 2nd part is going to cause fatigue as people just pour money into a pit that never ends. And this is only compounded further when kids get up and transfer at a moments notice....so it feels like a further waste of hard earned money.

Let's be honest....there is hardly a consumer choice that people make due to the fact that a UK player markets for a private business. Bully McCall did a lawn equipment NIL, Wandale did the 150k NIL for Stockton Bank, Josh Paschal did a NIL with a dentist...heck the basketball team did one with Morgan & Morgan law firm below....(hell none of these dudes are at UK anymore...and what does a 4 kids cutting up on a poster make me want to do business with any law firm)

Are that many people being swayed as new customers due to the NIL $$$ marketing these athletes do to private businesses? I tend to doubt it and is extremely hard to quantify. DId Stockton mortgage get that many more home loans, did that many more tractors get sold, did the dentist pick up more business, etc...the proof is are these businesses with their added revenue did the re-up with the new athletes a year later?


kentucky-basketball-nil-deal-morgan-and-morgan-details.jpg

Talking to friends over a meal the last few years, none of us make decisions based on ads or sponsorships. I couldn't tell you the last product I bought for myself based on or prompted by an ad or sponsorship.

Considered getting ruff greens for my dogs last year based off of an ad I heard on the radio.

More often than not advertising tends to remind me NOT to buy from certain companies. I remember their poor service, shoddy production that doesn't resemble the marketing, their political leanings, or their hatred of certain people or religious groups.

I wish I could've switched to the dentist that did the Paschal ad. I was already doing business with UKFCU from way back when I took classes there but loved the Snell and Kash commercials. I just remembered that I considered and still WILL consider 46 Solutions after their sponsorship of Oscar.

Other than that, it is what it is and I think it may die down once everybody is flat busted
 
If someone thought this NIL environment was going to last as is, they never passed an economics class. High cost, limited to no incremental benefits = a business model doomed to fail.

Either pay athletes like work/study students or carve out a piece of the TV deal money per each conference and spread it out among all the players.

Just like any other 'system' or 'model' that sounds great up front, it will in the end have benefited a very small percentage the most, and the rest will have paid for it. It's a pyramid scheme/fraud not unlike the way that the lotteries, the stock market, politics and political ideologies, and unions are set up.
 
People seeking more donations for anything don't first go after new donors but after previous donors. It's more productive effort.

True. Once you give, your contact information goes on a list for the next cycle. It makes sense. Having said yes once, you have already indicated interest in and sympathy for the cause.

But it PO's me because I feel those seeking the added donations don't appreciate what I've already done; i.e., I'm being used.

As far as it goes, I get that. But why wouldn't they contact you again? They already know you have a certain amount of moral support for their goal, which requires repeat funding for every new business cycle. If they didn't contact you again, that would be incompetent on their part. My wife always reminds me that I have to learn to say no. So that is always an option.
 
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Big damn difference asking millionaires for $10M for new facilities where their names can be put on to last forever - and asking for $5M for a recruiting class who might (or might not) develop into good ballplayers. And needing another $5M next yr. And the year after. And, and, and....
Absolutely. At first, I thought I'd go in for $50 or $100 a month. Then I considered if I wanted to give $600-$1200 a year towards buying players who may or may not need it, who may or may not pan out and/or who may bolt after a season or two for a better offer. Then I thought that there are several worthy charities in my community that could use that money, or at the very least it could be contributed to our granddaughters college funds.
 
Absolutely. At first, I thought I'd go in for $50 or $100 a month. Then I considered if I wanted to give $600-$1200 a year towards buying players who may or may not need it, who may or may not pan out and/or who may bolt after a season or two for a better offer. Then I thought that there are several worthy charities in my community that could use that money, or at the very least it could be contributed to our granddaughters college funds.
Very true. But not mutually exclusive. Many of us are not wealthy but still give a little bit to 15 and other charities.

It boils down to this. NIL, as it stands now, is a flawed concept and Coach Stoops has explained why the current rule is unsustainable. I agree with him and you probably do too. But this is where we are now, because a federal court on the west coast ruled against the NCAA in civil litigation and forced the NCAA to adapt to a socioeconomic issue whose evolution is ongoing. It's a moving target. The word "amateur" has a simple dictionary definition. But the world around us is changing, and it can drive you nuts. We can choose to be part of the current solution, or we can abstain. Personally, I don't see how it hurts anything to part with a little bit of money that would otherwise have gone to a case of Bud Light (LOL), a couple of wagers at Keeneland, or an evening at Malone's. Most of us aren't destitute. Just give what you can afford. It doesn't have to be a lot. The experience is educational.
 
Big damn difference asking millionaires for $10M for new facilities where their names can be put on to last forever - and asking for $5M for a recruiting class who might (or might not) develop into good ballplayers. And needing another $5M next yr. And the year after. And, and, and....

UK Alumni magazine profiled 1981 grad Stanley Pigman, who just gave $34.5M to the college of engineering (now the Pigman College of Engineering). Those kind of guys may kick in a little bit every now and then for athletics, but no way he, Joe Craft, J. David Rosenberg, Cathy Jacobs, et al, are going to give millions annually to play players for absolutely nothing more than bragging rights and winning an extra game or two, they (most of them anyway) just don't use their money that way, which is a really great thing. About 10,000 more worthwhile things and causes to invest in.
 
UK Alumni magazine profiled 1981 grad Stanley Pigman, who just gave $34.5M to the college of engineering (now the Pigman College of Engineering). Those kind of guys may kick in a little bit every now and then for athletics, but no way he, Joe Craft, J. David Rosenberg, Cathy Jacobs, et al, are going to give millions annually to play players for absolutely nothing more than bragging rights and winning an extra game or two, they (most of them anyway) just don't use their money that way, which is a really great thing. About 10,000 more worthwhile things and causes to invest in.
Tommy, they aren't expecting gazillionaires to give gazillions for new campus facilities AND then again for 15. Obviously, this is entirely voluntary. The 15 club can be supported by normal middle class people sending $25-50 apiece to 15 by foregoing a case of beer or a night out. No big deal.
Nobody forces us to do it. It's done by those who choose to. All of us understand NIL is flawed, and Coach Stoops has already said it is unsustainable. But this is where we are now because the NCAA lost a couple of civil litigations, as you know. Fans of all schools are basically in the same position, so we should not even think of playing the victim card. $25 is a pizza.
 
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Donor Fatigue.. it is just mind blowing seeing all the stuff being done to the college stadiums for fan experience, BIG MONEY..

Regarding the current NIL, no way it stays sustainable, its just like throwing or giving money away in my opinion

 
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Tommy, they aren't expecting gazillionaires to give gazillions for new campus facilities AND then again for 15. Obviously, this is entirely voluntary. The 15 club can be supported by normal middle class people sending $25-50 apiece to 15 by foregoing a case of beer or a night out. No big deal.
Nobody forces us to do it. It's done by those who choose to. All of us understand NIL is flawed, and Coach Stoops has already said it is unsustainable. But this is where we are now because the NCAA lost a couple of civil litigations, as you know. Fans of all schools are basically in the same position, so we should not even think of playing the victim card. $25 is a pizza

Tommy, they aren't expecting gazillionaires to give gazillions for new campus facilities AND then again for 15. Obviously, this is entirely voluntary. The 15 club can be supported by normal middle class people sending $25-50 apiece to 15 by foregoing a case of beer or a night out. No big deal.
Nobody forces us to do it. It's done by those who choose to. All of us understand NIL is flawed, and Coach Stoops has already said it is unsustainable. But this is where we are now because the NCAA lost a couple of civil litigations, as you know. Fans of all schools are basically in the same position, so we should not even think of playing the victim card. $25 is a pizza.
OK but that is not going to amount to a whole lot in the long run. Most of us give way more than that every year to the K fund anyway. If you're really going to put together pay for play, need really big money. I could easily afford additional money, but I'm just not going to, for many of the reasons stated in this thread.
 
OK but that is not going to amount to a whole lot in the long run. Most of us give way more than that every year to the K fund anyway. If you're really going to put together pay for play, need really big money. I could easily afford additional money, but I'm just not going to, for many of the reasons stated in this thread.
The same method, many small donations, works in other models. It will work in this model, too, if lots of people participate. It's a level playing field, in that every school faces the same rules. Parting with $25-50 is really no big deal. It's a case of beer. Or it's a pizza. Come on. You are "just not going to". Okay. That's your decision. But I did, and many motivated KY fans will. So sit it out, Tommy, and let others get it done.
 
I know I have a bad attitude and all but can someone point out another business model anywhere in the world like the collective? One where they are charging you for their product (tickets, the right to buy tickets, parking, concessions, merchandising and any other penny they can squeeze you for), take that money and spend it on things other than that product and then beg those same exact people to meet your payroll because they already blew all of the money you already gave them?

You all empty your retirement funds for that crap if you want. My interest in college sports is very quickly approaching zero. It's the thing I always thought may drive me away from sports. I got sick of the people saying "it's just a game" or "I have to understand it's a business" depending on what was convenient for them at any particular second a long time ago with professional sports. It's that on steroids now in college.
 
I know I have a bad attitude and all but can someone point out another business model anywhere in the world like the collective? One where they are charging you for their product (tickets, the right to buy tickets, parking, concessions, merchandising and any other penny they can squeeze you for), take that money and spend it on things other than that product and then beg those same exact people to meet your payroll because they already blew all of the money you already gave them?

You all empty your retirement funds for that crap if you want. My interest in college sports is very quickly approaching zero. It's the thing I always thought may drive me away from sports. I got sick of the people saying "it's just a game" or "I have to understand it's a business" depending on what was convenient for them at any particular second a long time ago with professional sports. It's that on steroids now in college.
If $25 empties someone's retirement fund, then they are in big trouble with or without a donation to 15. So there's that.

Mark Stoops has said that NIL is not sustainable, and I agree. I am old enough to believe that the "amateur" in amateur sports is important to ultimate survival of college athletics. A free college education means something and has always been considered ample reimbursement for playing a game for 4 years. No more.
The country is changing. College sports will get through this because of TV revenue. But the impact is horrible. Civil court rulings have forced the NCAA into NIL. If you think about it, the effect of these court rulings is forcing a socioeconomic process similar to John Calipari's beliefs. In essence, they are engaged in social engineering to make poor families wealthy through participation in college athletics. People used to believe that a college education is the path to prosperity in our country. If someone wants to say the universities themselves have screwed this up, I won't argue with that. But the direct agent of change has been the courts. If playing basketball for a couple of years as a method to advance quickly to pro ball is the preferred pathway to prosperity now, then what is going to happen when the pro players associations cave and agree to allow hs athletes back into the professional drafts without a year of colleges as a requirement? That is what already happens in pro baseball, and its impact on college baseball is detrimental financially and qualitatively. It would be another big step in reducing college sports purely to a pro minor league system.

So if you are looking for someone to defend NIL, I am not that person. My own life has been shaped by my college education. I was a pretty good basketball, football, and baseball player but not good enough to make a living and support my family that way. My path to financial solvency has gone through education and full time work. I have had to perform academically and in the real world of productivity. I believe in that value system. OTOH I believe that the redistributionist value system is a step in a path toward another kind of world that has ultimately changed other countries in a way that hurt most people even if sports continue to be played in some form. They still play baseball in Cuba and basketball in China. Not to wax political, because I find politics more and more agitating.

So I am not the person to say you have a bad attitude. I understand where it comes from. But I still don't think giving the monetary value of one pizza or one case of beer to 15 will hurt anyone here. The fact remains that 15 is essential for major UK sports right now, and some of us are supporting 15 while others are sitting it out.
 
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It seems logical that NIL deals would wane, but people buy tix and pay the “donations” for the tix each year. I would think many fans would make their annual offering to collectives, as well. That said, I have released my tix after being in the stands for years and have not donated to a collective. I believe NIL should be what it says. Make a name for yourself and do the right things and businesses will want to hire you to market their products. Players who provide content on social media should also reap the benefit of the marketing that goes with that.

Market sharing is a tricky subject. Will football players reap the benefit of huge TV and stadium revenues and the other sports nada? Or, will football pay for the salaries of all athletes?
 
NIL and players earning money was always going to run into the fact that education institutions aren't fortune 500 companies, or pro franchises owned by multibillionaires.

The one fundamental flaw in the whole issue is the expectation that athletic departments can afford to pay all the student athletes. That middle class America fans in addition to all the do for athletics programs in terms of what they spend would be willing and able to pay even more.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Jerry Jones pays 53 athletes...Mark Cuban pays 15.

Neither one pays baseball, volleyball, swimming, tennis, golf, track and field, etc. athletes...x2 (men and women).

Why should Joe Craft? Why should Joe fan?

The NIL fight is targeting the wrong people/institutions for money. It's going to have to refocus attention from athletic departments and refocus on big media.

When big national media deals, and smaller local media deals are hashed out players should be represented so they can talk about their cut.

If I were a player, I wouldn't be asking Mitch Barnhardt for a cut of UK's budget I'd be pounding the table when talking with Disney executives about how much of Mickey Mouse's cheese I can get. I'd be wanting to talk to Pfizer about how much money they're making from psoriasis pills on game day commercials.
 
I know I have a bad attitude and all but can someone point out another business model anywhere in the world like the collective? One where they are charging you for their product (tickets, the right to buy tickets, parking, concessions, merchandising and any other penny they can squeeze you for), take that money and spend it on things other than that product and then beg those same exact people to meet your payroll because they already blew all of the money you already gave them?

You all empty your retirement funds for that crap if you want. My interest in college sports is very quickly approaching zero. It's the thing I always thought may drive me away from sports. I got sick of the people saying "it's just a game" or "I have to understand it's a business" depending on what was convenient for them at any particular second a long time ago with professional sports. It's that on steroids now in college.
Good points there. The model for the successful colleges has been to let football, and for a few men’s basketball, pay for the athletic departments, subsidized by donors, usually for capital projects, and to pay the universities generally. The universities don’t want to give up anything they have had, so they ask the fans to do more. If it was true NIL, it would take care of itself. But, the coaches and the fans want it to be recruiting payments. That is a whole different animal.

On UK’s team, who should get NIL? Probably those players the average fan and some non-fans would recognize, at least by name. Not many.
 
The first P5 conference to say they will only have men’s basketball and football, plus the required Title IX women’s participation to be legal, will be able to pay more and dominate.
 
The first P5 conference to say they will only have men’s basketball and football, plus the required Title IX women’s participation to be legal, will be able to pay more and dominate.
But the SEC's huge conference TV contract is the difference maker right now and probably for the foreseeable future. SEC TV revenue is staggering and far greater than what other conferences are taking in. This doesn't help with NIL but it is making the SEC so rich that no other conference can catch up. When Univ. of TX capitulated, that told me a lot.
 
But the SEC's huge conference TV contract is the difference maker right now and probably for the foreseeable future. SEC TV revenue is staggering and far greater than what other conferences are taking in. This doesn't help with NIL but it is making the SEC so rich that no other conference can catch up. When Univ. of TX capitulated, that told me a lot.
It helps with NIL from a marketing aspect. A kid that is on the largest stage probably gets the most marketing bucks.
 
It seems logical that NIL deals would wane, but people buy tix and pay the “donations” for the tix each year. I would think many fans would make their annual offering to collectives, as well. That said, I have released my tix after being in the stands for years and have not donated to a collective. I believe NIL should be what it says. Make a name for yourself and do the right things and businesses will want to hire you to market their products. Players who provide content on social media should also reap the benefit of the marketing that goes with that.

Market sharing is a tricky subject. Will football players reap the benefit of huge TV and stadium revenues and the other sports nada? Or, will football pay for the salaries of all athletes?
Well said!

Paying 25 a month for endless time is sort of goofy concept to me….but if other people are paying…totally fine

But the concept of NIL is a player making revenue off his ability to make revenue for a business…like Levis for card companies, Oscar for his image, etc. the concept of hey give me some extra 10k in cash to play for Ky is not apt to be sustainable imo
 
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Yeah, for UK NIL to be successful and sustainable it doesn't need Billy Joe Wildcat to empty his 401K....it needs 2,000 Billy Joe's donating $25, $50, $100 a year every yr. A constant dependable stream.
 
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Very true. But not mutually exclusive. Many of us are not wealthy but still give a little bit to 15 and other charities.

It boils down to this. NIL, as it stands now, is a flawed concept and Coach Stoops has explained why the current rule is unsustainable. I agree with him and you probably do too. But this is where we are now, because a federal court on the west coast ruled against the NCAA in civil litigation and forced the NCAA to adapt to a socioeconomic issue whose evolution is ongoing. It's a moving target. The word "amateur" has a simple dictionary definition. But the world around us is changing, and it can drive you nuts. We can choose to be part of the current solution, or we can abstain. Personally, I don't see how it hurts anything to part with a little bit of money that would otherwise have gone to a case of Bud Light (LOL), a couple of wagers at Keeneland, or an evening at Malone's. Most of us aren't destitute. Just give what you can afford. It doesn't have to be a lot. The experience is educational.
Sure, but I am already giving some to charities.
Very true. But not mutually exclusive. Many of us are not wealthy but still give a little bit to 15 and other charities.

It boils down to this. NIL, as it stands now, is a flawed concept and Coach Stoops has explained why the current rule is unsustainable. I agree with him and you probably do too. But this is where we are now, because a federal court on the west coast ruled against the NCAA in civil litigation and forced the NCAA to adapt to a socioeconomic issue whose evolution is ongoing. It's a moving target. The word "amateur" has a simple dictionary definition. But the world around us is changing, and it can drive you nuts. We can choose to be part of the current solution, or we can abstain. Personally, I don't see how it hurts anything to part with a little bit of money that would otherwise have gone to a case of Bud Light (LOL), a couple of wagers at Keeneland, or an evening at Malone's. Most of us aren't destitute. Just give what you can afford. It doesn't have to be a lot. The experience is educational.
What I'm saying is that I already donate to local charities, as well as the college funds of our granddaughters. If I'm going to come up with an extra $600-$1200 a year, it's going to the places/people I'm already giving to. After thinking it over, I'd rather put my money elsewhere, especially after seeing players openly shop themselves around looking for the best deal, and the attitude some had about it, like in the Polynesian Bowl where some kid who picked off UT's million dollar man was interviewed on the sideline after the change of possession and managed to rattle off the phrase "gettin' paid" about 75 times in a 60 second interview, as if that was all that mattered to him.
 
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i talked with a recruiting analyst yesterday...He said UT and UT and Tam are the worst... they are just throwing crazy money guarantees at 5 stars... not even evaluating just wanting high stars.
UT offered 2.5 to an edge. Whom I and this "scout" have seen many times and it's all on potential...2.5 million on potential...smh
 
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As far as it goes, I get that. But why wouldn't they contact you again? They already know you have a certain amount of moral support for their goal, which requires repeat funding for every new business cycle. If they didn't contact you again, that would be incompetent on their part. My wife always reminds me that I have to learn to say no. So that is always an option.
They aren't contacting me again but for the first time because I volunteer first donations without contact. I might volunteer again but it's my decision for which I don't need help. I don't respond favorably to pressure. Net, with me the risk against further aid is much higher with contacting me than leaving me alone to make decisions. I don't call refraining from contacting me incompetence but respect. Note that by "contact" I mean verbal, not mailings.
 
Donor Fatigue.. it is just mind blowing seeing all the stuff being done to the college stadiums for fan experience, BIG MONEY..

Regarding the current NIL, no way it stays sustainable, its just like throwing or giving money away in my opinion

And we struggled mightily over just simply allowing the selling of beer to most fans. :(
 
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FWIW, I look at which is the best choice for my next charitable gift. Sport teams never come close to reaching that choice level. Education does.
 
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