Newman V. Murray

[Wall2Boogie]

As we sit with our fingers crossed hoping Murray reclassifies. Two weeks ago everyone wanted Newman more than any player in the class. Murray has become the new Newman. Putting the performance he had in Portland aside, which is better and if you had to chose one or the other who would you chose and why? Besides mix tapes has anyone seen either one of these guys in person play?

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I would rather have Murray. He looked extremely poised and smooth in that AS game where he got 30. Looking at other clips, and he has nice form on his shot, has nice hops, and doesn't mind passing. Admittedly I don't know any more about Newman, but he comes across as more of a looser player, who would be more prone to turnovers, and possibly less amenable to adjusting to what Cal wants to do. Again, that's just an impression.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I don't think you can get a real, honest, unbiased, informed answer. Most of the board has only seen Murray once, and Newman maybe three times, and with it being obvious Newman won't be here, Murray will be the clear answer either way.

I've only seen Murray at the Hoop Summit and then in what I've been able to find online since then. I've seen Newman much more, but have always questioned why such a "can't miss" prospect was ranked so low in a weak class. With what we're discovering about his mindset, it seems like the knocks on him are becoming accurate, but we could absolutely use a scorer like him.

Murray is bigger and longer, so he's probably a better fit as our third guard, and he appears to be a better playmaker. Newman is better than anyone in the class when he's unconscious, but Murray seems steadier.

I think it ultimately comes down to what kind of competitor they are. Newman appears content to go get his while losing. If that's his mindset, I think you'd rather have another option if similarly talented.

The real answer? I'd be happy with either. I'm excited about possibly adding Murray.

 

[mj2k10]

As we sit with our fingers crossed hoping Murray reclassifies. Two weeks ago everyone wanted Newman more than any player in the class. Murray has become the new Newman. Putting the performance he had in Portland aside, which is better and if you had to chose one or the other who would you chose and why? Besides mix tapes has anyone seen either one of these guys in person play?

Why would you put the performance Murray had in Portland aside? The Hoop Summit has been the breakout game for a lot of players- Dirk Nowitizki, Tony Parker, Enes Kanter, Andrew Wiggins to a certain extent (when he played in it as a 17 year old). Yeah, you exercise some caution judging off one game, but it's not like Murray just hit shots (which can be a come-and-go thing). Murray handled the ball, made passes, made some plays on D, scored on drives to the hoop, and hit shots. It was a pretty full arsenal.

There are a lot of people who've seen both Newman and Murray play (I'm not one of them), because both their teams played in Kentucky this past season, including a game against each other. Newman has star potential, maybe (maybe) more than Murray, but if Newman isn't an option, then Murray is the best possible way to replace him.

It's not like people are just saying "stop recruiting Newman (after 2+ years) and get Murray". It doesn't look like Newman is coming. If that's the reality, then move on to Murray.

 

[Cawood86]

Newman is very talented. Can't really go by these all star games. Murray was virtually uknown until two weeks ago by most everyone, but he sure showed a variety of skills.
Hard to pick but I would say Murray because of his ability to play multiple positions

 

[Jkwo]

Murray, because someone who can fit in smoothly at the D1 3 spot is the one thing we don't even have a little bit of.

 

[CPaliafito]

Sorry to be a bit off-topic, but is there any deadline in terms of reclassifying for Murray? I'm not familiar with how that works.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

I do not think you can go wrong with either one. One is going to be relevant next year while the other isn't...so I want a guy that is a winner and wants to win games, not worried about getting his. That said, that other guy will put big points, but be pretty irrelevant as he leaves after one year. NIT at best, the other? Well, if UK stays healthy we know Cal's track record.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

I'm as unbiased as one can be, have seen both play in person several times as well as on tv.
Murray has cleaned up his handle much more so in the last year than has Newman, Murray is a better passer, taller and just as explosive as a scorer. He is a team player when their coach has em on the floor. When they needed buckets Murray was as good as any player I've seen in the last few years in scoring at will. Watched him score 16 straight in one game and 14 I think it was at the hoopfest event. Told everyone on this board even back then he was the !2nd most impressive player their.....behind Newman.
Newman is more athletic but not much more so, has a better midrange game has distance on his 3 but not as good as Murray but close, a good passer but not great, has decent handles but not great. Can fill it up in a hurry when he is on his game. A year or so ago he got into a funk with his shooting and struggled for a good while and he seemed to find his shot again and he looked totally different. You could tell he was a talented player when he wasn't even hitting. He looked like he did in the all star games more or less. Good enough to kinda notice him but not enough to keep looking for him on the court.

Murray's handles have gotten much better in the last year as his passing. Both guys are pretty close now in my opinion but if Newman is on he is damn good and unstoppable. He just gets on these streaks of games where he is amazing and then 4-5 pedestrian but still good enough to warrant him being on the floor. Can't go wrong with either in my opinion.

With which one you want on your team to me depends on your team. If I was wanting a run at the title and had to pick one to run the pg position I'd pick Murray. If I had a top notch pg and a skilled 3 and wanted a gunner and slasher I'd pick Newman.
I think Murray would be an excellent 2 in our system as the 2 will be handling the ball as much as the pg with him driving and slashing as well to the hole.

As far as D goes Newman was much better and put more effort into containing his man. Murray is decent as well when he wanted to get a stop but he will be forced to play D in college. Newman is not real big maybe 6'2-6'3 but plays big due to his athleticism. Seen him get back on D and throw some weak layup attempts out of bounds and pinned one on the backboard.
For his HS team Newman and another kid who is good enough for a school like Southern Miss was the only thing they had for em and Newman was looked upon to score and he would routinely go for over 40+ many times.
Murray is very capable of doing so but deferred a good deal because he has several guys on his team who are high Div 1 guys. Heck they prob had 6-7 guys who will end up playing Div 1 ball somewhere. When Murray was needed to score everybody on his team looked to him, Thon Maker who is highly regarded would immediately look to him to give the ball too. Murray has had several games where he would score 25-35 points for em. That's very impressive for the amount of talent on that team.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

Why would you put the performance Murray had in Portland aside? The Hoop Summit has been the breakout game for a lot of players- Dirk Nowitizki, Tony Parker, Enes Kanter, Andrew Wiggins to a certain extent (when he played in it as a 17 year old). Yeah, you exercise some caution judging off one game, but it's not like Murray just hit shots (which can be a come-and-go thing). Murray handled the ball, made passes, made some plays on D, scored on drives to the hoop, and hit shots. It was a pretty full arsenal.

There are a lot of people who've seen both Newman and Murray play (I'm not one of them), because both their teams played in Kentucky this past season, including a game against each other. Newman has star potential, maybe (maybe) more than Murray, but if Newman isn't an option, then Murray is the best possible way to replace him.

It's not like people are just saying "stop recruiting Newman (after 2+ years) and get Murray". It doesn't look like Newman is coming. If that's the reality, then move on to Murray.

I put Murrays performance aside based on having one game where he shined. Until then, nobody on here can say with all honesty they wanted Murray or even knew who the hell he was. Newman on the other hand has been followed in since his sophomore year in high school.

 

[mj2k10]

I put Murrays performance aside based on having one game where he shined. Until then, nobody on here can say with all honesty they wanted Murray or even knew who the hell he was. Newman on the other hand has been followed in since his sophomore year in high school.

Nobody in the NBA could honestly say they wanted Murray before the Hoop Summit game. Now they do.

Are we supposed to ignore that, too? It's not like UK fans are putting hope into some random, afterthought guy. There's every reason to believe that Murray has made a big leap. Jerry Meyer sent some tweet today talking about putting Murray in the 15 class rankings, possibly ahead of every other guard in the class.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Nobody in the NBA could honestly say they wanted Murray before the Hoop Summit game. Now they do.

Are we supposed to ignore that, too? It's not like UK fans are putting hope into some random, afterthought guy. There's every reason to believe that Murray has made a big leap. Jerry Meyer sent some tweet today talking about putting Murray in the 15 class rankings, possibly ahead of every other guard in the class.

I read that he said Top 10 in either class.

 

[stoneycat_20]

If you watched Newman at the MCHF you would same he's better..Murray Ive seen in the HS this year and last so that could be a fluke game for him...He looks to be very good and id be happy with either

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I'd count my blessings and eat all my vegetables from here on out if we landed either. No complaints from me.

 

[ORCAT]

I don't think you can get a real, honest, unbiased, informed answer. Most of the board has only seen Murray once, and Newman maybe three times, and with it being obvious Newman won't be here, Murray will be the clear answer either way.

I've only seen Murray at the Hoop Summit and then in what I've been able to find online since then. I've seen Newman much more, but have always questioned why such a "can't miss" prospect was ranked so low in a weak class. With what we're discovering about his mindset, it seems like the knocks on him are becoming accurate, but we could absolutely use a scorer like him.

Murray is bigger and longer, so he's probably a better fit as our third guard, and he appears to be a better playmaker. Newman is better than anyone in the class when he's unconscious, but Murray seems steadier.

I think it ultimately comes down to what kind of competitor they are. Newman appears content to go get his while losing. If that's his mindset, I think you'd rather have another option if similarly talented.

The real answer? I'd be happy with either. I'm excited about possibly adding Murray.

I think this is a very accurate answer and pretty much fits how I feel at this point. I've not seen enough of either to give you a valid answer, OP, but can say I would be very happy if we could get either one of the two. Therefore, I'm also very excited if Murray ends up reclassifying and chooses to come to UK. If we added Murray along with Mulduhr (sp?), and Diallo then we would really be in business and all of us could start getting pretty excited about looking forward to the upcoming season. I guess we should be seeing the puzzle fit together sometime next week as that's when Diallo is reported to be making his decision and Newman makes his tomorrow (I'm just not very confident in him choosing UK now). Mulduhr may end up a Cat this weekend if we believe some of the reports we are hearing. Get those 3 and lets get ready to play!!! I also would appreciate an answer to another posters question about Murray reclassifying and if there are any time limits, etc. and I, too, am not very educated about that process. Thanks.

 

[ThroughBlue]

Ill admit I didnt watch the all star game where he had 30 and I have only seen a game and some mix tapes from newman. I say if Murray is getting all of this hype and Jerry Meyer says he could jump Newman and Trier he must be impressing the right people and not just the pros we have here evaluating talent.

 

[GLR5555]

Not too high on MSU recruits.....Murray by a landslide.

 

[rabidcatfan]

Murray isn't someone who's going to come in and try to take over a game with his scoring (as opposed to Newman who will want to be the focal point of the offense on every possession). Both are similar in terms of shooting ability, but I think Newman's a little better at creating his own shot, but Murray's better handling the ball and is bigger (6-5 vs. 6-3) and can realistically play the 3 as opposed to Newman who really can't. I'd honestly say that they're a pretty even swap for each other in the long run with Murray being the slightly better prospect because he plays with such poise and doesn't take many bad shots as opposed to Newman who will either win the game for you or shoot you out of it.

 

[62bigcat]

Happy with either

 

[wcc31]

- Based only upon the Hoops Summit, Murray was not only much more impressive than Newman, he was the most impressive player there. It's not like he came out of nowhere, hype had been building for him. But in that game- WOW. Thing is, he's not really flashy. Just very efficient. Good shooter. Good passer. Good playmaker. Looks like he could play the point or the wing.

- I wanted Newman badly but a few of my Wildcat friends were turned off by his game. Said he looked more like a "great scorer on a bad team" type of guy rather than the type of kid who would fit in well with Calipari's philosophy. I could see that, but I always trust Cal's ability to get guys to buy in and think Newman would've looked great along side Ulis and Briscoe.

- I would have loved to have had either, but have felt since the Summit that Murray is the best guard in high school basketball.

 

[Ron Mehico]

So how would Murray fit into our team exactly anyway? Is he going to the 2? Is it going to be a combination of Ullis, Briscoe, and Murray playing either PG or SG the whole time? Is it going to be Briscoe, Ullis, and Murray playing the 1,2, and 3 and then Poythress Playing 4 with Lee playing the 4 and 5 the whole time? If murray is bigger than Newman and can do more things than just score then it seems to me that Murray would be a better fit as we don't really have a SF next year. Seems like Murray might fit in better than Newman with a 3 guard lineup.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

Dont Murray play on Thon Makers Orangeville prep team?

 

[Ben101er]

I really liked Newman, but with him going to MSU, I am not sure how he might have fit in here. I look at him as I did Mudiay, really talented, but maybe wants to be 'the guy". Murray looks really good, but I am not sure if he can decide to reclassify this late in the school year, unless he already has almost enough credits to graduate, and only needs summer classes to finish up. His parents may have foreseen this and got his academics in order to where he can graduate early. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[wcc31]

So how would Murray fit into our team exactly anyway? Is he going to the 2? Is it going to be a combination of Ullis, Briscoe, and Murray playing either PG or SG the whole time? Is it going to be Briscoe, Ullis, and Murray playing the 1,2, and 3 and then Poythress Playing 4 with Lee playing the 4 and 5 the whole time? If murray is bigger than Newman and can do more things than just score then it seems to me that Murray would be a better fit as we don't really have a SF next year. Seems like Murray might fit in better than Newman with a 3 guard lineup.

I think we got 3-guard offense with all three playing off each other, each running the point when need be, driving and kicking, similar to Illinois 2005. Obviously, Briscoe and Murray guard the wings. I think Poythress is the finisher. I think Labissiere does a lot of pick and pop with all three guards.

 

[EliteBlue]

Murray for what we need and the college game. Newman if you want major NBA potential and a star at the next level.

Id prefer to have the better college fit for our team.

 

[Untouchables22]

I think the problem is that far too many people are slaves to rankings when it comes to recruiting. Everyone has seen Newman at the top of the rankings for the last three years and Murray is a johnny come lately proposition. I don't think people understand how fluid recruiting rankings are. I'm sure most on this board remember how Eric Bledsoe didn't play AAU ball his junior year of high school and therefore was a relative unknown until all-star games when playing against elite competition he showed his mettle and left no doubt he was a 5 star prospect. When talking about basketball players this young it's hard to accurately assess their ability and largely it is done by seeing how players of similar ability play against each other. The simple answer is that Murray and Newman are both elite prospects similar in ability at this point. The both have their strengths and weaknesses and the real question is looking at our personnel next year who fits with the other players the best? As others have noted we need a SF and Murray is 6'5. Newman is the better overall offensive player but Murray is the better 3 point shooter. Assuming that Ulis and Briscoe are ball dominant next season and both will do a lot of penetrating then we do need additional perimeter shooters to go with Mulder assuming Poythress doesn't regain his freshmen year shooting stroke. I have to agree that at this point looking at the players we have for next year Murray appears to be the better fit with his height and his perimeter shooting ability.

 

[doneitall]

As we sit with our fingers crossed hoping Murray reclassifies. Two weeks ago everyone wanted Newman more than any player in the class. Murray has become the new Newman. Putting the performance he had in Portland aside, which is better and if you had to chose one or the other who would you chose and why? Besides mix tapes has anyone seen either one of these guys in person play?

I haven't seen Murray play at all but I have seen Newman play and he is a heck of a player. He can elevate as high as he has too to get his shot even out past 3pt line. He has total package as far as talent and he can play pt guard as well. Don't know about attitude but the two games I saw him play in person he did not show a bad attitude. He can get to basket anytime he wants too against top talent.

 

[Lumpy 2]

IMO Murray would be a better fit for us next season. Newman seems like a player who needs the ball in his hands a majority of the time while Murray looks more comfortable playing off the ball. Both look like really good players and future pros, but with Ulis and Briscoe we don't need another point guard.

 

[MSU129]

IMO Murray would be a better fit for us next season. Newman seems like a player who needs the ball in his hands a majority of the time while Murray looks more comfortable playing off the ball. Both look like really good players and future pros, but with Ulis and Briscoe we don't need another point guard.

I know people won't believe me because we didn't get one of the kids and not looking good on Newman, but I wasn't impressed with Zimm and Newman in the 2 all-star games I watched. I really wanted Diello after McDAA and after seeing Murray in the Jordan I wanted him, so I would be excited if we land those 2. I also wanted Ingram after seeing him in McDAA and still do, but I think he is a Dukie. Brown I have wanted all along even though he didn't excite me in the 2 all-star games, but he also didn't take stupid shots like Newman does and we have more of a need for a good small forward.

 

[ZaytovenCat]

Rather have Newman. Better athlete, scorer, and IMHO shooter. The Murray yall saw at the Summit is not the one we would see all season. He was abnormally hot that game.

Saw them go one on one in their game at the MCHF. Newman was the better player. Murray was very impressive as well but not like Newman. I left the gym speechless with how good Malik was. Just imagine a performance like Murray at the Summit except even a little better.

There's no other player in the country I want more than Newman. He's a better version of Brandon Knight.

 

[mustnotsleepnow]

Rather have Newman. Better athlete, scorer, and IMHO shooter. The Murray yall saw at the Summit is not the one we would see all season. He was abnormally hot that game.

Saw them go one on one in their game at the MCHF. Newman was the better player. Murray was very impressive as well but not like Newman. I left the gym speechless with how good Malik was. Just imagine a performance like Murray at the Summit except even a little better.

There's no other player in the country I want more than Newman. He's a better version of Brandon Knight.

Zay's Newman obsession is much like Snarks' Lebron obsession...it's kind of creepy.

We get that Newman is talented, but Murray is, by all accounts, considered a great player. Top 10 in this class if he moves up, supposedly.

 

[Cats192]

IMO Murray would be a better fit for us next season. Newman seems like a player who needs the ball in his hands a majority of the time while Murray looks more comfortable playing off the ball. Both look like really good players and future pros, but with Ulis and Briscoe we don't need another point guard.

But how many of our guys in year's past needed the ball? Either Cal develops players, and he can teach Newman to play without the ball, or Cal doesn't develop players.

 

[MSU129]

But how many of our guys in year's past needed the ball? Either Cal develops players, and he can teach Newman to play without the ball, or Cal doesn't develop players.

You remember the quote during Archie's season, "You're uncoachable." I could see that with Newman.

 

[jrpross]

You remember the quote during Archie's season, "You're uncoachable." I could see that with Newman.

I've never met the kid but that's my biggest worry from seeing his game. He kinda seems like a more talented Goodwin.

 

[Cats192]

You remember the quote during Archie's season, "You're uncoachable." I could see that with Newman.

Based on? Him not coming here?

 

[MSU129]

Based on? Him not coming here?

No based on what you said:

But how many of our guys in year's past needed the ball? Either Cal develops players, and he can teach Newman to play without the ball, or Cal doesn't develop players.

Cal had a short bench the year we had Archie and was forced to play him or lose even more games. I guess the good thing this year is if Newman did come here and was uncoachable then you could bench him and play Hawkins, but I'm not sure how good that would be when you could have a possible top 10 player who passes and scores in Murray. Plus Newman wants to run point according to everything you read, and we have 2 good PG's now..so he sounds uncoachable if he isn't willing to play 2.

 

[Cats192]

No based on what you said:

But how many of our guys in year's past needed the ball? Either Cal develops players, and he can teach Newman to play without the ball, or Cal doesn't develop players.

Cal had a short bench the year we had Archie and was forced to play him or lose even more games. I guess the good thing this year is if Newman did come here and was uncoachable then you could bench him and play Hawkins, but I'm not sure how good that would be when you could have a possible top 10 player who passes and scores in Murray. Plus Newman wants to run point according to everything you read, and we have 2 good PG's now..so he sounds uncoachable if he isn't willing to play 2.

I don't think he's EVER said "I won't play the 2."

Wanting to play a position isn't the same as saying you won't play another. Everytime a kid doesn't come here, people look for reasons to feel good about them not coming here.
I know, I know--but he went to MSU! That doesn't mean that he went there so he could be the PG. I would venture to guess that Howland is sitting over there saying "You see how Westbrook is playing? All those triple doubles? Yeah, I coached him, taught him everything he knows."

But, you can't just say "Oh, you went to NOT KENTUCKY? You're selfish." Everything in life has some degree of self serving. If kids are coming to KY because Cal is putting all these players in the NBA--that's for them. They aren't sacrificing because they're good kind hearted people. They're buying into "This is what's best for me." It's still about them.

 

[thebluestripes]

As screwed up as things are, I just hope the heck we can even get murray. He sounds like the best guard that we can even get this year. However we've missed out on so many of these guys that I'm hesitant to think we'll even get him if he reclassifies.
Bottomline, if cal thinks he's good nough, then I do too

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Rather have Newman. Better athlete, scorer, and IMHO shooter. The Murray yall saw at the Summit is not the one we would see all season. He was abnormally hot that game.

Saw them go one on one in their game at the MCHF. Newman was the better player. Murray was very impressive as well but not like Newman. I left the gym speechless with how good Malik was. Just imagine a performance like Murray at the Summit except even a little better.

There's no other player in the country I want more than Newman. He's a better version of Brandon Knight.

Hmmm you say that he was abnormally hot in the Nike game but then say you saw him play at the hoopfest event where he had over 30 in that game as well. I was their and watched him and he was very impressive. You don't score over 30 in one game and call it a fluke and talk about another game where he looks the exact same and just brush it off.
How come you just didn't say Newmans performance straw hoopfest was the abnormally? He had 45 but yet did jack squat in the last few entertainment games he has played in.

 

[CUJO_1970]

Would rather have Murray without wasting even one second thinking about it.

Forget the scoring. Murray's movement away from the ball demonstrated he is a pure baller.